UCD's internet connection: Pathetic, still just pathetic

Dionysus

So, once again I have to leave the library in order to study because the persistently incompetent institution that is University College Dublin still refuses to build the necessary IT infrastructure that will prevent the internet connection collapsing each time the library gets full around exam time.


How many more years will this pathetic situation persist? Universities all over the world - many of which are far, far bigger than UCD - can build these IT systems without the internet collapsing when the library gets a decent crowd in it.

There is no excuse for this - none whatsoever. The patently low priority given by University College Dublin's leadership to supplying a reliable internet connection to UCD students - the people who pay their wages, lest we forget - speaks to the backwardness of that leadership. Despite professions of promoting this university as a cutting edge one, it is indubitably the greatest amount of illiterate waffle when they cannot supply a simple, reliable internet connection to us. Offensive in the extreme.



Yours,

a student who paid over €6500 in fees for this incompetence.


/ rant over until the next day this crap happens (probably tomorrow).

WeeBushy

Ranting & Raving Forum -->

Ah no I'm joking. :P

It's absolutely ridiculous. It been like this for the last 4 years I've been here and hasn't gotten any better, dunno how they haven't done anything about it... Thankfully I don't need to use the computers in the library that much, but blood eck I'd get mad if I needed to do stuff on them.

Time Magazine

It's okay.

The VP for Students organised a great deal with O2, remember.

papajimsmooth

I was convinced that it was due to everybody being on facebook in the library.

bnt

Never mind Facebook, I've seen blokes watching Football videos on YouTube in HD. Nothing sucks bandwidth like HD video. If UCD wants their bandwidth back, they should block all Flash apps, which would deal with those stupid games too.

But when it comes to the Library specifically, the quick solution is more Access Points, and they're not expensive these days. They could put a few more in there before they run in to a WiFi channel shortage.

WeeBushy

I'd say system is probably perfectly adequate for what it is meant; essays and research etc.

Imo there should be stricter moderation of what you can access, in the library at least. If you want to watch football go somewhere else, the library is for working.

Red Alert

Not very easy to block Flash apps - they download over HTTP so they look like ordinary web traffic. It's very simple - more cells at lower power in the library will deal with the problem.

OTNiner

Its not quite as simple as adding additional access points - this has been tried as has enabling 802.11a in various locations where feasible to assess the percentage of clients that have the capability to talk 802.11a in an effort to overcome the frequency spectrum limitations of the 802.11b/g bands.

The result that between 8 - 12% of clients will use 802.11a.

The underlying problem in the Library (and elsewhere) is in relation to DHCP and most likely the changes introduced into the IP stack by Microsoft in VISTA.

Despite the clients requesting a DHCP configuration and valid offers being made the clients are not accepting these offers and have 169.254.x.y addresses assigned by the Automatic Private IP Addressing (APIPA) feature of Windows.

As can be seen from the association info below at far from peak load approx 50% of the clients dont have a valid IP address hence nothing will work:

wbs-lib-019#sh dot11 associations

802.11 Client Stations on Dot11Radio0:

SSID [WaveLAN Network] :

MAC Address IP address Device Name Parent State
0013.02d6.7d29 137.43.221.132 4500-radio wbs-lib-019 self Assoc
0013.02d6.932c 137.43.240.226 4500-radio wbs-lib-019 self Assoc
0019.7ec5.3d65 169.254.255.159 unknown - self Assoc
001b.77b7.0836 137.43.223.59 4500-radio wbs-lib-019 self Assoc
001b.77b7.9a3c 137.43.222.248 4500-radio wbs-lib-019 self Assoc
001b.77c3.c584 169.254.206.180 4500-radio wbs-lib-019 self Assoc
001f.3a0e.eb3f 169.254.92.53 4500-radio - self Assoc
001f.3c31.ff94 169.254.172.149 4500-radio ASH-PC self Assoc
0021.63cd.ac06 169.254.197.170 unknown - self Assoc
0022.5f0a.786d 169.254.244.1 unknown - self Assoc
0022.5f30.2ae0 169.254.147.58 4500-radio - self Assoc
0022.5f59.a3f7 137.43.223.250 4500-radio - self Assoc
0022.6902.7cef 137.43.223.2 4500-radio Conor self Assoc
0025.5622.67aa 137.43.221.20 4500-radio - self Assoc
0026.5e04.538a 137.43.223.142 unknown - self Assoc
0026.5e4e.59cf 169.254.18.220 unknown - self Assoc

wbs-lib-019#time
^
% Invalid input detected at '^' marker.

wbs-lib-019#sh clock
22:51:50.864 UTC Thu Nov 26 2009
wbs-lib-019#

Significant resources and effort are being deployed to identify and resolve the root cause of this issue.

