Next public sector strike confirmed for 3rd December...

Idbatterim

my point is if they are thinking they are holding us to ransome and that we are quaking with fear, they must be dillusional! Everyone can see how self serving they are! the lying throught their teeth angers me the most though! were doing it for the kids or the sick or the elderly! ha ha!

shapez

Idbatterim wrote: »

my point is if they are thinking they are holding us to ransome and that we are quaking with fear, they must be dillusional! Everyone can see how self serving they are! the lying throught their teeth angers me the most though! were doing it for the kids or the sick or the elderly! ha ha!

Who's "they" exactly? The Unions or public sector workers. Because you can be sure that not every public sector worker is a member of a union or may not have wanted to go on strike.

Those of the general public that are living way beyond their means, taking out massive loans and mortgages over the past 10 years. When they are unable to pay it all back, who do you think has to foot the bill? Their very own flesh and blood, the kids. :rolleyes:

shapez

ei.sdraob wrote: »

i pay a nice bit for private healthcare

alot more efficient and well worth it in case of emergencies

I pay for private healthcare also. Do you see the costs of it decreasing at the moment or anytime soon? :rolleyes:

ei.sdraob

shapez wrote: »

I pay for private healthcare also. Do you see the costs of it decreasing at the moment or anytime soon? :rolleyes:

its worth every cent if it means i dont have to step into a public hospital

anyways itll get cheaper of public healthcare gets cheaper

simple economics really

Dozen Wicked Words

ei.sdraob wrote: »

its worth every cent if it means i dont have to step into a public hospital

anyways itll get cheaper of public healthcare gets cheaper

simple economics really

Health Economics are not simple, Even with cuts in wage bill, Healthcare NEVER gets cheaper, every year new drugs, treatments and dressings come out which make you live that bit longer, but cost that bit more.

Incidentally, I would imagine one of the ways the HSE will attempt to make up money is to charge Private Health Insurance companies more money for the use of their beds (so you can share a four bedded with other privately insured patients on a public ward)

97i9y3941

god sake,what are they going to get out of it?,nothing,why dont they swap places with loads of unfortante people on the dole if they want to feel how poor they are,really tho i mean just,no sense of it all

seangal

ei.sdraob wrote: »

i pay a nice bit for private healthcare

alot more efficient and well worth it in case of emergencies

u should remember that you are luck to be able to pay for private healthcare as a lot in ireland can't and with the way rates are going up a lot more will not be able to pay for it

ei.sdraob

seangal wrote: »

u should remember that you are luck to be able to pay for private healthcare as a lot in ireland can't and with the way rates are going up a lot more will not be able to pay for it

then switch to a model like Netherlands

it costs them a third less than Ireland per head population and they have the worlds best health service

seriously stop acting as if theres no solutions, there are solutions, just the unions wont like them since shortsightedness is all they care for

seangal

ei.sdraob wrote: »

its worth every cent if it means i dont have to step into a public hospital

anyways itll get cheaper of public healthcare gets cheaper

simple economics really

so u think we are going to see it come down?
when ????????
quinn is putting it up 15% next year

ei.sdraob

seangal wrote: »

so u think we are going to see it come down?
when ????????
quinn is putting it up 15% next year

see post above yours

when the unions take the plug out of their behinds

Paulzx

ei.sdraob wrote: »

i pay a nice bit for private healthcare

alot more efficient and well worth it in case of emergencies

I'd like to see you try and use a private clinic/hospital for a real medical emergency. No problem for an x ray for sprains, fractures, or for investigating on going medical complaints.However if you have serious trauma or urgent medical complaints forget about it.

Some very well known private hospitals on the southside of Dublin which have walk in "A an E's" have a regular stream of 999 emergency ambulances arriving at their door. Is this to bring patients to them? Not on your nelly it isnt. If you walk in there with chest pain suffering from a possible MI what happens? Well you'll obviously pay a bill after seeing a doctor and then they'll diall 999 for an emergency ambulance( which they won't have to pay for) and pack you off to the nearest public A and E where you will receive the appropriate treatment.

There is no doubt private medical facilities are excellent at providing schedualed medical care efficiently. However for proper emergencies the public hospital syatem is the only and best game in town. I presume the cost factors involved means the private sector won't provide these services.

