Will you still go to mass on sunday?

Dinner

Biggins wrote: »

...and just what the hell are we supposed to call them instead? Bold boys!
Get real would you!

Well you managed to refer to the gardai by their correct name, but decided it would be much more emotive to call the catholic church 'the perverts'. Personally, when refering to whole organisations I manage to not tar them all with the same brush but I know you're fond of the tar.

Biggins wrote: »

It was effective as far as it could be given that the evil folk within the organisation lied, delayed, hid or destroyed evidence and even moved parties involved around and out of the country!

So did it or didn't it discover that some of their members helped cover up the abuses carried out by te church?

Biggins

Dinner wrote: »

Well you managed to refer to the gardai by their correct name, but decided it would be much more emotive to call the catholic church 'the perverts'. Personally, when refering to whole organisations I manage to not tar them all with the same brush but I know you're fond of the tar.

AGAIN - I repeat MY question.
..and just what the hell are we supposed to call them instead? Bold boys!

ANYONE that shoves a cross up a girls backside and tortures her with it - is a PERVERT AND A VERY SICK ONE AT THAT to the rest of us!!!

What in gods name do you call them! :mad:

cityofdublin

omahaid wrote: »

I think the Roman Catholic Church should be outlawed, so no, I wont be going to mass.

Dont forget There are a lot of good priests out there doing a lot of good work.

AnonoBoy

cityofdublin wrote: »

Dont forget There are a lot of good priests out there doing a lot of good work.

Maybe they should find a less corrupt organisation to do that good work through.


If you worked for a company and were doing good work. But then found out that loads of the employees had been embezzling money for years and the managers knew about it and covered it up to ensure that the company kept its good name would you not consider moving to a different company? One with a less corrupt reputation?

I would.

Now imagine that instead of embezzling money they were raping children.

Dinner

Biggins wrote: »

AGAIN - I repeat MY question.
..and just what the hell are we supposed to call them instead? Bold boys!

ANYONE that shoves a cross up a girls backside and tortures her with it - is a PERVERT AND A VERY SICK ONE AT THAT to the rest of us!!!

What in gods name do you call them! :mad:

If you are referring to the individual who did that to the girl then you call them perverts, sick ****s or whatever. Take your pick. But in the sentence I quoted you were very clearly referring to the entire church as 'the perverts'.

To quote your post:

The difference between the Gardi and the perverts is that in one organisation there is an internal section that constantly investigates their own non-stop.
In the other, the organisation does not investigate for fear of what it might find and only when it does (forced to), it moves the culprits instead of punishing them. It covers up more so instead of punishing them. It lies more so than instead of punishing them.

I've bolded the bits relevant. You clearly were referring to the entire organisation and not any individual. I completly agree that any person who molests a child is a pervert and is very deserving of any larger font size you feel appropiate. I disagree with you referring to the entire church as 'the perverts'.

cityofdublin

rossie1977 wrote: »

i am a scientologist

all hail the mighty Xenu

FREAKS

AnonoBoy

Dinner wrote: »

I've bolded the bits relevant. You clearly were referring to the entire organisation and not any individual. I completly agree that any person who molests a child is a pervert and is very deserving of any larger font size you feel appropiate. I disagree with you referring to the entire church as 'the perverts'.

Can we refer the the church as a corrupt and immoral organisation?

Yes we can.

cityofdublin

SV wrote: »

No I won't be. Haven't been since I was 11.

I'm also quite annoyed at my parents(and other parents who do it today) that just raise their children as Catholic and tell them that's the truth. Let them make up their own mind when they're old enough ffs.

I bet you will still get your own children baptised and confirmed in the Catholic church, I suppose also you will be celebrating Christmas????????

cityofdublin

bitemybanger wrote: »

Apart from a funeral, wedding or Christening i have not been to mass in about ten years.

Do you want a medal ? why do you go to these events , they obviously mean nothing to you ????? a la cart religion

AnonoBoy

cityofdublin wrote: »

Do you want a medal ? why do you go to these events , they obviously mean nothing to you ????? a la cart religion

People attend weddings and funerals to pay be part of their family/friends big day or to pay respects to someone who has passed. The religion part isn't the important thing in these instances, it's the community aspect.

Do you think we should ban people from attending funerals unless they're Catholics?

cityofdublin

DazMarz wrote: »

I haven't been to mass in ages, and don't make it a habit either. Weddings, funerals, etc. That be about it

want a medal ? why do you go to these events, they obviously mean nothing. a la cart religion. I suppose you will still celebrate christmas.

