Primetime 24/11: Since when is 55,000 not a good wage?

gurramok

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Sorta depends really, if you done your LC and got a job in Supervalu then 55K is great, if you went to college for 6 years then 55K is probably average

Its still a good wage in the real world whether those expectations of what salary you expect for your role are met or not.

Sure if I was Taoiseach and my salary was 55k, i'd expect more for the role. You won't see me moaning that its not a good wage.

kippy wrote:

Totally agree with the last part however lots and lots of circumstances hit people which are not personal spending habits........not condoning it, just saying that for some people 55k is not enough to live on, for the majority I would hope it would be well more than enough.......

For example, that Indo article harps on about bills, they made a choice to have high bills, no-one forced them to. (thats for any employee in any sector)

SLUSK

Well look if you have difficulties with your finances when you are on 50k+ a year you are a moron and have only your self to blame, at the moment I have zero income, yet no problems with my finances.

I can be voluntarily unemployed for the next 2-3 years if I feel like it because I have savings and ZERO debts.

Man I enjoy laughing at high income people in debt bondage whining about not being able to take cuts

Gurgle

Tipp Man wrote: »

Any teacher on point 14 in the salary scale will be on 60k, in lay mans terms those with 11 years experience, so any 35 year old teacher basically.

Point 14 is €53k.
About the same as you would expect in the private sector with an honours degree, a post graduate qualification and 10 years experience.

Tipp Man

Gurgle wrote: »

Point 14 is €53k.
About the same as you would expect in the private sector with an honours degree, a post graduate qualification and 10 years experience.

your forgetting the 5,177 for the degree and the 1,301 on top of the 53,239. that gives a total of 59,717, so 60k

The_Conductor

Gurgle wrote: »

Point 14 is €53k.
About the same as you would expect in the private sector with an honours degree, a post graduate qualification and 10 years experience.

Compare this to the civil service- EO is now considered to be graduate recruitment (many people who sat the AO competitions over the past few years were offered and accepted EO instead). So- honours degree, in most cases post grad qualification and 10 years experience = €46,636
An AO / Third Secretary in a foreign embassy would be = €56,510 (top of scale before LSI 1)

Doesn't sound a million miles from what they could reasonably expect to earn in the private sector....?

The_Conductor

Tipp Man wrote: »

your forgetting the 5,177 for the degree and the 1,301 on top of the 53,239. that gives a total of 59,717, so 60k

Really? I had no idea they got those top-ups......
I suppose it at least partially explains the ESRI report on public sector pay- which highlighted that the greatest pay disparity with the private sector is in the education sector.

If I got a topup for each of my undergrad degrees, my masters and my professional qualifications- I'd be rich....... Then again- I'd go stark raving mad in front of a class full of kids. Not sure my sanity is worth it.

ei.sdraob

smccarrick wrote: »

Really? I had no idea they got those top-ups......
I suppose it at least partially explains the ESRI report on public sector pay- which highlighted that the greatest pay disparity with the private sector is in the education sector.

If I got a topup for each of my undergrad degrees, my masters and my professional qualifications- I'd be rich....... Then again- I'd go stark raving mad in front of a class full of kids. Not sure my sanity is worth it.

ahem smoke some weeed or take valium before classes

then float thru

seems other teachers are onto the trick now

10000maniacs

If you have a €500,000 mortgage and a wife and two kids to support, even €100,000 is not a good wage.
Teachers are supposed to be relatively intelligent.
They secured the mortgage. They have to pay the consequences.
Personally they have to take a cut regardless.
Let them go on strike. The taxpayer will save money if they do.

irish_bob

starbelgrade wrote: »

I don't work in a protected sector, nor am I a protected professional - I own & run my own design company and my income is as it is, not because I work hard, not because I have a good client base (though these are factors), but because of the market forces ie., because what people are willing to pay for my work, make it so.

The public sector has benchmarking, but the private sector pay is determined by what people are willing or able to pay for their goods & services. That is a free market.

And to answer the original question - since when is €55k not a good wage? I can only speak for myself, and my answer would be... around about 2003.

2003 , this country will be lucky if it gets back to 2003 levels if and when we get back on our feet

_Kooli_

nesf wrote: »

Honestly, I'd consider it a good salary and enough to raise a small family on comfortably even after the deductions. Not rich but the idea of it being in the same category as someone on under 30K which was suggested by Prime Time (not the girl herself!) is absurd.

Earn €30K - Take home = €25K ::: taxed €5K

Earn €55K - Take home = €38K ::: taxed €17K

So someone earning €30k pays about 1/6 of salary in tax
and someone earning 55K pays about 1/3 of their salary in tax.

He earns €25K more but only takes home €13K more

Seems to me the person who worked harder at their career is getting screwed mightily in this deal.

