24th Nov Strikes... What a joke

siochan84

irish_bob wrote: »

fegus finlay is an idiot of the highest order , this is the same do-gooder who made the outrageous claim a few weeks back that if the xmas bonus was not reinstated that people on social wellfare would go hungary this christmas , hes your quientesential left wing poser

as for your assertion that nurses benefited nothing from the celtic tiger , complete horse**** as theese figures reveal , nurses in ireland are incredibly well paid in ireland ( 50 k per year on average ) and your collegues who left for australia will be taking a 40% pay cut should they continue thier proffesion in OZ , as for how tough a job being a nurse is , the challenges are no bigger than in any other european country , the only difference is irish nurses earn at least 30% more , i have a cousin in wales who became a nurse in 1986 , this year he will earn 33 thousand sterling and is several steps up the NHS system , thats not a whole lot more than a nurse starts off on in this country , if its such a struggle , why not quit your job , thier are many who would gladly replace you

Everything you have just said is utter rubbish. No nurse I know earns 50k a year, are you mad?? Unless they are near retirement! And there actually wouldn't be anybody that would replace me because big suprise! They are not hiring anymore!! As for my friends in Australia they say the quality of life there for nurses is alot better because they actually do what nurses are supposed to do!! I'm just reporting back what they say! Unlike in Ireland were nursing seems to be still stuck in the stone age, they still make nurses do non-nursing duties here but also give them the medical tasks and responsibility. Double work. In Australia they don't, they just do what they are trained to do! Your obviously not a nurse working in Ireland today, if you were you would be livid about this paycut. Tell me WHY should I take a pay cut if I'm already doing the work of three people when it's short staffed? In an office job things are just slowed down, in a hospital lives are at danger when it's short staffed. Big difference! :mad:

murphaph

alejandro1977 wrote: »

P.S. One of them is29 years old but very obese, - BMI of 30+ and was way overweight when joining; I remember someone asked him if the physical/athletic test was difficult - he pointed to he belly and laughed!

I know a similarly built chap who got in. These are the 'frontline' we keep hearing about.

Wile E. Coyote

siochan84 wrote: »

Everything you have just said...

You still haven't put forward your suggestions on where the the money can be saved.

siochan84

irish_bob wrote: »

you sound like one of the well dressed upper crust passengers on the titanic who believed they shouldnt drowned because they themselves didnt strike any iceberg

Haha, Irish_Bob a few words of advice. Learn to put full stops in your sentences instead of comma's and include a few capital letters now and then before you start talking about straight A's and dissing the intelligence of every public sector worker in the country. Have you ever saved a human life or cut people out of a crushed car after a crash? We all know that it isn't too difficult. Is it Bob?? I'd love to know what you work as, infact no I don't. :rolleyes: It wouldn't matter I'd still see you as thick.

Dozen Wicked Words

siochan84 wrote: »

Everything you have just said is utter rubbish. No nurse I know earns 50k a year, are you mad?? Unless they are near retirement! And there actually wouldn't be anybody that would replace me because big suprise! They are not hiring anymore!! As for my friends in Australia they say the quality of life there for nurses is alot better because they actually do what nurses are supposed to do!! I'm just reporting back what they say! Unlike in Ireland were nursing seems to be still stuck in the stone age, they still make nurses do non-nursing duties here but also give them the medical tasks and responsibility. Double work. In Australia they don't, they just do what they are trained to do! Your obviously not a nurse working in Ireland today, if you were you would be livid about this paycut. Tell me WHY should I take a pay cut if I'm already doing the work of three people when it's short staffed? In an office job things are just slowed down, in a hospital lives are at danger when it's short staffed. Big difference! :mad:

siochan84 sadly I think you are pissing in the wind. You are not going to persuade Irish bob, or other regular posters on these threads of the merit of your job. You need to look at least 10 of these PS threads to see the responses you will get, why in this very thread we have the classic "my cousin earns 33 grand in NHS which is he thinks is more than enough" and the "sacred cow" (a regularly used one, you will grow to love it), "nurses degrees are a waste". There are a few others, but I wont spoil your fun, why not try and find them yourself?

