24th Nov Strikes... What a joke

maggy_thatcher

bobbyjoe wrote: »

Sounds reasonable. So far we've seen those hit are services, the old, the sick and students. Now they are after PS workers. If some others were also getting hit maybe there would be more willingness to "share the pain".

And the income levies of 2/4/6% depending on your salary don't count as hitting mid/high/very high earners?

Sizzler

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/every-teacher-in-ireland-is-here-as-tills-ring-out-1952757.html

wrote:

GONE shopping. The tills were ringing north of the border as southern shoppers, including droves of striking public servants, used the national day of action to migrate in search of a bargain.

When they finally managed to extricate themselves from the massive traffic jam on the motorway, shopping centre car parks in Newry were filled with southern registration plates.

The Quays Shopping Centre, the first opportunity for southerners to part themselves from their cash, was full of parents leading their bored-looking children round the shops. Most youngsters had probably hoped to be spending their windfall day off rather differently.

In Sainsburys, trolleys heaved under slabs of beer and boxes of wine. Even a child's pushchair, now minus its occupant, became a repository for bottles of gin, vodka and rum.

"Look at the crowds," said one woman in a distinctive southern lilt.

"Sure every teacher in Ireland is here," replied her friend, somewhat uncharitably.

Queues for the checkouts snaked down the aisles, with many of the first-timers making a rookie mistake by joining the lines nearest to the drinks section, which are always the longest.

Student Pauline Burke from Lucan in Dublin was making her first foray north of the border thanks to the national day of action.

"I had no classes because of the strike so I thought I'd come up and have a look.

"The way things are priced down the south it's just for greed. I spend the majority of my money at home so I don't think there's anything wrong with coming up here," she added.

Cheaper

She was joined by her friend, music teacher Claire Sherry from Walkinstown, Dublin, a more seasoned Newry shopper.

"Things are much cheaper here, that's why so many people come up," she said.
Another Dubliner, Katherine from Artane, is a regular visitor to the North and said people have to follow a bargain.

"People say you should be patriotic but you have to suit your pocket.

"I know the wages are not as good up here, but if they can afford to sell things as cheaply as they are, then why can't they do the same down south?"

"I come up all the time, a couple of times a year, mainly for the drink and the Christmas stuff," she added.

Meanwhile, not everyone was feeling so at ease with their decision to defect North.

One shopper, a train driver from the South Circular Road in Dublin, admitted to having doubts about spending his money in the Queen's jurisdiction as he stood with his trolley laden with Christmas crackers and selection boxes.

"I feel terrible doing it, I feel I'm giving money away, but I just follow the boss," he said, pointing to his partner.

"I'm on my day off, I'm a train driver so I'm not meant to be on strike," he joked.

"This is our first time doing a big shop here. You definitely get good value, if only on the wine," he added.

One teacher willing to go on record anyway!

dresden8

Clanrickard wrote: »

The Public Sector don't pay tax and I am tried of this waffle being repeated. It is a book keeping trick. A Public Sector Worker gets for the sake of argument 100 euro gross. Lets say she is taxed at 20%. She gets net 80 euro. She hasn't paid tax as such. The entire amount has come from the private sector.

Also the Unions want high taxes on high earners most of whom are in the private sector. I would suggest the Public Sector are on high middle incomes rather than high incomes. In the private sector there are some people at the top, some in the middle and a good lot at the bottom.

That's a silly arguement. My payslip shows significant deductions for tax each week.

If it were true how come you're not on here banging away that the public sector pay bill is not in fact 20 billion or so but only 11 or 12 billion?

dresden8

Sizzler wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/every-teacher-in-ireland-is-here-as-tills-ring-out-1952757.html

One teacher willing to go on record anyway!

The article claims that every teacher in Ireland is there and then goes on to point out people who aren't public sector strikers who went North for the day.

bobbyjoe

dresden8 wrote: »

The article claims that every teacher in Ireland is there and then goes on to point out people who aren't public sector strikers who went North for the day.

RTE was worse. Their proof that all the picketers were up North shopping was some kid in a car park pointing saying "he's a striker" then he burst out laughing.

prinz

Sizzler wrote: »

One teacher willing to go on record anyway!

The only person it mentions is a music teacher who could just as easily be a private teacher?

prinz

Sizzler wrote: »

Let them strike again, the €30m thats saved for everyday they go out should be given to the flood victims across the country, people who will only be too grateful.

