Everton may ground-share

flahavaj

Mr Alan wrote: »

re: the groundshare

isn't the point of a bigger ground that the extra revenue generated from bums on seats would help move the club forward?

is it not true that with Liverpool council being the ones who would build the stadium & supply the land that they would be taking a good chunk of the money taken on matchdays?

this is certainly the case in Italy where there is local groundshares that are funded by local councils.

Surely only for a set amount of time until the debt was paid off?

Long term the financial benefit would surely outweigh the cost, whether it was a council or private contracter building it.

flahavaj

rarnes1 wrote: »

Liverpool fans do not like Everton or anything to do with their club.

Why should we want to share a stadium with them?

Anyway, it's only Everton spouting sh!te regarding this. LFC are not interested.

You an Everton fan I take it?

Not a good enough reason to not do it, not when the reasons for doing so are so compelling.

Everton fan? LOL.

Bandit12

Why in god's name would Everton want to move to a ground with 60k+ seats? Their average attendance is around 32k over the course of the last decade.

Bluetonic

Look lads this had the potential to be a good debate on the pros and cons of a ground share but as is the norm had been ruined by the "We are Liverpool, don't you know what that means" sort of attitude.

Good evening and I hope you all find peace of mind.

flahavaj

Mr Alan wrote: »

would Everton honestly even be happy to play in a ground that would be half empty bar 3 or 4 games a season?

i'd have thought that would be a tad demoralising.

Why in god's name would Everton want to move to a ground with 60k+ seats? Their average attendance is around 32k over the course of the last decade.

I'm sure they're grateful at your concern, but let them worry about that.;)

Sure wouldn't it be something for ye to laugh at them about if the groundshare happens?:pac:

flahavaj

flahavaj wrote: »

Everton fan? LOL.

That might upset a few here.

Warper

I cant believe that some people are so naive to think that it is up to the fans whether they ground-share or not.

The Volt

Bandit12 wrote: »

Why in god's name would Everton want to move to a ground with 60k+ seats? Their average attendance is around 32k over the course of the last decade.

closer to 36k. Goodison Park doesn't fill on a regular basis due to almost 40% of the seats having some form of obstructed viewing. As much as I love the old dear we cannot stay there for much longer. It costs nearly a million a year to maintain and keep standing. Redevoloping isn't an option unfortunately, Kirkby should never have been an option but we've wasted years of potential planning there anyway, it was wrong from day one.

Re: Groundsharing, I personally would rather see Everton in their own home before this happened. The Merseyside Derby is perhaps the most unique in the world. In other cities, the derbies are much more defined (Protestant v Catholic, One side of the city to the other etc) but in Liverpool, there could be a family of four where it's split down the middle. I fear the rivalrly could be diffused somehow if there was a groundshare.

flahavaj

rarnes1 wrote: »

That might upset a few here.

Why? I'm not laughing at Everton. Just at the thought that I support them.:pac:

flahavaj

Warper wrote: »

I cant believe that some people are so naive to think that it is up to the fans whether they ground-share or not.

But look at how successful all those fan marches have been in getting rid of the Americans at Liverpool. Oh, wait.....

kippy

Warper wrote: »

I cant believe that some people are so naive to think that it is up to the fans whether they ground-share or not.

Yeah, some people think the fans have the power.
They are but the sheep/consumer in the nasty world of football business inc.
It is going to come down to a business decision for both clubs owners and the way things are going its becoming more and more of a realistic idea as time goes on.

Bandit12

Bluetonic wrote: »

Look lads this had the potential to be a good debate on the pros and cons of a ground share but as is the norm had been ruined by the "We are Liverpool, don't you know what that means" sort of attitude.

Good evening and I hope you all find peace of mind.

But it's a debate that Everton fans want. Liverpool fans don't want a ground share. Of course there's the odd LFC supporter who will want the ground share but the VAST majority don't. Go on to Rawk or any Liverpool forum and you'll find that out easily enough.

kippy

Voltwad wrote: »

closer to 36k. Goodison Park doesn't fill on a regular basis due to almost 40% of the seats having some form of obstructed viewing. As much as I love the old dear we cannot stay there for much longer. It costs nearly a million a year to maintain and keep standing. Redevoloping isn't an option unfortunately, Kirkby should never have been an option but we've wasted years of potential planning there anyway, it was wrong from day one.