Don't bother reminding them that a Nurse in the Private sector earns roughly the same as one in the Public Sector (Thats the one I use ad nauseam!), it will fall on deaf ears because it doesn't really go with the whole PS earn more than Private sector argument, so look out for 30%, fast becoming my favourite percentage,

subliminally yours,

Dooferoaks

P.S. No need to be nasty about someone's punctuation. You get the point he is making, commas or not. I dare say he is educated and calling someone thick isn't classy (san diego)

Stark

dooferoaks wrote: »

You are not going to persuade Irish bob, or other regular posters on these threads of the merit of your job.

It's not about the merits of the job, it's about the affordability when we're borrowing twenty-odd billion a year to pay for it.

irish_bob

siochan84 wrote: »

Everything you have just said is utter rubbish. No nurse I know earns 50k a year, are you mad?? Unless they are near retirement! And there actually wouldn't be anybody that would replace me because big suprise! They are not hiring anymore!! As for my friends in Australia they say the quality of life there for nurses is alot better because they actually do what nurses are supposed to do!! I'm just reporting back what they say! Unlike in Ireland were nursing seems to be still stuck in the stone age, they still make nurses do non-nursing duties here but also give them the medical tasks and responsibility. Double work. In Australia they don't, they just do what they are trained to do! Your obviously not a nurse working in Ireland today, if you were you would be livid about this paycut. Tell me WHY should I take a pay cut if I'm already doing the work of three people when it's short staffed? In an office job things are just slowed down, in a hospital lives are at danger when it's short staffed. Big difference! :mad:

the average salary for a nurse is over 50 k per year , im trying to find the link , its taking me longer than i expected , nurses start off on 31 k plus per year btw

as for why you should take a pay cut , the most obvious answer is because your employer is 20 billion in the red but here is my answer , because its embarrassing that europes sickest economy should have the EU,s highest paid nurses , guards ,teachers , consultants and public servants

what makes you so special that you think you should be shielded from the effects of the worst rescession to hit this country since the foundation of the state , stop acting like a spoiled brat and be thankfull you are so well paid and so relativley safe from loosing your job

Wile E. Coyote

dooferoaks wrote: »

Don't bother reminding them that a Nurse in the Private sector earns roughly the same as one in the Public Sector (Thats the one I use ad nauseam!), it will fall on deaf ears because it doesn't really go with the whole PS earn more than Private sector argument, so look out for 30%, fast becoming my favourite percentage,

Wage similarities in the Public and Private sector are irrelevant. Workers in the Private sector only get paid if the employer can afford to pay the wages. The government CAN NOT AFFORD the wages of the Public sector.

Dozen Wicked Words

Stark wrote: »

It's not about the merits of the job, it's about the affordability when we're borrowing twenty-odd billion a year to pay for it.

Sorry to disagree with you Stark, but if you review Irish_Bobs postings on nurses you will see he does have issues with Nursing as a profession and its merit, as well as the cost.

Just sayin is all.

markpb

siochan84 wrote: »

Everything you have just said is utter rubbish. No nurse I know earns 50k a year, are you mad??

A friend of mine graduated as a nurse at the same time as I finished by IT degree and masters. I started on 23k, she started on 30k. I don't begrudge her that money because of the hours and the work but that was five years ago so between increments and pay-rises, I'd imagine she wouldn't be far off 50k now.

As for my friends in Australia they say the quality of life there for nurses is alot better because they actually do what nurses are supposed to do!! I'm just reporting back what they say! Unlike in Ireland were nursing seems to be still stuck in the stone age, they still make nurses do non-nursing duties

The problems you described are actually caused by the unions, not by management. The Gardai union long-resisted any attempts by the government to hire civilians to do paperwork and let the Gardai to their jobs. We've all heard about the problem in the hospitals where the TEEU won't allow anyone but their members (fully qualified electricians) to change light bulbs without going on strike. The civil service union won't allow it's members to be transferred to other departments (in the same area) even if means one is over-staffed and the other is under-staffed.

It's union-related attitudes like this that has pushed up the cost of running the public sector.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

irish_bob

dooferoaks wrote: »

siochan84 sadly I think you are pissing in the wind. You are not going to persuade Irish bob, or other regular posters on these threads of the merit of your job. You need to look at least 10 of these PS threads to see the responses you will get, why in this very thread we have the classic "my cousin earns 33 grand in NHS which is he thinks is more than enough" and the "sacred cow" (a regularly used one, you will grow to love it), "nurses degrees are a waste". There are a few others, but I wont spoil your fun, why not try and find them yourself?