Yeah, and I don't suppose any public sector workers were victims to flooding..

meditraitor wrote: »

Good lord, no wonder the ps think they should not take a pay cut, the arrogance

Did you read the comment that was a reply to?

bobbyjoe

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

And the income levies of 2/4/6% depending on your salary don't count as hitting mid/high/very high earners?

Not at all. The 6% on highest earners is still less than the pension levy on earners of less than 35k.

dresden8

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

You aren't looking at the big picture. If you increase the marginal rate, then you hit the employers of the private sector workers. These employers are generally more capable to relocate to a country with better taxes, taking the entire Irish presence with it...so you end up with higher unemployment, less corporation tax income, etc. Is that what you want?

Er no, income tax is paid by employees.

Sizzler

prinz wrote: »

The only person it mentions is a music teacher who could just as easily be a private teacher?

If she was I'd imagine she worked in a private school and hence would have been at work yesterday no?

prinz wrote: »

Yeah, and I don't suppose any public sector workers were victims to flooding..

Of course and they are fully entitled to the money just like anybody else! I didnt imply they werent? I said the money saved should be used constructively for people who need it. Would be a clever move if the govt had any cop on, but they dont :mad:

prinz

Sizzler wrote: »

If she was I'd imagine she worked in a private school and hence would have been at work yesterday no?

Ever heard of a day off... or a self employed music teacher?

Sizzler wrote: »

Of course and they are fully entitled to the money just like anybody else! I didnt imply they werent?

Yes you did.

dresden8

Sizzler wrote: »

If she was I'd imagine she worked in a private school and hence would have been at work yesterday no?

She could be a self-employed music teacher. Should we go on with this?

Sizzler

prinz wrote: »

Ever heard of a day off... or a self employed music teacher?

LOL, thats a first. She goes from school to school taking random classes, genius. A bit like the littlest hobo.

prinz wrote: »

Yes you did.

I didnt, if you took that from it, then thats your perogative.

dresden8 wrote: »

She could be a self-employed music teacher. Should we go on with this?

No. Lets try and track her down and ask her shall we? Would that make you feel better? Pointless stuff, you are arguing just for the sake of it.

prinz

Sizzler wrote: »

LOL, thats a first. She goes from school to school taking random classes, genius. A bit like the littlest hobo..

I took guitar lessons from a music teacher for 4 years, he was self employed Not every teacher has to teach in a school :rolleyes:

Sizzler wrote: »

No. Lets try and track her down and ask her shall we? Would that make you feel better? Pointless stuff, you are arguing just for the sake of it.

A bit like making assumptions when it suits you I suppose, like OMG traffic in Newry, it simply must be all the public servants!

KELTICKNIGHTT

Civil Service 573.57 633.10 656.19 681.03 744.24 795.87 838.35 877.76 916.06
Prison Officers 949.22 1,043.98 1,093.33 1,106.71 1,067.60 1,117.93 1,149.12 1,189.67 1,196.50
Administrative Civil Servants 538.58 597.87 621.87 648.63 724.97 776.24 819.48 860.35 898.89
Industrial Civil Servants 460.96 506.99 524.22 534.22 562.57 627.63 676.20 691.00 742.85
Others in the Public Sector 309.49 384.93 479.81 432.48 478.03 430.53 418.05 423.01 483.56
Defence 505.79 548.77 587.96 609.24 665.30 690.16 732.26 767.01 808.45
An Garda Siochana 837.87 939.67 945.21 959.86 1,058.75 1,096.77 1,170.25 1,205.95 1,207.24
Education 644.47 698.44 718.93 743.41 809.16 856.66 879.90 921.00 946.47
Primary education 690.35 717.08 716.88 712.49 765.14 812.20 931.11 865.30 887.17
Secondary education (excl. VECs & ITs) 685.02 753.21 801.19 848.41 935.58 970.37 998.67 1,045.76 1,078.46
Third level education (excl. VECs & ITs) 627.10 691.84 762.92 799.82 875.26 907.86 949.21 1,020.06 1,064.70
VECs and Institutes of Technology 560.36 628.28 627.36 669.04 734.46 801.04 817.71 846.35 861.78
Regional Bodies 499.56 558.90 578.16 608.44 666.34 734.87 772.25 817.55 837.81
Local Authorities 494.39 551.71 573.46 605.91 663.85 731.62 769.01 814.25 833.37
Non-Local Authority Regional Bodies 615.30 739.34 731.04 787.69 819.83 844.90 879.84 829.93 1,001.89
Semi-State Companies 634.98 696.99 766.06 814.87 867.67 908.63 964.70 1,008.16 1,050.11
Commercial Semi-State Companies 632.81 697.18 773.45 825.36 874.48 913.84 974.67 1,021.86 1,066.71
Non-Commercial Semi-State Companies 646.29 697.10 731.90 765.96 836.23 885.09 920.50 955.07 1,003.10
Public Sector (excluding Health) 611.54 671.78 704.28 734.86 797.09 844.16 882.02 922.46 948.91
An Garda Siochana (excl. overtime) 737.80 790.40 836.57 862.36 920.76 966.48 983.60 1,003.98 1,076.68





