Primetime 24/11: Since when is 55,000 not a good wage?

saol alainn

Gurgle wrote: »

rofl
€3k a month sounds like a lot when you're living at home with Mammy, best of luck paying a mortgage and raising a family on it.

Only if you're still trying to live pre-recession standard, though. There's no denying that many people, especially the young, were fooled by those they trusted. But except for the mortgage, why should someone on that sort of wage be in other debts? When I was still working part-time, we never had more than €35k/annum these past few years. Now it's just my husband that's still working (so far at least, thank God), and we average around €2k/month. And apart from the mortgage, there was never any debt. If we couldn't pay anything back while on 0% credit, we didn't buy. It's been said that the higher the wage, the more that person is liable to be in credit/store card debts and overdrafts. I cannot understand why or even how. How did their pay packet not be enough? Why would someone need to have an overdraft when they're earning €50k?

Having said that, I can understand how some young families, and maybe not so young, had to pay over the odds for their property. Rents were way up there (for instance, we were paying €1000/month for an apartment built for Barbie and her Ken, and many others were paying much more), so it was logical that one would look to buy and repay by the same amount. So say someone has a €1500/month mortgage, they're only left with €1500 to pay bills, eat and save, if they're lucky.

It can be done, though, with a large dose of effort.

gurramok

Gurgle wrote: »

It's fine so long as your kids don't want to go to college, you don't mind taking a summer holiday to your back garden and you're happy to knock around in a 10 year old car.

Yes you can have those on 55k. Everyone else can manage those things on much less wages so no excuse. If you overextend yourself, its your problem, not societies.

saol alainn

Gurgle wrote: »

Yes, I agree - you can live in reasonable comfort on €55k, its a good wage.
Its not .
It's fine so long as your kids don't want to go to college, you don't mind taking a summer holiday to your back garden and you're happy to knock around in a 10 year old car.

What's wrong with a 10 year old car? I've an 00 fiesta and will only say goodbye to it when either me or it pop our cork. A summer holiday can be had without breaking the bank, and why wouldn't anyone have started saving for their kids' college fees from when they were very young? It's only impossible when one realises their kid is 16 and the fund is non-existent.

asdasd

ut except for the mortgage, why should someone on that sort of wage be in other debts?

Because they believed the myth.

I was on 55K in Ireland 3 years ago when 55K meant something. I jest, it may have meant little more than now.

I rented with a gf - who was a part-student - and, (heres the point) one other chap. We rented, because I was of the opinion that buying was a bad idea. The house was in a nice area, a bit small in the communal parts, but good sized bedrooms. wE only needed two bedrooms. I think I paid about 400, my gf 200, the other chap 400. So 600 for one room, and 400 for the other.

See what I did there? I left myself with about 3K a month. Allowed me to do what I wanted and saved. Didnt have a car either.

In no way was that rich, however neither was I worried about money, and I could - and we did - go to Hotels occasionally at weekend to be romantic and get away from the other lad. A decent chap, though.

I had turned 30 at that stage. Kept meeting younger friends who shacked up at 24 with 40 year mortgages driving cars worth their salary ( i.e. a 30K car on 30K). To be fair they anticipated continuing wage growth, while my wages had merely met inflation for a few years. Thats the way the private sector works - there is more wage growth in your twenties. It was, however, still madness. I am pretty sure that most of these guys were - even before the bust - in personal debt ignoring the car and mortgage anyway. They dressed to the nines. Expensive watches. Holidays ( although that is also my indulgence)

Living with other people in your twenties, even when coupled up, used to be common. Renting and getting a deposit was common.

i agree that 55K would be a different kettle of fish with kids, however there is that child allowance and less need to socialise when married etc.

_Kooli_

Gurgle wrote: »

Yes, I agree - you can live in reasonable comfort on €55k, its a good wage.
Its not .
It's fine so long as your kids don't want to go to college, you don't mind taking a summer holiday to your back garden and you're happy to knock around in a 10 year old car.

In fairness it is a nice wage if you are only renting a room in a house and have no kids.
When someone grows up and has kids they need to then rent/buy something bigger and all the other costs that come with kids. Thats when that nice wage starts to get stretched.

So it might be a nice wage to some, its not to others. Life stages.

hellboy99

Gurgle wrote: »

Yes, I agree - you can live in reasonable comfort on €55k, its a good wage.
Its not .
It's fine so long as your kids don't want to go to college, you don't mind taking a summer holiday to your back garden and you're happy to knock around in a 10 year old car.

