Primetime 24/11: Since when is 55,000 not a good wage?

asdasd

Property cost a fortune compared to here and you generally have to live a good distance away.

No, it doesnt. No, you don't. Not in Paris. it is quite easy to live and walk to work in paris, or take 2-3 stops on the metro. Its a built up city.

Head The Wall

You need to live in a city to judge how much it costs to live there. Visiting for a weekend will tell you a little bit but in reality there will be a lot more than that. Fuel, cars, tax, hobbies, socialising, insurance, parking, heating, gas, foodstuffs, rates, doctor or dentist visits etc

Diarmuid

asdasd wrote: »

No, it doesnt. No, you don't. Not in Paris. it is quite easy to live and walk to work in paris, or take 2-3 stops on the metro. Its a built up city.

Judging by this thread, people here would have a canary if they were asked to work on French wages.

_Kooli_

seclachi wrote: »

More importantly, you should pick a career because you like it, not because it earns you the most money. I dont care what anyone says, a big house and car are worthless to me if I have to spend 40+ hours a week bored or in a living hell..

You are right. Pick a career you like. But if someone is going to get jealous of others who make more money, have more days off or have less hours than them then they obviously didnt pick one they are happy in. If they want to pull someone else down instead of picking themselves up and improving their career, they are definitely happy arent they .. not.

Gurgle

starbelgrade wrote: »

Now, if you judge wages & standards of living by the amount of beer you can buy...

then you've obviously got some growing up to do.

Incidentally, off-license beer is one of the few commodities which got cheaper during the boom with the opening up of the European market - i.e. Lidl and Aldi moving in.

thebman

Head The Wall wrote: »

You need to live in a city to judge how much it costs to live there. Visiting for a weekend will tell you a little bit but in reality there will be a lot more than that. Fuel, cars, tax, hobbies, socialising, insurance, parking, heating, gas, foodstuffs, rates, doctor or dentist visits etc

You shouldn't need a car to get around if you live in a proper city and not just a big town.

Stark

Gurgle wrote: »

then you've obviously got some growing up to do.

Incidentally, off-license beer is one of the few commodities which got cheaper during the boom with the opening up of the European market - i.e. Lidl and Aldi moving in.

That's why we need anti off-license laws like 10pm closure. Can't have the cartel-lords/FF backbenchers/publicans suffering.

Head The Wall

thebman wrote: »

You shouldn't need a car to get around if you live in a proper city and not just a big town.

What if you need it for work, want to get out of the city when ever you want, going places not in the city.

There is a whole world outside the city you live in. It's talking nonsense to say theres good public transport so you don't need a car for anything

jester77

Head The Wall wrote: »

What if you need it for work, want to get out of the city when ever you want, going places not in the city.

There is a whole world outside the city you live in. It's talking nonsense to say theres good public transport so you don't need a car for anything

It's not nonsense. I live in a city with good public transport that runs 24/7 and on time. Actually I don't even know if it's on time as there is a bus or train every 3 or 4 minutes. Getting out of the city is easy, lots of regional and intercity trains as well as a few airports near by. Had a car, it was used twice in 12 months so was gotten rid of.

asdasd

Cars can be rented.

_Kooli_

http://www.zipcar.com/

http://zipcar.co.uk/

Head The Wall

Very narrow minded to think that you will never need your own transport for the duration of your life. Where's your independence, you're essentially saying that you can't make the choice to go where ever you want when ever you want e.g what if you want to leave the Cliffs of Moher at 10 PM to go back to Cork what public transport will sort that out.

Sounds like ye are just argueing for the sake of argueing

MaceFace

asdasd wrote: »

No, it doesnt. No, you don't. Not in Paris. it is quite easy to live and walk to work in paris, or take 2-3 stops on the metro. Its a built up city.

How much is a 3 bed semi-d within 8 miles of the center or Paris?

The_Conductor

MaceFace wrote: »

How much is a 3 bed semi-d within 8 miles of the center or Paris?

3 bed apartment in the 9th District of Paris (direction of Gare du Nord) = EUR140k

3 bed terrace Elephant and Castle = £199k (note this represents a 50% fall on peak prices)

Both are within walking distance of the financial districts (though perhaps not in the salubrius of districts).

thebman

Head The Wall wrote: »

Very narrow minded to think that you will never need your own transport for the duration of your life. Where's your independence, you're essentially saying that you can't make the choice to go where ever you want when ever you want e.g what if you want to leave the Cliffs of Moher at 10 PM to go back to Cork what public transport will sort that out.

Sounds like ye are just argueing for the sake of argueing

Pubic transport and having the ability to rent a car if you need one is independence.

Half the time in a city it will take you longer to get somewhere by car than on public transport.