Biggins

Dinner wrote: »

If you are referring to the individual who did that to the girl then you call them perverts, sick ****s or whatever. Take your pick. But in the sentence I quoted you were very clearly referring to the entire church as 'the perverts'....

Aaa where? Thank you for attempting to twist my words by bolding the wrong part!
Here - Let me help you. Those rose tinted glasses are blinding you to proper reading of text.

The difference between the Gardi and the perverts that is in one organisation there is an internal section that constantly investigates their own non-stop.

PLEASE NOTE - I DIDN'T SAY "ALL" - I SAID THOSE THAT ARE "IN"

Third time I will ask the question...

ANYONE that shoves a cross up a girls backside and tortures her with it - is a PERVERT AND A VERY SICK ONE AT THAT to the rest of us!!!

What in gods name do you call them?

cityofdublin

AnonoBoy wrote: »

People attend weddings and funerals to pay be part of their family/friends big day or to pay respects to someone who has passed. The religion part isn't the important thing in these instances, it's the community aspect.

Do you think we should ban people from attending funerals unless they're Catholics?

No I'm not but you seem to want some sort of reward or something

CeNedra

Biggins wrote: »

ALL they are afraid of is the uncovering of the rest of the ice berg of crimes.
Not that we will EVER see the full truth - hide, bury and lie they will continue to do so.
They had enough practise, they have been doing it for centuries!

Guys and Gals,

I understand what the man is saying. How much money do these reports cost? What else will they buy us. These reports are not the mechanism for compensating the abused. I believe is what he is saying that you could spend a lifetime having costly tribunals across the country and the results/recommendations will be the same.
The efforts going forward should be put into reform and reporting and compensation and especially making sure the mechanisms are in place so that this will never happen again. In a country of limited resources, would you prefer money to go to lawyers or the abused?
I think we are very quick to jump down peoples throats and don't stop to understand where they are coming from.

AnonoBoy

cityofdublin wrote: »

No I'm not but you seem to want some sort of reward or something

Where did I say anything like that?

You seem to be angry at people who have moved away from the church. Can you not see why people have done it given the behaviour of the members of the church?

Dinner

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Can we refer the the church as a corrupt and immoral organisation?

Yes we can.

Excellant! I propose an official amendment to change the name of the Catholic Chursh to 'The Perverts' and the Gardai to 'The Pervert cover uppers'! I think it might catch on.

cityofdublin wrote: »

I bet you will still get your own children baptised and confirmed in the Catholic church, I suppose also you will be celebrating Christmas????????

Please! Christianity just hijacked christmas and made it about jesus. Now its just about taking some time out to relax and spend time with family. To think the emphasis on christmas is still about religion is just naive.

cityofdublin wrote: »

Do you want a medal ? why do you go to these events , they obviously mean nothing to you ????? a la cart religion

I only go to mass for weddings/funerals etc. But I don't go for any sort of religious aspect. I go because, Anonoboy said, its a special day (or sad day) for family that I want to share in. I would like a medal though.

cityofdublin

AnonoBoy wrote: »

People attend weddings and funerals to pay be part of their family/friends big day or to pay respects to someone who has passed. The religion part isn't the important thing in these instances, it's the community aspect.

Do you think we should ban people from attending funerals unless they're Catholics?

Will you celebrate Christmas ????????????????????????????????????????

AnonoBoy

cityofdublin wrote: »

Will you celebrate Christmas?????????????????

No I don't attend Mass at Christmas. I will visit my family at Christmas but I don't take part in any religious ceremonies. If I attend a wedding or a funeral I do not receive communion. I merely attend to support/console friends and family.

What's your point in all of this?

PS - is the question mark button on your keyboard stuck?

flanzer

cityofdublin wrote: »

want a medal ? why do you go to these events, they obviously mean nothing. a la cart religion. I suppose you will still celebrate christmas.

Can I have one too please? A big large gold one at that. I go to these events to celebrate a couples unity and their committment to spend the rest of their lives together. I tend not to listen to the bullshít in the scripture.

Would I avoid a jewish or a muslim wedding or funeral because I'm not of that religion? No probably. But I go to these 'events' to celebrate peoples lives.