Re: Groundsharing, I personally would rather see Everton in their own home before this happened. The Merseyside Derby is perhaps the most unique in the world. In other cities, the derbies are much more defined (Protestant v Catholic, One side of the city to the other etc) but in Liverpool, there could be a family of four where it's split down the middle. I fear the rivalrly could be diffused somehow if there was a groundshare.

Closer to 36 all right:
1992-93 19,504 (10) 1999-2k 34,828 (8) 2006-07 36,738 (7)
1993-94 22,876 (11*) 2000-01 33,945 (10) 2007-08 36,955 (9)
1994-95 31,291 (6) 2001-02 34,004 (10)
1995-96 35,294 (?) 2002-03 38,820 (7)
1996-97 36,186 (5) 2003-04 38,943 (5)
1997-98 35,355 (6) 2004-05 36,834 (8)
1998-99 36,203 (5) 2005-06 36,704 (7)
Averages for the PL era.

Its not just the bums on seats, its the whole matchday revenue thing, from catering bars merchendise etc etc, which a newer bigger stadium would probably be better at providing...

Mr Alan

What you's say about fans/consumers etc is true.

However that doesn't make it right.

If the majority of Liverpool fans are against the groundshare (i reckon from gauging the reactions online to todays discussions about 99% are strongly against it) then they should say that. they shouldnt say, "we dont want this at all, but we're only consumers so we should just accept whatever decisions our wonderful owners make"

& Flahavaj; mocking the fans protests against the american owners, whether SOS are successful in getting rid of the americans or not, people-if they should feel strongly enough about something, should protest & amke their feelings known. mocking them for not wanting to accept the situation is pathetic.

The Volt

Warper wrote: »

I cant believe that some people are so naive to think that it is up to the fans whether they ground-share or not.

And you think that fans should just keel over if they don't like how their club is being run?

flahavaj

flahavaj wrote: »

Why? I'm not laughing at Everton. Just at the thought that I support them.:pac:

Ok, and you aren't a Liverpool fan either so maybe that's why you might not understand each fans view on this properly ?

Btw, this isn't having a swipe.

kippy

Bandit12 wrote: »

But it's a debate that Everton fans want. Liverpool fans don't want a ground share. Of course there's the odd LFC supporter who will want the ground share but the VAST majority don't. Go on to Rawk or any Liverpool forum and you'll find that out easily enough.

If Liverpool fans drop out of the top 4 and are forced into player sales, forcing them to drop down the league, would they still be against it?

As I and others have said, the fans dont always (rarely) get what they want.

The Volt

kippy wrote: »

Closer to 36 all right:
1992-93 19,504 (10) 1999-2k 34,828 (8) 2006-07 36,738 (7)
1993-94 22,876 (11*) 2000-01 33,945 (10) 2007-08 36,955 (9)
1994-95 31,291 (6) 2001-02 34,004 (10)
1995-96 35,294 (?) 2002-03 38,820 (7)
1996-97 36,186 (5) 2003-04 38,943 (5)
1997-98 35,355 (6) 2004-05 36,834 (8)
1998-99 36,203 (5) 2005-06 36,704 (7)
Averages for the PL era.

Its not just the bums on seats, its the whole matchday revenue thing, from catering bars merchendise etc etc, which a newer bigger stadium would probably be better at providing...

The early 1990's the Park end was being re-developed but we usually hit around that. And you may judge for yourself when you try watching a game from the Lower Bullens end and pay £35 for it.

flahavaj

Mr Alan wrote: »

& Flahavaj; mocking the fans protests against the american owners, whether SOS are successful in getting rid of the americans or not, people-if they should feel strongly enough about something, should protest & amke their feelings known. mocking them for not wanting to accept the situation is pathetic.

Whoa, whoa there a minute. I wasn't mocking anyone. I was merely pointing out the fact that football has gotten so commercially driven that the voice of the fan has long since been muted. For all the noise that Liverpool fans have made about the Americans, they haven't paid a blind bit of notice.

