Budget 2010

jank

Very quiet on the budget front lately and its only a week away. Probably because government are more tight lipped than a frogs arse about the 4 billion of cuts that is coming.

We know that there will be no new taxes on income. Taxes might happen on property and maybe a new carbon tax of some sort.

I heard that the dole might be halved for the under 25's (the biggest hit in the recession!!), child card will be means tested or taxed. Other than that I have heard hardly anything about what is being proposed.

Interesting also to note that Mary Hanifan has been out and about in the media giving her opinion on things. She is trying to ally fears and give us the "the Government do care" speil. A womans soft touch is handy sometimes. The new caring FF! Perception is very important in a run up to a budget like this.

So anyone know what is on the way? The news seems to be stuck in a flood /public sector strike cycle.

mikemac

jank wrote: »

child card will be means tested or taxed.

This means yet more administration and involves tying up staff to do this.
So any money saved will be partially lost in administration.

This is why a cut might be the better option. Though maybe not the fairest

jenzz

mikemac wrote: »

This means yet more administration and involves tying up staff to do this.
So any money saved will be partially lost in administration.

This is why a cut might be the better option. Though maybe not the fairest

& time too. At present a means test for social welfare, one parent family, fuel allowance etc is taking up to 16 weeks in some parts without adding to the burden. Not the fairest, not the nicest & god if it does happen this way your heart will go out to those who need it most

Colm R

One of things thats been talked about is to get people who don't pay tax to start paying tax, whilst not increasing the tax burden of those already paying PAYE.

Now, I'm no expert, so perhaps someone could clarify.

My partner does not pay any tax as she is on pretty low income and her tax credits wipe out the tax payable. If they want her to start paying tax (which is tough but fair to be honest) then they will have to reduce her tax credits.

I pay tax in the lower rate, and my tax credits do not wipe out my tax payable but does reduce it somewhat. We both have exactly the same tax credits - rent, paye and personal.

So the question I have is, if they reduce my partners tax credits to bring her into the tax net, then they will also reduce my tax credits?

So while I'm still paying the same rate, I'm now going to be paying more tax.

Martin 2

jank wrote: »

....We know that there will be no new taxes on income....

I believe anyone who receives an income should pay income tax* even if in the low tax cases it's just the cost of collecting the tax plus one euro. Paying tax is a social responsibility, it pays for hospitals, schools, social welfare etc. This would have been the ideal opportunity to bring everybody into the tax net. I realise the use of tax credits complicates things but perhaps 5% of people's tax could be paid on gross rather than what's currently taxable income.
This won't solve our budget deficit but at least there would be a sense that everyone is sharing the burden of getting ourselves out of the mess.


*this post is specifically about direct not indirect (VAT etc) taxes

.

ParkRunner

Colm R wrote: »

One of things thats been talked about is to get people who don't pay tax to start paying tax, whilst not increasing the tax burden of those already paying PAYE.

Now, I'm no expert, so perhaps someone could clarify.

Im no expert either but from what I gather by broadening the tax bands and reducing the starting point at which those who earn an income pay tax, will mean more low paid workers are brought into the tax net and those who are already PAYE workers will end up paying more tax as more of their income is taxable.

Taxes won't be raised but we will all still be paying more tax probably.

gerire

Of all the talk about trying to get people spending more, and stop going up north because most regular day to day stuff is just so cheap in comparison.

Why a a reduction in VAT being proposed anywhere

mikemac

Colm R wrote: »

So the question I have is, if they reduce my partners tax credits to bring her into the tax net, then they will also reduce my tax credits?
.

You could just marry the girl Colm R
It has its tax advantages

KELTICKNIGHTT

i see the u.k is uppering there vat from 15% to 17.5% after new year,i guess it didnt work for them

KELTICKNIGHTT

is the eco tax comming in this time

Colonel Sanders

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

i see the u.k is uppering there vat from 15% to 17.5% after new year,i guess it didnt work for them

The VAT cut in the UK was introduced as a temporary measure with a defined time frame

Dob74

I am sick of the government flying kites. Make up there minds and go for it.
I except I will have to pay more in tax. Just make up your mind and do it.
Nobody in government seems to be able to make a decision.
Just do it

nesf

Colm R wrote: »

One of things thats been talked about is to get people who don't pay tax to start paying tax, whilst not increasing the tax burden of those already paying PAYE.

Now, I'm no expert, so perhaps someone could clarify.

My partner does not pay any tax as she is on pretty low income and her tax credits wipe out the tax payable. If they want her to start paying tax (which is tough but fair to be honest) then they will have to reduce her tax credits.

I pay tax in the lower rate, and my tax credits do not wipe out my tax payable but does reduce it somewhat. We both have exactly the same tax credits - rent, paye and personal.

So the question I have is, if they reduce my partners tax credits to bring her into the tax net, then they will also reduce my tax credits?

So while I'm still paying the same rate, I'm now going to be paying more tax.

The only way to manage it would be to lower the allowances and lower the standard rate which would be a mess really. Most likely we'll see a decrease in allowances at some point over the next 2-3 years and an increase of the tax burden on all. I doubt it'll come this year though, it'll be hard enough to push public sector cuts through without increasing taxes on those earning under 30K a year.

The other option is a levy style system like the brought in already just with higher rates.

ninty9er

gerire wrote: »

Why a a reduction in VAT being proposed anywhere

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

i see the u.k is uppering there vat from 15% to 17.5% after new year,i guess it didnt work for them

That's why!

The only thing relatively safe at this point is the OAP.

