Primetime 24/11: Since when is 55,000 not a good wage?

rossithelegend

10.4K for how many hours a week?

murphaph

_Kooli_ wrote: »

You are right about the cost of living here. It is too high.

I noticed you are not happy that your sister did 3 years less than you and gets paid more.

Simply, You chose the wrong career. Should have followed your sister or took a career path that paid you more in the private sector.

If you had picked certain jobs in the private sector you could be easily getting paid 35k + after 3 years in uni too.

The length of time you spend on a masters has absolutely nothing to do with how much you earn. Its your ability to forge a career and make the changes required which will mive you up the scale.

Its amazing how people think that others get paid more than them are somehow lucky. Its about choices and work (on your career, not necessarily just your job or education).

Your future is in your own hands. Dont be afraid to make changes that benefit you.


Complaining about how much others get paid wont get you paid anymore.

But he is a scientist. It's the people like him working in the Wyeth's/Pfizers etc. that are keeping the few shillings flowing into the septic isle. If everyone did accountancy, law or a H.Dip where would Ireland be? We need scientists to attract inward investment yet they are not rewarded for their efforts. In other countries (like Germany) scientists and engineers are respected and earn decent money. In Ireland that is not the case and it is not good.

_Kooli_

murphaph wrote: »

But he is a scientist. It's the people like him working in the Wyeth's/Pfizers etc. that are keeping the few shillings flowing into the septic isle. If everyone did accountancy, law or a H.Dip where would Ireland be? We need scientists to attract inward investment yet they are not rewarded for their efforts. In other countries (like Germany) scientists and engineers are respected and earn decent money. In Ireland that is not the case and it is not good.

Im not saying he doesnt do a good job and shouldnt be respected for it. Im saying its his choice not to follow the money, so not to feel hard done by by others who did make the right choices to get to the money. If he wants to be paid more, then find out how to take your career along a path that will get you more.

Some might say that a job is not about the money. Fair enough for them, but if they say that they lose the right to criticize others who make more money than them. And from reading the posts everywhere for the last year, it seems that for everyone its about the money (or more about that someone else is making more money than them). People dont like seeing others earning more than them.

_Kooli_

bridgitt wrote: »

Rubbish. It is not 50% cheaper to live in London. Your Lidl , Aldi, rent bills etc here would not be 20,000 a year more than in Ireland. Some things are cheaper in Ireland than in London eg petrol, rent etc. There are parts of Ireland where you can buy a fine apartment now for 80k, and a three bed house brand new for less than 120k. And you can go abroad for your holidays from Ireland just as cheaply and easily as from London. The vast majority in the private sector earn less than 40k a year, and have no choice. They cannot go on strike or hold the country to ransom.
Many people in these times would love to be on 20k euro a year, never mind 40k.

Now that is complete rubbish. You are not even comparing like with like for a start. You compare London to "parts of Ireland where you can buy a 3 bed house for 120K". So tell us, exactly which parts of Ireland are you comparing to London and then we can go into the cost of living in London (which i know a lot about) and how it compares.

Hint : the cost of living in London is far cheaper than the cost of living in Dublin

murphaph

_Kooli_ wrote: »

Im not saying he doesnt do a good job and shouldnt be respected for it. Im saying its his choice not to follow the money, so not to feel hard done by by others who did make the right choices to get to the money. If he wants to be paid more, then find out how to take your career along a path that will get you more.

Some might say that a job is not about the money. Fair enough for them, but if they say that they lose the right to criticize others who make more money than them. And from reading the posts everywhere for the last year, it seems that for everyone its about the money (or more about that someone else is making more money than them). People dont like seeing others earning more than them.

My point is really that it's a national failure that professions such as engineering and science get little respect and little financial reward (outside possibly civil engineers in construction during the boom) for their studies in Ireland, a country that promotes itself (falsely IMO) as a 'knowledge economy' whereas professions which involve moving money around and minimising tax liabilities, or legal professions (neither of which actually lead to the betterment of human life, society or anything really) make a great deal more money in Ireland. I believe it's symptomatic of the nature of the country that professions who do things that don't really benefit society as a whole get rewarded to a much higher degree than a scientist developing a new drug treatment etc. It's sad to me. An engineer in Germany would be just as likely to take home as good or better a salary as their equivalent of a solicitor or an accountant. It shows a different outlook on life and what is important for Germany (developing things) as opposed to what is important for Ireland (avoiding things).

I'm not disputing for a second that the poster could have made the choice to be another solicitor or accountant (the world does need them to a degree) and made more money, just that it's sad that these professions earn so much more in Ireland relative to people who create new things to make life easier for us all.

gollem_1975

_Kooli_ wrote: »

Complaining about how much others get paid wont get you paid anymore.

sounds pretty much like Benchmarking to me.

gollem_1975

_Kooli_ wrote: »

You are right about the cost of living here. It is too high.

