24th Nov Strikes... What a joke

prinz

force eleven wrote: »

Well, we'll all get our chance to show our disapproval/approval of our current Dail masters soon, I sincerely hope. Not that that will solve anything.

It might give me a break from the stupid tabloidesque nonsense that gets peddled by both sides of the public private divide.

lazer.blue

oscarBravo wrote: »

That's a sentiment I've heard expressed quite regularly, but let's remember that the burden amounts to some two billion euro per month.

How many better-off are there, and how much will they have to pay to make a dent in two billion euro?

That's not a rhetorical question. The unions would have us believe that taxing the rich will solve this problem. I'd like to see some numbers. How big a dent will that make in two billion euro? Numbers, please.

What I mean here is the better off you are the greater the proportion of the burden you should carry and I don’t mean only the richer or super rich or whatever you want to call them. I for one believe everyone including the unemployed like myself need to make a contribution to put this country right.

My point about the politicians cutting their own pay by 50% is about them showing leadership rather than making a dent in the two billion euro

The Volt

A major problem with Boards.ie is that it is a one-sided debate with the same arguements being pedalled and I'm beginning to get the impression that boards.ie has been infiltrated by the minions of the golden circle.

ChillyJilly

Pete M. wrote: »

I ask anyone here who doesn't support us, what would you do in the same situation?

How many people working in the public sector at the moment are supporting families where the other partner has lost a job in the private sector?

I'd say quite a few and it is pretty short sighted, petty and ignorant to give out about the people who run the hospitals, local authorities etc. when they are only doing what you would do yourselves.

What I would do, and what I have already done, is that I've taken my pay cut and thanked my lucky stars that I still have a job.

If our company didnt take a paycut alot of us would have been let go. To stop this, we decided to take a paycut, to help keep others in jobs.

So please dont presume that you know what I for one would do.

I've been in the same situation.... no sorry scrap that, I havent been in the same situation. My situation was worse as I did not have a secure job to fall back on.

The country is fecked so now is not the time for arguing... however it certainly is not the time for striking either. Take your paycut and help our country back on it's feet.

Sizzler

Voltwad wrote: »

A major problem with Boards.ie is that it is a one-sided debate with the same arguements being pedalled and I'm beginning to get the impression that boards.ie has been infiltrated by the minions of the golden circle.

Or maybe you are in the minority with your resilient worshipping of O'Connor & Begg etc.?

I like to think is fairly balanced, you can't expect people to agree with everything you say, its the internet!

The Volt

seamus wrote: »

Time to trot out the usual figues. I don't even know if these are right anymore;
50% of PAYE workers in this country pay zero tax. The top 6.5% of earners pay 49% of the income tax in this country.

So the excuses of tax dodges and loopholes are a red herring when we're not even taxing half of our bloody workforce. The idea that we should be taxing the high earners even more is a joke and the idea that the common man is being screwed over while the "fat cats" cook the books is also a complete joke. The common man barely pays any tax and is in no position to dictate on that.

What about all of the taxpayers money that was used to bail out the extremely wealthy patrons of Anglo Irish Bank who never lent any moneys to the ordinary joe soap? Which was there solely to fill the excesses of the golden circle? We would not have to deal with the extent of the public service cuts if the government had of had the courage to let that bent bank collapse.

I do not understand how people would support cutting the pay of relatively low paid public sector workers and social welfare recipients in order to bail out people like Sean Fitzpatrick and Sean Quinn. Unless of course they had their fingers in the pie as well?

The fact that almost all of the banks behaved in a manner that has brought this country to its knees and not one of them has been brought to account by our government tells its own story.

The Volt

Sizzler wrote: »

Or maybe you are in the minority with your resilient worshipping of O'Connor & Begg etc.?

I like to think is fairly balanced, you can't expect people to agree with everything you say, its the internet!

I was also in the minority of people who didnt support the government that has left us in the situation that we are in now but that doesn't make me wrong.

Badboy1977

What business of anybody's is it what a striking worker does? There is no legal requirement that you picket your place of work.If Im not paid by my employer (for this strike day), then if I decide to go North,South East or sit buck naked in my living room-its no bloody business of yours or anybody's. The major point of a strike(this needs to be pointed out to the dim wit who started this thread and others of his dwarf like intellect) ,is the withdrawal of Labour.


That's it-deal with it.

bad2dabone

lazer.blue wrote: »

My point about the politicians cutting their own pay by 50% is about them showing leadership rather than making a dent in the two billion euro

hear hear.

Does Cowen really need 310,000 euro a year?
plus expenses?


They need to make a gesture, a serious gesture.
Cutting peoples pay while they still earn huge sums is wrong.