I celebrate Christmas too only because I see it as a family occasion and celebrate the family, not to celebrate a makey up story of a bastard child born to a virgin mother

Biggins

I guess someone (by their silence) is completely avoiding the question I asked 3 times!

cityofdublin

Please! Christianity just hijacked christmas and made it about jesus. Now its just about taking some time out to relax and spend time with family. To think the emphasis on christmas is still about religion is just naive.

No read the word slowly christ mas . Christmas is a christian festival to celebrate the birth of christ.

AnonoBoy

cityofdublin wrote: »

No read the word slowly christ mas . Christmas is a christian festival to celebrate the birth of christ.

What is your point in this argument?

Dinner

Biggins wrote: »

Aaa where? Thank you for attempting to twist my words by bolding the wrong part!
Here - Let me help you. Those rose tinted glasses are blinding you to proper reading of text.

PLEASE NOTE - I DIDN'T SAY "ALL" - I SAID THOSE THAT ARE "IN"

Ah, I see. I read that as:

The difference between the Gardi and the perverts [is] that is in one organisation there is an internal section that constantly investigates their own non-stop.

Because reading it as:

The difference between the Gardi and the perverts that is in one organisation there is an internal section that constantly investigates their own non-stop.

The bolded bit didn't seem to make any sense to that sentence so I must have misread it. Apologies if I picked you up wrong.

Biggins wrote: »

Third time I will ask the question...

ANYONE that shoves a cross up a girls backside and tortures her with it - is a PERVERT AND A VERY SICK ONE AT THAT to the rest of us!!!

What in gods name do you call them?

I take it you didn't read all of my other post.

Dinner wrote: »

I completly agree that any person who molests a child is a pervert and is very deserving of any larger font size you feel appropiate.

anti-venom

cityofdublin wrote: »

Do you want a medal ? why do you go to these events , they obviously mean nothing to you ????? a la cart religion

A la carte religion? Isn't that just what the Catholic Church in this country has been practising for centuries? They have consistently smashed every moral code they have been charged with upholding, yet they somehow keep on managing to hoodwink the population into forgiving them and believing them.

The catholic church has, in common with all power obsessed institutions, one agenda, and that is namely, self preservation. Everything else, including the victims of abuse comes a distant second.

cityofdublin

flanzer wrote: »

Can I have one too please? A big large gold one at that. I go to these events to celebrate a couples unity and their committment to spend the rest of their lives together. I tend not to listen to the bullshít in the scripture.

Would I avoid a jewish or a muslim wedding or funeral because I'm not of that religion? No probably. But I go to these 'events' to celebrate peoples lives.

I celebrate Christmas too only because I see it as a family occasion and celebrate the family, not to celebrate a makey up story of a bastard child born to a virgin mother

I'm surprised you have a family at all, you seem like a right nob

Dinner

Biggins wrote: »

I guess someone (by their silence) is completely avoiding the question I asked 3 times!

I'm awfully sorry that I wasn't typing quick enough. Perhaps we wouldn't have this problem if you fully read my posts, because as I mentioned above. I already answered your question.

EDIT: It seems flanzer isn't reading my posts either, or is just eagerly awaiting your next post so he can thank that too. I would have though between the 2 of you one of ye would have read it.

Biggins

Dinner wrote: »

I'm awfully sorry that I wasn't typing quick enough. Perhaps we wouldn't have this problem if you fully read my posts, because as I mentioned above. I already answered your question.

Aaa no!
Correct me again if I am wrong but you have not stated exactly what you titled them as!
You ducked the question by attempted side-tracking.

You dared to reprimand me for calling a select number of twisted individuals "perverts".
I asked "what do you call them?"

I still await your one/two word clarification reply.

AnonoBoy

cityofdublin wrote: »

I'm surprised you have a family at all, you seem like a right nob

Say goodbye newbie.

Also - it's spelled 'knob' not 'nob'.

c montgomery

The only way ill ever go to mass again is if im really really horney:):)

dr.bollocko

cityofdublin wrote: »

I'm surprised you have a family at all, you seem like a right nob

Excommunicated.

LD 50

cityofdublin wrote: »

No read the word slowly christ mas . Christmas is a christian festival to celebrate the birth of christ.

Christmas was actually originally a pagan festival or the or one to celebrate the Winter solstice, that the Roman Catholics hijacked so as to make the transition easier. Jesus Christ wasn't actually born on the 25th of December, or even that season.

And in turn, Christmas has been hijacked by the corporations to sell their products. Who was it that decided that Santa wore Red and white? Coca Cola.