I noticed you are not happy that your sister did 3 years less than you and gets paid more.

Simply, You chose the wrong career. Should have followed your sister or took a career path that paid you more in the private sector.

If you had picked certain jobs in the private sector you could be easily getting paid 35k + after 3 years in uni too.

The length of time you spend on a masters has absolutely nothing to do with how much you earn. Its your ability to forge a career and make the changes required which will mive you up the scale.

Its amazing how people think that others get paid more than them are somehow lucky. Its about choices and work (on your career, not necessarily just your job or education).

Your future is in your own hands. Dont be afraid to make changes that benefit you.


Complaining about how much others get paid wont get you paid anymore.

thing is people working in the public sector weren't necessarily choosing the job because of the pay.. it was the security and the pension..coupled with the fact that since the founding of the state other than farming or emigration there weren't many other attractive employment choices.

now in the most recent decade in addition to the favourable terms and conditions the public sector also wanted increased pay.

I felt that the rates of increase in public sector pay was excessive and now it appears that they can not be sustained.

as Murphaph says Ireland should be trying to encourage our young and talented to go into the science and IT professions ... the so-called smart economy .. rather than giving them additional encouragement to go straight into safe and secure public sector jobs and the professions.

_Kooli_

murphaph wrote: »

My point is really that it's a national failure that professions such as engineering and science get little respect and little financial reward (outside possibly civil engineers in construction during the boom) for their studies in Ireland, a country that promotes itself (falsely IMO) as a 'knowledge economy' whereas professions which involve moving money around and minimising tax liabilities, or legal professions (neither of which actually lead to the betterment of human life, society or anything really) make a great deal more money in Ireland. I believe it's symptomatic of the nature of the country that professions who do things that don't really benefit society as a whole get rewarded to a much higher degree than a scientist developing a new drug treatment etc. It's sad to me. An engineer in Germany would be just as likely to take home as good or better a salary as their equivalent of a solicitor or an accountant. It shows a different outlook on life and what is important for Germany (developing things) as opposed to what is important for Ireland (avoiding things).

I'm not disputing for a second that the poster could have made the choice to be another solicitor or accountant (the world does need them to a degree) and made more money, just that it's sad that these professions earn so much more in Ireland relative to people who create new things to make life easier for us all.

Scientists and engineers are well respected and well paid here. But, as in other countries, the ones at the top of their game earn the money. If you want to be a scientist or engineer who colours by the numbers you will not distance yourself from the many thousands of others who are the same. You must push your career. Supply and demand.

Be the one in short supply and in great demand.

_Kooli_

gollem_1975 wrote: »

thing is people working in the public sector weren't necessarily choosing the job because of the pay.. it was the security and the pension..coupled with the fact that since the founding of the state other than farming or emigration there weren't many other attractive employment choices.

now in the most recent decade in addition to the favourable terms and conditions the public sector also wanted increased pay.

I felt that the rates of increase in public sector pay was excessive and now it appears that they can not be sustained.

as Murphaph says Ireland should be trying to encourage our young and talented to go into the science and IT professions ... the so-called smart economy .. rather than giving them additional encouragement to go straight into safe and secure public sector jobs and the professions.

All part of the renumeration. We all could have chosen the public sector if we wanted.

The private sector has been cleaning up for many years now. If you put yourself in a position where you are in demand you will still have a job and be well paid in it. If you didnt and left yourself open to an economic crash with no get out - well look in the mirror for blame. Dont look at others with jobs they chose years ago and envy them.

_Kooli_

gollem_1975 wrote: »

sounds pretty much like Benchmarking to me.

I didnt see anyone in the public sector asking for the private sector workers wages to be reduced during benchmarking.

They elected to improve their own position, instead of trying to pull the rest down. This country is so full of begrudgers its unreal. Everyone hates anyone who is doing better than themselves. Sad.

MysticalRain

_Kooli_ wrote: »

All part of the renumeration. We all could have chosen the public sector if we wanted.

The private sector has been cleaning up for many years now. If you put yourself in a position where you are in demand you will still have a job and be well paid in it. If you didnt and left yourself open to an economic crash with no get out - well look in the mirror for blame. Dont look at others with jobs they chose years ago and envy them.

Well either way, the country is broke and can no longer afford to maintain the current pay levels in the public sector. You can't have one section of society getting it in the neck while being expected to fund another section that thinks they should be immune from the economic downturn. I think there would be an awful lot less aggro and begrudgery from the private sector if we weren't hearing sob stories from civil servants on 55k a year claiming they can no longer maintain the kind of yuppie lifestyle which they had become accustomed to.