The Volt

bad2dabone wrote: »

hear hear.

Does Cowen really need 310,000 euro a year?
plus expenses?


They need to make a gesture, a serious gesture.
Cutting peoples pay while they still earn huge sums is wrong.

Is Pat Kenny really worth 4 teachers, 4 firemen and 4 nurses?

oscarBravo

Voltwad wrote: »

All that's required is that people pay according to their ability to pay and at the moment, the wealthy in this country use tax dodges and accountants to ensure they pay a smaller percentage of their wealth in tax than ordinary PAYE workers.

With respect, that's not even remotely close to being an answer to the question I asked.

Two billion a month. Numbers, please.

Pete M. wrote: »

I ask anyone here who doesn't support us, what would you do in the same situation?

Would you sit back and let the Government who mishandled, (thats putting it politely) the boom to dictate to you how they are going to deal with the bust and that is by shafting you, repeatedly, while allowing the banks etc. to keep on chugging away with our (all of us private, public, whatever, taxes like) hard earned cash?

I run a small business. The same government is dictating to me in the same way it is dictating to you.

I fail to see how you striking is going to help fill the 2 billion euro a month hole we're in. That's the problem that needs to be solved, and needs to be solved urgently.

lazer.blue wrote: »

What I mean here is the better off you are the greater the proportion of the burden you should carry and I don’t mean only the richer or super rich or whatever you want to call them. I for one believe everyone including the unemployed like myself need to make a contribution to put this country right.

See above, and see seamus' post earlier. We have a problem. We need solutions. Striking won't fix the problem. How do we fill the two billion euro hole?

My point about the politicians cutting their own pay by 50% is about them showing leadership rather than making a dent in the two billion euro

Honestly? Leadership is all very well, but I'd rather see some concrete action.

bad2dabone

Voltwad wrote: »

Is Pat Kenny really worth 4 teachers, 4 firemen and 4 nurses?

absolutely not.

And the thing is people who pay him would say "we couldnt get anyone else to do his job"

which is ridiculous.

they should offer him 100k - if he refuses he can get a job elsewhere. would tv3 pay him 600k? nope, would he get 600k in the UK? nope.

he's a lucky baxtard.

PomBear

I was out on the picket, feckin freezing it was

who_ru

Dec 3rd is day 2 of PS Strikes - it's a last gasp gamble by the champagne socialists like McLoone, Begg & O' Connor to try and intimidate the Govt to give in and stop trying to correct the public finances. i have a slight feeling that Cowen in particular is prone to buckle but maybe no lenihan so much. anyway it will be another day's wages saved for the taxpayer and another bumper day for the shopping centre's up and down the country - jeez the run up to crimbo could be a quite one since most of the folks with money will already have got their big shop in - on whichever side of the border.

Stark

bad2dabone wrote: »

absolutely not.

And the thing is people who pay him would say "we couldnt get anyone else to do his job"

which is ridiculous.

they should offer him 100k - if he refuses he can get a job elsewhere. would tv3 pay him 600k? nope, would he get 600k in the UK? nope.

he's a lucky baxtard.

At least they were able to chop 35% off his salary with zero fuss when he stopped bringing in the advertising revenue.

bad2dabone

Stark wrote: »

At least they were able to chop 35% off his salary with zero fuss when he stopped bringing in the advertising revenue.

I agree that kenny took his cut without fuss.

But he still earns 600k a year.
He's hardly under pressure.

yoshytoshy

Have to say I'm disgusted at the attitudes of the strikers and their mentality.
I've taken a 30% pay cut ,going back 18 months ago. This was to enable job prices to lower and keep work coming in.
I'm still not guaranteed of a job next year:(

Things are due to get even worse after christmas ,which means theres even less money to fund services.
Theres a reason it's called the public service ,they provide services for the public.
Today I call them ,the public nusiance:mad:

Stark

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Except of course if the high level execs in a multi-national are also paying this high marginal rate of tax. These execs have the influence to cause a business to relocate to a country without excessive taxation -- the result being this country is now minus the corporation tax and suddenly has a higher unemployment rate.

This is why you need to be careful about overtaxing.

Exactly. Tax on executive salaries is a factor taken into account when making a decision to locate here.

testicle

kippy wrote: »

Theres absolutely no proof that this extra traffic in the north is fully made up of Public servants on strike.

Have you proof that there are no Pubic Servants (sic) in the traffic jams in Newry and Enniskillen?

Le King

testicle wrote: »

Have you proof that there are no Pubic Servants (sic) in the traffic jams in Newry and Enniskillen?

Every last one of them were. Way to help the economy.

yoshytoshy

J.S. Pill wrote: »

Even if some chose to abandon the picket lines in favour of shopping is it really of any relevance at all?