Believe you me if I wanted to mock Liverpool fans you'd know all about it, my friend. Don't be so touchy.

Bandit12

kippy wrote: »

If Liverpool fans drop out of the top 4 and are forced into player sales, forcing them to drop down the league, would they still be against it?

As I and others have said, the fans dont always (rarely) get what they want.

IF liverpool drop out the top four. What happens IF everton drop out of the premiership.

flahavaj

rarnes1 wrote: »

Ok, and you aren't a Liverpool fan either so maybe that's why you might not understand each fans view on this properly ?

Why not? It could be easily applied to any team and their nearest rivals?

Ridiculous to say "you don't understand because you don't support Liverpool or Everton." Absolutely ridiculous.

flahavaj

flahavaj wrote: »

But look at how successful all those fan marches have been in getting rid of the Americans at Liverpool. Oh, wait.....

Seriously, what has this post to do with this discussion?

I can't take your posts seriously after this.

fkt

A ground share would signal the death of the soul of Liverpool football club.

I guarantee you it won't happen.

We will boycott games if need be. It won't happen.

kippy

Bandit12 wrote: »

IF liverpool drop out the top four. What happens IF everton drop out of the premiership.

I know which one of those scenarios is less likely........

flahavaj

rarnes1 wrote: »

Seriously, what has this post to do with this discussion?

I can't take your posts seriously after this.

It illustrates how little a voice the modern fan has?

Why are Liverpool fans getting so offended by that FFS?

The Volt

Bandit12 wrote: »

IF liverpool drop out the top four. What happens IF everton drop out of the premiership.

Lets not get carried away here. I know they say no team is too good to go down but despite our ****e performances of late, Jagielka, Neville and Arteta's return will ensure mid-table at least.

kippy

rarnes1 wrote: »

Seriously, what has this post to do with this discussion?

I can't take your posts seriously after this.

Its pretty relevant actually.
The fans (from what I can see), as with the stadium, dont want a certain thing.
They werernt able to stop the sale to the yanks and they havent been able to get them out since.......

kippy

fkt wrote: »

A ground share would signal the death of the soul of Liverpool football club.

I guarantee you it won't happen.

We will boycott games if need be. It won't happen.

come one, fans boycotting games doesnt work, especially at a club like liverpool, there'd be enough day trippers etc people waiting for seats who would go. of that I am sure.

kippy

kippy wrote: »

I know which one of those scenarios is less likely........

One club is 5 points of 4th.

The other 4 points of the bottom 3.

kippy

kippy wrote: »

Its pretty relevant actually.
The fans (from what I can see), as with the stadium, dont want a certain thing.
They werernt able to stop the sale to the yanks and they havent been able to get them out since.......

And your point is?

The Volt

rarnes1 wrote: »

One club is 5 points of 4th.

The other 4 points of the bottom 3.

And if Everton win on Sunday they're 2 points off Liverpool.

kippy

rarnes1 wrote: »

One club is 5 points of 4th.

The other 4 points of the bottom 3.

One club is 9 points off bottom, the other 4.
I still know which one of your scenarios is more likely.

x in the city

Bluetonic wrote: »

Bitter rival is a matter of opinion and something which doesn't interest me to discuss to be honest, that for kids in the playground and lads propping up the bar on a Sunday afternoon.

Your closing comment is so shortsighted it is unbelievable to think someone could be so close minded.

Sir Alan is living in an era when Bill Shankly said, if Everton were playing out the back i'd draw the curtains.

well, sir this is 2009 and your club is f00ked! its time to wake up and smell the coffee

fkt

kippy wrote: »

come one, fans boycotting games doesnt work, especially at a club like liverpool, there'd be enough day trippers etc people waiting for seats who would go. of that I am sure.

I've thought about that but for games such as Fiorentina which mean nowt and probably won't sell out anyway, it's possible.

Unfortnautely there's too many people with their heads in the sand at this time and it will take Torres/Gerrard to be sold or a groundshare to be planned before people will agree to a boycott.

Premiership games on a cold, wet, miserable Wednesday night aren't very attractive for day trippers. And if us who do care could avoid one game like such, we could have about 15'000 seats empty. Even if we could return alot of tickets three days before the game, they wouldn't have them time to sell them all on.

