'extreme child rearing' - opinions???

cormie

I've never heard of breastfeeding being against the ethos of Vegans at all myself Surely you can't get much more natural than breastfeeding. The mothers milk is full of things to help their young specifically, it's the same for animals, their milk is for their offspring, not for coco pops to make the milk chocolatey :P

nesf

cormie wrote: »

I've never heard of breastfeeding being against the ethos of Vegans at all myself Surely you can't get much more natural than breastfeeding. The mothers milk is full of things to help their young specifically, it's the same for animals, their milk is for their offspring, not for coco pops to make the milk chocolatey :P

Oh no! They were very much pro-breastfeeding for vegan children! What they were saying was that it's impossible to provide all the nutrition breastmilk provides with vegan alternatives if you don't breastfeed. I'm not sure how accurate this would be but they seemed to know their stuff on the area.

metrovelvet

Aside from breastfeeding [which is still technically a dairy product so I dont know how vegans include this in the diet] its important for them to eat meat for chewing, developing mouth muscles for speech etc. At least according to the PHN. Makes sense to me.

nesf

metrovelvet wrote: »

Aside from breastfeeding [which is still technically a dairy product so I dont know how vegans include this in the diet] its important for them to eat meat for chewing, developing mouth muscles for speech etc. At least according to the PHN. Makes sense to me.

You can't chew properly with non-meat foods?

Vegans not being against breastfeeding makes perfect sense if you look into the moral reasoning behind the diet. It's got nothing to do with "dairy products" in general but how they are "made."

metrovelvet

Apparantly they need the meat to chew on as it is a bit tougher than non meat foods so that the muscles can develop. She said without meat it can slow speech development or seriously affect it, so its not just about nourishment. But, even if I were vegiterarean or whatever, I would still give my son meat. Even my brother who yells at me at Christmas and calls me sociopathic as I knife into the turkey says he would give his kids [at least small ones] meat - but as ethically stomachable as possible [ as in free range- grass fed and whatever else they say is ok in california hokey pokey land.]

cormie

I wouldn't be too sure what would substitute for vegan babies if they weren't being breastfed myself.

Metrovelvet, a mothers breast milk is a lot different than consuming the milk of another animal, which was intended for that animals own offspring. Sure if that were the case, I guess the most extreme vegans would be anti pregnancy at the risk of their being trace of breast milk in the genes from perhaps generations ago which would then be passed to the baby through the umbilical cord :P

As for the chewing, there's millions of foods in the world that require chewing and are vegan

Nevyn

I know a few kids who have been reared as vegetarians and they don't have speech issues,
two of them are utter chatter boxes.

metrovelvet

Thaedydal wrote: »

I now a few kids who have been reared as vegetarians and they don't have speech issues,
two of them are utter chatter boxes.

Well I also know kids who have never been vaccinated and haven't caught anything but that doesn't mean it cant happen and that it isn't against standard medical advice.

nesf

metrovelvet wrote: »

Well I also know kids who have never been vaccinated and haven't caught anything but that doesn't mean it cant happen and that it isn't against standard medical advice.

What one PHN says does not constitute standard medical advice. If you want to claim it as that you'll need a lot more than anecdotal evidence to back it up.

metrovelvet

nesf wrote: »

What one PHN says does not constitute standard medical advice. If you want to claim it as that you'll need a lot more than anecdotal evidence to back it up.

Fine but that is what she said. And she said it during a developmental check up so she giving medical advice.

You would have to back up you're point that that IS NOT good standard medical advice, since she was giving it in a medical office and not on a message board.

cormie

You can't really compare the two. One is a muscular activity influenced by the movement and activity of the mouth, the other is immunisation against the risk of infection. If I curl 5kg of Watermelon with my left arm and a 5kg lamb carcass with my right, it wont matter if the weight and resistance and technique is the same, my biceps and triceps will still grow accordingly.

metrovelvet

I wasnt comparing the two. I was just saying that just because you know people for whom this hasnt been a problem doesnt mean it wont be a problem for others.

nesf

metrovelvet wrote: »

I wasnt comparing the two. I was just saying that just because you know people for whom this hasnt been a problem doesnt mean it wont be a problem for others.

Yes, but the comparison with vaccination was extreme! I'll start a thread on Health Sciences about it and see what the medical people have to say.

littlebug

I do remember hearing / reading/ being told that it was important for babies to eat more solid foods, develop chewing and that it would help develop the muscle movement for speech (or something like that) but it wasn't in relation to meat... just more "chewy" food.

Back to the OP I know a family raised in a similar fashion who are all accomplished and talented adults now. Lovely family. It wouldn't be my way and I think it will be harder when the kids are at school with all the branding, birthday parties etc. I imagine the parents will probably have to become more relaxed about it but I think it's a great start. Xmas aside... but at the minute the child doesn't know any different.

nesf

Thread started here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63209597#post63209597

Make your cases. I've expressed my opinion.

cormie

littlebug wrote: »

I do remember hearing / reading/ being told that it was important for babies to eat more solid foods, develop chewing and that it would help develop the muscle movement for speech (or something like that) but it wasn't in relation to meat... just more "chewy" food.