I too have health insurance but when you get smacked by a truck on the rathmines road i'd like to see you try and use it

old boy

ei.sdraob wrote: »

its worth every cent if it means i dont have to step into a public hospital

anyways itll get cheaper of public healthcare gets cheaper

simple economics really

i have a medical card, but when the schit hits the fan i pay cash, i can meet a specialist within three weeks of a referal, have tests done in hospital in two more, no qs etc, if i use the card i guess eight to twelve months of a wait , the disease spreads, less chance of a cure, i prefer to let a loan from the credit union for medical expenses, than my family getting one to bay for burial expenses, and funnily enough the specialists private staff are i.m.o. better mannered than their counterparts in the p.s.

Darragh29

Paulzx wrote: »

I'd like to see you try and use a private clinic/hospital for a real medical emergency. No problem for an x ray for sprains, fractures, or for investigating on going medical complaints.However if you have serious trauma or urgent medical complaints forget about it.

Some very well known private hospitals on the southside of Dublin which have walk in "A an E's" have a regular stream of 999 emergency ambulances arriving at their door. Is this to bring patients to them? Not on your nelly it isnt. If you walk in there with chest pain suffering from a possible MI what happens? Well you'll obviously pay a bill after seeing a doctor and then they'll diall 999 for an emergency ambulance( which they won't have to pay for) and pack you off to the nearest public A and E where you will receive the appropriate treatment.

There is no doubt private medical facilities are excellent at providing schedualed medical care efficiently. However for proper emergencies the public hospital syatem is the only and best game in town. I presume the cost factors involved means the private sector won't provide these services.

I too have health insurance but when you get smacked by a truck on the rathmines road i'd like to see you try and use it

+1. I had to rush my Dad to St. James hospital a few short years ago with an Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm, this is up there with a brain haemorrhage or a massive heart attack. Usually you drop dead from this but he was one of the rare cases that had a 30 minute window where he could be operated on...

I brought/carried him into St. James A & E, he was triaged within a few minutes, was getting life saving surgery within 10 minutes of being asssessed by a nurse.

He spent a month in ICU and made a full recovery, so I wouldn't knock the system, the biggest problem I saw with A & E on that day was the amount of junkie wasters and sh*theads hanging around the waiting room who had nothing better to do with their time. And you can put up the cost of attending an A & E all you want, the people who are a burden on the system and are too lazy to go to their GP, the junkies, they have a medical card so they are insulated from the cost increases that are designed to keep A & E open for people with real emergencies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdominal_aortic_aneurysm

Paulzx

Darragh29 wrote: »

+1. I had to rush my Dad to St. James hospital a few short years ago with an Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm, this is up there with a brain haemorrhage or a massive heart attack. Usually you drop dead from this but he was one of the rare cases that had a 30 minute window where he could be operated on...

I brought/carried him into St. James A & E, he was triaged within a few minutes, was getting life saving surgery within 10 minutes of being asssessed by a nurse.

He spent a month in ICU and made a full recovery, so I wouldn't knock the system, the biggest problem I saw with A & E on that day was the amount of junkie wasters and sh*theads hanging around the waiting room who had nothing better to do with their time. And you can put up the cost of attending an A & E all you want, the people who are a burden on the system and are too lazy to go to their GP, the junkies, they have a medical card so they are insulated from the cost increases that are designed to keep A & E open for people with real emergencies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdominal_aortic_aneurysm

He's a lucky man to survive a tripal A. Thats exactly the type of scenario i was trying to explain.

If the public A and e's didnt have to deal witht he timewasters they would be much more efficient. However, unlike the private clinics they have to deal with everyone and use up valuable resources on people that don't need to be there.

siochan84

medicman2009 wrote: »

The private sector has been decimated by the recession, there should be thousands layed off in the public sector (except front line staff )and a 10% pay cut imposed on anyone earning over €40,000 Euro. The fat cats should have a 20%-25% pay cut imposed and that's the ones who haven't been sacked. So how dare those strike who have nothing to strike about, any man or woman laid off in the private sector would gladly except one of the many 'cosy' jobs available in the public sector. How about the big union bosses taking a pay cut of 25% from €135,000 = €101,250, ''Christ'' how would they manage.