and private

Distribution and business services (50-64, 70-74) 466.20 505.01 545.41 563.58 589.45 619.41 644.70 682.03 709.20 728.61
Motor trades (50) 391.32 430.50 467.68 469.86 502.15 541.04 572.18 601.54 638.40 636.75
Wholesale trade (51) 489.61 527.20 558.00 583.73 598.76 626.38 665.48 703.26 711.65 737.67
Retail trade (52) 427.89 487.06 541.78 585.88 620.84 639.01 660.43 705.05 742.24 770.20
Business services (55-64, 70-74) 480.55 513.52 551.46 561.43 585.53 619.01 642.86 678.99 705.34 723.62
Hotels and restaurants (55) 303.81 322.02 339.26 347.06 367.45 395.77 418.67 431.16 446.34 465.23
Land transport (60) 464.44 502.83 553.92 568.07 591.41 624.16 651.54 680.67 711.19 742.88
Other business activities (74) 491.64 534.85 575.78 595.20 630.80 656.89 672.97 704.63 726.52 726.60
Post and telecommunications (64) 646.53 672.06 722.33 736.16 744.12 781.50 799.88 .. .. ..
Real estate, renting of machinery and equipment (70-71) 451.56 487.66 538.87 594.69 640.67 709.98 761.94 830.39 856.00 863.65
Computing activities, research and development (72-73) 563.61 613.93 642.63 626.94 645.84 676.92 708.09 720.72 767.15 824.23
Wholesale and retail trade, repair of motor vehicles, motorcycles, personal and household goods (50-52) 440.46 489.59 534.42 567.50 596.58 620.12 647.90 687.37 716.04 737.32
Water and air transport, supporting transport and travel agent activities (61-63) 508.85 535.65 591.07 593.42 655.23 701.44 736.62 .. .. ..

bobbyjoe

Sizzler wrote: »

LOL, thats a first. She goes from school to school taking random classes, genius. A bit like the littlest hobo.

The guy I get guitar lessons off does a few hours at home, a day in a school and a few nights in a music school.

Sizzler

bobbyjoe wrote: »

The guy I get guitar lessons off does a few hours at home, a day in a school and a few nights in a music school.

So he does nixers, shocking stuff in the current economy

bobbyjoe

Sizzler wrote: »

So he does nixers, shocking stuff in the current economy

The point I'm making is that a music teacher in a shop during the strike day is not necessarily bunking off.

alejandro1977

Pete M. wrote: »

Ah shur it's great to see we're holding onto some of our old traditions anyway.

I'm just back from 5 hours in the rain on the picket in Sligo and to see some of the comments here giving out about PS workers makes me pretty sad about the whole situation.


...
And to those of you here who are on the dole because you can't find work or because you were let go, sincere commiserations, but remember that it's the taxes that we continue to pay that pay for it. The PS Unions also oppose cuts in social welfare so we're trying to stand up to the shower of idiots we have in Government for you as well as us.

Have you taken leave of your senses? The taxes that the Public Sector pays is what pays for the dole?

No - Private Sector companies and individuals generate profit and bring money into the country - the international markets are currently making up the difference (i.e. Gov Deficit) with Government Debt - but perhaps not for much longer...

And you have the gall to slate the "Amateur Economists"!