Of course:) I guess besides toffees, meat is the most common "chewy" food in a standard diet. Vegan children aren't shy of having chewy food at all. There's so many chewy foods out there and lovely ones too dates, figs, coconut, even things like carrot and that you could be chewing for ages if eaten raw on their own.

metrovelvet

cormie wrote: »

Of course:) I guess besides toffees, meat is the most common "chewy" food in a standard diet. Vegan children aren't shy of having chewy food at all. There's so many chewy foods out there and lovely ones too dates, figs, coconut, even things like carrot and that you could be chewing for ages if eaten raw on their own.

Figs and dried apricot seem like good ideas. What is their fibre content?

cormie

Not sure about apricots, but I know figs are known to get the bowels in motion! Sea vegetables can also be very chewy, as are many other vegetables

ebmma

If the meat is that chewy, you are cooking it wrong

Mrs.T

I have worked with children for 20 years. In this time I have noticed a stark difference in children's behaviour and the way they play. I feel that tv has prevented children from imaginative play. From about 15 years ago(?) there was much more merchandise available that was linked to tv programmes and before you knew it most kids were talking about tv instead of what toys they played with. Through the years I have noticed that a lot of children seem to have lost the ability to play and make up games themselves which I think is very sad.

My best friend grew up without tv and I find her family have great communication, they made time for each another. Nowadays after having a tv for a few years she got rid of it again.

Now I have 2 children, DS didn't get to see tv or should I say programmes (because we hardly watch tv as it is) till he was around 2 years old. I don't want any of the kids relying on technology for entertainment. Now he watches things or plays games on the computer every so often. I don't approve of the (in my opinion) cr*p that you buy in the toy shops. The toys are such bad quality that they only last weeks if you are lucky. The toys don't allow for children to use their imagination or keep their interest for too long. My husband (let's call him Mr T) would rather buy Playmobil or Lego at say €60 rather than merchandise at €20 because it will last longer.

As for Christmas, Mr T wouldn't celebrate it normally because he is Dutch and they basically have their own Christmas(Sinterklaas). I don't like how commercialised Christmas has become but we will be celebrating it. My parents made Christmas magical for me so I want to pass that on to our children.

Can't really comment on veganism. PHN don't always know everything (but that's another post;))
Have to go, baby is crying....

twomaddogs

If that's extreme child rearing I must be guilty of it too...

My daughter doesn't watch TV either. I've read quite a bit about cognitive effects of TV in the under 5's and numerous studies show that at best TV has no benefit for the under 2's and at worst has a detrimental effect on cognitive development. To be honest I kind of think some programmes are better than others and can see how some would have some educational benefits, but I'd rather not use it at all, even though it's extremely tempting sometimes (I'm a SAHM and would sometimes love to plonk her in front of the TV for an hour so I get a break!). We play together instead and go out every day.

I feed her organic foods as much as possible too, I'd say around 75% of her diet is organic. I'm a veggie myself but I give her meat, but only organic meat (my concerns are around the use of hormones and antibiotics in non-organic meat)

I don't make a point of not buying branded toys at all, but I mostly stick to the old fashioned kind of wooden toys and things like treasure baskets which children tend to gravitate towards anyway where there's a choice

As for Christmas - we're definitely celebrating that, can't wait to get the tree up and see her all excited!

Hopefully the fact that she doesn't watch TV or eat junk food won't lead to her being bullied - in fact she's probably going to go to a Steiner school where the other kids will be brought up the same. It's not like I'm fanatical about it and turning it off in other people's houses or anything, she just doesn't see it in ours. In fact the odd times she has seen it she shows no interest. To me it's like a previous poster said, it's just a return to traditional child rearing rather than extreme child rearing.

Mrs.T

Children get bullied for all sorts of things. They will find something to bully about regardless how you bring up your children.

I would love a Steiner school to be in the area here!

LegacyUser

Das Kitty wrote: »

Sure he'll miss out on Christmas, but if they were a non-Christian background family and this was the case no one would have a problem with it.

The whole "lyign to my child is wrong" attitude is all well and good, but most parents feel that the magic of Santa is a good thing for a little child's mind and attitude, and this selfish mother will ruin that for all the kids in this childs class, because he will tell them all that there is no such thing. That's what maddens me. Whatever about telling him Santa doesn't come to this house because we don't celebrate Christmas for whatever reason, telling him that he doesn't exist ruins it for other kids.
Here people are saying "mind your own business, don't interfere" while her parenting is interfering with their parenting and ruining Christmas for their child.