The situation is not helped by the fact that despite the most popular areas being the ones with seats where power and data are presented typically less than 1% of people have registered there laptop for use on the wired network where they have access to a dedicated switched 100MB/s full duplex connection versus contending with multiple other users for a shared half duplex at best 54MB/s one.

If any one with a machine with a 169.254.x.y address shown above would care to contact me information on the OS in use, patch revision levels, configuration etc would be useful in this investigation

graduate

One wonders if the OP was connected to the wired network and if not, would this not be a reasonable step to improve the situation?

elgriff

It takes 5 mins to join the wired network and is good to go the following day. Cables cost €5. Do that and you wont have to worry about not connecting ever again

elgriff

bnt wrote: »

Never mind Facebook, I've seen blokes watching Football videos on YouTube in HD. Nothing sucks bandwidth like HD video. If UCD wants their bandwidth back, they should block all Flash apps, which would deal with those stupid games too.

But when it comes to the Library specifically, the quick solution is more Access Points, and they're not expensive these days. They could put a few more in there before they run in to a WiFi channel shortage.

Ridiculous idea! Even if this was possible, don't you realise how many legitimate uses there are for flash?

seraphimvc

block all social networks and video streaming websites (during exams period,in fairness).how hard would that be - i know mininova mainpage is blocked.say,maybe i can still use a proxy to get to youtube/facebook but the chances is i bet 90% of the students dont know how to do that.the wifi can thus be so much better than the situation now.

seriously, some students are really just come in to use up the bandwidth......

graduate

A compromise might be to somewhat further restrict applications on wireless during peak periods, while continuing to allow them on the wired network. Since regular UCD students are here for a period and can easily register their machine, that shouldn't prevent legitimate work.

Raphael

THe problem with imposing those kind of blocks is that, for on campus resident students, they're paying to have Wireless (if memory serves there was a corresponding price hike when they finally put wifi in the residences) Now, blocking recreational uses of internet is gonna piss those people no end.

Unless of course it was possible to just put the blocks on particular access points or something. DOes somebody with better computer than me know if that's possible?

mehmeh12

From what i heard the only security on the UCD wireless is mac address filtering-which for those who dont know is incredibly easy to spoof and bypass.

There should be encryption on the wireless-at least wpa psk or wpa enterprise with radius support.

The fact of the matter is that the ucd connection is ridiculously fast and there is virtually no security on the connection-its no wonder everyone is using it to download everything. Sure even if i was not a student but just living nearby then i would have free internet. Though i guess this sucks for people who need it for their education. Ah well its only UCD- only one of the top universites in the world- or so ive heard :pac:

themont85

betafrog wrote: »

There are a number of ports and services that are blocked.



The Eduroam network is currently being piloted in a number of locations on campus, it provides encryption and LDAP login, so you can login using your UCD Connect details. It will also allow you to access the wireless network of any participating uni/college. It is also considerably more open than WaveLAN. Unfortunately, it's not very well known and as such it's pilot is proving very successful.



If you walk more than 20 feet away from most of the buildings you lose wireless reception. How would people living nearby be able to benefit from free internet access? To benefit they would have to come on campus to use it and at that know the proxy settings. Considering how easy it is to crack most Eircom connections I doubt most people would be arsed.

You're lucky you can access what you can and have such wide ranging access to the internet. Regardless of how large or "top" a university it is it actually has an incredibly decent infrastructure. Implementing crap like filtering services according to access point, location and connection type is complicated, costly and at the end of the day pointless as there are always ways around it. Why should UCD spend time, money and effort to put in place mechanisms to cope with the very limited timescales of increased bandwidth usage.