While I'm at it, to those who say "Why didn't you get a PS job in the boom times?" . I have a Degree in Electronic Engineering (and M Eng in Digital Signal Processing- if you know what that is) - what exactly am I supposed to do in the Public Sector that would benefit the country? We can't all be lecturers before you say it. I work in a Foreign MNC - one of the companies that actually keeps this country going; every week I curse my career guidance teacher who advised me not to think about money but choose a career in which I had an interest and for which I had an aptitude, but then I think of my friend who quit one of the County Councils (Civil Engineer) as he could not stand the laziness of his colleagues and lack of a challenge

kippy

alejandro1977 wrote: »

Have you taken leave of your senses? The taxes that the Public Sector pays is what pays for the dole?

No - Private Sector companies and individuals generate profit and bring money into the country - the international markets are currently making up the difference (i.e. Gov Deficit) with Government Debt - but perhaps not for much longer...

And you have the gall to slate the "Amateur Economists"!

While I'm at it, to those who say "Why didn't you get a PS job in the boom times?" . I have a Degree in Electronic Engineering (and M Eng in Digital Signal Processing- if you know what that is) - what exactly am I supposed to do in the Public Sector that would benefit the country? We can't all be lecturers before you say it. I work in a Foreign MNC - one of the companies that actually keeps this country going; every week I curse my career guidance teacher who advised me not to think about money but choose a career in which I had an interest and for which I had an aptitude, but then I think of my friend who quit one of the County Councils (Civil Engineer) as he could not stand the laziness of his colleagues and lack of a challenge

Are you saying you work to "benefit the country"?

People keep the country going, not foreign MNC's......

I aint going against you here but you'd want to be careful about how your portray yourself, your fellow country men and the organistions, both public and private that operate in this country.

prinz

alejandro1977 wrote: »

While I'm at it, to those who say "Why didn't you get a PS job in the boom times?" . I have a Degree in Electronic Engineering (and M Eng in Digital Signal Processing- if you know what that is) - what exactly am I supposed to do in the Public Sector that would benefit the country?

There was plenty of jobs going. Clerical officers etc etc. Unless you considered yourself too good/over qualified for that?

In which case I will remind you about all the architects and solicitors queuing to get jobs in McDonald's and Marks and Spencer and the likes....

Stark

prinz wrote: »

There was plenty of jobs going. Clerical officers etc etc. Unless you considered yourself too good/over qualified for that?

Why should he abandon the skills he learned in college (at the taxpayer's expense) when he could do a job that makes use of his qualifications and allows him to contribute towards the country's knowledge economy? Not everyone can work in the public service.

prinz

Stark wrote: »

Why should he abandon the skills he learned in college (at the taxpayer's expense) when he could do a job that makes use of his qualifications and allows him to contribute towards the country's knowledge economy? Not everyone can work in the public service.

I never said he should. However the state doesn't owe him a job... his reason for not joining the public sector was he couldn't get a job up to scratch? Well tough luck then, go take your chance in the private sector. He has as much opportunity as anyone else to get a job in the public sector but made the choice not to. No one else to blame. Like I said jobs were there, and people snubbed them, myself included. I turned down a public job, opted for private. My loss. I am not going to whine about those who took up that job. They don't owe me anything.

Comes down to beggars and choosers. So many people were choosers, and made the wrong choice, now they're beggars. It's just petty bitching for a large part now to turn on the public service i.e. those jobs they snubbed a few years ago.

alejandro1977

prinz wrote: »

There was plenty of jobs going. Clerical officers etc etc. Unless you considered yourself too good/over qualified for that?

In which case I will remind you about all the architects and solicitors queuing to get jobs in McDonald's and Marks and Spencer and the likes....

Was is singular- the word is were.

Yes I was over qualified for those jobs and I still am. You are missing my point; high skilled jobs bring money into the country which goes to pay for the PS.

I still have my job so don't worry -and it's paid better than some low level civil service job; you unwittingly underscore my point by illustrating how little skill and creativity is required for these PS jobs! Clearly the level of logic required for your job isn't so high.

So for now I'll continue to pay the taxes that keep you lot in your paper pushing jobs so you can go up to Newry shopping... (I still can't believe your attitude, imagine wasting a good engineering degree as Clerical Officer, WTF?)

nesf

Less of the petty grammar nazi/personal digs crap like the post above please.

Also, going out of your way to use semi-colons to underline your superior punctuation and grammar is pretentious at best of times even when you aren't throwing digs at other users about their's.

prinz

alejandro1977 wrote: »

So for now I'll continue to pay the taxes that keep you lot in your paper pushing jobs so you can go up to Newry shopping... (I still can't believe your attitude, imagine wasting a good engineering degree as Clerical Officer, WTF?)