As for "supply and demand"...choosing the right career and all that. Well many of us did think long and hard about the career we chose. People in the building industry thought that was a safe bet during this decade. People in IT thought that was a safe career choice during the previous decade. People also thought teaching would be a safe bet, and now there is 800 unemployed teachers. So it turns out it can be very hard to predict what the economic future will look like. Some of us got lucky, and some of us didn't. Don't think it might not happen to yourself someday no matter how indispensable you think you might be at the moment.

murphaph

_Kooli_ wrote: »

Scientists and engineers are well respected and well paid here.

In general this is not true, at least not in comparison to Germany or the US I find. In Ireland I experienced companies who gave people the title "Engineer" without them even holding a degree, perhaps just a cert or dip. This NEVER happens in Germany at least. I knew plenty of (good) experienced engineers on a lot less than a point 14 teacher, just as an example. I know engineers who really knew their stuff who are now working as manufacturing technicians on 24/7 shifts-if they want to use their skills they would have to leave Ireland, such is the lack of R&D that goes on there. They have families in ireland and can't simply leave. Ireland is not a good place to forge a career as an engineer or a scientist, that's a fact I'm afraid.

_Kooli_ wrote: »

But, as in other countries, the ones at the top of their game earn the money. If you want to be a scientist or engineer who colours by the numbers you will not distance yourself from the many thousands of others who are the same.

There are mediocre engineers alright, no denying that but in general it is the job of an engineer to come up with solutions to practical problems. Even engineers 'down the pecking order' have to be creative tbh.

_Kooli_ wrote: »

You must push your career. Supply and demand.

Be the one in short supply and in great demand.

But this is not the way it works in the Public Sector to earn a great salary-you just have to stick around long enough and you'll get it, mediocre performance or otherwise, a teacher on point 14 will still get that 60k. Hardly seems fair, does it?

gollem_1975

_Kooli_ wrote: »

I didnt see anyone in the public sector asking for the private sector workers wages to be reduced during benchmarking.

They elected to improve their own position, instead of trying to pull the rest down. This country is so full of begrudgers its unreal. Everyone hates anyone who is doing better than themselves. Sad.

don't worry the country is full of ****-stirrers,wags and wind-up merchants too

the lunatics really would be ruling the asylum if the public sector unions were calling on private sector wages to be reduced! on the other hand I don't recall the unions asking for taxes to be increased in other to pay for themselves either :-)

gollem_1975

_Kooli_ wrote: »

Hint : the cost of living in London is far cheaper than the cost of living in Dublin

not any more dude

http://www.finfacts.ie/costofliving.htm

i wouldn't have said that London was ever far cheaper than Dublin ( maybe before the Act of Union it was :-) )

if you had said Manchester, Glasgow or Birmingham then it would be a different story altogether

_Kooli_

gollem_1975 wrote: »

not any more dude

http://www.finfacts.ie/costofliving.htm

i wouldn't have said that London was ever far cheaper than Dublin ( maybe before the Act of Union it was :-) )

if you had said Manchester, Glasgow or Birmingham then it would be a different story altogether

Funny that. Im over there a lot and i get far more bang for my buck than i do in Dublin. And i can get public transport where i want it too.

RedPlanet

sorry but i really think that's a crock of sh*te.

Dublin ranks below Paris (13th)

I recently spent a week in Paris and everything was cheaper.

gollem_1975

RedPlanet wrote: »

sorry but i really think that's a crock of sh*te.

I recently spent a week in Paris and everything was cheaper.

hey don't shoot the messenger lads

what was the price of a pint in Paris by the way ?

ei.sdraob

gollem_1975 wrote: »

hey don't shoot the messenger lads

what was the price of a pint in Paris by the way ?

they dont drink pints there

gollem_1975

I think the reason why we appear to get more bang for our buck when we go abroad is because of our relatively high wage levels in comparison to wages in the places we are visiting.

this is a reason why tourists probably don't get bang for their buck when they come here.

members of boards.ie : would we rather keep our salaries high ( which is unsustainable imo ) so that those with jobs can get more bang for their buck when they go abroad or should we try to keep our salaries low so that we are an attractive location for foreign tourists to visit and for foreign investors/MNC's to create jobs ?

rossithelegend

It all depends on what your intepretation of a High Salary is????

gollem_1975

good man Rossithelegend ... thanks for bringing this thread back on topic

asdasd

Except of course that Ross is merely parrotting what others have said in this thread. To be fair: he is a newbie.

