Second day of strike action planned for Thursday Dec 3rd

KELTICKNIGHTT

rossithelegend wrote: »

Ok so lets look at some facts here from reading the last number of posts one thing I have noticed is not a lot of people have facts on what there talking about!
1. All public ervice workers are tax payers paying PAYE and PRSI
2. Public service pensions are NOT as gold plated as many think and we have always paid for them. If you look at any public servants payslip you will see under deductions the following.
PRSI
PAYE
Pension Related Deduction (Pension Levy)
Super (Superannuation or Pension Contribution)
Income Levy
I had never even looked at my pension entitlement untill this year (there was no need to as im still under 35) but when the levy came in i thought well lets see how much I'll get tbh I was shocked with the findings as I'd be better off putting my money in a high interest account or an outside scheme. A lot of people also don't realise that the first 12k of any public service pension is made up of your state pension which we are all entitled too. the whole public -vs- pvt sector thing is a load of bull. One needs the other. If public sector workers can't afford to spend cash then private sector business will suffer further job losses will be incurred and further business will close now this will have a kickback on public sector finances as rates will drop as a result. It's about time we all grew a pair and looked at who got us in the mess im refferring to Messers Ahern and Cowen, the amount of money that has been wasted in this Country is criminal 50 million on E-voting which never saw the light of day, the farce that was the port tunnell. Irish people in particular the working class pvt and public have been made to pay for the incompetence of our government which maybe we deserve considering we voted them in (though a lack of real opposition may of had a part to play) This Country has been run in such a way that those who were willing to work and pay there way have been shouldered with the burden of carrying many who weren't. I don't think anyone can argue that a person who has worked in the pvt sector for the last 10 years paying taxes and has recently lost their job should have their dole cut nor would I argue that a public sector worker who is and has been working for the equivalant time have their income squezzed to a point where they can't make ends meet. This Country needs answers not lynch mobs and finger pointing the problem is the Government that is in power does not seem to have them or gives us the wrong ones leading us down even darker corridors. I've worked in both private and public sectors over the last 5 years and both have their perks and problems.

and the private sector hasnt,what ever was promised too ps when times was good is gone,can afford regardless what ever goverment is in,the money isnt there ,its a globel thing a nd not just here,the point is the public sector is costing too much on daily rate and borrowing every week isnt going too last,theres jobs cuts every day in private sector,is there any in public sector that lost there jobs,me thinks not ,not too same as in private,

so you can ask for something thats not there and you cant increase taxes so the public sector get there promise,aint going too happen
public sector should count themselfs lucky too have a job and a pension

prinz

jmayo wrote: »

Why it is a dig, it is reporting a fact ?

How is that a fact? Did they interview every driver stuck in traffic and conclusively find that they were all, or even a majority public sector workers? Did they ask all who were, if they had fulfilled their picketing obligations which in some places were a couple of hours as it was run on a rota? I didn't see either of those being done, did you?

It's a matter of adding 2+2 and coming up with the most populist answer of 3.

Clanrickard

rossithelegend wrote: »

1. All public ervice workers are tax payers paying PAYE and PRSI

The government deducts a sum from the whole amount from their gross pay which comes entirely from the private sector.

2. Public service pensions are NOT as gold plated as many think and we have always paid for them. If you look at any public servants payslip you will see under deductions the following.
PRSI
PAYE
Pension Related Deduction (Pension Levy)
Super (Superannuation or Pension Contribution)
Income Levy

The lump sum from which these deductions are made is from the private sector. Your pensions are paid for entirey by the private sector.

It's about time we all grew a pair and looked at who got us in the mess im refferring to Messers Ahern and Cowen, the amount of money that has been wasted in this Country is criminal 50 million on E-voting which never saw the light of day, the farce that was the port tunnell.

You forgot benchmarking. You also forgot to mention that the social partners had a strong hand in policy making over the last 5 years and key amongst these were union officials. They have contributed handsomely to the mess we are in. Also contributing were higher civil servants who are involved in policy making and advising the government.

How many public sector workers voted consistently for Aherne, Cowan and McGreevy over the last 3 elections? Do they bear some responsibility?

dvpower

rossithelegend wrote: »

Ok so lets look at some facts here from reading the last number of posts one thing I have noticed is not a lot of people have facts on what there talking about!

Ok so, lets have some facts.

rossithelegend wrote: »

1. All public ervice workers are tax payers paying PAYE and PRSI

True. Have people being disputing this? (btw, many older public servants don't pay full PRSI)

rossithelegend wrote: »

2. Public service pensions are NOT as gold plated as many think and we have always paid for them.

You have always part paid for them. The pension contribution you had been paying went nowhere near the real cost of the pension.

rossithelegend wrote: »

I'd be better off putting my money in a high interest account or an outside scheme.