And please don't use the "I paid money so I'm entitled to x" bull**** excuse. Your paying for an education, not for access to the internet. There are plenty of uni's that cost considerably more for considerably less privileges than you get.

The way education has gone, a good internet connection is essential. Don't UCD use Blackboard? I'd be fairly pissed off if I couldn't access that for all the things I need. I know my gf told me last year sometimes the wireless in the library would be unworkable at times and in the science block too...

bnt

Well, I think UCD's internet system is pretty good in general, but this is about problems specific to the Library, where everyone seems to be congregating at this time of year. You don't get this congestion in e.g. the Science Hub or Newstead.

As for APIPA (the 169.254.xxx.xxx addresses): OTNiner mentioned Vista as having problems due to changes to the way it handles DHCP. If you're confident enough to play around with the Registry in your system, have a look at the following page, which describes a change that might help: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/928233

However, that doesn't rule out congestion as a cause of DHCP problems, since the laptop has to be get through to the DHCP server, and get a response back. So, if you want to help your fellow students in the Library, don't do anything that uses a lot of bandwidth, especially streaming audio or video. If whatever it is seems to take "too long" to load, and it's not work-related, maybe you shouldn't be doing that in the first place! :rolleyes:

Red Alert

The wired network can be a handy option - it just takes a visit to the IT centre to get connected.

Unless they were authenticating clients, there's no point encrypting WLAN connections. In fact, the way UCD is set up probably provides big cost savings compared to places like TCD where they control it more.

pljudge321

My linux box seems to have a much easier time getting connected to the network compared to any of my friends running vista. Windows 7 seems better in this regard as well, might just be my new laptop has a better wi-fi card.

parker kent

I agree with everybody who recommends using the wired connection. Not only is it faster and easy to get connected to, you can switch off your wireless and make it easier for people not using the wired network. I don't see why it is not better advertised by the IT people. Out in Smurfit they really encourage you to join the wired network, if more people knew the benefits they would use it.

BlueLepreachaun

So I'm not the only one?
I thought it was my wirless card.

In the development studies section of the JJ Library the last few weeks I've had constant problems.
It connects, shows a full signal, and then when you go to Firefox (with proxy settings enabled) it says page not found, on every page. If you move 4-5 meters it will work, for a while, then cut out again, despite being connected with full health.

The 5th floor library is the biggest nightmare at all, its nearly impossible to get any kind of connection there, even with the full health signal.

The wired net may help, but at exam time your lucky to get a plug, much less a place to plug into the net.

Frisbee

Eduoram >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any other UCD Wireless

mikeln

The internet connection in Proby residences in UCD Smurfit is brutal as well and they charge an absolute fortune for Sub-standard accommodation.

griffdaddy

Frisbee wrote: »

Eduoram >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any other UCD Wireless

Use Eduroam here at the University of Amsterdam, makes the internet connection in UCD look like something from the third world*

(*Dear potential whiny student human rights activist,
yes i know things are very bad in the third world and they don't really have food, let alone internet, I was merely using hyperbole to accentuate the differences between the connections.

Kind Regards,

Griffdaddy)

OTNiner

While bnt reply re the Microsoft / Vista DHCP issue is helpful http://support.microsoft.com/kb/928233

Further investigation indicates that the problem is restricted to Vista but is more likely to relate to Power Management issues than raw dhcp.

UCD's DHCP infrastructure is compatible with the Vista broadcast flag.

What we are seeing is that clients are operating ok then after a period of time while sending requests to renew their IP address and the responses being sent (Congestion does not appear to be an issue as round trip time is in mili seconds) the client is not accepting / or acting on them.

This may be related to http://support.microsoft.com/kb/928152

I would ask that anyone having problems try the instruction there or attached.

Feedback on outcomes would be appreciated either via posts or PM.

If this is correct then the problems most likely only happen when running on battery not when plugged in to mains power.

bnt

I'm in the Library at the moment with a Linux netbook and having no problems - getting an IP address, or accessing internal and external web sites.