Gurgle

Tipp Man wrote: »

your forgetting the 5,177 for the degree and the 1,301 on top of the 53,239. that gives a total of 59,717, so 60k

Only for the best academic performers.
For the rest it's ~€2,600.

TUI Website wrote:

1. (a) (i) H. Dip in Ed. (Pass) €622
(ii) Higher Froebel Cert. €622
(b) (i) H. Dip in Ed. (1st or 2nd Hons) €1,299
(ii) Árd Teastas Gaeilge €1,299
(c) Primary Degree (Pass) €1,939
(d) Masters Degree by thesis
or exam (Pass) €5,177
(e) Primary Degree (1st or 2nd Hons) €5,177
(f) Masters Degree (1st or 2nd Hons) €5,177
(g) Doctors Degree €6,463


Only one of the allowances at (a) or (b) may be held together with one of the allowances (c) to (g)

ei.sdraob

_Kooli_ wrote: »

Seems to me the person who worked harder at their career is getting screwed mightily in this deal.

* progressive taxation
* taxing the "rich"

yada yada

welcome to Irish Soviet Socialistic Republic

Tipp Man

smccarrick wrote: »

Really? I had no idea they got those top-ups......
I suppose it at least partially explains the ESRI report on public sector pay- which highlighted that the greatest pay disparity with the private sector is in the education sector.

If I got a topup for each of my undergrad degrees, my masters and my professional qualifications- I'd be rich....... Then again- I'd go stark raving mad in front of a class full of kids. Not sure my sanity is worth it.

Yep its true at both primary and secodary level
http://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scale/
http://www.into.ie/ROI/InformationforTeachers/Salaries/AcademicandOtherAllowances/

You also get an additional 5k for a masters and 6.5k if you have a docorite

they are doing very well for themselves let me tell you

TCP/IP_King

gurramok wrote: »

According to this chart 80% of the workforce earn under 50k. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63041551&postcount=26

Now for 55k, that number grows a bit. So yeh, the person who says 55k is not a good wage is a liar.

And did you notice from your table the salary range that is paying most of the income tax in this country??

As someone else said, it's all relative.

Tipp Man

Gurgle wrote: »

Only for the best academic performers.
For the rest it's ~€2,600.

That is true but if you haven't got a 2nd class honors degree then you shouldn't be teaching. You make it sound like only the geniuses are getting it

_Kooli_

SLUSK wrote: »

Well look if you have difficulties with your finances when you are on 50k+ a year you are a moron and have only your self to blame, at the moment I have zero income, yet no problems with my finances.

I can be voluntarily unemployed for the next 2-3 years if I feel like it because I have savings and ZERO debts.

Man I enjoy laughing at high income people in debt bondage whining about not being able to take cuts

You are right, people who get themselves into debt have only themselves to blame.

Do you really have zero income or are you just exaggerating for effect. Do you get any dole, childrens allowance, rent allowance etc?

Gurgle

smccarrick wrote: »

Compare this to the civil service- EO is now considered to be graduate recruitment (many people who sat the AO competitions over the past few years were offered and accepted EO instead). So- honours degree, in most cases post grad qualification and 10 years experience = €46,636
An AO / Third Secretary in a foreign embassy would be = €56,510 (top of scale before LSI 1)

Doesn't sound a million miles from what they could reasonably expect to earn in the private sector....?

Can you explain these grades / jobs a bit more?

Postgrad + 10 years @ €47k sounds a bit on the low side.

AO / Third Secretary @ €57k - Honestly I have no idea whether this job involves counting paperclips or negotiating international law.

The_Conductor

Gurgle wrote: »

Can you explain these grades / jobs a bit more?

Postgrad + 10 years @ €47k sounds a bit on the low side.

AO / Third Secretary @ €57k - Honestly I have no idea whether this job involves counting paperclips or negotiating international law.

EO is junior management, could potentially be a technical role (IT programmer, scientific research officer etc) or a policy role (possibly 'expert' status in a particular commodity or group of commodities, social area or business area).

AO/Third Sec would be not dissimilar to EO, but with more responsibility, the expectation of working independently and would be considered a fast-track promotion grade (not that this is going to happen in the current climate).

If you want to put it in the context of negotiating internation law- an EO might interpret the law- while the AO might negotiate it. Neither would have the authority to make any meaningful decisions without the sanction of their line manager. An EO, despite being a grade lower than an AO- might normally have more staff reporting to them (but this will vary from department to department).

Some government departments have virtually abolished the AO grade altogether- while others (notably the Department of Finance and the Taoiseach's Department) have significant numbers of them.

Gurgle

Tipp Man wrote: »

That is true but if you haven't got a 2nd class honors degree then you shouldn't be teaching. You make it sound like only the geniuses are getting it

I know things have changed in recent years, every half-baked IT is printing degrees like they're shares in a dot.com boom - but back in my college days 1st or 2nd class honours was a real achievement.