I'm a public sector worker in the lower pay scale bracket and agree with most of above because it's fair. Although if people are let go from their jobs won't that just mean more dole money to pay out? Everything to raise money should be considered, taxes should be raised not by much but definitely raised for the time being, VAT could be reduced and some public sector workers could definitely afford a pay cut, just not people like myself who are on the lower pay scale. Take from the people who can afford to take a pay cut, end of.:mad:

ei.sdraob

siochan84 wrote: »

Although if people are let go from their jobs won't that just mean more dole money to pay out?

what costs more paying someone 10-20K in benefits or 60K in salary?

Paulzx

ei.sdraob wrote: »

what costs more paying someone 10-20K in benefits or 60K in salary?

From recent studies done if they have a couple of kids they'll be getting 40k in benifets

ei.sdraob

Paulzx wrote: »

From recent studies done if they have a couple of kids they'll be getting 40k in benifets

yeh like that family in ennis

murphaph

Darragh29 wrote: »

+1. I had to rush my Dad to St. James hospital a few short years ago with an Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm, this is up there with a brain haemorrhage or a massive heart attack. Usually you drop dead from this but he was one of the rare cases that had a 30 minute window where he could be operated on...

I brought/carried him into St. James A & E, he was triaged within a few minutes, was getting life saving surgery within 10 minutes of being asssessed by a nurse.

He spent a month in ICU and made a full recovery, so I wouldn't knock the system, the biggest problem I saw with A & E on that day was the amount of junkie wasters and sh*theads hanging around the waiting room who had nothing better to do with their time. And you can put up the cost of attending an A & E all you want, the people who are a burden on the system and are too lazy to go to their GP, the junkies, they have a medical card so they are insulated from the cost increases that are designed to keep A & E open for people with real emergencies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdominal_aortic_aneurysm

Unfortunately my own father did not survive this exact same thing in jan 2008. He (unusually) presented symptoms and was seen by his GP a few days before he died from it. I cannot help but feel that in a more integrated, better functioning healthcare system (like say, the Netherlands), that my dad might have seen a specialist (as would be the case here in Germany-people simply bypass the 'GP' (they don't really exist-most docs specialise in some area of the body) and make an appointment with a specialist if they want to). I would like to see the Dutch model introduced in ireland asap. We overpay our medical staff compared to BETTER healthcare systems in Europe and if the money wasn't going on wages and stupid duplication of administration (something the HSE was supposed to address with the amalgamation of the Health Boards) then it could perhaps be spent on patient care and perhaps screening for AAA for men aged over 60 in the high risk group (or some other screening for curable conditions).

Paulzx

Unfortunately this is a life or death condition. Nothing can be done in a Gp surgery. Instant diagnosis in a major hospital environment is the only answer. I have never yet dealt with a triple A that was not fatal.

There are probably doctors on here that might dispute this but as a paramedic i have yet to get one that wasn't fatal. From my limited knowledge this is a serious emergency condition and needs instant emergency care i.e an A and E.

Sympathies on what happened your father.

doc_17

Darragh29 wrote: »

I think the mandate sought was for general and open-ended industrial action for as long as there is no agreement between the unions and the government.

It is absolutely fu*king revolting, seeing Peter Mc Loone, a man who resigned in disgrace as chairman of the FAS board, who is paid a trophy salary himself, well over 100K, threatening the government and the rest of us, as to the consequences of not complying with his and his members wishes.

If he stood over such imcompetence in a similar private sector position, as he presided over while chairman of the FAS board, he would have been arrested and questioned on suspicion of fraud and misappropriation...

Last week you published a similiar comment about being arrested and questioned if he were in th private sector and I asked you the following question " give me one example of anyone in the private sector who has been arrested for poor corporate governance in the past year despite all that we have seen and been subjected to" yet here you are again saying the same thing. back it up or stop saying please.

doc_17

Darragh29 wrote: »

I think the mandate sought was for general and open-ended industrial action for as long as there is no agreement between the unions and the government.

It is absolutely fu*king revolting, seeing Peter Mc Loone, a man who resigned in disgrace as chairman of the FAS board, who is paid a trophy salary himself, well over 100K, threatening the government and the rest of us, as to the consequences of not complying with his and his members wishes.