And whats wrong with having a 10 year old car etc... Myself, wife and child, we have a 10 year car, a nice rented house, 22k a year, we get by fine. 55k and people can't live, problem as I see it is they are trying to live a yuppee lifestyle they can barely afford and need a good dose of reality.

kippy

gurramok wrote: »

Its still a good wage in the real world whether those expectations of what salary you expect for your role are met or not.

Sure if I was Taoiseach and my salary was 55k, i'd expect more for the role. You won't see me moaning that its not a good wage.



For example, that Indo article harps on about bills, they made a choice to have high bills, no-one forced them to. (thats for any employee in any sector)

I am speaking IN GENERAL HERE not just for Public Service wages....

Okay listen,
I said 55k was a good wage, never didnt.
I said that whether it was enough to live on depended on your circumstances.
I said that not all circumstances are by choice. EG - Family medical issues amoung one, children going to college being another. People on this wage dont get medical cards or "Free college education" they have to pay for it.


If you cant get he basics of what I am trying to say, then sorry.

The_Honeybadger

hellboy99 wrote: »

And whats wrong with having a 10 year old car etc... Myself, wife and child, we have a 10 year car, a nice rented house, 22k a year, we get by fine. 55k and people can't live, problem as I see it is they are trying to live a yuppee lifestyle they can barely afford and need a good dose of reality.

It's nice to see that at least a few people haven't lost the run of themselves. Anybody who can't live on 55k needs a serious wake up call. I earn 32k and my partner earns about 8-10k (part-time as we've 2 kids). We get on just fine because we budget!! To be fair the kids are very young and we don't have a mortgage but renting is ok for us at the moment until we have a big enough deposit saved to get a good equity in a property (80% mortgage is what I'm aiming for). We even save a bit of what we earn so I really can't see where someone on 55k could be short unless of course they're up to their eyeballs in debt or they enjoy things in life they can't afford which is just downright foolish and cannot be used to say it's not a good salary. I would love a salary in that range and hope to earn that in the future but I sure won't be using it to pay back crazy debts for cars and big houses. Maybe they need to start teaching financial planning in schools or something, as far as I'm concerned if you want something (apart from a house which would take over a decade) you save for it end of story! To answer the questions its a very good wage in my opinion, if people overstretched themselves then you cant expect society to pick up the slack.

hellboy99

mickeyk wrote: »

To answer the questions its a very good wage in my opinion

I agree, 55k is nothing to complain about, plenty of people would love to work for that and a lot less, I know I would.

mickeyk wrote: »

if people overstretched themselves then you cant expect society to pick up the slack.

That's just it, they don't want to do anything but they expect to be bailed out of their own financial mess. From what we have heard and seen from various media (I'm sure it's not all public sector workers), the ones we are seeing that are complaining seem to be living way beyond their means. Yes it's nice to own your own home, but you don't be stupid and go out and buy something you don't need and can barely afford to pay each month and not plan ahead :rolleyes:, these people are still and wanting to continue living in the bubble of the boom years.

If we never heard of and have NAMA would be hearing and seeing what we are now from these people.

donkey balls

my mate is married has 3 kids+2 dogs basic salary of 35k a year with OT(when available) makes around 50k.

the kids are in school misses doesent work they have two cars mortgage is about 1200 a month and they get by ok.

destroyer

If you cant feed you family, put kids through college drive a decent car etc on 55k then you badly needed the reality check that is this recession (and more) IMO

SLUSK

_Kooli_ wrote: »

You are right, people who get themselves into debt have only themselves to blame.

Do you really have zero income or are you just exaggerating for effect. Do you get any dole, childrens allowance, rent allowance etc?

I moved back to Sweden because I had it after 2 years in Ireland. In Sweden I am entitled to no social welfare whatsoever. My income is €0.0 at the moment.

kippy

destroyer wrote: »

If you cant feed you family, put kids through college drive a decent car etc on 55k then you badly needed the reality check that is this recession (and more) IMO

No one said you couldnt do those specific things on that money..........

The_Honeybadger

kippy wrote: »

No one said you couldnt do those specific things on that money..........

