I ask myself: Is this healthy for a young kid??

Zamboni

This wrote: »

in russia and china the gymnastics training starts while the kids are in nappies.
if the parents were really worried about the kids being tortured they wouldnt send their kids in. ever wonder why ireland has never had an olympics gymnast?!!!

at the end of the day, i coach kids who end up crying almost every training session..... I dont feel sorry for them, they choose to show up, they choose to come back every session and they leave with a smile, because they are living their dream.

I would rather Ireland never produces Olympic gymnasts if we have to resort to that level of coaching.

Ellechim

Hello

Firstly, I'm not a troll. I've been posting (ok not regularly) on this forum for a few years and I know one of the moderators and he (hopefully) will vouch for me.

I do apologise for losing it - the chinese video really really upset me and it seemed to me that there were some people on here who weren't bothered by it and that fact upset me even more. So I apologise for the strong language.

I've no objection to competitive sport. However it is wrong to 'hothouse' a child for any reason, whether it's sport or academics or music or whatever.

For that first boy to get to the level he demonstrates in the clip I ask, how many hours a day will he have had to trained? How old is he? Maybe six, max seven I would have thought. He so obviously is doing it to please his father - the smaller children in the background copying him so they can please daddy too.

True, Ireland hasn't had an olympic gymnast medal winner (I think) and if the price of that is what was shown on the chinese video then I don't want that glory thanks very much.

And as for children doing it willingly, these children aren't - if you know anything about living in China on many of these things parents get no choice - the children are assessed and then go - many separated from families at a very young age. In fact in Russia for many years children were assessed and hot housed at very early ages into ballet schools, gymnastic schools, etc - having no childhood to speak of. Yes, they went on to achieve great things and glory for their nations in their various fields but what the person?

Sorry, I have two small children and I see every day how totally malleable they are and how vulnerable they can be. These clips upset me very much and I am sorry if I offended anyone by my post.

M

amazingemmet

To clear some stuff up as a gymnastics and sports acro coach.

The kid in the first video is good but nothing amazing most of my youth squad could replicate what he's doing.

The chinese training I do agree is abusive but if you see it from the perspective of the chinese. In china atheltes are selected young for physical traits which the chinese believe will develop into a high level gymnast, selection happens very young 4-5, these children are taken from lower class households generally, they are given a good education, food, the best medical care and money is given to the families. If the kids wash out of the gymnastics program they generally move to one of the acrobatic/circus. A lot of my coaches have come from this path as an example mr liu ye, a subsistence farmers son now the head coach in the sf circus school came this route drop out of the gymnastics at 12 and into the circus programs by the age of 14 he'd travelled to 10 different countries and was sending home twice what his parents were earning combined. So when you look at it from this point of view the coaches are really tough on kids because for them the rewards are so high.

Personally I'd suffer the training if the end result meant I could do this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tpCrusP6As

Zamboni

amazingemmet wrote: »

Personally I'd suffer the training if the end result meant I could do this

But you are looking at it from the perspective of an adult.
I doubt you could make such a statement from the perspective of a 5 year old getting lashed out of it for making a technical error.

amazingemmet

Zamboni wrote: »

But you are looking at it from the perspective of an adult.
I doubt you could make such a statement from the perspective of a 5 year old getting lashed out of it for making a technical error.

Completely agree. That said none of the asian acrobats I know regret the path they took.

Roper

Roper wrote: »

Kids can't respect their own privacy, so it's up to Mam and Dad to respect it for them.

I share the same sentiments here.

Especially when it comes to throwing your kid into the limelight.

Oh and this leaves a bad taste in my mouth too, anyone remember little hercules ? : Little Hercules

Roper

Thanks for the context Emmet. I think it's easy to be a Westerner and look down your nose at it but when you live in abject poverty it's a different world. Some of you may know a bit about thaiboxing. Watching 10 year olds kneeing and elbowing each other in Thailand can be a bit disconcerting unless you know the context.

PeakOutput

Roper wrote: »

Thanks for the context Emmet. I think it's easy to be a Westerner and look down your nose at it but when you live in abject poverty it's a different world. Some of you may know a bit about thaiboxing. Watching 10 year olds kneeing and elbowing each other in Thailand can be a bit disconcerting unless you know the context.

it is very disconcerting but i understand it. however what i dont understand is the fight being stopped because one kid is in bits, the bookies refusing to pay out because it wasnt a knock out and the ref restarting the match as a result. this might be an isolated case but it sickened me and stained thai boxing a little for me

Roper

I saw some bogey stuff alright. It's wrong in every way but when you talk to the thais you know why they do it.