I dont think you can legitimately say that wages are determined by interpretation. It might be that someone on 5M a year would see 2M a year as penury, but so what. It would be in the top 0.01% so it is, qualitively, a high wage.

rossithelegend

Thanks god a bit of sanity i was worried about the reply's I'd get, different people will have different perceptions of what is acceptable, low or high standard when it comes to anything wages, working conditions etc. I'm a talker always have been always will be and I love dealing with the public where as others I know wouldn't do it for all the tea in China hence the reason that this thread could go on and on and on and NO one can really make any judgement on who deserves what, unless they know every intricate detail of their circumstances!

_Kooli_

gollem_1975 wrote: »

I think the reason why we appear to get more bang for our buck when we go abroad is because of our relatively high wage levels in comparison to wages in the places we are visiting.

this is a reason why tourists probably don't get bang for their buck when they come here.

members of boards.ie : would we rather keep our salaries high ( which is unsustainable imo ) so that those with jobs can get more bang for their buck when they go abroad or should we try to keep our salaries low so that we are an attractive location for foreign tourists to visit and for foreign investors/MNC's to create jobs ?

If i spend €100 here i get less value for it than if i spend that €100 in London.

Nothing to do with my salary.

Of course it could be argued that my salary over the years is what drove up the cost of living. But i would get more for what i work at in London too

gollem_1975

_Kooli_ wrote: »

If i spend €100 here i get less value for it than if i spend that €100 in London.

Nothing to do with my salary.

Of course it could be argued that my salary over the years is what drove up the cost of living. But i would get more for what i work at in London too

it relates to your salary , though more accurately ALL of our combined salaries , in that average salaries , minimum wage etc. are higher in Ireland than they are in a lot of other EU countries.
hence your €100 will buy you more goods and services in these cities then it would in Ireland

I'm not an economist but I do know that wages and prices are linked.

MaceFace

RedPlanet wrote: »

sorry but i really think that's a crock of sh*te.

I recently spent a week in Paris and everything was cheaper.

Hang on there a sec.
Paris and London are incredibly expensive if you live there.
Property cost a fortune compared to here and you generally have to live a good distance away.
Do you know how much a monthly ticket for the tube (6 zones) is?

Last time I was in Paris I paid over €9 for a pint. 9 flaming Euro.

The_Honeybadger

_Kooli_ wrote: »

You are right about the cost of living here. It is too high.

I noticed you are not happy that your sister did 3 years less than you and gets paid more.

Simply, You chose the wrong career. Should have followed your sister or took a career path that paid you more in the private sector.

If you had picked certain jobs in the private sector you could be easily getting paid 35k + after 3 years in uni too.

The length of time you spend on a masters has absolutely nothing to do with how much you earn. Its your ability to forge a career and make the changes required which will mive you up the scale.

Its amazing how people think that others get paid more than them are somehow lucky. Its about choices and work (on your career, not necessarily just your job or education).

Your future is in your own hands. Dont be afraid to make changes that benefit you.


Complaining about how much others get paid wont get you paid anymore.

I don't accept that I chose the wrong career, teaching and PS life was definately not for me I subbed in a primary school for a short time when I had a bit of a break from work after travelling and know that. I like what I do and wouldn't want a job in the public sector. Like many others I was unlucky in that I was in good employment up until recently enough and lost out due to the recession. I'm not one of the "lets burn the PS at the stake" cry-baby brigade but i do think they should acknowledge what they have (secure well paid employment), higher paid PS's definately need to adjust to the new reality and people cribbing on primetime that they cant survive on 55k gets me a little annoyed i admit, and it certainly doesn't help the PS cause if they are looking for sympathy. I hope to start again in my career and will be up to a decent salary again in the future if and when we emerge from recession and companies start hiring again, but you really shouldn't tell people they chose the wrong career when you know little about what their situation is.

seclachi

mickeyk wrote: »

but you really shouldn't tell people they chose the wrong career when you know little about what their situation is.

More importantly, you should pick a career because you like it, not because it earns you the most money. I dont care what anyone says, a big house and car are worthless to me if I have to spend 40+ hours a week bored or in a living hell..

Peanut

MaceFace wrote: »

Last time I was in Paris I paid over €9 for a pint. 9 flaming Euro.

Beer in the supermarkets is very cheap though, at least it was the last time I looked a few years ago.

Now if you really want cheap alcohol, come to Bulgaria.. 80c or so for a 500ml bottle of Heineken, the local pish even cheaper.

starbelgrade

Peanut wrote: »

Beer in the supermarkets is very cheap though, at least it was the last time I looked a few years ago.

Now if you really want cheap alcohol, come to Bulgaria.. 80c or so for a 500ml bottle of Heineken, the local pish even cheaper.

That's 68,750 bottles on a €55K wage (after tax), which is 188 odd bottles per day. Now, if you judge wages & standards of living by the amount of beer you can buy, that's pretty OK. But then again, if that's how you judge your life & standards of living... rehab? or posting in After Hours or both?