Dis-info agents

Penn

mysterious wrote: »

Just maybe Venus and Mars are perfect for life right now.

Maybe NASA dont want to tell us that, like many "other" things!.

People will keep assuming everyone else is making thigns up, but oooooh no NASA is god and NASA is always right?

You are aware NASA has a nickname

Never give a straight answers?

NGASA?

Besides which, just because you don't believe NASA doesn't mean you can just fill in the blanks.

RoboClam

mysterious wrote: »

And just because he believes aliens are on Mars doesn't mean hes nuts. A lot lof his claims he made over the years are coming out.


I think Venus has civilzations on it. Mars had civilizations on it, all you need to do research and see for yourself the evidence of what "was" on Mars. Mars can support Life(even now). Mars can have underground cities too. Nasa have been lieing about the true colour of Mars and many other things they lie about the nature of our solar system. NASA just don't want to say these things. So if NASA wont say whats real, of course there is no life out there and nothing out there" moves" and everyone else is "nuts". I don't see how this fits with your claim that John is nuts.

(shakes head)

You say you're doing your own research. How? Based on what? The only reason you think that "Mars had civilizations on it" is due to the photos taken by NASA I'd assume.

I don't know why you think that Venus has a civilisation on it. The planet has no protective planetary magnetic field and the atmospheric pressure is 92 times more than Earth.

http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/1994/94JE00388.shtml

The planet has few impact crators, demonstrating that the surface is relatively young, approximately half a billion years old.

Doesn't seem like enough time for a great civilisation to evolve, let alone multicellular organisms. Oh, and the temperature reaches 467°C.

You'll probably say that there is life out there, but not as we know it etc. You'd probably be right, but that is no reason to assume that there would be the life on Venus.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

Just maybe Venus and Mars are perfect for life right now.

And maybe NASA aren't lying and that people on the internet are making stuff up?
Is this an impossible scenario.

mysterious wrote: »

People will keep assuming everyone else is making thigns up, but oooooh no NASA is god and NASA is always right?

I'm not assuming NASA is always right because I think they're god.
I know NASA is right because Nasa provides peer reviewed scientific evidence, which is confirmed by other space agencies and other scientific insistutions.
Everyone else, you included, do not provide any evidence and such claims are indistinguishable from fantasy.

So tell us mysterious how do you know everything you've read about NASA isn't dis (or mis) information?

espinolman

King Mob wrote: »

And how do you know this exactly?
Sounds like dis-info to me.

Specifically sounds like Scientology's dis-info.

There are people all over the world who can remember past lives , so what happens to people in between lifetimes ? so you see what John Lear has been saying is not outlandish at all , and its been known long before Scientology came about , what happens to people when they die , the Incas knew what happened to people when they die and other ancient civilisations knew and today its becoming common knowledge thanks to Scientology and other movements which are educating the world as to the facts .

King Mob

espinolman wrote: »

There are people all over the world who can remember past lives , so what happens to people in between lifetimes ?

How many of these people who remember past lives have you actually talked to and been able to confirm independently that they are remembering information form their past lives?
Or are you just believing what you read on the internet?
Is it possible that this is either people lying or being mislead?

espinolman wrote: »

so you see what John Lear has been saying is not outlandish at all ,

No not really.
Mostly because there is no evidence for what he is claiming.

How exactly do you know he's not making it up?

espinolman wrote: »

and its been known long before Scientology came about , what happens to people when they die , the Incas knew what happened to people when they die and other ancient civilisations knew

And can you show any evidence this is true?

Where exactly did the Incas say that when you died you go to venus?

espinolman wrote: »

and today its becoming common knowledge thanks to Scientology and other movements which are educating the world as to the facts .

For a nominal fee, of course.

RoboClam

espinolman wrote: »

There are people all over the world who can remember past lives , so what happens to people in between lifetimes ? so you see what John Lear has been saying is not outlandish at all , and its been known long before Scientology came about , what happens to people when they die , the Incas knew what happened to people when they die and other ancient civilisations knew and today its becoming common knowledge thanks to Scientology and other movements which are educating the world as to the facts .

The Incas didn't know anything about nutrition or germ theory or gravity or immunology or chemistry or...The list is endless.

