Another stroke of genius by Enda.

bijapos

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1127/breaking53.htm

Most of this stuff is being implemented now, seems to fall into the remit of the Green Party, doesn't seem to be too much new in it. Seems they want to privatise the energy sector, bad idea imo. Privatisation hasn't worked too well in some other countries that have gone down that road.

Apart from that it seems FG want to implement old ideas, and cannot seem to bring up an idea of their own, which to be frank is a bit wottying. Does anyone know if theres anything new in this document?

Clanrickard

bijapos wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1127/breaking53.htm

Most of this stuff is being implemented now, seems to fall into the remit of the Green Party, doesn't seem to be too much new in it. Seems they want to privatise the energy sector, bad idea imo. Privatisation hasn't worked too well in some other countries that have gone down that road.

Apart from that it seems FG want to implement old ideas, and cannot seem to bring up an idea of their own, which to be frank is a bit wottying. Does anyone know if theres anything new in this document?

No there is very little new in my opinion. This a reheated version of something they thought of at the beginning of the year.

alejandro1977

bijapos wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1127/breaking53.htm

Most of this stuff is being implemented now, seems to fall into the remit of the Green Party, doesn't seem to be too much new in it. Seems they want to privatise the energy sector, bad idea imo. Privatisation hasn't worked too well in some other countries that have gone down that road.

Apart from that it seems FG want to implement old ideas, and cannot seem to bring up an idea of their own, which to be frank is a bit wottying. Does anyone know if theres anything new in this document?

Given the absolutely crazy wage levels in the ESB this is a good thing. Don't get me started on the guys who were getting paid to clock in at an idle power plant

Time Magazine

bijapos wrote: »

Seems they want to privatise the energy sector, bad idea imo.

It'd be lovely if people actually read policy documents, wouldn't it?

"NewERA will establish a new State company, “Smart Grid”, by merging ESB Networks and Eirgrid."

Link.

meglome

bijapos wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1127/breaking53.htm

Most of this stuff is being implemented now, seems to fall into the remit of the Green Party, doesn't seem to be too much new in it. Seems they want to privatise the energy sector, bad idea imo. Privatisation hasn't worked too well in some other countries that have gone down that road.

You do realise we have very expensive electricity right? Being generated by an overpaid, overstaffed and often unaccountable state organisation?

Privatisation may not be always be the answer but it's certainly a very valid proposal.

bijapos

@ Time Magazine. I hadn't read the document which is why I asked if akyone had access to it. If you read the article from the IT Simon Coveney is quoted as saying FG want to sell the ESB and Bord Gais:

There is no longer a need for the state to own and run Bord Gais, ESB International and ESB Power Gen & Supply,” he said. “Fine Gael will divest the state of these assets when the market and other conditions are appropriate.

It's also mentioned on the first page of the link that you posted.(thanks for that btw)

I do agree that there are major problems in the running of a lot of state bodies, but that is something that we have to deal with as a nation, not just in the ESB but in the civil and public service in general, but as we know there are enough threads on this at the moment. Whatever way we look at it, the ESB provides a service, private companies are in it to make a profit. There is a difference, andf while I see the benefit in privatising some state bodies, the ESB is not one of them (IMO). I do not think that it would lead to a long term drop in energy prices.

RedPlanet

meglome wrote: »

You do realise we have very expensive electricity right? Being generated by an overpaid, overstaffed and often unaccountable state organisation?

Privatisation may not be always be the answer but it's certainly a very valid proposal.

Yeah, it worked out really well for us with Eircom remember?
The reality is, the irish market is too small to attract energy corporations setting up shop here. There's not enough a customer base to make it particularly worth their bother.

Also, weren't electricity prices kept artificially high for the last 10 years in an effort to attract private engergy suppliers?

kmick

Yes because pivatisation really worked in the case of Eircom didnt it??? I mean nobody really minds if it gets privatised but dont try and tell us its somehow going to be better for the country. Somebodies mate who can borrow enough from private investors will buy it, asset strip/layoff and sell it on. Back to the drawing board Enda/Simon.

ragg

alejandro1977 wrote: »

Given the absolutely crazy wage levels in the ESB this is a good thing. Don't get me started on the guys who were getting paid to clock in at an idle power plant

Its a profitable company, so i dont see how this comes into it

ragg

Time Magazine wrote: »

It'd be lovely if people actually read policy documents, wouldn't it?

"NewERA will establish a new State company, “Smart Grid”, by merging ESB Networks and Eirgrid."

Link.

Yes, but they want to sell off the power generation arms & keep the infastructure side as state run, which is unsustainable

marco_polo

Unlike Eircom at the time, the ESB no longer own the infrastucture.

And the 'service' that customer supply side provide is done at better value by both Airtricity and Board Gais.

ragg

Is that true? I thought it was a owned by wholey owned ESB subsidary. So it was seperated from the power generation business, but still owned by the ESB group.

alejandro1977

ragg wrote: »

Its a profitable company, so i dont see how this comes into it

You don't?!

It's profitable as they charge through the nose for their product; just like Aer Lingus were able to do before Ryanair.

ragg

alejandro1977 wrote: »

You don't?!

It's profitable as they charge through the nose for their product; just like Aer Lingus were able to do before Ryanair.

But there is competition in the industry from Eirtricity, bord gais and a few im led to believe more is on the way.
This will drive costs down, not selling it off bit by bit to the highest bidder

alejandro1977

kmick wrote: »

Yes because pivatisation really worked in the case of Eircom didnt it??? I mean nobody really minds if it gets privatised but dont try and tell us its somehow going to be better for the country. Somebodies mate who can borrow enough from private investors will buy it, asset strip/layoff and sell it on. Back to the drawing board Enda/Simon.

If they get rid of the waste, corruption and dead wood they it will be a good thing.

Asset Strip? Such as? This is a cliche thrown out by Unions; Eircom is a basket case because it was so badly run for ages, tech innovation has had a huge impact and undermined the only real resource they had - the last mile infrastructure (this was what investors sought not a highly skilled or motivated workforce)

jank

Can they do the same with CIE?:)

nesf

ragg wrote: »

Yes, but they want to sell off the power generation arms & keep the infastructure side as state run, which is unsustainable

Why is it unsustainable?

pljudge321

For reference ESB hold about 35% of the country's current generation capacity, a great deal of that being less efficient old plant that is further down on eirgrids list.

kmick

alejandro1977 wrote: »

If they get rid of the waste, corruption and dead wood they it will be a good thing.

Asset Strip? Such as? This is a cliche thrown out by Unions; Eircom is a basket case because it was so badly run for ages, tech innovation has had a huge impact and undermined the only real resource they had - the last mile infrastructure (this was what investors sought not a highly skilled or motivated workforce)

Waste? Just like they did in Eircom where the employees own 1/3rd of the 4 billion debt that the company is in.
Asset stripping - remember this?
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BMD/is_231_6/ai_67637219/
Good decision in retrospect you think?