Less than 20% of the class would get those grades.

Tipp Man

Gurgle wrote: »

I know things have changed in recent years, every half-baked IT is printing degrees like they're shares in a dot.com boom - but back in my college days 1st or 2nd class honours was a real achievement.

Less than 20% of the class would get those grades.

Yeah but back in the day good grades were good grades, they weren't simply handed to you!!

LoLth

Tipp Man wrote: »

I posted this in the teacher thread but i suppose its as appropriate here

Any teacher on point 14 in the salary scale will be on 60k, in lay mans terms those with 11 years experience, so any 35 year old teacher basically.

2 married 35 year old teachers will probably have 120k as a gross income.

In fact its kind of ironic that the unions want to tax the rich, i.e those earning over 100k but they forget that now because our PS is soooo overpaid that a lot of married PS couples will be "RICH", basically any 35 year old couple who are teachers, nurses, Gardai are rich as defined by the unions and Greens it seems

sorry to drop back into the thread but from your post would the smart thing to do not be to give the unions what they want so when the tally is made more "rich" PS workers end up being caught in the tax net?

gurramok

TCP/IP_King wrote: »

And did you notice from your table the salary range that is paying most of the income tax in this country??

As someone else said, it's all relative.

On the general picture yes.(do the unions realise this?) As noted above the 55k'er still has a massive 3k or over a month to play with.

Tipp Man

LoLth wrote: »

sorry to drop back into the thread but from your post would the smart thing to do not be to give the unions what they want so when the tally is made more "rich" PS workers end up being caught in the tax net?

Problem is that tax collected from the PS doesn't increase the tax take overall eg. current situation a PS worker earning 100k paying 20k tax (say 20% tax) so net governement spend is 80k, now same person but tax is increased to 25% so net goverenment spend is 75k

now same worker has wages reduced to 90k, tax stays at 20% so net government spend is 72k, so governement is better off having the PS worker earning less but paying less tax as it is all coming from the same pot anyway.

Gurgle

gurramok wrote: »

the 55k'er still has a massive 3k or over a month to play with.

rofl
€3k a month sounds like a lot when you're living at home with Mammy, best of luck paying a mortgage and raising a family on it.

murphaph

Gurgle wrote: »

rofl
€3k a month sounds like a lot when you're living at home with Mammy, best of luck paying a mortgage and raising a family on it.

People do those things on a LOT less than 3k net.

55k IS a good salary.

omega man

thebman wrote: »

Only having one person in the family working by choice would be a luxurious lifestyle for so many people.

Not if you have a sick child. However, in general i would agree.

In my company there will be a redundancy package on the table so i have been looking around at jobs and have been amazed at the levels of pay versus experience/qualifications. Im 13 years in my company and earn a good wage by all accounts but i know if i leave i doubt i could achieve a similar salary.

granturismo

murphaph wrote: »

People do those things on a LOT less than 3k net.

55k IS a good salary.

55K gross is not a good salary when there is a mortgage to be paid and it is the only salary in the household; when Irish prices are charged for everyday services and products.

55K is a good salary when compared to any lower income; when compared to the cost of living in France.

Stark

LoLth wrote: »

sorry to drop back into the thread but from your post would the smart thing to do not be to give the unions what they want so when the tally is made more "rich" PS workers end up being caught in the tax net?

Because punitive rates of tax also create a disincentive to producing wealth. You still want people to start businesses and grow those businesses with a view to achieving high earnings with the side effect of generating extra tax revenue and employment. If we create effective salary caps through punitive tax rates for all high earners, then we limit the amount of wealth that this country can generate and the rest of us are left to fight with each other over ever dwindling scraps.

It's far better to look at the outgoings on a case by case basis as a private sector employer would do and ask "is this worker really worth 70k?". In some cases, yes, we should be prepared to pay a premium for talent. In other cases, no. Why should someone earn a grossly high salary simply because they stuck around for 10 years without ever having to prove that they were worth that?

gurramok

Gurgle wrote: »

rofl
€3k a month sounds like a lot when you're living at home with Mammy, best of luck paying a mortgage and raising a family on it.

Here we go again. No-one forces anyone to take out a huge bill. If you take out a huge bill, whether its a jumbo mortgage or the most expensive NTL pack or that car loan for the BMW X5, thats their problem of an expensive lifestyle.

There are alternatives to live handsomely on 55k, its called living within your means.

Gurgle

gurramok wrote: »

There are alternatives to live handsomely on 55k, its called living within your means.

Yes, I agree - you can live in reasonable comfort on €55k, its a good wage.
Its not

gurramok wrote:

massive

.
It's fine so long as your kids don't want to go to college, you don't mind taking a summer holiday to your back garden and you're happy to knock around in a 10 year old car.