Why are you looking to the distant past as a source, rather than today. We are far more educated today than any ancient civilisation.

bonkey

Back on topic pls.

mysterious

If we trusted our own intellegence, intuition, awareness and senses. the Dis info agents would find it really difficult to survive in that environment your in touch with. Trusting your higher self. Dis info agents are simply people or agents that are trying to decieve, because they do not want you to know what they know. So thats what creates power. By keeping it in the hands of a few.

Diogenes

mysterious wrote: »

And just because he believes aliens are on Mars doesn't mean hes nuts.

Not but because he think that the Orson Welles esque hoax documentaryAlternative 3 is real, means he's nuts.

A lot lof his claims he made over the years are coming out.

If you make a demented amount of claims over the years, eventually something will come true. For example Alex Jones has been claiming for decades before and after 9/11 that a false flag terrorist threat would happen within months. It's like standing at the side of motorway junction and claiming that an accident will happen here "within the next few weeks", for years, and then when an accident does occur shout "I was right!"

I think Venus has civilzations on it. Mars had civilizations on it, all you need to do research and see for yourself the evidence of what "was" on Mars. Mars can support Life(even now)

No evidence to support any of this.

. Mars can have underground cities too. Nasa have been lieing about the true colour of Mars

NASA and apparently anyone with a decent telescope. In fact anyone with a 3 or 4 inch telescope (something available in the shops) can not just make out the colour of Mars, but geographical details.

To bring this back onto the thread topic, this idea that the tens of thousands of people employed by NASA, or the thousands of independent observatories around the globe, not to mention hundreds of thousands of amateur stargazers are all disinfo, is obviously absurd.

and many other things they lie about the nature of our solar system. NASA just don't want to say these things. So if NASA wont say whats real, of course there is no life out there and nothing out there" moves" and everyone else is "nuts". I don't see how this fits with your claim that John is nuts.

(shakes head)

Mr Lear is deluded. But I think you have this weird ideal that NASA controls all information about our solar system. You've clearly not spent time on the astronomy forum.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

If we trusted our own intellegence, intuition, awareness and senses. the Dis info agents would find it really difficult to survive in that environment your in touch with. Trusting your higher self. Dis info agents are simply people or agents that are trying to decieve, because they do not want you to know what they know. So thats what creates power. By keeping it in the hands of a few.

So basically stick your fingers in your ears and shout lalalala, because your "higher self" can't possibly be wrong?

Is it possible mysterious that intuition can be wrong?

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

So basically stick your fingers in your ears and shout lalalala, because your "higher self" can't possibly be wrong?

Is it possible mysterious that intuition can be wrong?

Its not about been right or wrong. Your mistakes are important, to note that its ok to make mistakes as long as you learn.

Trusting your intuition is important. It's not exactly black or white. Shes right and hes wrong. It's a waste of energy to be so fixated on that logic.

Diogenes

mysterious wrote: »

Its not about been right or wrong. Your mistakes are important, to note that its ok to make mistakes as long as you learn.

So your thoughts on my last point are?

Trusting your intuition is important. It's not exactly black or white. Shes right and hes wrong. It's a waste of energy to be so fixated on that logic.

Certain things are black and white. Fire burns and so forth.

mysterious

Diogenes wrote: »

So your thoughts on my last point are?



Certain things are black and white. Fire burns and so forth.

And then there is the grey area. I like to look at all things, because when we think outside the box, we learn that everything is not black and white.

My thoughts on your last post, is just your opinion and basing that it doesnt exist if no evidence is handed out to you on a platter. Like saying if you cant see something behind the wall, you could say there is nothing there. The lack of evidence does not mean there is no evidence. It's ironic that you call a lot of truthseekers deluded, but you have a corrupt government and media telling us lies everyday? Do they escape the onslaught of your biased judgments?

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

Its not about been right or wrong. Your mistakes are important, to note that its ok to make mistakes as long as you learn.

Trusting your intuition is important. It's not exactly black or white. Shes right and hes wrong. It's a waste of energy to be so fixated on that logic.

But the claims here are statements of fact. So they are either fact or not fact.

