Should the Bishop stay or go?

getz

a member of a club who preaches the christian way and morals,yet does not practice them themselves,even if he leaves,he will still keep a job,in a backword part of the world

TheSpecialOne

Even if he didnt do anything wrong maybe its time to go,because this controversy will forever follow him wherever he goes and a lot of people will not forget these accusations...and if they are true then he should obviously depart....I hate the secrecy the church use's and i fear they are hiding even more perverts and other crimes.

billy the squid

Limerick Leader scrubbed their poll on whether the bishop should resign or not

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/Why-our-poll-on-Bishop.5873228.jp

Reasoning behind the decision to pull the poll.

this calls for a poll don't you think

ninty9er

Yesterday's Examiner seemed to specifically say that since he has been Bishop of Limerick every accusation made has been referred to both the HSE and Gardaí. One would assume this is not something he took up only when he became Bishop of Limerick, so if he reported the abuses, but nothing was done, it's not exactly his fault is it?

I haven't voted yet as I haven't seen all the facts.

Balagan

billy the squid wrote: »

Limerick Leader scrubbed their poll on whether the bishop should resign or not

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/Why-our-poll-on-Bishop.5873228.jp

Reasoning behind the decision to pull the poll.

this calls for a poll don't you think

I am sorry to see that a moderator added a poll to this thread today. While I started the thread, it is, of course, not mine, but I put no trust in polls and instead put much store by the comments, when they are made and how they are made.

wylo

I think a poll is good idea, it will give a genuine summarized reflection on how everyone on the Limerick forum feels about this.

--amadeus--

ninty9er wrote: »

Yesterday's Examiner seemed to specifically say that since he has been Bishop of Limerick every accusation made has been referred to both the HSE and Gardaí. One would assume this is not something he took up only when he became Bishop of Limerick, so if he reported the abuses, but nothing was done, it's not exactly his fault is it?

I haven't voted yet as I haven't seen all the facts.

I've bolded the relevant part of your post.

Some clarity on exactly what the report says would be good but based on the media coverage his position must be untenable and criminal charges must be a possibility.

Put it another way, if you had someone working for you who was exposed in media reports as sheltering people who had stolen cash from thier employer would you leave them in charge of managing money, or managing the people who manage money? Or would you shuffle them off on leave until a proper investigation could be made?

And if the investigation showed that they had sheltered criminals while you employed them would you continue to employ them?

(hypothetical moral question, I know you'd probably end up in an Employment Tribunal if you did sack them)

pathway33

zuroph wrote: »

has anyone a link to the actual mention of him in the report please? I hear they say his actions (or lack of) were inexcusable, I'd like to know what exactly he did.

I can't link it but the entire report is in pdf format online. I got it from the rte website. I just did 'Control F' 'murray' to find every mention of him

mcmoustache

Let the DPP and the Gárdaí sort it out. No, seripously, it's a straight-forward justice matter. Crimes were committed and some people were accessories(correct me if that's not the word I'm looking for) to it by covering up or obstructing the course of justice.

Rio 2016

How come all the media attention is centred around Donal Murray. When we should be focusing our attentions on crucifying the perverts responsible for the sh*te that has been committed.

Once that has been taken care of then we can concentrate on what the bishop did or did not do.

duff123

It seems to me the leaders of the church and all other bishops are delighted with Donal Murray taking the flack for the whole report. They all seem to be happy once they are out of the spotlight.

--amadeus--

tommy249 wrote: »

So you are saying that EVERY single clergy man should be investigated now if they are going to make bishop despite the fact that most are decent hard working human beings. Hardly seems fair. Talk about painting everyone with the same brush.

Anyone working with children goes through a Gardai clearance. Why should clergy be any different. In fact if you use criminal profiling it would seem that clergy *should* be under significantly closer scrutiny than those in any other job.

times'a'wastin

wylo wrote: »

Im actually lost as to why these people arent being brought to court. Especially the guys who actually covered it up. Fair enough the others should just resign . Its shocking he hasnt resigned yet, its a disgrace. The only good thats coming out of all this is that its showing that rotten organisation that is the catholic church for what it really is.