Don't bother reminding them that a Nurse in the Private sector earns roughly the same as one in the Public Sector (Thats the one I use ad nauseam!), it will fall on deaf ears because it doesn't really go with the whole PS earn more than Private sector argument, so look out for 30%, fast becoming my favourite percentage,

subliminally yours,

Dooferoaks

P.S. No need to be nasty about someone's punctuation. You get the point he is making, commas or not. I dare say he is educated and calling someone thick isn't classy (san diego)

listen mr generosity , if your so in awe of the nursing fraternity and believe they are so underpaid , why dont you become a private patron and make a personal donation so as to top up siochans apparent dismal salary , while im sure she appreciates you defending her honour , money speaks louder than words , i on the other hand have no wish to pay extra levels of tax so as to maintain the countrys status of having the highest paid nurses in the EU

Dozen Wicked Words

irish_bob wrote: »

listen mr generosity , if your so in awe of the nursing fraternity and believe they are so underpaid , why dont you become a private patron and make a personal donation so as to top up siochans apparent dismal salary , while im sure she appreciates you defending her honour , money speaks louder than words , i on the other hand have no wish to pay extra levels of tax so as to maintain the countrys status of having the highest paid nurses in the EU

oops, forgot that one. That is one of my favourites, don't give them all away in this thread though, we wont have the fun of finding the other old chestnuts in other posts.

KELTICKNIGHTT

siochan84 wrote: »

Haha, Irish_Bob a few words of advice. Learn to put full stops in your sentences instead of comma's and include a few capital letters now and then before you start talking about straight A's and dissing the intelligence of every public sector worker in the country. Have you ever saved a human life or cut people out of a crushed car after a crash? We all know that it isn't too difficult. Is it Bob?? I'd love to know what you work as, infact no I don't. :rolleyes: It wouldn't matter I'd still see you as thick.

smart mouth wont get you anywhere,keep it up and se what admins have too say

gerire

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

You still haven't put forward your suggestions on where the the money can be saved.

Here's one in 08 we gave out 889 million of Govt money 9/10's of a billion Source before im lynched
If we are borrowing 20 bil per year to fund our spending this is a massive expense we can no longer afford to be giving out this huge ammount of "other peoples money". By this i mean it is not tax payers money because we clearly do not have enough tax payers money, therefore it must be some of the borrowed money.

I know it may come across as cruel etc; but if that number was to drop to 250 mil there is an extra 639 mil that we would not have to borrow

Straighttalker

Wow! Absolutely amazed at the viciousness and nastiness coming from people who have brought into government / irish independent/rte propaganda. Irish Bob seems to have an obsessive hatred for front line workers who keep this country going. Maybe if he had to see or do the things we did he might have another opinion. AUstralian wages are fairly similar with a much lowers cost and higher standard of living. Any more pay cuts on top of the ones already will signal an exodus from front line services. Those same people who are abusing the fine people who work in emergency services ( which they think are comparable to private sector jobs) are the same who will be giving out when there is no one to look after them in hospital or call to them when they ave been attacked. You reap what you sow.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Straighttalker wrote: »

Wow! Absolutely amazed at the viciousness and nastiness coming from people who have brought into government / irish independent/rte propaganda. Irish Bob seems to have an obsessive hatred for front line workers who keep this country going. Maybe if he had to see or do the things we did he might have another opinion. AUstralian wages are fairly similar with a much lowers cost and higher standard of living. Any more pay cuts on top of the ones already will signal an exodus from front line services. Those same people who are abusing the fine people who work in emergency services ( which they think are comparable to private sector jobs) are the same who will be giving out when there is no one to look after them in hospital or call to them when they ave been attacked. You reap what you sow.

you talk the biggest load of crap i have heard here in a while,propaganda is only comming from public sector trying to justifie looking for raises and not touch there poor pensions when the country cant afford there over payed ps people,wise up,services being around before you where born and ireland is behind because they pay for over priced staff in public services who the tax payer pay for,i can see nurses and doctors getting paid what they do but a ambalance driver and co ,dont think so.they will always be people to fill your boots if your gone ,come back when you can talk some sense and not dribble

irish_bob

Straighttalker wrote: »