I work in the private sector And my point was there *were* jobs going from clerical officers up. I am sure there were some jobs that would have suited your qualifications, it's your bad luck you didn't take them.

As an aside, I have a good law degree. I could have gone down the trainee solictor route - which would have left me on the dole queue by now I imagine. Instead I looked around and saw it couldn't last. I chose to enter a different profession, and in doing so got myself a secure job. So I started from scratch. Perhaps it would be tough for some others to do that, take a job they consider 'below' them or something I don't know.

alejandro1977

nesf wrote: »

Less of the petty grammar nazi/personal digs crap like the post above please.

Also, going out of your way to use semi-colons to underline your superior punctuation and grammar is pretentious at best of times even when you aren't throwing digs at other users about their's.

ehh, apologies for the personal digs, but I hardly consider semi-colons underlining anything. Also, I wasn't going out of my way, that's the way I speak/write - I though it makes things easier to read. The last time I studied English was at Leaving Cert level (Technical Education at 3rd level) so I don't consider my punctuation and grammar to be superior.

alejandro1977

prinz wrote: »

I work in the private sector And my point was there *were* jobs going from clerical officers up. I am sure there were some jobs that would have suited your qualifications, it's your bad luck you didn't take them.

Actually I don't consider it bad luck at all. Again you miss my whole point, which was a retort to those PS workers who continually cry "why didn't you get a PS job in the boom".

Highly qualified people in the research/development area do not have genuine equivalents in the Public Sector. Is that so hard for you to believe? If you are so sure that I could have found a job "that would have suited [my] qualifications" please give examples.

Most fair minded people would believe that society best benefits from my skills in my current job - (do you disagree?). As it is in a sector that is internationally competitive we did not receive the salaries/bonuses of builders/architects/solicitors during the boom years, yet now we are expected to pay high levels of tax for salaries of PS workers which are inflated relative to those in our competitor countries. This is why Boards.ie is full of people who resent the PS.

BTW I don't consider PS jobs beneath me - I did some dirty, low paid, back breaking jobs on my J1/college summers. They simply do not interest me or make proper use of my skills and qualifications . I hope that doesn't sound pretentious.

alejandro1977

prinz wrote: »

I work in the private sector And my point was there *were* jobs going from clerical officers up. I am sure there were some jobs that would have suited your qualifications, it's your bad luck you didn't take them.

As an aside, I have a good law degree. I could have gone down the trainee solictor route - which would have left me on the dole queue by now I imagine. Instead I looked around and saw it couldn't last. I chose to enter a different profession, and in doing so got myself a secure job. So I started from scratch. Perhaps it would be tough for some others to do that, take a job they consider 'below' them or something I don't know.

Good for you, Sir.
As a matter of interest is it in the internationally traded sector (i.e. export related)? Just curious.

prinz

alejandro1977 wrote: »

Actually I don't consider it bad luck at all. Again you miss my whole point, which was a retort to those PS workers who continually cry "why didn't you get a PS job in the boom". .

Yeah. and I am asking...why didn't you? You chose not to.

alejandro1977 wrote: »

Highly qualified people in the research/development area do not have genuine equivalents in the Public Sector. Is that so hard for you to believe?

Yes they do. Personally I am related to a world specialist geneticist who works for the state here. He has lectured in the States and been seconded to Australia and New Zealand to help them out over there. I am sure he could earn top dollar elsewhere.

alejandro1977 wrote: »

Most fair minded people would believe that society best benefits from my skills in my current job - (do you disagree?)..

That depends on what you do.

alejandro1977 wrote: »

As it is in a sector that is internationally competitive we did not receive the salaries/bonuses of builders/architects/solicitors during the boom years, yet now we are expected to pay high levels of tax for salaries of PS workers which are inflated relative to those in our competitor countries..

I agree the wages are inflated and will have to be cut. Much like the wages in most sectors of the pivate business world were. If I had taken the PS job I was going for I would be earning a lot more than I am on now. However that point can be made without the need to resort to lazy slurs against the PS as a whole.

alejandro1977 wrote: »

This is why Boards.ie is full of people who resent the PS.

No, boards is full of people who resent the PS because they need a scapegoat and have all decided to jump on the bandwagon. A month or so ago it was the bankers, developers. Now every second thread is the PS.