Peter Mc Loone, Public Enemy Number One...

Darragh29

This guy seems to be behind the whole strike effort at the moment, how can a guy who has to resign from a state board in disgrace, now be cheerleading people agitating workers into pulling the country down into further debt???

Nobody elected Peter Mc Loone to run the country or dictate public policy, if he wants to create jobs, he should do what the rest of us have to do and go down to the CRO and start a company up and risk his own money and take all the hardship and difficulty that comes with that decision...

If you don't like the terms and conditions of your employment, it's a free market, LEAVE YOUR JOB!!!

imme

You do understand that the man is a union leader, don't you? What are you trying to get at with this thread? The term Public Enemy is generally applied to someone who is infamous, a gangster or a murderer or the like.

irish_bob

while they have committed no crime , such is thier narrow dogmatic idealogy , the unions must be ruthlessly confronted and weakened for the country to emerge properley from this crisis , luckily for the likes of mcloone and o connor , we have a gutless wonder in charge of the country

Darragh29

I understand he is a union leader but he is an extremely intrasigent one at that and seems to have blinkers on. He speask for a minority of workers in the state, he has no mandate to force a government to do anything. Let him put himself forward for election if he wants to run the country, and if he wants to create jobs, let him start up a business and see how far he gets when he starts off paying his staff the salaries that his members and more importantly himself, are on.

imme

irish_bob wrote: »

while they have committed no crime , such is thier narrow dogmatic idealogy , the unions must be ruthlessly confronted and weakened for the country to emerge properley from this crisis , luckily for the likes of mcloone and o connor , we have a gutless wonder in charge of the country

Sounds like you have him in your sights I-Bob. Oh, if only it was business as usual, like the Celtic Tiger days, nothing could touch us then, we were GODS and GODDESSES, each and every one of us, we were golden. Never mind the greed, unattainable home prices, ugly nature of what some of us became.
Those damn pesky evil unions eh?

I'm a realistic enough type of person in general, BUT can't accept that our current situation is the fault of the unions.

bad2dabone

imme wrote: »

I'm a realistic enough type of person in general, BUT can't accept that our current situation is the fault of the unions.

no its not their fault but they're hardly improving things are they?

Darragh29

imme wrote: »

Sounds like you have him in your sights I-Bob. Oh, if only it was business as usual, like the Celtic Tiger days, nothing could touch us then, we were GODS and GODDESSES, each and every one of us, we were golden. Never mind the greed, unattainable home prices, ugly nature of what some of us became.
Those damn pesky evil unions eh?

I'm a realistic enough type of person in general, BUT can't accept that our current situation is the fault of the unions.

The unions were the very people with their snouts in the public trough that was benchmarking. Even Senator Joe O' Toole, a union man to his bones, said the benchmarking process was, "an ATM machine for public servants"...

Peter Mc Loone, 100K plus salary and resigned from a state board in disgrace.

Jack O Connor, another lad on a 100K plus trophy salary, if those are not Celtic Tiger, "snout in the trough" salaries, I don't know what is...

Kristopherus

OP Get off your high horse about Peter McLoone. He is one of the most respected trade unionists in this fair land.He is leading the biggest public service union and has to face a useless government whose representatives would not even reply to any of the union side's suggestions in their so-called negotiations over the past 6 months. Eventually they (Gov) came up with a few aspirations last Friday evening. McLoone and the public service unions are trying to talk to the Gov side on these flimsy grounds and make an honest effort to sort out the impasse.

imme

Darragh29 wrote: »

I understand he is a union leader but he is an extremely intrasigent one at that and seems to have blinkers on. He speask for a minority of workers in the state, he has no mandate to force a government to do anything. Let him put himself forward for election if he wants to run the country, and if he wants to create jobs, let him start up a business and see how far he gets when he starts off paying his staff the salaries that his members and more importantly himself, are on.

You don't seem to understand what unions are for, what they do.
McLoone was reported a few weeks ago as having sent a report to senior Imapct union staff (his own union) that Impact understood the need for pay cuts in the PS if it meant no job losses. He seems quite a realistic union leader.

imme

Darragh29 wrote: »

The unions were the very people with their snouts in the public trough that was benchmarking. Even Senator Joe O' Toole, a union man to his bones, said the benchmarking process was, "an ATM machine for public servants"...

Peter Mc Loone, 100K plus salary and resigned from a state board in disgrace.

Jack O Connor, another lad on a 100K plus trophy salary, if those are not Celtic Tiger, "snout in the trough" salaries, I don't know what is...

snouts in the public trough, why the pig analogy? are you talking about humans or pigs? I didn't understand Benchmarking at the time and said this at the time. I agree that the salaries of senior union leaders seem ott.
Did the entire board of FÁS resign or was it just McLoone, as seem to be saying. As far as I remember the entire board resigned, including McLoone. This was in the light of the crazy Roddy Molloy fiasco.

Wheety

How many threads do you start about the Public Service and the current strike action?

Obsessed much?

imme

Wheety wrote: »

How many threads do you start about the Public Service and the current strike action?

Obsessed much?

thank you:cool:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055749678

ardmacha

I am not entirely an admirer of Peter Mc Loone. However he has given better value for his salary to this members than any member of the government has given the public.

CityCentreMan

"Public Enemy Number One" is a very apt title but I feel that it is one that Peter Mc Loone should take second place to after Brian Cowan.