Google it. Learn something other than what they spoon feed.

flanzer

cityofdublin wrote: »

I'm surprised you have a family at all, you seem like a right nob

That's low pal, very very low... I hope you're ashamed of yourself for saying such a thing. I've seen a lot of personal abuse on this site, but that's a step too far. I hope you're happy with yourself standing behind your internet anonimity

Biggins

LD 50 wrote: »

Christmas was actually originally a pagan festival or the Winter solstice. that the Roman Catholics hijacked so as to make the transition easier. Jesus Christ wasn't actually born on the 25th of December, or even that season.

And in turn, Christmas has been hijacked by the corporations to sell their products. Who was it that decided that Santa wore Red and white? Coca Cola.

All true.
Was it blue or green his coats was supposed to have been? I honestly forget.

LD 50

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Say goodbye newbie.

Also - it's spelled 'knob' not 'nob'.

Probably thought it was in the swear filter, and was trying to get around it:pac:

Dinner

Biggins wrote: »

Aaa no!
Correct me again if I am wrong but have you not stated exactly what you titled then as!
You ducked the question by attempted side-tracking.

You dared to reprimand me for calling a select number of twisted individuals "perverts".
I asked "what do you call them?"

I still await your one/two word clarification reply.

I didn't 'reprimand' you for calling a the abusers perverts. I misunderstood the sentence, which could have been phrased better and thought you were calling the entire church organisation 'the perverts'.

I'll post this again just incase you missed it. Again.

Dinner wrote: »

I completly agree that any person who molests a child is a pervert and is very deserving of any larger font size you feel appropiate. I disagree with you referring to the entire church as 'the perverts'.

Do you see that bit there? Look, I've even increased the font size just in case that helps. In light of reading the bolded part, what do you think I would call someone who abuses a child?

The answer:

A Pervert!!

Yaaaah! Wooo! I've only had to answer that question 3 times. Will you accept it this time or should I get ready to quote the exact same post again!

EDIT: Sorry if I sound like a condescending asshole in this post.

AnonoBoy

LD 50 wrote: »

Probably thought it was in the swear filter, and was trying to get around it:pac:

Quiet you. I'd admonishing a banned poster without any fear of a comeback. Let me have my moment.

LD 50

Biggins wrote: »

All true.
Was it blue or green his coats was supposed to have been? I honestly forget.

I'm not sure, but at a guess i'll say green.

wikipedia wrote:

Father Christmas dates back at least as far as the 17th century in Britain, and pictures of him survive from that era, portraying him as a jolly well-nourished bearded man dressed in a long, green, fur-lined robe. He typified the spirit of good cheer at Christmas, and was reflected as the "Ghost of Christmas Present", in Charles Dickens Festive classic A Christmas Carol, a great genial man in a green coat lined with fur who takes Scrooge through the bustling streets of London on the current Christmas morning, sprinkling the essence of Christmas onto the happy populace.

Ha, I was right.

Biggins

Dinner wrote: »

Will you accept it this time or should I get ready to quote the exact same post again!

I gratefully accept your answer.
To be fair to you, I'm glad you eventually understood my wording.
My phrasing might not have helped.

Both of us - and a hell of a lot more too - are very angry - and understandably so.

I just hope now that those that continue to be corrupt will not succeed in stopping further investigations as referred to in the above newspaper article.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1127/breaking25.htm

Sanjuro

LD 50 wrote: »

I'm not sure, but at a guess i'll say green.

Correct.

Biggins

LD 50 wrote: »

I'm not sure, but at a guess i'll say green.

Sanjuro wrote: »

Correct.

Side issue but thank you for refreshing my old fogie memory.

Dinner

Biggins wrote: »

I gratefully accept your answer.
To be fair to you, I'm glad you eventually understood my wording.
My phrasing might not have helped.

Both of us - and a hell of a lot more too - are very angry - and understandably so.

I just hope now that those that continue to be corrupt will not succeed in stopping further investigations as referred to in the above newspaper article.

That we can agree on. It's a disgusting chapter in a very long and disgusting book. All we can hope comes out of this is a more open church willing to go through further change for the better and weed out the scum embedded in the heirarchy. But I doubt they will.

LD 50

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Quiet you. I'd admonishing a banned poster without any fear of a comeback. Let me have my moment.

can't we share it. What with all this Christmas spirit in here.:o:D

Biggins

Dinner wrote: »

That we can agree on. It's a disgusting chapter in a very long and disgusting book. All we can hope comes out of this is a more open church willing to go through further change for the better and weed out the scum embedded in the heirarchy. But I doubt they will.