The church get away with so much in this country it is unbelievable :mad:

I think he should be ashamed of himself and leave straight away

catchup

The Murray Report only deals with the Dublin Archdiocese. Is there any reason to believe there isnt also a similar number of cover-ups perpetrated over the years in the Limerick Diocese? When will the abused in this diocese get the opportunity to have their say?

pathway33

catchup wrote: »

The Murray Report only deals with the Dublin Archdiocese. Is there any reason to believe there isnt also a similar number of cover-ups perpetrated over the years in the Limerick Diocese? When will the abused in this diocese get the opportunity to have their say?

After the report came out last week a bishop said there should be no more investigations into the rest of the country because it was the same pattern. Can you believe that? He's admitted there were cover ups in other counties and nothing should be done!!!

Why should it be up to the bishops to decide which diocese get investigated. The state has to take control

Run_to_da_hills

Out with him and any others that were involved in this appalling cover up atrocity.!

After this report no pastor or Christian leader should ever speak highly of the Catholic Church because It stinks with the rot of Hell.

The fact that the Vatican has snubbed this whole Murphy report goes to prove that the Pope and his followers are only the representatives of Satan!

The Roman Catholic Church is nothing more than an evil pagan cult that is dressed up in words and names that are found in the Bible.

Rio 2016

There is only one sure thing surrounding the whole controversy and that is the Catholic Church is fu**ed. It may take 5,10, 15 , 20 years but eventually the Church will fold up.

This is a shame as there are so many good, honest and caring people in the Church but how can anyone distinguish these people from the perverted ***** who have been allowed to continue abusing innocent young children for years and those who facilitated the abuse.

Would anyone agree with me that the daeth penalty is the only suitable punishment for these criminals.

Run_to_da_hills

Rio 2016 wrote: »

There is only one sure thing surrounding the whole controversy and that is the Catholic Church is fu**ed. It may take 5,10, 15 , 20 years but eventually the Church will fold up.

This is a shame as there are so many good, honest and caring people in the Church but how can anyone distinguish these people from the perverted ***** who have been allowed to continue abusing innocent young children for years and those who facilitated the abuse.

Would anyone agree with me that the daeth penalty is the only suitable punishment for these criminals.

It is not a shame, the day of reckoning has finally come, the chickens have come home to roost. Those good, honest and caring people will in time discover that the Roman Catholic Church is but no church at all but is a heathen organization. There are plenty of other denomonations within the country besides the Catholic Church.

RonMexico

I see the Bishop wants to think about this for a month and has asked people to pray for him.

One of two things:

1: He has learnt nothing from all of this and is showing the same indecision and hesitation to act that resulted in him being in the Murphy Report.

2: He is a cute whore and thinks that this will all blow over.


RESIGN NOW!!:mad:

ninty9er

I've read all sections in the report which refer to Bishop Murray, and while his handling wasn't the best, there is no mention that child abuse was ever reported to him while he was Auxilliary Bishop, and where "suspicions" were brought to his attention that he raised them with the Archbishop and the Monsignor involved.

He also seems to have been quite critical of the Archdiocese himself when interviewed by the Murphy Commission.

While his handling might not be what civil society would deem appropriate, he was under the direction of an Archbishop and Canon Law. It's not an excuse, because where suspicions were raised they were investigated and reports made to superiors, it's just unfortunate for him that he is where the buck stops as the rest of these people are dead and buried, but deserve the main brunt of the public backlash.

Yes/No decisions are binary, but I would not be 100%, or anywhere close in favour of him staying as he has not taken decisions in the interests of civil justice at all times, but rather referred them to his superiors to make., but neither do I think it is fair that the brunt of this report has fallen on him.

wylo

Maybe its not fair that the brunt of the report has fallen on him, but at the end of the day, it has, and this is a yes no decision and its one hes refusing to deal with. He should either stick to his guns and refuse to resign if he feels innocent, or simply resign based on the fact that he has been brought up in the report on several occasions, and also based on what his would his resignation would represent for the church. Hes making both himself and the church look very bad right now by floating in the middle hoping that it blows over.
His indecision looks worse than a refusal to resign.

phog

Has everyone that voted read the Murphy report? In a vote like this I think people should be making an informed choice rahter that going on headline news.