Khannie

Kids fighting in Thailand didn't bother me at all actually, but going to the country helps a lot with understanding the reasons. Now I didn't see any bogey stuff. They were wearing gloves that went all the way up to their elbows and when one of them took a (very light) hit in the solar plexus and started crying that was the end of that. This was in the arse end of rural Thailand. Muay Thai over there is like GAA over here. Huge! And if you're gonna reach the top (where there is reasonable money to be made) you need to start very very young.

Let's not forget, boxing clubs here start the kids very young and we have a fine tradition of producing olympic medal winners in boxing.

Transform

i would have to agree with ellichim - when you have your own kid(s) things do change and I would kick the living sh1t out of a coach if he/she treated my child like that!

I have read a few books on gymnastics

e.g. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chalked-Gymnastics-Merciless-Overzealous-Disorders/dp/0061351466/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259445102&sr=8-1
and

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Little-Girls-Pretty-Boxes-Breaking/dp/0704344882/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

My conclusion (even though i love the sport) is that it will give kids a fantastic base but would move her on to another sport when it got too serious - read the books and the life!!

This

While training in Dynamo, Moscow I was told
'I train so hard and do so well because my family depends on the money i win from competitions and I get as sponsership'
from a current olympic medalist. sometimes its not the kids living out the parents dreams, sometimes its the kids making a life for the family.

d'Oracle

This wrote: »

from a current olympic medalist.

I reckon you are trying to be subtle here, but that can only be one person.

badrlampard8

Ellechim wrote: »

GUYS WAKE UP.

ARE YOU COMPLETELY DERANGED.

THESE ARE CHILDREN.

THIS IS WRONG WRONG WRONG.

IT IS ABUSE. THESE CHILDREN ARE ENTIRELY POWERLESS TO OBJECT OR PUSH BACK.

I'M SURE THAT SOME OF YOU WHO HAVE POSTED ON THIS THREAD ARE PARENTS OR AUNTS OR UNCLES. WOULD YOU HAVE YOUR SON/DAUGHTER/NIECE/NEPHEW DO THIS?

FOR ****'S SAKE WE HAVE A COUNTRY WHICH HAS BEEN RAVAGED BY ABUSE OF CHILDREN AND WE'RE HERE CELEBRATING ABUSE OF ANOTHER NATURE IN OTHER COUNTRIES. IT'S JUST ABUSE OF ANOTHER NATURE.

WHAT KIND OF PLACE AM I LIVING IN?

BY THE WAY, I HAVE DELIBERATELY POSTED IN CAPITALS AS YOUR POSTS MAKE ME SO VERY VERY ANGRY.

I COME ON THIS THREAD FOR IDEAS ON HOW TO IMPROVE MY FITNESS NOT TO SEE CHILD ABUSE?

PEOPLE PLEASE GET REAL

I tottaly agree with you. This is just a kid he thinks this is normal :mad:

badrlampard8

PeakOutput wrote: »

ok the chinese video is a disgrace

the first one i dont have too much of a problem with at all. i find the posing distastefull for some reason not sure why but i do the athletic feats i have no problem with fair play to him

You don't have a problem with the first one?!?

That is NOT normal :eek: a five year old with abs and muscles

PeakOutput

badrlampard8 wrote: »

You don't have a problem with the first one?!?

That is NOT normal :eek: a five year old with abs and muscles

all humans have abs and muscles weather they are kids or not

seriously though i never said it was normal that dosnt make it wrong though,obviously im giving the parents the benefit of the doubt that they are not giving the kids anything illegal and assuming thats the case i dont have a big problem with it. i dont like the posing and fake aggression and stuff but thats probably just me

as people have said here there are kids of the same age in ireland who can do those athletic feats aswell or close to it

rubadub

PeakOutput wrote: »

all humans have abs and muscles weather they are kids or not

Yes, and "normal" is being overweight and having a thick layer of fat over those muscles, consuming an average of 3400kcal per day while leading a sedentary lifestyle, and not being fit enough to run 20 yards for a bus.

barred4life

Ellechim wrote: »

GUYS WAKE UP.