I can't believe you headed your post with the word "Facts"

rossithelegend wrote: »

A lot of people also don't realise that the first 12k of any public service pension is made up of your state pension which we are all entitled too.

That's true enough.

rossithelegend wrote: »

If public sector workers can't afford to spend cash then private sector business will suffer further job losses will be incurred and further business will close now this will have a kickback on public sector finances as rates will drop as a result.

This is the single most annoying agruement I've heard in this whole debate. The old trickle down arguement that Thatcher used to promote in her heyday.

rossithelegend wrote: »

It's about time we all grew a pair and looked at who got us in the mess im refferring to Messers Ahern and Cowen, the amount of money that has been wasted in this Country is criminal 50 million on E-voting which never saw the light of day, the farce that was the port tunnell. Irish people in particular the working class pvt and public have been made to pay for the incompetence of our government which maybe we deserve considering we voted them in (though a lack of real opposition may of had a part to play) This Country has been run in such a way that those who were willing to work and pay there way have been shouldered with the burden of carrying many who weren't.

Wasn't the eVoting project managed by the public service?
Wasn't the Port Tunnel project managed by the public service?

These kinds of wastages tend to happen when the people who run the projects lose touch with the value of money. May I suggest that some of the higher paid public servants going out on strike is another example of this.

Anyway, this is all very interesting, but, as we know, the question of who did it and the question of who is going to pay for it are two different questions.

rossithelegend wrote: »

I don't think anyone can argue that a person who has worked in the pvt sector for the last 10 years paying taxes and has recently lost their job should have their dole cut nor would I argue that a public sector worker who is and has been working for the equivalant time have their income squezzed to a point where they can't make ends meet.

Are you seriously trying to draw a comparison between the pain felt by someone who has lost their job with that of a public servant who has to take a paycut (and who cannot lose their job).?
Btw, I agree that a person who is recently unemployed should not have a cut in dole.

timmmy

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

YOU AND YOUR FELLOW PS WORKERS want too wake up,the beeps wherent supporting you ,just laughing at you ,i know :D
very few support you but glad your taking day off as it saves the country few euros:)

Have you anything to add to the debate beyond repeatedly telling people to 'wake up'? I'm fully awake. In relation to beeping, I was on a picket and I know what I saw. I saw great support. Hopefully, we'll see some progress from the negotiations over the weekend but if not I'll be out again next week.

You are correct in one thing, though I suspect it is only because of a typographical error. My taking a day off 'saves the country few euros' indeed.

gally74

as far as im concered they can go on strike one day every week, would save the tax payer

70 million by 52, great!

in fact some groups could even go for 2 days a week!

KELTICKNIGHTT

timmmy wrote: »

Have you anything to add to the debate beyond repeatedly telling people to 'wake up'? I'm fully awake. In relation to beeping, I was on a picket and I know what I saw. I saw great support. Hopefully, we'll see some progress from the negotiations over the weekend but if not I'll be out again next week.

You are correct in one thing, though I suspect it is only because of a typographical error. My taking a day off 'saves the country few euros' indeed.

beleive what you like about your so called support as im sure its very little from private as anyone that have talked about it say the same ,the public sector get too much and about time there was cuts
i for one hope the goverment do waht they said they do in cuts as its need,as far as you public sector waking up ,probly wont ever happen as your in dreamland

timmmy

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

i for one hope the goverment do waht they said they do in cuts as its need,as far as you public sector waking up ,probly wont ever happen as your in dreamland

Well, I would agree with you on that. I'd love to see the Government do what they said they would but they never cease to disappoint.

Again, if possible, could you lessen your references to 'waking up' and 'dreamland' and other sleep related activities. It's repetitive and tedious. Unless you can make just one post without saying the same old thing again then I regret to say that I see little point interacting with you. Go on, surprise me!

sceptre

Less of the personal swipes, less digs, more coherency and more politeness towards fellow forum members please. This is a discussion forum, not a "hey you, you're the one ruining the country, bad cess to ya" forum. Thank you kindly.

/mod

KELTICKNIGHTT

timmmy wrote: »

Well, I would agree with you on that. I'd love to see the Government do what they said they would but they never cease to disappoint.