You're making these claims purely on you intuition. And you argee that neither you or you intuition are infallible.
So is it possible that your claims are not factual?

Is it possible that all you say about NASA isn't true?

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

Like saying if you cant see something behind the wall, you could say there is nothing there. The lack of evidence does not mean there is no evidence.

But here's the thing you don't seem to get:
Let's take your example of something behind the wall.
We can't see what's behind the wall so we have no way of making any factual statements about what could be behind it, if there is anything at all.

However what you are doing is comparable to saying that there is a giant purple monkey behind the wall.

mysterious wrote: »

My thoughts on your last post, is just your opinion and basing that it doesnt exist if no evidence is handed out to you on a platter.

But that's not why we are asking for evidence, we are asking what evidence or reasoning leads you to believe in the claims you make.

So far it seems indistinguishable from fantasy.

espinolman

RoboClam wrote: »

Why are you looking to the distant past as a source, rather than today

Ok take the dollar bill , the pyramid on it is the gates to mars , and then there is the architecture in washington . :rolleyes:

mysterious

espinolman wrote: »

Ok take the dollar bill , the pyramid on it is the gates to mars , and then there is the architecture in washington . :rolleyes:

They even have pyramids on mars. In Cydonia. Mars was an old earth, and it destroyed itself. We could end up like that if we dont start realising the world we are not been informed about.

Diogenes

mysterious wrote: »

They even have pyramids on mars. In Cydonia. Mars was an old earth, and it destroyed itself. We could end up like that if we dont start realising the world we are not been informed about.

I find it hilarious that you deny NASA is trustworthy let you base your claims about faces and pyramids on Mars on the viking 1 and 2 probes.

mysterious

Diogenes wrote: »

I find it hilarious that you deny NASA is trustworthy let you base your claims about faces and pyramids on Mars on the viking 1 and 2 probes.

No the funny part is, We don't make any opinion of it, unless NASA says its an alien civilzation. We expect these cooporations to tell us everything. There is evidence everywhere, but we just want this teeny umpfh of disclosure by NASA. I mean you can see man made structures and you can see the pyramids on mars, but we just don't believe they are really are what they are, unless NASA tell us. We've spent 50 years with this stagnation, while NASA are now 80 years ahead of what they are disclosiing to us. That will continue too, if we don't find away of bringing the power back into the public hands. Even JFK tried to pass an amendement that did exactly that. But that got him killed. So many things that go on behind scenes will remain so until we take a stand.

It's like the microbial sample they found on a martian meteorite. But Clinton was told only to say maybe its life. It's better to expose things like this and then brush under the carpet so we just all carry on assuming NASA are "telling us the truth" Like planet X, expose it and then brush it under the stairs.

It's like Atlantis, they are cities under water pre ice age. But people want Obama to tell us. We want our governments to tell our true history. They don't and they dont need too. We ourselves need to get out and find out our own truth. This is what I've learnt when doing research. Things start to fall into place and many things that were unknown become smack into the knowns, and you understand it for what it is.

Nasa say things like "we maybe the only ones out there in the universe":D

espinolman

I was listening to John Lear recently on coast to coast and i gathered from listening to him that he knows a lot , i think he really does know whats going on , he knows more than the rest of them on that programme the other week .

namloc1980

mysterious wrote: »

They even have pyramids on mars. In Cydonia. Mars was an old earth, and it destroyed itself. We could end up like that if we dont start realising the world we are not been informed about.

Do they? NASA provided the images of the martian surface but you say NASA are not trustworthy....so why do you believe the images that are produced by NASA that show the 'face' and 'pyramids' are real??



doesn't look much like a face but more like an interesting geological feature.

mysterious

espinolman wrote: »

I was listening to John Lear recently on coast to coast and i gathered from listening to him that he knows a lot , i think he really does know whats going on , he knows more than the rest of them on that programme the other week .

He does, and hes allowed to know. I think this point has to be taken into an account. The game is rolling and more and more people are speaking out. I've spoken to him on ATS a few years ago. And I did get the feeling that hes an agent working behind the vail to get the info out there. The stuff he was saying years ago, was just not allowed to be said. He was getting some abuse for it, and the truth is many people now take a lot of credit to him and his work. He does want the truth out there.