Peter Mc Loone is prepared to do untold damage to our already near bankrupt economy. The campaign being orchestrated by the union leaders is un-winnable because the only alternative is that the government back down and if they do the entire economy is screwed for years to come.

Peter Mc Loone and the rest of the union leadership are not fools and they know that there is no alternative to the pay cuts, job cuts, service reductions and benefit cuts that are both neccessary and inevitable.

Unfortunately, the union leadership is either unwilling or unable to tell their members the truth "There is No Alternative" . In fact,they would be unable to convince them of the truth and to a large extent, Brian Cowan & Co must take the blame for this.

1. With Brian Cowan paid nearly as much as President Obama, it is hard to take his calls for pay cuts seriously;
2. With Brian Cowan as a senior member of the party (then Minister for Finance) that was largely responsible for this mess - Is it not surprising that the PS are finding his BS hard to believe now;
3. With a track record of always backing down to the unions, it is understandable that that the PS believe that the government will back down this time;
4. With such an overpaid Prime Minister, Government, Judiciary, Heads of Semi states etc., etc. it is not surprising that the PS think that they are being unfairly singled out.

As much as I detest Peter McLoone and the rest of the Union Leaders, I think that our real Public Enemy Number One is Brian Cowan. It is his lack of leadership, his un-inspiring performance & and his failure to leads by example that represent the greatest threat to the future wellbeing of this country.

In my view, if we are ever to get out of this situation we must:

a) Address the issue of "fairness" by cutting the salaries and removing all unvouched expenses at the top (Govt, Politicians, Judiciary, Dept Heads etc) and by making those cuts deeper very, very deep - much deeper than normal workers thus making it clear that the pain is being shared;

b) Address the hearts and minds issue of convincing everyone that this is the best and indeed only way of securing our future by adopting the informational type campaign that was needed to secure the Yes vote for Lisbon;

c) Not back down to the unions in the PS and in the process address the issues of overstaffing, pay levels & productivity so that we can improve our competitive position quickly and get this economy back on track.

God its late....

Darragh29

Wheety wrote: »

How many threads do you start about the Public Service and the current strike action?

Obsessed much?

I'd argue conversely that rather than being obsessed with the public sector, I'm of the view that public sector workers are in complete denial about the hardship that private workers are feeling. I'd love to sit some of these people who were striking today, down with people I know who have closed businesses recently, one lad I know gave a personal guarantee to a bank to start up a small business (making signage), the banks are now trying to force him to sell his house which he, his wife and his kids live in, (same bank is being bailed out by him, a taxpayer), he's been served with a circuit court summons with a petition for committal attached to it, (to have him put in prison if he doesn't pay the loan).

This guy didn't try to get rich, he never even paid himself a proper wage out of the business, but here he is having to go to court to keep a roof over his head, the guy is basically suicidal...

Then I turn on Prime Time tonight and there is a woman on 60K a year saying that she can't survive on 60K?!?!?!?!?

People are angry about this, they have every right on earth to be angry about it, it's not an obsession, it's very well placed anger at the situation we've been landed in, the greed that is still out there where people on between 50K and 500K are claiming that they cannot take a pay cut.

This casual and vulgar disregard for people who have an issue with this carry on, calling them "obsessed", is just a continuance of the same arrogance, snobbery and class indifference that has us in this mess...

martian1980

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'd argue conversely that rather than being obsessed with the public sector, I'm of the view that public sector workers are in complete denial about the hardship that private workers are feeling. I'd love to sit some of these people who were striking today, down with people I know who have closed businesses recently, one lad I know gave a personal guarantee to a bank to start up a small business (making signage), the banks are now trying to force him to sell his house which he, his wife and his kids live in, (same bank is being bailed out by him, a taxpayer), he's been served with a circuit court summons with a petition for committal attached to it, (to have him put in prison if he doesn't pay the loan).

This guy didn't try to get rich, he never even paid himself a proper wage out of the business, but here he is having to go to court to keep a roof over his head, the guy is basically suicidal...

Then I turn on Prime Time tonight and there is a woman on 60K a year saying that she can't survive on 60K?!?!?!?!?

People are angry about this, they have every right on earth to be angry about it, it's not an obsession, it's very well placed anger at the situation we've been landed in, the greed that is still out there where people on between 50K and 500K are claiming that they cannot take a pay cut.

This casual and vulgar disregard for people who have an issue with this carry on, calling them "obsessed", is just a continuance of the same arrogance, snobbery and class indifference that has us in this mess...

It is quite possible that the 60k woman can't live on her salary - maybe she has a huge mortgage and huge childcare expenses - we just don't know. It's quite possible that having left college and got her job as a physio, she entered financial commitments based on her salary at the time, but now is having real difficulty affording them. This type of thing has happened people in the public and private sectors, and it's not arrogance to say they can't survive on the lower income

Scofflaw

Since McLoone is simply an individual who represents a union, and is unlikely to be a shadowy eminence grise behind union action (which would make his personality and motives topics of discussion), I'm not sure what the point of this thread is other than to have a go at the man as a way of personalising dislike for the action taken by the unions. And that's not actually politics, whatever our politicians may think.

Furthermore, this thread has fallen into trench warfare before reaching the end of the first page. The Western Front is wide enough already.

moderately,
Scofflaw