Hackers expose climate change rig up?

aligator_am

Didn't see anything about this on the forum so decided to post it up:

LONDON – Computer hackers have broken into a server at a well-respected climate change research center in Britain and posted hundreds of private e-mails and documents online — stoking debate over whether some scientists have overstated the case for man-made climate change.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_climate_hacked_e_mails

The scientists say that their words are taken out of context, which is possible, but it's worrying that if there is truth in the accusations, especially when we are about to get lumbered with a carbon tax

There were apparently files grabbed by the hackers, not just emails, as highlighted on another site I'll quote below:

Here’s the code with the comments left by the programmer:

function mkp2correlation,indts,depts,remts,t,filter=filter,refperiod=refperiod,$
datathresh=datathresh
;
; THIS WORKS WITH REMTS BEING A 2D ARRAY (nseries,ntime) OF MULTIPLE TIMESERIES
; WHOSE INFLUENCE IS TO BE REMOVED. UNFORTUNATELY THE IDL5.4 p_correlate
; FAILS WITH >1 SERIES TO HOLD CONSTANT, SO I HAVE TO REMOVE THEIR INFLUENCE
; FROM BOTH INDTS AND DEPTS USING MULTIPLE LINEAR REGRESSION AND THEN USE THE
; USUAL correlate FUNCTION ON THE RESIDUALS.
;
pro maps12,yrstart,doinfill=doinfill
;
; Plots 24 yearly maps of calibrated (PCR-infilled or not) MXD reconstructions
; of growing season temperatures. Uses “corrected” MXD – but shouldn’t usually
; plot past 1960 because these will be artificially adjusted to look closer to
; the real temperatures.
;

and later the same programming comment again in another routine:

;
; Plots (1 at a time) yearly maps of calibrated (PCR-infilled or not) MXD
; reconstructions
; of growing season temperatures. Uses “corrected” MXD – but shouldn’t usually
; plot past 1960 because these will be artificially adjusted to look closer to
; the real temperatures.

It's also quite interesting that according to BBC weatherman Paul Hudson, he was sent copies of the emails (presumably from the hackers) on October 12th, I would have thought that the news would have been more prominent before now?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulhudson/

Let me know what you guys think, do you think there's something to this CT or do you think it's a storm in a teacup? (pun not intended)

imstrongerthanu

The emails are not fake, and have been acknowledged to be genuine by the scoundrels "scientists" themselves.This is huge most likely the biggest scam in the last 100 years.

EXODUS251022

Definately something to it, these scamming baastards never stop.

humanji

I haven't read many of them, but some of them really are taken out of context and others seem fairly incriminating. But to be honest, I don't think it makes a difference. The carbon tax is money the government want. If they don't introduce the carbon tax, they get the money through a different tax. It means little to them.

steamjetjoe

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

The emails are not fake, and have been acknowledged to be genuine by the scoundrels "scientists" themselves.This is huge most likely the biggest scam in the last 100 years.

Exactly, but I reckon very little will come of it:(
Besides, if they didnt bring in the carbon tax they would just make up some other tax. It will kind of be like the water charges coming in soon enough, Because we have such a shortage of water on this island:rolleyes:

studiorat

steamjetjoe wrote: »

Because we have such a shortage of water on this island:rolleyes:

You go ahead and drink the contaminated water in Galway then...
Plenty of water f*ck all treatment for it though. :rolleyes:

Myrddin

studiorat wrote: »

You go ahead and drink the contaminated water in Galway then...
Plenty of water f*ck all treatment for it though. :rolleyes:

The levels of tax payed through your wages dont entitle you to a glass of water in your own home?

mysterious

humanji wrote: »

I haven't read many of them, but some of them really are taken out of context and others seem fairly incriminating. But to be honest, I don't think it makes a difference. The carbon tax is money the government want. If they don't introduce the carbon tax, they get the money through a different tax. It means little to them.

Yes but carbon tax is STILL another way to get money out of the people at the expence of this bull**** climate change balony. It s gone so ridicolous that for the last 30 years they have been on this bandwagon and little has been done to stop using fossil fuels. In America the US government had the opportunity to build H20 combustion and electric cars. But opted no, and that was back in the 70s. We had a chance to make Kyoto something, that bummed too. Every single US president at all the inaugartions said they would stop using foriegn oil and fossil fuels Have they stopped no. They are in countries now taking oil while butchering millions. The governements have done little to nothing on taking responsibility to tackle world pollution problems. Even George Bush Junior even played this propaganda at his two inaugurations. What did he do instead invaded oil pumping nations and expanded his family run oil industry. It's so hysterical, a scientist researcher in the states recently told me that taking foriegn oil is no big thing to them, because they can take vast amounts of mineral and fossil fuel from the moon if they wanted too. But America don't want other countries to take their share of the oil on the planet so they ensure their own economic hegomy. They haven't change their policies one bit.