Wow! Absolutely amazed at the viciousness and nastiness coming from people who have brought into government / irish independent/rte propaganda. Irish Bob seems to have an obsessive hatred for front line workers who keep this country going. Maybe if he had to see or do the things we did he might have another opinion. AUstralian wages are fairly similar with a much lowers cost and higher standard of living. Any more pay cuts on top of the ones already will signal an exodus from front line services. Those same people who are abusing the fine people who work in emergency services ( which they think are comparable to private sector jobs) are the same who will be giving out when there is no one to look after them in hospital or call to them when they ave been attacked. You reap what you sow.

i will eat my hat the day this country struggles to attract people to fill the role of nurse , guard or doctor

as for the frontline workers keeping this country going , what do you say to someone who makes such an arguement , i guess its a nurses or guards country and the rest of us just live here

yoshytoshy

Straighttalker wrote: »

Wow! Absolutely amazed at the viciousness and nastiness coming from people who have brought into government / irish independent/rte propaganda.

Presuming you mean "bought into" ,it's the ps who bought into the governments propaganda ten years ago.
Deals where done to keep the ps quiet and now reality is starting to bite ,they think they can go back in time.

I feel sorry for a lot of people in the public service ,who actually believe that everyone is out to get them.
It's not the case ,it's the governments mistakes that have caused the trouble.

Hillel

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that BC has the bottle to take the level of measures necessary. Nor has he the necessary leadership skills to bring the country with him, even if he did. Every month he is in power the country goes further down the tubes.

The longer it takes to make the necessary pay-cuts, the worse the eventual outcome will be. In the long run everyone but longterm public sector workers, towards the top of their scales, will lose out. The younger public sector workers, amongst the most enthusiastic supporters of militant action, will never see those wage levels. The money will simply not be there. Truly a Pyrrhic Victory!

old boy

InKonspikuou2 wrote: »

Why is it that the only people here making any logical sense are the ones opposed to the demands of the PS? I have just read every page of this and i just don't get why PS workers think they are beyond pay cuts and why they can't seem to understand that the Government doesn't have the money to continue on paying their current wages. Donegalfella has been spot on but nobody has proposed any alternative solutions to his side of the argument. I mean seriously, what do PS want the Government to do and are they prepared to live with the consequences of their demands being met?

as i have stated often, most public sector workers are either by their training and or work are control freaks, they constantly telling other people what to do, or how it should be done, or when it should be done, they are used to giving orders/instructions, not being told what to accept/do, one cannot get through to them any thing that they do not want to hear.:mad:

Wile E. Coyote

gerire wrote: »

Here's one in 08 we gave out 889 million of Govt money 9/10's of a billion Source before im lynched
If we are borrowing 20 bil per year to fund our spending this is a massive expense we can no longer afford to be giving out this huge ammount of "other peoples money". By this i mean it is not tax payers money because we clearly do not have enough tax payers money, therefore it must be some of the borrowed money.

I know it may come across as cruel etc; but if that number was to drop to 250 mil there is an extra 639 mil that we would not have to borrow

Well done. You've saved €639million by depriving the poorest people on the planet and condemning them to death just to have a few extra euro in your pocket. And breaking a UN mandate in the process if I'm not mistaken (open to correction on that). Now where would you make the other €3.37billion in cuts?

Badboy1977

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I really hate Multi quoting-it just gives the impression one is being a smart arse and not bothered about writing a coherent and expansive paragraph.