If he stood over such imcompetence in a similar private sector position, as he presided over while chairman of the FAS board, he would have been arrested and questioned on suspicion of fraud and misappropriation...

you made a similiar comment last week about people being arrested in the private sector. give an example please of someone who has being arrested from the private sector for poor corporate governance. I did ask you this question after your post but you did not answer. yet you repeat the allegation.

oh, and the mandate is different from different unions.

murphaph

Paulzx wrote: »

Unfortunately this is a life or death condition. Nothing can be done in a Gp surgery. Instant diagnosis in a major hospital environment is the only answer. I have never yet dealt with a triple A that was not fatal.

There are probably doctors on here that might dispute this but as a paramedic i have yet to get one that wasn't fatal. From my limited knowledge this is a serious emergency condition and needs instant emergency care i.e an A and E.

Sympathies on what happened your father.

Thanks Paul.

I was actually saying that my dad (unusually) had the symptoms described on the wiki page for about 2 weeks before he died but they were mistaken for an ulcer IIRC. He saw his GP but was not referred on. I'm not blaming the GP btw, in case it sounds like that-he was always a good doctor to our family but he was not a specialist and may never have seen this condition. The system however should have spotted a 66 year old man (a smoker) with these symptoms and in a better system I believe it could and would have been spotted.

Here in Germany you don't have to even go to a hospital to have the necessary scans-they are done by a radiographer etc. working in the community and the data can be sent to a few relevant specialists instantly. Technology is much more prevalent here in medicine-everyone has a smart card which they present when visiting any doctor and it allows the doctor to see your complete medical history. You can go to any doctor you choose and it costs €10 per quarter. Medical insurance is compulsory.

I believe massive amounts of money have been pumped into the Irish system with little improvement for the patient in real terms. Others may disagree but I can state categorically that I would rather become seriously ill here than in Ireland. Touch wood it won't happen of course. Consultants in Irish hospitals are on silly money. 4 consultants can cost a million Euro a year! The wages have to be cut in line with Europe and to those that scream that if wages are reduced, everyone in the HSE will emigrate, I say; Why haven't all the doctors in Scandinavia or Germany done the same? Or even the UK? The cost of living isn't that much higher in Ireland and it's falling rapidly anyway.

erictheviking

A 1 day strike is no use at all. The govt. are probably rubbing their hands at all the money saved. They know workers will catch up with work from the strike day. Any strike should be for at least a week.

sdanseo

erictheviking wrote: »

A 1 day strike is no use at all. The govt. are probably rubbing their hands at all the money saved. They know workers will catch up with work from the strike day. Any strike should be for at least a week.

If you can afford to go without a week's pay, fair fúcks to you. I know I couldn't and I have no family to support and only a couple of regular bills.

Public servants need to work to rule, not strike. Be clever about it.

Darragh29

murphaph wrote: »

Unfortunately my own father did not survive this exact same thing in jan 2008. He (unusually) presented symptoms and was seen by his GP a few days before he died from it. I cannot help but feel that in a more integrated, better functioning healthcare system (like say, the Netherlands), that my dad might have seen a specialist (as would be the case here in Germany-people simply bypass the 'GP' (they don't really exist-most docs specialise in some area of the body) and make an appointment with a specialist if they want to). I would like to see the Dutch model introduced in ireland asap. We overpay our medical staff compared to BETTER healthcare systems in Europe and if the money wasn't going on wages and stupid duplication of administration (something the HSE was supposed to address with the amalgamation of the Health Boards) then it could perhaps be spent on patient care and perhaps screening for AAA for men aged over 60 in the high risk group (or some other screening for curable conditions).

My condolences on the loss of your Dad murphaph. You have a very valid point here, for example, an AAA can be detected by a simple chest x-ray and can be completely treated electively, it isn't even a huge operation if it is detected, the risk of death only arises when it isn't detected and you start having massive internal bleeding when it ruptures.

Just like your own Dad, my Dad was feeling unwell a week before this happened him and he went down to his GP for a check up and was given a clean bill of health. One week later, he was in a coma ICU with a 30-40% chance of survival.

I had to ask how he had been given a clean bill of health a week previous, but then I had the A & E surgeon up in St. James telling me and my brothers that we are also in an "at risk" group because they reckon this condition can be inherited.

Like it's 2009 and you would think that a GP's surgery would have some sort of capability to use technology such as x-ray technology (I think the x-ray machines are around a hundred years at this stage), but as we know, they don't, they just refer to you A & E or else to another hospital department. If you look at the amount of equipment and technology that you are likely to see in a GP's surgery, you'd see more technology in your own living room...