Irish people have an obsession with their cars even in places where they don't really need them. Isn't the whole point of being in a city that you are nearer the services and thats why you take the hit on rent.

You choose to have the luxury of owning a car, it is not a need in a city. It is a need in rural Ireland where public transport doesn't exist.

Head The Wall

Renting a car is hardly a split minute decision, what about an emergency in the middle of the night, travel to your nearest airport where you can rent a car 24 hrs, I don't think so.

Maybe some people have their lives planned perfectly out in advance - prisoners maybe.

thebman

Head The Wall wrote: »

Renting a car is hardly a split minute decision, what about an emergency in the middle of the night, travel to your nearest airport where you can rent a car 24 hrs, I don't think so.

Maybe some people have their lives planned perfectly out in advance - prisoners maybe.

Emergency dial 999.

Needing bread isn't an emergency.

jester77

Head The Wall wrote: »

Renting a car is hardly a split minute decision, what about an emergency in the middle of the night, travel to your nearest airport where you can rent a car 24 hrs, I don't think so.

Maybe some people have their lives planned perfectly out in advance - prisoners maybe.

What sort of emergency would arise in the middle of the night that you would need a car?

If it's a medical emergency then call the emergency doctor and they would be there in less than 5 minutes, something more serious and an ambulance would also be there in less than 5 mins.

erictheviking

thebman wrote: »

Pubic transport and having the ability to rent a car if you need one is independence.

Half the time in a city it will take you longer to get somewhere by car than on public transport.

All that means is that 50% of the time it will take longer using public transport.

thebman wrote: »

You choose to have the luxury of owning a car, it is not a need in a city.

You 're not from the city are you?:rolleyes: If you want to get ...say from Tallaght to Lucan then public transport is absolutely crap! It will take you about 2 hours as you would need to get a bus to town then another one to Lucan, the same journey in a car would take 20 mins.!:pac: owning a car in a country where public transport is terrible is not a luxury.

PS as for the thread title I believe that for a married man with a stay at home missus,kids, mortgage etc. etc. etc. 55k is not the pot of gold its being made out to be!

thebman

erictheviking wrote: »

You 're not from the city are you?:rolleyes: If you want to get ...say from Tallaght to Lucan then public transport is absolutely crap! It will take you about 2 hours as you would need to get a bus to town then another one to Lucan, the same journey in a car would take 20 mins.!:pac: owning a car in a country where public transport is terrible is not a luxury.

You can do it though right? It may take an hour and 40 minutes longer but it is possible without a car?

So that makes the car a luxury as it isn't like 2 hours is an impractical length of time to get to somewhere. If it is only a once off you could get a taxi. Cheaper than buying a car/tax/insurance/fuel to get there.

People choose to be down that money is all I'm saying, its not necessary so you can't say you have to do it.

Head The Wall

So if your other half or a friend got stranded somwhere and needed a lift home late at night, that's not an emergency. Maybe they should sleep on the side of the road overnight or walk 40 miles.

Public transport is not the be all and end all in a city, it still has major limitations e.g routes, timetables, breakdowns etc

Maybe everyone should stay in this "ideal" perfect city and never leave it's environs because obviously the need will never arise

asdasd

Maybe they should sleep on the side of the road overnight or walk 40 miles.

I'd use a mobile phone and call a taxi. Of course in that one instance the taxi is more expensive than a car, but overall the cost of depreciation on cars is far greater than the cost of public transport, in which I include taxis, and the occasional rent of a car.

I live in England now. City central. I have nowhere to park a car. I rent in the Summer, but vast amounts of the country and cities ( and even Paris and other parts of the continent) are available to me via train.

Now, our milage may vary ( to use an apt phrase). I think that some people in cities may need a car, particularly those on the outskirts. Dublin's centralised bus service is a crime. There is a crying need for feeder buses to a bus on the M50 which exits to dedicated bus stops just off the junctions, and hops back on.

I dont need a car though. Saves me buckets every year.

kippy

As a matter of interest, and this is slightly off topic but has anyone done any figures to work out how much tax the average irish citizen pays out in a year as a percentage of their gross wages?
I am talking income tax, PRSI, VAT, income levies, stealth taxes?
Would it be fair to assume that after all income taxes were paid the average citizen would pay out another 15-20 percent of the remainder on other taxation?

Also, I totally agree with the poster who mentioned that you can never tell how expensive to live in a certain area unless you have lived there for a length of time.
The weekend tourist does not see the true cost of living. I've noticed this most while in the US for a few months, and even then I did not see the true cost of living, but I was aware of it.
Its a relatively inexpensive place to visit but very expensive to live in.

asdasd

Its a relatively inexpensive place to visit but very expensive to live in.

That has to be rent, right?