It's got to do with how out of touch they are with the economy.
Half the arguments on the radio today came from picketers ,who claim that if they get wage cuts ,it will affect the economy.

kippy

testicle wrote: »

Have you proof that there are no Pubic Servants (sic) in the traffic jams in Newry and Enniskillen?

I never said that there were no public servants involved in these trips up North today........

brianthebard

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Have to say I'm disgusted at the attitudes of the strikers and their mentality.
I've taken a 30% pay cut ,going back 18 months ago. This was to enable job prices to lower and keep work coming in.

Has this policy improved job creation? What exactly is the government doing to create jobs? and why should workers roll over and take it if they aren't even being given anything in return, ie the promise of a coherent strategy and long term planning which will lead to sustainable growth soon?

yoshytoshy wrote: »

It's got to do with how out of touch they are with the economy.
Half the arguments on the radio today came from picketers ,who claim that if they get wage cuts ,it will affect the economy.

Eh yeah of course it will, if you take ten percent of a person's earnings away thats ten percent they can't spend. Is that not obvious to you? Cuts might bring some short term respite and slightly decrease the amount of money the government is borrowing, but they will only have a negative impact after that.

lazer.blue

oscarBravo wrote: »

That's a sentiment I've heard expressed quite regularly, but let's remember that the burden amounts to some two billion euro per month.

How many better-off are there, and how much will they have to pay to make a dent in two billion euro?

That's not a rhetorical question. The unions would have us believe that taxing the rich will solve this problem. I'd like to see some numbers. How big a dent will that make in two billion euro? Numbers, please.

oscarBravo wrote: »

With respect, that's not even remotely close to being an answer to the question I asked.

Two billion a month. Numbers, please.

I run a small business. The same government is dictating to me in the same way it is dictating to you.

I fail to see how you striking is going to help fill the 2 billion euro a month hole we're in. That's the problem that needs to be solved, and needs to be solved urgently.

See above, and see seamus' post earlier. We have a problem. We need solutions. Striking won't fix the problem. How do we fill the two billion euro hole? Honestly? Leadership is all very well, but I'd rather see some concrete action.

I don't know all the figures and I certainly don't have the answers. What I am saying is if 2 billion needs to be saved then everyone should contribute to saving that 2 billion according to their means.


If people believed a bit more in what the government is doing then they may be more willing to go along with them

WRENALDO

Disgraceful!Bumper day of shopping up in the North as seen on as 601 news for the public sector workers . Some up there to do there 'Christmas shopping' as one woman said. And one scumbag saying 'it's great it is it's a day off' No surprise there having another strike in a forthnight as well.

yoshytoshy

brianthebard wrote: »

Has this policy improved job creation? What exactly is the government doing to create jobs? and why should workers roll over and take it if they aren't even being given anything in return, ie the promise of a coherent strategy and long term planning which will lead to sustainable growth soon?

The current setup is so inefficient that it's like putting an elephant on a see-saw ,with a child on the other side.

Why don't all the south african countries set up public services ,paid for with loans from EU. Who are we to say anything to them

brianthebard

yoshytoshy wrote: »

The current setup is so inefficient that it's like putting an elephant on a see-saw ,with a child on the other side.

What set up are you referring to?

bonzos

I am a private sector worker who up until a few weeks ago was on the dole,i got a job for 6 week on upgrading work in 2 state offices in my local area....i was delighted to get work even if is only for 6 weeks!the level of waste i have witnessed in the past few weeks is unreal,countless cigarette+ tea breaks every day,most people bring a paper or a book with them to work and seem to have time to read it during working hours,supervisors ignoring constant dosing and every excuse ben used to complain that we are prevenying them from working....its a disgrace!!!!we were told yesterday that if we entered the buliding today the guards would be called and we would be arrested for tresspassing....these people(not all of them) dont need pay cuts ....they need to be sacked for ripping off our country,i passed the building today several times and only a handfull of people outside.they are dragging our country into the ground!!!!!!

yoshytoshy

brianthebard wrote: »

What set up are you referring to?

The fianna fail set up and every agreement that was made in the last ten years with them.
Everything has changed ,maybe if they were gone ,it would make it easier to understand.

oscarBravo

lazer.blue wrote: »

I don't know all the figures and I certainly don't have the answers.

From what I can see, that's equally true of the unions. They don't know the figures and they don't have the answers, but they're pre-emptively striking to try to dissuade the government from doing something that might actually address the problem.

What I am saying is if 2 billion needs to be saved then everyone should contribute to saving that 2 billion according to their means.

What do you have to say to this post?