The whole system outside of the A & E department seems to lack vision and a commitment to improve, to take up technology and to improve the level of service for the patient.

You can see the consequences now, people dying unnecessarily because health defects are mainly treated post-empetively and not in a pre-emptive manner. Imagine a health service where you could go for a full health screening every 5 years, chest x-rays (they are introducing these in the UK now for males over 50 due to the sheer number of AAA deaths).

I mean we can NCT a f*cking car every 3 years and use the latest technology to do that, all for 50 Euro?!?!?!?!?

murphaph

Exactly-an average docs surgery here has a load more technology in it and it's all linked up to a central database with all your medical history on it. Doctors can easily exchange diagnostic imaging with one another over the internet and it's commonplace. Ireland and her people really get exceptionally poor value for money out of the health service. Money is wasted all over the place INCLUDING in overpaying our frontline medical staff in relation to their counterparts who work in BETTER healthcare systems throughout Europe. When Polish workers in Ireland prefer to go home for treatment rather than rely on the HSE (this is quite common) then you have to ask yourself what the hell has gone wrong?! Irish people are not demanding enough.

NightOwl91

Thats the day my history and maths xmas exam is on !! *jumps in air*
extra time to study!! wooooo:rolleyes:

Mrs Fanning

Why, why, why does it feel that the whole Private Sector in this country is picking on the Civil / Public Service?????
We did not start this recession - yes people, it is world-wide!!!!!!
Ok, I can see where some blame us, (by the way, yes, I am a Civil Servant), pay rises, benchmarking etc., but were those of you who work in the Private Sector not privy to the same......??????
We, like any employee have the same bills to pay, feed our children, pay rent or mortgages, ESB, Gas, etc?!?!?!?
Unfortunately though, our bosses - the Government - so often get to hide behind ourselves! If something is not being done, the general worker in the Department, gets the blame, rather than pointing the finger at the management - who are the ones making the ultimate decisions.
In reality, and what's needed is a severe reality check, the so called 'fat cats' are the ones who need to be called upon to answer for Irelands economic climate!!!!
Yet another strike is planned for this Thursday - hey, the government will save on that days wage bill! Maybe that's the plan!?!?!?!? To get the unions to continuously call for strike action???? Who knows - they do!!!!
But is all honesty, cutting the Civil Service pay bill - be it by means of a reduced working week across the board, or this 'amazing plan' to force us to take between 10 and 14 days unpaid leave per year????? Will Social Welfare pay me for those days - no way! I wouldnt be eligible! But my kids still need their dinners everyday, bills etc have to be paid.....you know what I mean!
But I dont hear anything about the Government or other members of the Dail or Seanad being forced to hand back any of their wages or allowances????? that would really balance up the books!!!! Yes, there are some represestatives up in Dublin who do actually work for their constituencies, but on an average day (anyone who watches Oireachtas Report - if its still on the air will know) there are only a handfull of people in the Dail chamber! Ok, they could say they're at home - working - PROVE IT! Prove that you're earning your wage, if not give it back to the state so that Social Welfare does not have to be cut, that SW Christmas Bonuses get paid (god knows, for anyone on the dole, this is a life line at this time of year), Civil Servants wont be forced to take unpaid leave, and Private Sector companies, local businesses and industry's could get grants to help pick them back up! retrain people that cant get their jobs back so at least they have a qualification to try something else, rather than relying on the state for the rest of their lives!
I myself feel I have done my bit! I'm lucky, my husband is in a job that is growing from strength to strength, but that could change at any time, but for the time being we're ok! So, when in the mini budget earlier this year, the Incentive Career Break Scheme was announced, I went for it! Unfortunately with 4 children we couldn't afford to take a loss of a wage, but through this scheme we can just about make ends meet, and 2/3rds of my annual wage have been 'gifted' to the Minister for Finance. Ok, it balances out with what I'd have been paying for childcare, but this way, there is money coming in every quarter, and I've at home during the day with my one year old (the other kids are in school).
So, ultimately, to those in the Private Sector who continue to harp on at the CS - please stop! We are just like you, we're not looking for sympathy, but if the government gets away with implementing plans without actually asking us what we want, where will it stop....at the front door to the Private Sector???? Would it surprise you!?