Again, if possible, could you lessen your references to 'waking up' and 'dreamland' and other sleep related activities. It's repetitive and tedious. Unless you can make just one post without saying the same old thing again then I regret to say that I see little point interacting with you. Go on, surprise me!

timmy,i couldnt care less what you think about when i say wake up public sector as i can see you lot never will too the facts,you will have too take cut and maybe lose jobs in future

peopel in private sector dont care about the public sector as public sector costs too much and the goverment has too borrow too much and you lot want more ,dont think so,seems you only here to talk about as your have only post about the public sector threads,,what a surprise

so do everyone a favour and take one day off every week as it will save the country money

timmmy

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

timmy,i couldnt care less what you think about when i say wake up public sector

As I'm sure you're aware, this is the politics forum and - as sceptre mentioned - there are standards to which we should aspire. Lord knows there are sufficient political issues to discuss at the moment. NAMA, failed banks, 'cozy cartels', millionaire retirees from private and public sectors who should likely be in jail, bankrupt developers, and - indeed - the type, size and scale of the public service we as a nation want and can afford given our changed financial circumstances. I only asked that you cease repeating 'wake up' as some sort of mantra and engage in the specifics. It appears that you cannot do that and I just don't see any point in continuing to reply to you.

Fighting Irish

sceptre wrote: »

Less of the personal swipes, less digs, more coherency and more politeness towards fellow forum members please. This is a discussion forum, not a "hey you, you're the one ruining the country, bad cess to ya" forum. Thank you kindly.

/mod

well said, we're all blaming each other when we all know deep down that it's Pat Kennys fault, sure he makes more money than Obama :pac:

btw does anyone know why people compare Pats wage to the president of the US instead of comparing it to one of the top radio DJs/TV presenters in the US?

but..but..but he gets more money than Obama!!!!!!11

KELTICKNIGHTT

timmmy wrote: »

As I'm sure you're aware, this is the politics forum and - as sceptre mentioned - there are standards to which we should aspire. Lord knows there are sufficient political issues to discuss at the moment. NAMA, failed banks, 'cozy cartels', millionaire retirees from private and public sectors who should likely be in jail, bankrupt developers, and - indeed - the type, size and scale of the public service we as a nation want and can afford given our changed financial circumstances. I only asked that you cease repeating 'wake up' as some sort of mantra and engage in the specifics. It appears that you cannot do that and I just don't see any point in continuing to reply to you.

at you can only repeat only one thing i said and skipped everything else ,tells me alot,the country can afford the size and the amount the public service costs now specialy now ,everyone knows this except the public sector which is no surprise ,the sooner the public sector cuts come in the better

jmayo

prinz wrote: »

How is that a fact? Did they interview every driver stuck in traffic and conclusively find that they were all, or even a majority public sector workers? Did they ask all who were, if they had fulfilled their picketing obligations which in some places were a couple of hours as it was run on a rota? I didn't see either of those being done, did you?

It's a matter of adding 2+2 and coming up with the most populist answer of 3.

It is a fact that the traffic volumes had increased hugely from other weekdays.
I didn't say it was fact that they were all public sector workers.
My post was in reference to someone saying it was a dig at public sector workers whereas I said they were only reporting the FACT that traffic had increased drastically.
It is that not a fact or not ?
Did RTE or anyone else say they were all public sector workers ?
Did I ?

But if you read the rest of my post I surmise that they were probably a majority of public sector workers, rather than private sector workers who took a day off becuase their kids were off school or unemployed people.

BTW if I could get 2+2 to equal 3 then I would be in Dept of Finance, one of the fine public sector departments that have us in this mess along with their political overseers :rolleyes:

prinz

jmayo wrote: »

It is a fact that the traffic volumes had increased hugely from other weekdays.
I didn't say it was fact that they were all public sector workers.
My post was in reference to someone saying it was a dig at public sector workers whereas I said they were only reporting the FACT that traffic had increased drastically.
It is that not a fact or not ?
Did RTE or anyone else say they were all public sector workers ?
Did I ?

Which was why I said the traffic was a fact.. but they didn't just report on the traffic, they went on to associate the traffic with the strike.. with no evidence whatsoever other than coincidence. That is a dig.

jmayo

prinz wrote: »

Which was why I said the traffic was a fact.. but they didn't just report on the traffic, they went on to associate the traffic with the strike.. with no evidence whatsoever other than coincidence. That is a dig.

Did they suggest it was all public sector workers ?

It was big coincidence you have to say, anyway we will see next week if there is a repeat

old boy

jmayo wrote: »

Did they suggest it was all public sector workers ?

It was big coincidence you have to say, anyway we will see next week if there is a repeat

with two days without pay how can they be expected to travel, will they not all be broke?.

Fighting Irish

So is this strike defo going ahead?

K4t

We'll know for sure sometime on monday.^

peanuthead

hope it does go ahead, I need to catch up on college work.