Agreed.
Things are not likely to change. An indication of this, is the current crises in Italy at the moment.

See news story here: http://www.euronews24.org/world/ap-impact-italy-grapples-with-priest-sex-abuse/ or http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/14/italy-grapples-with-pries_n_285428.html
Quick quote:

A yearlong Associated Press tally has documented 73 cases with allegations of sexual abuse by priests against minors over the past decade in Italy, with more than 235 victims.

AnonoBoy

LD 50 wrote: »

can't we share it. What with all this Christmas spirit in here.:o:D

AHA! You do celebrate Christmas!

Cityofdublin was right after all!

LD 50

Oh, and on topic.
I don't go to mass, have never been made to, nor do I ever wish to. Perfectly good waste of a good Sunday lie in. I've been for others confirmation, first communions, weddings, funerals and such, but when I'm at those I don't take part in the mass part, whatever its called.

oldyouth

Dinner wrote: »

How does that make any sense? If you work in a shop then you know other people's business because they work in the same shop. Does a cashier in Tesco in Dublin know about the life of a shelf stacker in Tesco in Cork?

To say that all priests know what was/is going on and are covering it up is ignorant at best. Priests might know of priests in other parishes but they don't know anything about what they do because, if you hadn't guessed, priests are spread out all over the damn country!

We don't live in South Park! Priests don't get together and discuss how to get away with molesting children.

Sorry, I was away for a bit and didn't see your response. Obviously, a priest in Kerry mightn't know what is happening in a small parish in Louth but he does know what is going on in the neighbouring parish and, in my opinion, has a duty to inform the authorities if he is aware of any incident. It is obvious from the latest report that there was/is widespread clerical abuse and every County would have it's share
I haven't time to respond to the way you personalised your post, then again, I probably wouldn't bother if I had

why so serious?

krudler wrote: »

Are all the rapists gone then? I suppose all those people who were abused should just accept the fact that its in the past and stop whinging about being raped, sure that has no place in the present

what a ****ing idiotic statement

No point in turning your back on your religion just because those bastards used to be part of the church, god never told them to do it!

ro09

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Where did I say anything like that?

You seem to be angry at people who have moved away from the church. Can you not see why people have done it given the behaviour of the members of the church?

In Fairness there are a lot of priests today doing a lot of good work. I know a priest who works 18 hour days 7 days a week ! trying to turn the tide on suicide in Ireland and thats after he came back from working in africa . How many of us would put our own lives on the line for the wellbeing of others.

aidan24326

Dinner wrote: »

All we can hope comes out of this is a more open church willing to go through further change for the better and weed out the scum embedded in the heirarchy. But I doubt they will.

Fat chance. The Catholic Church don't do change, never have, and it will be the death of them in the end.

ro09 wrote: »

In Fairness there are a lot of priests today doing a lot of good work. I know a priest who works 18 hour days 7 days a week ! trying to turn the tide on suicide in Ireland and thats after he came back from working in africa . How many of us would put our own lives on the line for the wellbeing of others.

We know there were and are lots of priests doing good things, like the guy you're referring to. Nobody ever said otherwise. But that's beside the point. Many priests who didn't directly abuse kids would have been involved in coverups in one way or another. And they were all part of the ethos within the church that allowed that culture of secrecy to exist. It's unfortunate for the good guys who did nothing wrong, but they have to accept the consequences of being a member of such a corrupt organisation, and I don't see too many of them leaving despite the complete loss of credibility.

partyatmygaff

aidan24326 wrote: »

Fat chance. The Catholic Church don't do change, never have, and it will be the death of them in the end.




We know there were and are lots of priests doing good things, like the guy you're referring to. Nobody ever said otherwise. But that's beside the point. Many priests who didn't directly abuse kids would have been involved in coverups in one way or another. And they were all part of the ethos within the church that allowed that culture of secrecy to exist. It's unfortunate for the good guys who did nothing wrong, but they have to accept the consequences of being a member of such a corrupt organisation, and I don't see too many of them leaving despite the complete loss of credibility.

The good priests of the church are still in the church because of the values of the church and its beliefs. They can't just go create a new church because the so called "members" of the church in the past were terrible people. The church as its self and its values are honorable and morally sound. The problem is some "members" abused their position. The organisation as a whole condemns such abuse so there is no reason for them to leave.