ARE YOU COMPLETELY DERANGED.

THESE ARE CHILDREN.

THIS IS WRONG WRONG WRONG.

IT IS ABUSE. THESE CHILDREN ARE ENTIRELY POWERLESS TO OBJECT OR PUSH BACK.

I'M SURE THAT SOME OF YOU WHO HAVE POSTED ON THIS THREAD ARE PARENTS OR AUNTS OR UNCLES. WOULD YOU HAVE YOUR SON/DAUGHTER/NIECE/NEPHEW DO THIS?

FOR ****'S SAKE WE HAVE A COUNTRY WHICH HAS BEEN RAVAGED BY ABUSE OF CHILDREN AND WE'RE HERE CELEBRATING ABUSE OF ANOTHER NATURE IN OTHER COUNTRIES. IT'S JUST ABUSE OF ANOTHER NATURE.

WHAT KIND OF PLACE AM I LIVING IN?

BY THE WAY, I HAVE DELIBERATELY POSTED IN CAPITALS AS YOUR POSTS MAKE ME SO VERY VERY ANGRY.

I COME ON THIS THREAD FOR IDEAS ON HOW TO IMPROVE MY FITNESS NOT TO SEE CHILD ABUSE?

PEOPLE PLEASE GET REAL

HERE HERE ..........SICK CHINESE C*N*S

d'Oracle

I'd say their nervous systems are healthy enough....

BossArky

barred4life wrote: »

HERE HERE ..........SICK CHINESE C*N*S

Infracted. No need for racist abuse.

badrlampard8

d'Oracle wrote: »

I'd say their nervous systems are healthy enough....

how can you say that. Did you check on him :mad:

badrlampard8

barred4life wrote: »

HERE HERE ..........SICK CHINESE C*N*S

why

badrlampard8

fysically and mentally he is destroying himself, and the parents are responsible for that

john_cappa

badrlampard8 wrote: »

fysically and mentally he is destroying himself, and the parents are responsible for that

and you know this how?

This thread has given me a good lol i must say

PeakOutput

badrlampard8 wrote: »

fysically and mentally he is destroying himself, and the parents are responsible for that

physically? you really think he is going to be physically worse off then us when he gets to our age?

assuming this is 'drug free' this can only make him physically better in most ways

mentally im undecided but physically i cant see it doing him any harm besides a regular training injury or if it is as a result of drugs

Slugs

In relation to the chinese video, beats working at a sweat shop I suppose... :P

VinnyTGM

Beast.

Musashi

My son is five, he can't do what that kid is doing, but he is a fit and strong wee fecker!

He has a six pack, has since about three years old when he went mental with running up stuff and jumping off of stuff. He's like a little ninja Parkour kid, but that's just his way of burning off energy.

I train out back (in me shed, not in Australia) and the little nutter comes out to watch. We were finishing with kettlebell swings and he wanted to join in with "the Lads".

Mickk had given me a 4kg bell with my set so Jake used that, I told him to do 5 reps and quit, showed him form, mind his back etc. He's my son and no way I'll ever drive him to hurt himself.

We finished our set and Jake pip[es up "I was grand so I did 15" little fecker! We did three sets of swings and he repped 15 every time with no ill effects I could discern?

This doesn't mean he didn't hurt himself or that he'll be allowed train out side there again. His natural inclination as a little man is to want to compete and weight/pain wasn't gonna stop him.

I'll post a pic of his build if I can catch him on my Canon, no face as you never know... he's a gorgeous looking child though (takes after his Father...ahem?)

el dude

rubadub wrote: »

Yes, and "normal" is being overweight and having a thick layer of fat over those muscles, consuming an average of 3400kcal per day while leading a sedentary lifestyle, and not being fit enough to run 20 yards for a bus.

Why are you doing that? Are there only the two extremes here or what?

Phil D

I don't think this is child abuse any more than giving kids sweets and DVDs instead of attention and interest. It may be hard for the kids but they're learning important life lessons and real skills. Ask them in ten or fifteen years was it worth it and I'm sure they'll say yes. As opposed to lazy Irish parents pawning their kids off on tv, computer games and junk food until they're old enough to knacker drink. Fair play to the adults for caring about and encouraging the kids.