Fighting Irish

peanuthead wrote: »

hope it does go ahead, I need to catch up on college work.

dawt

ninty9er

peanuthead wrote: »

hope it does go ahead, I need to catch up on college work.

Not if you're in UL, study week anyway

Notice to Staff

As you are aware Public Service Unions have indicated that there will be widespread industrial action on Thursday, December 3rd. This is a national dispute and is not directed at any particular employer. UNITE members in UL voted against participating in the proposed Strike Day in a ballot carried out on Wednesday, November 25th. The Union has informed UL Management that there will be no industrial action at UL on Thursday, December 3rd. Accordingly it is anticipated that there will be no disruption to the normal operation of the University on the 3rd.

Fair play considering gross pay cuts are on the way.

Farolina81

Anyone know what the story is for Thursday? I voted against strike action when the INTO balloted, yet I've no choice

Farolina81

Children are being hit from all angles: by the government for cutting teachers, reducing money being given to schools etc., by parents losing jobs and now by schools with teachers going on strike

Sizzler

Mo Flynn was on the radio this morning and you could tell how appalled she was by last Tuesday's action. She said there was 40 picketers outside the hospice for the entire day making a racket(I thought industrial relations laws stated a maximum of 6 ). Family members were going to visit relatives who had passed away that day and had to cross this picket, absolute disgrace imho. Begg hasnt even had the decency to respond to this.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hospice-patients-very-distressed-by-picket-1958621.html

wrote:

PICKETS on a hospice caused distress to seriously ill patients during the public sector day of protest last Tuesday, it emerged last night.

The chief executive of Our Lady's Hospice in Harold's Cross, Dublin, Mo Flynn, has written to ICTU boss David Begg to highlight how the pickets upset seriously ill people.

Ms Flynn said it was "a sad state of affairs" when trade unions, which claim to assist the weak and vulnerable, should cause such distress to the families of the sick who are cared for in the hospice. And she pleaded with the union chief to make sure hospices were exempt from these actions in the future.

Ms Flynn added that she wanted to make it very clear that her criticisms were of the unions and not of any of the staff at the hospice.

"The hospice was extraordinarily lucky to have an extremely dedicated staff who had done their best to provide optimum care for patients during the industrial action," she added in her letter to Mr Begg.

She said it was the perception of the hospice that a national agreement had been reached to protect palliative and care-of-the-elderly services during this industrial action.

"Regrettably, members of the IMPACT and SIPTU unions impeded access to our care facilities and their industrial action led to the closure of our community reablement, pharmacy and therapy services alongside seriously curtailing our ability to care for our remaining patients.

Concern

"Of greatest concern was the behaviour of the official union picket in relation to the failure to acknowledge the impact on the relatives of four patients who had died in our care. Relatives were deprived of essential supports and facilities."

She added that despite the best efforts of the strike committee and all staff who did not engage in the dispute, the picket was viewed by many on the day as intimidating for distressed relatives.

Ms Flynn praised the members of two unions, the Irish Nurses Organisation and the Irish Medical Organisation, who continued to provide care.

She added: "I am asking you to use your influence on the leaderships of IMPACT and SIPTU to ensure there is no repeat of the obstruction by picket groups next Thursday when they are engaging in further industrial action.

"It is a sad state of affairs that trades unions, which profess to assis the weak and vulnerable, should cause such distress to the families of seriously ill people whom we look after."

irish_bob

heard a story from a reliable source about how a girl was leaving her boyfriend into UCD last tuesday , on her way in , a mob of strikers blocked her entrance and began kicking her car and spitting on her windscreen whie roaring abuse , SCUM

Fighting Irish

irish_bob wrote: »

heard a story from a reliable source about how a girl was leaving her boyfriend into UCD last tuesday , on her way in , a mob of strikers blocked her entrance and began kicking her car and spitting on her windscreen whie roaring abuse , SCUM

And you believe this?

Dozen Wicked Words

irish_bob wrote: »

heard a story from a reliable source about how a girl was leaving her boyfriend into UCD last tuesday , on her way in , a mob of strikers blocked her entrance and began kicking her car and spitting on her windscreen whie roaring abuse , SCUM

Irish_bob, no matter how much I disagree with you, your posts usually have some basis of fact, this is utter drivel, and does nothing for your credibility.

So now we are allowed to post "a friend of a friend" , or "I know this bloke who....." bullsh*t are we?

K4t

irish_bob wrote: »

heard a story from a reliable source about how a girl was leaving her boyfriend into UCD last tuesday , on her way in , a mob of strikers blocked her entrance and began kicking her car and spitting on her windscreen whie roaring abuse , SCUM

I stopped reading when I saw your username.

Farolina81

Just got a text from INTO rep saying that strike is going ahead