I think a lady on primetime said she was earning 55k or something like it and couldn't "make ends meet". Scary stuff indeed. To be honest I cant envisage a situation where I'll ever make much more than that so I guess I'm destined for a life of poverty. I suppose it depends on where you live too, it is definately more expensive to live in Dublin or near it whereas the euro stretces alot further in rural Ireland where I live. Rent and services are definately cheaper here.

hellboy99

mickeyk wrote: »

it is definately more expensive to live in Dublin or near it whereas the euro stretces alot further in rural Ireland where I live. Rent and services are definately cheaper here.

A single person earning 55k can't make ends meet, come on, they are doing something seriously wrong or a big time gambler.

The_Conductor

hellboy99 wrote: »

they are doing something seriously wrong or a big time gambler.

Buying property in Ireland over the past 12 years, has, as people are slowly beginning to realise, been the biggest gamble of their lives. The last time we had property for sale here at internationally accepted 'normal' income multiples was in the mid 1990s. By 2000- property was 20% over valued- and hundreds of thousands of people ploughed in nonetheless. Now that the second income on which many mortgage repayments were based, has been lost- in many cases- people are in genuinely difficulty- despite being on what you and most normal people would consider to be reasonable salaries. When interest rates begin to rise late next year- things are going to reach breaking point for a whole lot more people........

The_Honeybadger

hellboy99 wrote: »

A single person earning 55k can't make ends meet, come on, they are doing something seriously wrong or a big time gambler.

I think the exact quote was "whats the point working when you can't even make ends meet?". I didn't see the program and I have no idea how she does her household budget but myself and my fiancee & two kids manage well on about 40k between us (even though i was earning a good deal more than this on my own between 2005-2008), and are even saving a bit. I suppose some people get used to super salaries and can't wean themselves off a lifestyle where they don't have to think before they whip out the credit card. I'd be seriously embaressed if I was her, I saw a figure today that said 80% of the workforce earn less than her.

The_Honeybadger

smccarrick wrote: »

Buying property in Ireland over the past 12 years, has, as people are slowly beginning to realise, been the biggest gamble of their lives. The last time we had property for sale here at internationally accepted 'normal' income multiples was in the mid 1990s. By 2000- property was 20% over valued- and hundreds of thousands of people ploughed in nonetheless. Now that the second income on which many mortgage repayments were based, has been lost- in many cases- people are in genuinely difficulty- despite being on what you and most normal people would consider to be reasonable salaries. When interest rates begin to rise late next year- things are going to reach breaking point for a whole lot more people........

Certainly a valid point but I don't think it's fair on the rest of the country or future generations to maintain clearly overpaying people because they took a gamble and lost. I'm not saying you are suggesting this but alot of people are.

The_Conductor

mickeyk wrote: »

Certainly a valid point but I don't think it's fair on the rest of the country or future generations to maintain clearly overpaying people because they took a gamble and lost. I'm not saying you are suggesting this but alot of people are.

You are correct- we need to drive down salaries- but in tandem with this- we also need to drive down the cost of living in Ireland. At the moment we have the most expensive electricity and the second most expensive gas in Europe- clearly both are necessities in most cases- as are basic groceries etc. It should not be necessary to pay someone 40k for them to have an identical standard of living to someone on £20k in London- but the simple fact of the matter is- that is where we are at.

It is expensive in Ireland- and high/higher salaries are one aspect of this. We need to reinvent the Irish economy from the bottom up.

dekbhoy

When i was earning 400 euro a week i always said if i only had another 100 i would be ok , then when i was earning 500 the same happened , fast forward till today , im now earning nearly 70k(will be over 70 if we get the 3.5% but thats another story)and im still struggling to survive , so its all relevant imo, the more ya have the more ya spend, mind you i have a lot of outgoings as a result of bad financial decisions:mad:

The_Honeybadger

smccarrick wrote: »

You are correct- we need to drive down salaries- but in tandem with this- we also need to drive down the cost of living in Ireland. At the moment we have the most expensive electricity and the second most expensive gas in Europe- clearly both are necessities in most cases- as are basic groceries etc. It should not be necessary to pay someone 40k for them to have an identical standard of living to someone on £20k in London- but the simple fact of the matter is- that is where we are at.

It is expensive in Ireland- and high/higher salaries are one aspect of this. We need to reinvent the Irish economy from the bottom up.

Agree with everything you've said there but where would you start. I have mixed feeling about the PS taking a cut as I have family and friends in it, however on the other hand my sister in law who is my age spent 3 years doing a primary teaching degree and earns over 40k, whereas I spent 6 years getting up to M.S.c level and earn 32k-somethin ain't right there. Agree electricity, professional fees & groceries etc are all too expensive but where would you start. It's so depressing living here at the moment amid all this anger and bewildement. Government really needs to step up now and get a handle on things but of course they wont.