Everything else that I can think of is cheaper in dollars than in Euros in Ireland, or even in sterling in the UK ( and I have lived there). Restuarant prices are about the same. Food is cheaper. Petrol/ gas obviously cheaper. Designer clothing - cheaper. An Apple Mac - cheaper. Electronics - cheaper.

And of course it depends where you lived in the US. I have lived there.

In may ways prices in the US dont make sense. Or else european prices dont make sense.

EDIT:

Of course health is more expensive. But my company paid for that.

The_Conductor

Head The Wall wrote: »

Renting a car is hardly a split minute decision, what about an emergency in the middle of the night, travel to your nearest airport where you can rent a car 24 hrs, I don't think so.

Call a taxi like everyone else- or if its critical- call 112.

Lemming

smccarrick wrote: »

Call a taxi like everyone else- or if its critical- call 112.

• Not every "emergency" qualifies as 'emergency services' level
• Ever tried calling a taxi at 3am on a Saturday night? Point made? kthxbye

I could rattle off a thousand and one different scenarios to counter "sure why do you personally need a car?". Some would be contrived, some would not. It doesn't matter at the end of the day because no one person can tell you definitively that you do or do not need a car; and no two people's circumstances are so similar as to make one able to speak with authority on the subject of somebody else.

To argue that because you live in a city you do not need a car by default is not a simplistic argument; it is a "simple" argument. Some people can get away without using cars, some people can't. Such is life. Some people choose not to use cars, some people do. Such is life.


Edit: looking back at this; what the hell does whether or not Irish public transport in cities is up to scratch got to do with the topic?

kippy

asdasd wrote: »

That has to be rent, right?

Everything else that I can think of is cheaper in dollars than in Euros in Ireland, or even in sterling in the UK ( and I have lived there). Restuarant prices are about the same. Food is cheaper. Petrol/ gas obviously cheaper. Designer clothing - cheaper. An Apple Mac - cheaper. Electronics - cheaper.

And of course it depends where you lived in the US. I have lived there.

In may ways prices in the US dont make sense. Or else european prices dont make sense.

EDIT:

Of course health is more expensive. But my company paid for that.

Healthcare, Education both far more expensive, depending where you pick, rent/housing more expensive,less annual holidays (which essentially means you are working more), local taxes also vary wildly, again, depends where you live.

Healthcare and especially education are two massive costs.

seclachi

Lemming wrote: »

I could rattle off a thousand and one different scenarios to counter "sure why do you personally need a car?". Some would be contrived, some would not. It doesn't matter at the end of the day because no one person can tell you definitively that you do or do not need a car; and no two people's circumstances are so similar as to make one able to speak with authority on the subject of somebody else.

To argue that because you live in a city you do not need a car by default is not a simplistic argument; it is a "simple" argument. Some people can get away without using cars, some people can't. Such is life. Some people choose not to use cars, some people do. Such is life.

Exactly. In my career I work in industrial situations, most plants are located outside of towns and not on bus routes. Not that it matters as I may have to go to a plant up the country. Not owning a car just isnt practical. Its not a "unnecessary" expense if your whole career depends on you being able to get around easily. Not everybody lives in cities. Not everybodys place of work is within the city.

asdasd

Healthcare and especially education are two massive costs.

Ah, I wasnt worried about either as a single guy who didnt intend to stay. But yes saving for university, and having to pay for my own health care would have put a big dent in my pocket.

RodgerTheDoger

I am just going to put my own opinion in the mix.
I have not read every post on this thread but I am getting the idea from most of the comments.

Firstly I think the comment was that someone on 55K a year not being able to afford another cut in salary was from a school teacher on the Gerry Ryan show - He commented that due to his over inflated mortgage etc... He really could not afford to be on anything less than 55K therefore could not take a cut.

I think regardless of what we say and even what we do their will be cuts (There has to be) in all areas of the Irish economy. The unfortunate thing about this is, it is no longer in our own hands.
Ireland are in for the biggest economic re-adjustment of any other country.

The argument that "Well my mortgage" or anything you are still paying off from the boom will not matter. You will simply be a casualty of the economic process.

The idea of what people think is a good wage or even what they think they are entitled too will also not matter. As a nation what commodities do we have to offer? What can we sell to make money from other nations?

What we have is services, internal and external.
We are now somewhere in the region close to twice as expensive as Britain which is a very dangerours scenario to be in.

The money paid to anyone providing a servies whether it be public or private will eventually fall to the level which is compariable to what people are willing to pay. If the country is making 1/2 what they took duing the boom eventually peoples salaries will be cut by 1/2 or half the work force needs to go. If you argue we cannot do that what about education or healthcare etc.... We will have to do without - We do not have the money to support our current infastructure.

55k is at the moment would put you in the top 20% pay bracket.
In 1980 it would have probably put you in the top 2 %, where do you think the economy is going to go from here?