Dannyboy83

nesf wrote: »

The only way to manage it would be to lower the allowances and lower the standard rate which would be a mess really. Most likely we'll see a decrease in allowances at some point over the next 2-3 years and an increase of the tax burden on all. I doubt it'll come this year though, it'll be hard enough to push public sector cuts through without increasing taxes on those earning under 30K a year.

The other option is a levy style system like the brought in already just with higher rates.

Couldn't you offset the lowering of the credits at the lower band, by giving a proportionate credit at the higher band?

That way people are on the lower band are brought into the net.
People on the higher band pay more at the lower level, and slighty less at the higher level, to balance it out.

I've not given that much thought admittedly so could be a stupid idea.

ninty9er

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Couldn't you offset the lowering of the credits at the lower band, by giving a proportionate credit at the higher band?

That way people are on the lower band are brought into the net.
People on the higher band pay more at the lower level, and slighty less at the higher level, to balance it out.

I've not given that much thought admittedly so could be a stupid idea.

credits aren't band dependent...it'd cost a fortune to administer more than likely.

johnnyskeleton

jank wrote: »

Very quiet on the budget front lately and its only a week away. Probably because government are more tight lipped than a frogs arse about the 4 billion of cuts that is coming.

So anyone know what is on the way? The news seems to be stuck in a flood /public sector strike cycle.

I think the government are going to prescribe aspirin for the country's appendecitis and tell us that it is a new breakthrough cure supported by all the world's leading doctors, and that anyone who is advocating removing the appendix is just being unrealistic.

So the debate on whether we get a full aspirin, a half aspirin or two aspirin is more of a sideshow than the main act. Hence government and media are quiet about it.

bangersandmash

Seemingly some form of car scrappage scheme might be on the cards

http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/car-scrappage-scheme-may-be-introduced-45865.html

I wonder when we can expect the property scrappage scheme.

X Ray

I recon there will be a deal done with the unions in the next 24-48 hours, it will be very interesting to see what comes out of it.

ninty9er

Doubt it, the only deal available to the unions is take it or leave it, they've been such moaners they're not going to take it, plus their members need another day to get the Christmas shopping done.

Slugs

I think the only thing definite about this budget is that FF are going to be shoved out the door after it.

X Ray

Slugs wrote: »

I think the only thing definite about this budget is that FF are going to be shoved out the door after it.

You can sing that one, I think there probably will be a deal and that the unions will go for but not like it. They will save the anger until the next election. Revenge being a dish best served cold and all that.

I was on strike last week and would sooner not do so again, but I will if I have to.

thebman

Car scraping scheme seems like a bad idea given we have no car factories here. Talk to Renault first, ask them to build one as they seem to be keen for a scrapage scheme

While at it, ask them to do a good rate on ministers cars and enough of these Mercs :P

Save some more money. Maybe instill some confidence in the economy by not having us freak about whats going to be in the next budget by telling us in advance so people know how much money they'll have and might be able to see if they can afford a new car in their own budgets.

yoshytoshy

thebman wrote: »

Car scraping scheme seems like a bad idea given we have no car factories here.

The whole scrappage thing is nonsense ,cars and oil are partly what got us into this horrible mess.

thebman

yoshytoshy wrote: »

The whole scrappage thing is nonsense ,cars and oil are partly what got us into this horrible mess.

If they do I'm sure it will be part of push an electric change over but we are nowhere near ready to do that yet.

We don't have the electricity supply or infrastructure in place yet to charge them.

Don't know when we will but that is when you have your scrapage scheme and get people moving from oil based cars to electric.

But get sustainable energy going in some form first. We seem to be crap at that. Maybe they can work out how to use the energy from floods since we will apparently have to get used to these as regular occurrences if you listen to some supposed climate "experts" :P

yoshytoshy

thebman wrote: »

If they do I'm sure it will be part of push an electric change over but we are nowhere near ready to do that yet.

We don't have the electricity supply or infrastructure in place yet to charge them.

Don't know when we will but that is when you have your scrapage scheme and get people moving from oil based cars to electric.

Thats the frame of mind I have myself ,nobody I know wants a new car(oil/petrol). It's back to a necessity and cars don't break down like they use to.(except for renault of course:rolleyes:)

Dannyboy83

Car Scheme is pointless.
There is already great value to be had and most people are scared to death of spending now anyway.
So only those who already have the means (or necessity) will benefit.

And even worse, if it did work, it'd just create another bubble.

nesf

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

And even worse, if it did work, it'd just create another bubble.

It wouldn't. At most it'll bring forward spending that would have been delayed a year or two.

yoshytoshy

nesf wrote: »

It wouldn't. At most it'll bring forward spending that would have been delayed a year or two.

If the government wants to get things going ,they should be working with retailers of clothes and household goods.
Something along the lines of a decreased tax rate ,the more you spend.
Tax breaks for going on holiday in ireland etc.

Dannyboy83

nesf wrote: »

It wouldn't. At most it'll bring forward spending that would have been delayed a year or two.

Yes, you're right, the economic conditions for a bubble simply don't exist.

Of course, bringing spending forward to 2010 means depriving 2011 & 2012 of said spending. I don't see how that's a good thing.

irish_bob

given a choice between swinging the axe themselves or waiting for the big bad IMF to dish the dirt , fianna fail will step aside , that way , they know that the suckers will forgive them in around ten years and vote them back in , ordinary people dont understand terms like 20 billion deficit , it means nothing to them , what does mean something is loosing 20 quid a week dole money or a grand a year child allowance , people can forgive the billions but not the small things