The biggest change we have done on our planet is taking the next step for an armaggedden. Our planet would look after itself if we all had enough cop on and treated nature with respect. But we don't And taking more money out of our pockets to tacle this world problem is not going to solve anything but make the powers of be richer and more destructive


So humanitarian of them that they are very keen on carbon tax.

I find it really offensive that you would even just say carbon tax means nothing to them. Al gore has spent 10 years trying to con people into paying carbon tax. People are having none of it. He's now on about saving polar bears. He was cot out on his bull**** there too, when scientists came to his convention and corrected his nonfacts on the situation with Polar bears population numbers. That man is a joke. So the real point here, it's all about money. This is nothing but about taking money out of us.


It's an absaloute joke.. It's getting so shambolic it wouldn't surprise me, if the US airforce blew a few missiles into the Antarctic to break off a few icebergs off into sea. So it will hit the headlines, oh it's global warming lol...


I find this whole hacker climate change scam another part of this kaniving agenda.

BLITZ_Molloy

The CRU are a bunch of messers. A few months back they claimed that they'd lost the data because hard drive storage was too expensive!
http://www.masterresource.org/2009/08/data-data-whos-got-the-data-a-strange-situation-at-climate-research-center-university-of-east-anglia/

What a crock of ****. So these lads hack into their servers and leak the temperature data going back to 1996, which they've previously said they deleted.

Temperatures have not been rising (hence the meme changing from Global Warming to Climate Change in the last few years) and they've been trying to surpress this information for the last few years because climatologists aren't going to get a whole lot more funding for predicting apocalypse than saying "umm.. no change".

I also find the idea of a conspiracy theory forum a little bit cheap. Why not call it healthy skepticism . There's no point in marginalising opinions if they're a little offbeat, because the consensus isn't cast iron by any means. It can do an about turn in a heartbeat. It's a little too easy to call anybody who disagrees with you crazy, a conspiracy theorist or a crackpot.

Undergod

In fairness, water charges are completely reasonable. All that screening and filtering and cleaning (and flouridation!) doesn't do itself, it's a very costly process. Makes sense to charge people according to how much they use.

steamjetjoe

Its a scandal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPDyfNVUt08&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFt07eAAQ94&feature=player_embedded

Now excuse me while I go hug a tree:mad:

studiorat

EnterNow wrote: »

The levels of tax payed through your wages dont entitle you to a glass of water in your own home?

Swings and roundabouts really...

The excuse is that it's more ecological etc. no?
But you also get grants for energy conservation upgrades to your home...

Water charges were abolished in 1997, the state of water in places like Galway and lately Cork hasn't exactly got better has it? If the country is to meet regulations on water quality charges will need to be set up. Dublin coropration are already looking at spending €600 on getting water from the Shannon since it now needs an extra 300million liters a day. The state of the water supply in this country is already fooked by the looks of it, whether this climate change is man made or not...

aligator_am

studiorat wrote: »

Swings and roundabouts really...

The excuse is that it's more ecological etc. no?
But you also get grants for energy conservation upgrades to your home...

Water charges were abolished in 1997, the state of water in places like Galway and lately Cork hasn't exactly got better has it? If the country is to meet regulations on water quality charges will need to be set up. Dublin coropration are already looking at spending €600 on getting water from the Shannon since it now needs an extra 300million liters a day. The state of the water supply in this country is already fooked by the looks of it, whether this climate change is man made or not...

Aye, but don't we lose a vast amount of our drinking water through leaky pipes? What I don't understand is why wasn't this issue sorted while we were in the boom??? surely any logical person could see that the primary things to work on during a boom are the things that will be important when the boom ends???? that way after all those things are in place, then what you are left with is your own, so to speak.

imstrongerthanu

aligator_am wrote: »

Aye, but don't we lose a vast amount of our drinking water through leaky pipes? What I don't understand is why wasn't this issue sorted while we were in the boom??? surely any logical person could see that the primary things to work on during a boom are the things that will be important when the boom ends???? that way after all those things are in place, then what you are left with is your own, so to speak.