This issue of the DHCP lease time is one I've seen causing problems before. The situation was a company that was running out of IP addresses, so they'd shorten the lease time considerably to compensate. The shorter the time, the more clients need reliable access to a working DHCP server - and the greater the load on that server, since more requests are coming in per hour.

The lease time I'm getting right now, in the Library, is 1800 seconds i.e. 30 minutes. I think that's reasonable for an environment in which people are coming in, doing a bit of work, then going away again, and a decent DHCP server ought to handle it. When I had problems connecting a year ago (also Linux), I noticed that the lease time was 300 seconds (5 minutes), during one of the busiest times of year. Which explained the problems I had getting to the DHCP server - it must have been fielding dozens of queries, or more, per second, and dropping the ball half the time. (That's how it looked to me, anyway!)

OTNiner

Lease Time varies by location / network type as bnt states it is currently set to 30 Min in the Wireless network in the Main Library.

DHCP servers are well speced for load - round trrip time from client request in library to offers being seen in library (Vista offers are broadcast) with wireshark are typically in region of 2 - 4 mSec.

Agreed some clients have problems from the time they enter the library but as many start bt requesting 192.168.x.y addresses it is evident that they have most likely been using home broadband and either suspended or hiberhated before reactivating in UCD.

Ideally people should be on SP2 for Vista as well as latest wireless card drivers from there manufacturer.

However as this issue is being seen across multiple wireless hardware vendors based on the IEEE OUI portion of the MAC address including the mainstream INtel / Broadcom as well as the more obscure chinese motherboard manufacturers I believe it is more likely to be an OS issue.

conor.hogan.2

i find the internet grand - then again i have a decent laptop.

Dionysus

Same problem recurred this morning on my Sony Vaio; UCD never lets me down on the increasingly rare times I decide to come in and study here. I couldn't fix the connection by the usual 'diagnose and repair' way, so went out of the library and rang 2700 and he suggested I bring the laptop over to the IT guys.

Went back into the library, got the laptop and brought it over to the IT place and they said the problem is that the UCD system has difficulties generally with Microsoft Vista (which I have). I would have thought they should have sorted this out by now considering there must be thousands of us here who use Vista. If Vista can work anywhere else then the problem is with UCD's system, not with Vista. They should accept this and sort it out.

Anyway, the IT guy (who was really sound, in fairness to him) finally got the laptop working but said there's no guarantee it will work when I get back to the library. Amazingly, according to him the James Joyce Library has one of the weakest internet signals in the entire University. You couldn't invent this stuff. Is anybody thinking in UCD?

Got back to the library and it wouldn't work. Grrrrr. Went down to the SU Shop and paid €2.70 as suggested above and got a Network Patch Cable. Came back up to the library and, without changing a single thing, the connection was working before even using the cable.

What an absolute fu cking waste of 2 hours arseing about in this hole. That the university cannot provide a simple, straightforward reliable internet connection on a regular basis is incompetence of the highest order. Is Brady and his little army of overpaid goons even aware of this? I am certainly aware of the increase in my fees in the past year for an internet service which is at least as bad as it was six years ago. I am paying those fees for the library, the internet connection and the name. The first two things are what impact most upon my daily life here.

/rant. (I hope I still have a connection by the time I go to post this.)

griffdaddy

The wireless in the library can't deal with the amount of computers connecting to it, I'd be surprised if it actually had anything to do with Vista. If you want the problem to never happen again, go to the it services, register your computer's MAC address for the wired connection, and plug it into an ethernet port in the library. I had to do it in my final year in UCD because the library is a no go wireless area around exam time. The only problem is that you then have to compete for a spot that has ample access to an ethernet port and isn't taken by some selfish cúnt who puts one book and a bag to reserve their spot and then goes to lectures for 4 hours :rolleyes:

conor.hogan.2

The problem is your laptop - not ucd or its wireless.

thousands of other students have few or no problems with it, except at results times but come on in fairness thats expected.

no seriously, im not trying to be a príck but I for example have never had a problem with ucd wireless.
I didnt even have to set up my laptop for wireless i just checked auto detect proxies settings and was working straight away and for the last 2 and a half years.