Badboy1977

old boy wrote: »

as i have stated often, most public sector workers are either by their training and or work are control freaks, they constantly telling other people what to do, or how it should be done, or when it should be done, they are used to giving orders/instructions, not being told what to accept/do, one cannot get through to them any thing that they do not want to hear.:mad:

What nonsense you write. Sound like you are projecting a personally bad experience with a public service onto every public servant or you have a problem with authority of any description:eek:.

old boy

Badboy1977 wrote: »

What nonsense you write. Sound like you are projecting a personally bad experience with a public service onto every public servant or you have a problem with authority of any description:eek:.

you may call it nonsense, i call it fact, no i am not projecting anything, no i do not have a problem with authority, i am calling it as i see it, and to quote a rather famous bard, the truth is a pity but the pity is it is true, have you ever tried to get a ps to change their mind, the phrase taking a horse to water springs to mind, they all seem to have two points of view, the ps and their own.
as an aide i am wondering why many newbie boards members seem to be completly on the side of the ps

Shea O'Meara

old boy wrote: »

as i have stated often, most public sector workers are either by their training and or work are control freaks, they constantly telling other people what to do, or how it should be done, or when it should be done, they are used to giving orders/instructions, not being told what to accept/do, one cannot get through to them any thing that they do not want to hear.:mad:

Telling other people what to do and how to do it is their job.
You are aware of Councillors on these County Councils? Any Public Sector person you dealt with would be doing their job as layed out by elected officials. Do you think they suit themselves and make up the rules as they go? They're not all Fianna Fail;)

K-9

gerire wrote: »

Here's one in 08 we gave out 889 million of Govt money 9/10's of a billion Source before im lynched
If we are borrowing 20 bil per year to fund our spending this is a massive expense we can no longer afford to be giving out this huge ammount of "other peoples money". By this i mean it is not tax payers money because we clearly do not have enough tax payers money, therefore it must be some of the borrowed money.

I know it may come across as cruel etc; but if that number was to drop to 250 mil there is an extra 639 mil that we would not have to borrow

It's down to about €500 Million now. So that's a 30% cut.

So yes, budgets are being cut. The HSE will be down €1,000,000,000 next year.

Public Sector Pay and Social Welfare alone are €40,000,000,000.

The rest is €15,000,000,000 and being slashed.

We take in €32,000,000,000. One thing EVERYBODY should have grasped over the last few years is credit doesn't work. Govts., aren't immune to this.

If we don't cut pay and SW and cut everything else, there'll be nothing left. We'll be paying SW and PS pay with no schools or hospitals to actually work in!.

Keeping borrowing isn't an option.

Why? Because if we keep borrowing as we are, interest payments will eat into expenditure. Interest payments get higher the longer we do nothing until eventually nobody lends, even the ECB.

The cuts have to be made in pay. At this stage it's up to the Unions how they do it.

Badboy1977

old boy wrote: »

you may call it nonsense, i call it fact, no i am not projecting anything, no i do not have a problem with authority, i am calling it as i see it, and to quote a rather famous bard, the truth is a pity but the pity is it is true, have you ever tried to get a ps to change their mind, the phrase taking a horse to water springs to mind, they all seem to have two points of view, the ps and their own.
as an aide i am wondering why many newbie boards members seem to be completely on the side of the ps

Whatever you do , Dont move from making generalisations(gross) to specific examples!

Badboy1977

K-9 wrote: »

It's down to about €500 Million now. So that's a 30% cut.

So yes, budgets are being cut. The HSE will be down €1,000,000,000 next year.

Public Sector Pay and Social Welfare alone are €40,000,000,000.

The rest is €15,000,000,000 and being slashed.

We take in €32,000,000,000. One thing EVERYBODY should have grasped over the last few years is credit doesn't work. Govts., aren't immune to this.

If we don't cut pay and SW and cut everything else, there'll be nothing left. We'll be paying SW and PS pay with no schools or hospitals to actually work in!.

Keeping borrowing isn't an option.

Why? Because if we keep borrowing as we are, interest payments will eat into expenditure. Interest payments get higher the longer we do nothing until eventually nobody lends, even the ECB.

The cuts have to be made in pay. At this stage it's up to the Unions how they do it.

We all know the Maths. We obviously must cut and Public pay must form part of that. However, can you explain this to me? Why Should i Take another pay cut under the following conditions
1) There are excessive numbers of staff HSE
2) We have no wealth tax to make those who benefited most during boom , help us out during what we are continually told is a crisis
3) Bank bonuses are still being paid
4) Two non viable Banks -AIB/BOI paid their staff pay increases. Yes the Labour court forced it but funny how a Government can get the law changed lickity split when it suits but when it doesn't, it falls back on the courts.
5) Childcare is ridiculously expensive-why no reform?