When was the last time you seen a building company install a playground for the children who will be living in these concrete jungles?Don't hold your breath thinking they installed drainage pipes.They installed the minimum without and foresight.There greedy bastards, plain and simple.

mysterious

Undergod wrote: »

In fairness, water charges are completely reasonable. All that screening and filtering and cleaning (and flouridation!) doesn't do itself, it's a very costly process. Makes sense to charge people according to how much they use.

I never asked for flouride in my water. i will certainly not been paying for something to clog up my pineal gland. They have the technology to make water more economcial and environmentelly friendly. They could do alot of things We could even have solar panel streetlights that cost nothing to the esb, but we spend thosands of manhours spending thosands wireing street lamps and cables underground. We could build our own water cleaning system if we really wanted ,but we leave that to the government like everything. We could even use rainwater if we needed too, but no leave it someone else. We could have electric cars, but somehow they are far more expensive than petrol cars. But in the hypocrisy of that they spend trillions in war taking oil out of countries illegally. Logic wil tell you our governments don't give a baboon about us, only when they can get more money out of us.


Thats the reality

IrelandSpirit

It's just laughable that people can still believe in global warming and deny the evidence that for the last decade its been cooling. They've been caught lying, fraud, plain and simple. Interesting to see how the Gov will worm themselves out of this one though...

mysterious

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

It's just laughable that people can still believe in global warming and deny the evidence that for the last decade its been cooling. They've been caught lying, fraud, plain and simple. Interesting to see how the Gov will worm themselves out of this one though...

You should listen to at least 5 minutes of Al gore on his "saving the world plot" It's not laughable its cringing. Mainly because they truly believe they they are fooling us. There has been thousands of people wanting to challenge Al gore on his "facts" and he refusses point blank to be interviewed by any scientist, global warming experts, environmentalists etc. The only interviews he does is with Katic Couric or someone on CNN

When Al gore gets asked about Global warming he just runs over, oh make sure you turn of the lights when not in use and then........ its onto carbon tax. He then gets a nobel, because he made global awareness on global warming.

I don't know whether its cringing time, laughing time or both.

studiorat

mysterious wrote: »

I never asked for flouride in my water. i will certainly not been paying for something to clog up my pineal gland.

Interesting, what have you been drinking up till now?

mysterious wrote: »

They have the technology to make water more economcial and environmentelly friendly. They could do alot of things We could even have solar panel streetlights that cost nothing to the esb, but we spend thosands of manhours spending thosands wireing street lamps and cables underground.

I'm taking an educated guess here, but I reckon a few miles of cable would be cheaper than even a modern battery. I'm also reckoning that it would be pretty unfeisable to build a solar panel that would collect enough energy during the day to light a street lamp for the night.

mysterious wrote: »

We could build our own water cleaning system if we really wanted ,but we leave that to the government like everything. We could even use rainwater if we needed too, but no leave it someone else.

We? Who's we?
I always thought the water came from rainfall already? I must have been out that day in school.

Another educated guess; wouldn't it be economically sound to have a central water supply than expect everyone to take care of their own need for water? I'm wondering what whold happen in say an appartment block, how do they collect water?

mysterious wrote: »

We could have electric cars, but somehow they are far more expensive than petrol cars. But in the hypocrisy of that they spend trillions in war taking oil out of countries illegally. Logic wil tell you our governments don't give a baboon about us, only when they can get more money out of us.

Electric cars have a limited range and need to be charged over a long period of time. Personally I'd prefer a small nuclear reactor in my car, but I'm a safe driver.

mysterious wrote: »

Thats the reality

Your reality maybe. Most peoples reality is that they neither have the time or inclination to set up their own anarcho-hydro filtration system. Other realities include, not being able to light a light bulb for a longer period of time than a solar panel can generate for.

One final reality is the internal combustion engine was invented about 200 years ago, probably 50 years ago the average person started owning a car.
Until very recently perhaps 20 years ago, the components for electric engines have been incredibly heavy, expensive to produce, and use lethal voltages, don't forget about battery. Electric motors to date have been pretty much useful for one application at a time, that is fine for tootling along and useless for hills, good for hills and crap at driving any distance. Good for long periods put bad at going fast etc. Not to mention that they need a load to run without blowing up and all the rest of it.

My guess is in perhaps 25 years we'll have a decent electric motor suitable for automotive use. And then we'll have people complaining about corrosives like battery acid in the enviornment or over mining for some mineral necessary for their use. And most likely some tool on the internet telling people that there was enough fossil fuels all along and it was a conspiracy that the internal combustion engine was done away with in the first place.