Gurgle

saol alainn wrote: »

What's wrong with a 10 year old car? I've an 00 fiesta and will only say goodbye to it when either me or it pop our cork.

Absolutely nothing, I've a '97 :P

And despite some poor financial decisions (one, and it wasn't property related), having a family and some semblance of a social life - I'm living quite comfortably and not accruing debts.

I never said €55k wasn't a 'good' wage, the word I argued with was 'massive'.

hellboy99

smccarrick wrote: »

Buying property in Ireland over the past 12 years, has, as people are slowly beginning to realise, been the biggest gamble of their lives. The last time we had property for sale here at internationally accepted 'normal' income multiples was in the mid 1990s. By 2000- property was 20% over valued- and hundreds of thousands of people ploughed in nonetheless. Now that the second income on which many mortgage repayments were based, has been lost- in many cases- people are in genuinely difficulty- despite being on what you and most normal people would consider to be reasonable salaries. When interest rates begin to rise late next year- things are going to reach breaking point for a whole lot more people........

That's all true, but my point was made in the case of the single woman on 55k and can't make ends meet.

old boy

hellboy99 wrote: »

That's all true, but my point was made in the case of the single woman on 55k and can't make ends meet.

then what the hell chance have the people on the bottom of the food chain got, if she cannot manage on 55k.

Fentdog84

Since when is 55,000 not a good wage?

Ans: since we started breeding yuppies like yer wan who think this is Hollywood not Ireland..

seclachi

55,000 is plenty, until you pile a mortgage and car loan and credit card on top of it. People will always live right up to there means, dont ask me why. I could never bear to have credit card debt like some people do, the interest is so punitive, but I guess the motto of the country for the past decade has been "Why wait when you can borrow". I think the biggest problem is that these people are in negative equity now, so they cant downsize without taking a big hit.

thebman

Fentdog84 wrote: »

Since when is 55,000 not a good wage?

Ans: since we started breeding yuppies like yer wan who think this is Hollywood not Ireland..

lol even Hollywood isn't Hollywood anymore, California is broke and using IOU's.

_Kooli_

mickeyk wrote: »

Agree with everything you've said there but where would you start. I have mixed feeling about the PS taking a cut as I have family and friends in it, however on the other hand my sister in law who is my age spent 3 years doing a primary teaching degree and earns over 40k, whereas I spent 6 years getting up to M.S.c level and earn 32k-somethin ain't right there. Agree electricity, professional fees & groceries etc are all too expensive but where would you start. It's so depressing living here at the moment amid all this anger and bewildement. Government really needs to step up now and get a handle on things but of course they wont.

You are right about the cost of living here. It is too high.

I noticed you are not happy that your sister did 3 years less than you and gets paid more.

Simply, You chose the wrong career. Should have followed your sister or took a career path that paid you more in the private sector.

If you had picked certain jobs in the private sector you could be easily getting paid 35k + after 3 years in uni too.

The length of time you spend on a masters has absolutely nothing to do with how much you earn. Its your ability to forge a career and make the changes required which will mive you up the scale.

Its amazing how people think that others get paid more than them are somehow lucky. Its about choices and work (on your career, not necessarily just your job or education).

Your future is in your own hands. Dont be afraid to make changes that benefit you.


Complaining about how much others get paid wont get you paid anymore.

bridgitt

smccarrick wrote: »

It should not be necessary to pay someone 40k for them to have an identical standard of living to someone on £20k in London- but the simple fact of the matter is- that is where we are at.

Rubbish. It is not 50% cheaper to live in London. Your Lidl , Aldi, rent bills etc here would not be 20,000 a year more than in Ireland. Some things are cheaper in Ireland than in London eg petrol, rent etc. There are parts of Ireland where you can buy a fine apartment now for 80k, and a three bed house brand new for less than 120k. And you can go abroad for your holidays from Ireland just as cheaply and easily as from London. The vast majority in the private sector earn less than 40k a year, and have no choice. They cannot go on strike or hold the country to ransom.
Many people in these times would love to be on 20k euro a year, never mind 40k.

old boy

i am on 10.4k i cannot go on strike, i can manage, well barely, and an income cut coming on dec 3rd, some people do not realise when they are well off.