Unfortunately it will take something major before people do it though.

flahavaj

rarnes1 wrote: »

And your point is?

That fans whinging about this groundshare won't make a blind bit of difference to whether this goes ahead, (just like those anti G&H protests have fallen on deaf ears).

Which was a point I was agreeing with originally a whole page ago when I made my comment that has you so offended.

All clear?

Simples.:)

Voltwad

Voltwad wrote: »

And if Everton win on Sunday they're 2 points off Liverpool.

We both can add

kippy

rarnes1 wrote: »

And your point is?

My point is, fans dont get what they want, despite their belief that they run the show......
They may want their own stadium. They may not get it, they havent so far.

The Volt

x in the city wrote: »

Sir Alan is living in an era when Bill Shankly said, if Everton were playing out the back i'd draw the curtains.

well, sir this is 2009 and your club is f00ked! its time to wake up and smell the coffee

It used to be the friendly derby, times have changed drastically but I'd love to see a rekindled friendship and turn against the Manchester clubs like it used to be.

flahavaj

flahavaj wrote: »

That fans whinging about this groundshare won't make a blind bit of difference to whether this goes ahead, (just like those anti G&H protests have fallen on deaf ears).

Which was a point I was agreeing with originally a whole page ago when I made my comment that has you so offended.

All clear?

Simples.:)

But Liverpool FC have today said they are not interested in a groundshare?

kippy

rarnes1 wrote: »

We both can add

I have a feeling logic and reason dont exist in some peoples vocabulary.

Bandit12

kippy wrote: »

I know which one of those scenarios is less likely........

Imo there is as good a chance of either happening.

kippy

rarnes1 wrote: »

But Liverpool FC have today said they are not interested in a groundshare?

........the same Liverpool FC that just over a year ago said they had started building a 60000 seater stadium........

To be honest, until today I was still under the impression this was ongoing. I was corrected however.


Maybe we should ask LFC fans, how they anticipate their new stadium to become a reality? Do they trust that G and H will get the show on the road.

flahavaj

rarnes1 wrote: »

But Liverpool FC have today said they are not interested in a groundshare?

Lock thread so, mods.:rolleyes:

Mr Alan

kippy wrote: »

........the same Liverpool FC that just over a year ago said they had started building a 60000 seater stadium........

when did they say that?

Bandit12

flahavaj wrote: »

That fans whinging about this groundshare won't make a blind bit of difference to whether this goes ahead, (just like those anti G&H protests have fallen on deaf ears).

Which was a point I was agreeing with originally a whole page ago when I made my comment that has you so offended.

All clear?

Simples.:)

Your posts are as clear as mud lad.;)

Warper

Voltwad wrote: »

And you think that fans should just keel over if they don't like how their club is being run?

No I don't, every fan cares about how their club is being run. The fact is football is now business and big business. All of the top English clubs are now owned by foreign wealthy business-men. They put their money up and they now own the club. If something makes economic sense, they have every right to do what they want. I doubt they would have many sleepless nights over in America at the thought of disappointing the fans. There might be disapproval for a couple of weeks but that would all subside in time, like it has done during the takeovers at both Liverpool and Utd..

x in the city

This topic is a serious matter (too serious for some of the people on here) and my opinion is that the people on here are too immature and naive to give it proper thought.

fkt

x in the city wrote: »

This topic is a serious matter (too serious for some of the people on here) and my opinion is that the people on here are too immature and naive to give it proper thought.

What do you want? Are the Evertonians relisihing the thought of sharing a stadium with one of the biggest football clubs in the world? Being able to say "Barcelona, Madrid and the Milan teams have played here". Would be big for you wouldn't it?

kippy

kippy wrote: »

I have a feeling logic and reason dont exist in some peoples vocabulary.

kippy

Mr Alan wrote: »

when did they say that?

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/archivedirs/news/2008/jun/24/N160313080624-1211.htm
"Works started on June 23rd" (last year)
This was the latest:
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/newstadium/

I think you or someone on the LFC thread posted that link yesterday to me as I had thought the stadium was still under construction.