Myrddin

studiorat wrote: »

Swings and roundabouts really...

The excuse is that it's more ecological etc. no?
But you also get grants for energy conservation upgrades to your home...

Water charges were abolished in 1997, the state of water in places like Galway and lately Cork hasn't exactly got better has it? If the country is to meet regulations on water quality charges will need to be set up. Dublin coropration are already looking at spending €600 on getting water from the Shannon since it now needs an extra 300million liters a day. The state of the water supply in this country is already fooked by the looks of it, whether this climate change is man made or not...

I hear what your saying, but still I feel that clean drinking water, is a BASIC natural right. Two thirds of the planet is covered in liquid water, resevoirs are at bursting point at the moment, yes it costs money to process into drinking water, but should not be an excuse to intorduce a revenue generator.

As water usage isnt going to be metered, its just going to actually INCREASE the rate people use it. "F@@k it Im paying for eh arnt I", is a phrase which will be liberally applied to every tap left running, every car thats washed, every drop of water thats wasted. Through the governments lack of vision, and all round lack of care....the government in itself is the biggest waster of water on this island through its antiquated piping framework. Yes, a good percentage of water is lost through ancient pipes leaking.

Who do they think they are fooling, more ecological....whoever thinks Ireland can make ANY difference on the global stage is an idiot. an island in the atlantic with a population of 4 million..........

What about all the water wasteage, co2 production, emmissions, rubbish production in China (1.3 Billion people), India (1.2 Billion), USA (300 Million), in fact have a look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

Now think if Ireland dissappeared overnight, is it going to make ANY impact on ANY global issue? No. Yet we are fleeced on road tax, fuel costs, costs of living, etc etc. Im not saying we shouldnt pay for these things, Im simply saying we will swallow any old tripe we are fed about climate change, and happily pay through the nose thinking we've made a difference. Im afraid people, the only thing we've made a difference to, are the bank accounts of those fat necked gangsters in the Dail.

studiorat

It's all well and good to say well this is a small country we shouldn't do anything because we won't make a difference. You know feck-it...

But without sounding cheesy we've also seen cases where one person can change whole continents. So in that sense that argument kind of fails. Not to mention if we use less we pay for less as an individual and as a whole. It's those countries industry that contributes to the problem not the people themselves, and like it or not we also make use of their industry. Chances are you're sitting infront of it now...

I agree that drinking water is a basic right, I do'nt believe resivoirs are bursting at the moment, I actually believe the opposite is true. :eek: However them being too full also presents it's own problems. We aren't actually paying for the water as such, we are paying for the service of having it pumped to your house and having it "on-tap":D as it were...
Some people spend half the day getting water walking miles to get it. I've stayed in places where getting water for the day involves loading a donkey with watering cans and heading off to the well. So although water may be a basic human right in some way we still have to work to get it, whether it's the inconvience of having to pay for it or whether it's the inconvience of having to take time out of your day to fetch it, pay for it you must.

The notion that someone somewhere is making a profit from it is purile, some one's getting payed for their services alright but to go on like it's big business like an oil company or something is just daft.

bonkey

Can we stay on topic please....this thread isn't about fluoridation, water charges, electric cars, carbon taxes, nor anything else you might feel is related (directly or tangentially) to the entire question of climate change.

The thread is about the leak of information stolen from the CRU, and what (if any) conspiracies this supports.

Mahatma coat

well it does seem to confirm some of the suspicions that they wwere makin a lot of it up as te went along and fudging the numbers to suit

imstrongerthanu

studiorat

My guess the whole affair is a creationist conspiracy...

steamjetjoe

Just some more info on this scam

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/globalwarming.html

aligator_am

Although Alex Jones is a bit extreme sometimes, he has some very good interviews at times, I've linked a very interesting one below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1Qhm6YRdJE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS4HrQ4CYZU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoYhI5DosQs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCnE6Heb_tE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUK90jwqWnQ

An interesting debate for sure, albeit Jones is a bit vocal, but I feel it shows some very interesting things, the point that's raised about the hidden in plain sight document is very worrying

studiorat

Here's the real deal on the climate change conspiracy. You're being duped by Exon Mobil, the Chevron Corporation and the Southern Company. To name but a few. They have since 1998 being pumping money into climate change "skeptics".

They spent $5 million in two years to

''maximize the impact of scientific views consistent with ours on Congress, the media and other key audiences.''

