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Public Servants & Mortgages

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    #92
    MaceFace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭MaceFace


    TGPS wrote: »
    I'd stress that most people most of the tme are fine, but at least once day we have someone either insulted or shouted at and it's got to the stage where the staff shrug it off. I'm not sure if it's to do with the particular climate prevailing at the moment or a general decline in behaviour.

    In the last few months we have noticed a marked increase in people lashing accusations around of the staff being overpaid / under-worked etc. The irony being that the person they are hurling the abuse at is usually one of the lowest paid people in the place and has probably expended a good deal of effort in trying to resolve the matter in hand.

    Before it was understandable frustration being vented at the system - now it's irrational abuse being hurled at the person.


    Ah the sooner we get back to the 80's where everyone was poor, the better :-)


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    #93
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    OMD wrote: »
    Exactly. Everyone in public service should have pay reduced the same percentage and then tax those who can afford to pay more. The more they can afford the more tax they pay.

    NO... Not Exactly at all... You are making the opposite point I was trying to convey..
    The cuts need to be graded or they won't be fair..

    Tax is a different instrument, even back in the days I disagreed with the abolition of the 3rd high rate of tax and now it is going to cause pain to some streached households to get back to a proper tax system...pain that needs to happen.


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    #94
    OMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    bbam wrote: »
    NO... Not Exactly at all... You are making the opposite point I was trying to convey..
    The cuts need to be graded or they won't be fair..

    Tax is a different instrument, even back in the days I disagreed with the abolition of the 3rd high rate of tax and now it is going to cause pain to some streached households to get back to a proper tax system...pain that needs to happen.

    Yes exactly. Graded cuts are not fair. You cannot say how much someone can afford to pay based on their income. When pay was increased everyone benefited the same why should it be different on the way down. It is much fairer to base "fairness" on taxation and welfare. If you can afford it you pay more tax, if you cannot afford it you can benefit from supplementary welfare allowances.

    On the point of a third rate of tax, as put Howard at present it too is unfair. It is per individual earning over 100k. So again a couple each earning 99,999.99 will pay no extra tax despite earning €199999.98 A couple 1 earner getting €101,000 has to pay more tax. That is unfair.

    Ideally pay cuts should be performance related. Those doing a good value fir money job get the least cuts those doing a crap job get the biggest cuts, but that system is not too practical in public service.


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    #95
    Unwilling
    Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭Unwilling


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    (Some) members of the public service have became used to high income, which seemed the norm during the Celtic Pyramid years and consequently took on large mortgages/obligations.

    Unfortunately, times have changed, it looks like there will be large reductions in personal income and/or large tax increases, leaving a large gap in the personal balance sheet, with expenditure possibly exceeding income.

    In the event that pay cuts will be introduced, many members of the public service will still have large mortgages/obligations to address. i.e. reduced income with no major change in expenses.

    What plans do you have in place to deal with this?
    Will you seek to balance the books via reducing expenses, or will you cover the gap through borrowing?


    Bit confused here - what is your point? People in the private sector also got used to the high income and took on higher mortgages but are also being hit with not just pay cuts but enormous redundancies. For which companies are screwing them. So many members of the Private service will have these large obligations as you say.
    Are we also to expect the government to cover the gap through borrowing?

    You guys should count yourselves lucky that as Public Sector employees you have a VOICE. All be it ignored, you have a forum, you have a voice, you have people up in lights fighting your corner. Us little guys are just being let go on a daily basis with nothing.....nothing but out new cars and massive mortgages.


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    #96
    dan_d
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    Why is this thread called public servants and mortgages? This is a country wide problem, it's not limited to or tied to the public servants paycuts. Everyone's wages are coming down (cept for the chosen few, of course), so it's a problem facing everybody. It's the rock and hard place we've managed to back ourselves into - compounding our problems even further. I (naively) suppose that if we had NOT created a property bubble, but our wages had increased, it would possibly be as simple as cutting wages and waiting for prices to go down accordingly. BUT......the mortgages are kinda interfering with that. As in, yes the cost of living is dropping - slowly - but it doesn't take away the fact that we've got a huge problem with repaying mortgages.
    As for shopping up north, 2 words....money talks.So do prices.Haven't we all run off to the states for the last few years on massive spending sprees? What's the difference? That we were rolling in jobs and money then, and we aren't now, so it was okay?


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    #97
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Why oh why did ye drag this thread back up.

    It was a crud attempt to make an analogy of a public servant balancing their own financies, with the Govt doing the same with the country's finances by cutting Public Sector wages.


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    #98
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    Unwilling wrote: »
    Bit confused here - what is your point? People in the private sector also got used to the high income and took on higher mortgages but are also being hit with not just pay cuts but enormous redundancies. For which companies are screwing them. So many members of the Private service will have these large obligations as you say.
    Are we also to expect the government to cover the gap through borrowing?

    You guys should count yourselves lucky that as Public Sector employees you have a VOICE. All be it ignored, you have a forum, you have a voice, you have people up in lights fighting your corner. Us little guys are just being let go on a daily basis with nothing.....nothing but out new cars and massive mortgages.
    did you read all the posts on this old thread (not trying to be smart with you Unwilling). many of your points have already been thrashed out, decided upon.
    Non-Public Sector workers also have people to speak on their behalf, unions, representative bodies, professional bodies, elected politicians....


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