Rio 2016

ninty9er wrote: »

I've read all sections in the report which refer to Bishop Murray, and while his handling wasn't the best, there is no mention that child abuse was ever reported to him while he was Auxilliary Bishop, and where "suspicions" were brought to his attention that he raised them with the Archbishop and the Monsignor involved.

He also seems to have been quite critical of the Archdiocese himself when interviewed by the Murphy Commission.

While his handling might not be what civil society would deem appropriate, he was under the direction of an Archbishop and Canon Law. It's not an excuse, because where suspicions were raised they were investigated and reports made to superiors, it's just unfortunate for him that he is where the buck stops as the rest of these people are dead and buried, but deserve the main brunt of the public backlash.

Yes/No decisions are binary, but I would not be 100%, or anywhere close in favour of him staying as he has not taken decisions in the interests of civil justice at all times, but rather referred them to his superiors to make., but neither do I think it is fair that the brunt of this report has fallen on him.

Very good point. Leave bishop Murray to the side, what is needed from the report is a criminal investigation.

wylo

phog wrote: »

Has everyone that voted read the Murphy report? In a vote like this I think people should be making an informed choice rahter that going on headline news.

well thats a good point , but to be fair, the news hasnt twisted it much
heres the report
http://www.irishtimes.com/focus/2009/diocese/1234.pdf

Go to page 22 , where there was suspicions over Fr Naughton, Murray never acted after there was factual evidence revealed in another parish of Fr Naughtons abuse.
Were not talking about some money backhander , or tax dodging here, were talking peoples lives being absolutely ruined, some even driven to suicide.

That to me is so serious that it IS inexcusable.

Builderfromhell

Some of you might find this part of a debate with Stephen Fry interesting;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-q8US0QRs4&feature=related

Firefox10

On RTE news this morning:





Bishop Murray resignation expected

[URL="javascript:showPlayer('abuse_av.html')"] [/URL] Monday, 7 December 2009 09:54
Bishop of Limerick Donal Murray has travelled to Rome where he is expected to tender his resignation to the Pope.
This follows criticism of him in the Murphy report into clerical child sex abuse in the Dublin Catholic Archdiocese.
There has been no official comment, but the Bishop told parishioners yesterday he was 'reflecting on the decision he now has to make'.


On Saturday Cardinal Seán Brady called on all named in the report to act soon in light of the Commission's findings that cover-ups of clerical child abuse had taken place in the Dublin Archdiocese.
Cardinal Brady is due to travel to the Vatican next week to discuss the Murphy report with Pope Benedict.
Cardinal Brady will be accompanied by Archbishop Diarmuid Martin.

oh well

I haven't read the full report but have read quite a bit of it. I also find it totally inconceivable that Donal Murray didn't do anything about the priest who abused Peter McCloskey in Caherdavin either. He did absolutely nothing to assist in the investigations in that case as well but it seems to be not getting any attention focused on it at all. Even when we was "found out" by McCloskey to have not been truthful about the priest's history, he still didn't seem to have any morals to do the right thing.

My 11 yr old asked me today why we don't go to mass anymore - without telling her the whole sordid disgusing truth I told her an abbrievated story. It was fairly simple in her mind - you always tell the police when you know someone did something wrong.

Murray didn't. Go Murray, go.

--amadeus--

8 people say he should stay.

I'm genuinely interested to know why?

Paulegend

--amadeus-- wrote: »

8 people say he should stay.

I'm genuinely interested to know why?

they are all Bishop Murray in different accounts:D

Run_to_da_hills

The Vatican is due to make the formal announcement at 11am tommorow morning.

http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/16978126/?view=Standard