From a leaked document from then:

A proposed media-relations budget of $600,000, not counting any money for advertising, would be directed at science writers, editors, columnists and television network correspondents, using as many as 20 ''respected climate scientists'' recruited expressly ''to inject credible science and scientific accountability into the global climate debate, thereby raising questions about and undercutting the 'prevailing scientific wisdom.' ''

So what do ya know? The climate change skeptics are being duped by a conspiracy har-de har. Something that most people knew 10 years ago btw...

http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/objecthandlers/index.cfm?ID=4466&Method=Full&PageCall=&Title=API+Plans+Major+Disinformation+Campaign+%28April%2C+1998%29&Cache=False

And who else has been pumping money into climate change denialists? why Phillip Morris or course...

The CATO institute, major climate change deniers. Exxon funded? But of course!

If you really are skeptical about climate change have a read of this. http://www.exxonsecrets.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Conspiracy theorists duped by global petroleum coporations, ironic no?

IrelandSpirit

Oh and now they're admiting to it:

"SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.

It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.

The UEA’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) was forced to reveal the loss following requests for the data under Freedom of Information legislation..."

TIMESONLINE:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6936328.ece

RoboClam

Did you read the rest of that article?

"The data were gathered from weather stations around the world and then adjusted to take account of variables in the way they were collected. The revised figures were kept, but the originals — stored on paper and magnetic tape — were dumped to save space when the CRU moved to a new building."

This happened in the 80's, and they didn't have access to the large storage devices that we have these days.

It also says that back then, climate change wasn't a pressing issue. It certainly wasn't as mainstream as it is now.

How would you feel if, tomorrow, scientists studying fluid dynamics in bioreactors erased their raw data, leaving only the "value-added (quality controlled and homogenised) data"? Would you care?

Maybe in twenty years, if this became a mainstream science people might care, but not today. This kind of thing probably happened all the time in the 80s in many fields of science.

bonkey

Isn't this a repetition of what they said quite some time ago, when refusing a FOIA request?

This smacks of either lazy reporting or someone trying to re-energise the story to sell a few more column-inches...

University asked for information.
University says they don't have it...that it has been thrown away.
This is reported.
Information is leaked from University, which doesn't include the stuff htey say they don't have.
University again says the dyon't have it...that it has been thrown away.
This is reported. Again.

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Oh and now they're admiting to it:

"SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.

It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.

The UEA’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) was forced to reveal the loss following requests for the data under Freedom of Information legislation..."

TIMESONLINE:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6936328.ece

Flamed Diving

Here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nnVQ2fROOg

For the McExperts by the brilliant potholer54.

Torakx

well if they take the irish peoples money that ussually goes to fertilizer from holland for our water and instead use that to pay off the guys trailing chemicals through our skies to go away we might be on to a start

it doesnt really matter what is found out these days. the mind control is pretty well set in now.they can do anything they want.
i just wonder how far it has to go before the irish people i used to be proud of all stand up again and tell these poor sick people to go and get help instead of leading us into the grave.i honestly feel sorry for all those politicians who run our country.they have no idea at all what to do.they are helpless kids with money to burn.its makes me sad to see the blind leading the blind,but in the end what can we do?

a bit more on topic. the fact alex jones has jumped on board might mean it could be a hoax conspiracy to throw people off the trail or some other plan that is going on.

is there anything happening right now somewhere else that they would not want us looking at?

Flamed Diving

The conspiracy... is a conspiracy!

LOL! You couldn't make it up! So, when is the conspiracy conspiracy going to turn out to be a conspiracy?

md23040

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

It's just laughable that people can still believe in global warming and deny the evidence that for the last decade its been cooling. They've been caught lying, fraud, plain and simple. Interesting to see how the Gov will worm themselves out of this one though...

Even with the internet putting information into the hands of the general public, the swine fools of government still try to fool us otherwise. :mad:

mysterious wrote: »

Yes but carbon tax is STILL another way to get money out of the people at the expence of this bull**** climate

If you lie big enough and often enough people start to believe you - just dont tell small lies or it'll be questioned. (Bush got away with it for years)

mysterious wrote: »

It's so hysterical, a scientist researcher in the states recently told me that taking foriegn oil is no big thing to them, because they can take vast amounts of mineral and fossil fuel from the moon if they wanted too.

Helium 3 as an alternative to fossil fuel in the near term is a myth. The most advanced fusion programs in the world are inertial confinement fusion and magnetic confinemt fusion. In the case helium-3 (32He) and deuterium, commercial power generation is not expected until around 2050 . The sh1t will have hit the fan long before that.