So my 2 cents is, He's an agent, but hes not a dis info agent.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

I mean you can see man made structures and you can see the pyramids on mars, but we just don't believe they are really are what they are, unless NASA tell us.

You see these "structures" on NASA photos.
So how can you say that you can't trust NASA's images but then say you should look at their images for evidence? It doesn't make any sense.

And how do you know that they are man made?

mysterious wrote: »

We've spent 50 years with this stagnation, while NASA are now 80 years ahead of what they are disclosiing to us.

And how exactly do you know that NASA have this information?
What leads you to this conclusion?
How do you know that you're not being mislead or lied to about NASA?

mysterious

King Mob wrote: »

You see these "structures" on NASA photos.
So how can you say that you can't trust NASA's images but then say you should look at their images for evidence? It doesn't make any sense.

And how do you know that they are man made?


And how exactly do you know that NASA have this information?
What leads you to this conclusion?
How do you know that you're not being mislead or lied to about NASA?

No again your twisting my words. I never said ANYTHING about not trusting images. Go back and read my post carefully, AND I might just answer a topical question.

However, I will say this. I trust myself very much. I know what NASA are up too. I don't need to convince you of that. You need to convince yourself whether you think NASA are not hiding the truth.

King Mob

mysterious wrote: »

No again your twisting my words. I never said ANYTHING about not trusting images. Go back and read my post carefully, AND I might just answer a topical question.

You said NASA are always altering images.
You also said that there are structures visible in NASA images.

How do you know which ones are fake?

mysterious wrote: »

However, I will say this. I trust myself very much. I know what NASA are up too. I don't need to convince you of that. You need to convince yourself whether you think NASA are not hiding the truth.

So want leads you to this conclusion?
How do you know you aren't mistaken or mislead?
That's all I'm asking.

namloc1980

mysterious wrote: »

Nasa have been lieing about the true colour of Mars

Please explain how this can be?? I just nipped outside to have a look, maybe you should too. Mars is due East and low in the sky at the moment but will rise during the night and even with just my eyes I can see that it is RED! Please explain.

mysterious wrote: »

So if NASA wont say whats real, of course there is no life out there and nothing out there" moves" and everyone else is "nuts".

Please show us where NASA categorically states there is no other life out there, or where they have stated that nothing out there "moves" (what exactly does this mean??) or even where they say "everyone else is nuts"???

espinolman

They had Buzz Aldrin put into a psychiatric hospital to shut him up and they did air brush the moon photos .

King Mob

espinolman wrote: »

They had Buzz Aldrin put into a psychiatric hospital to shut him up and they did air brush the moon photos .

Yep, that's not true.
A perfect example of misinformation being thrown out as fact by someone who hasn't bothered to examine it.

If they wanted to shut Buzz up how come he does so many interviews?

And which photos did they airbrush?
The glossy publicity ones?

espinolman

King Mob wrote: »

If they wanted to shut Buzz up how come he does so many interviews?

And he gets ill when asked about the moon , what did they do to him ?

namloc1980

espinolman wrote: »

And he gets ill when asked about the moon , what did they do to him ?

Wow, talk about dis-info and making stuff up!

King Mob

espinolman wrote: »

And he gets ill when asked about the moon , what did they do to him ?

What are you talking about?

Buzz doesn't shut up about the Moon.

How do you know that he was put into a psychiatric hospital?

tony 2 tone

espinolman wrote: »

And he gets ill when asked about the moon , what did they do to him ?

Ill? Like it causes a nasty twitch in his right arm ill?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUI36tPKDg4

Diogenes

mysterious wrote: »

No again your twisting my words. I never said ANYTHING about not trusting images.

You quite clearly said "NASA are lieing (sic) about the colour of Mars".

However, I will say this. I trust myself very much. I know what NASA are up too. I don't need to convince you of that

A dogmatic response not based on a intellectual assessment of facts. You trust yourself. NASA consists of thousands of decent hard working people, who you constantly vilify.

. You need to convince yourself whether you think NASA are not hiding the truth.[/QUOTE]

IrelandSpirit

Astroturfing, aka 'rent a crowd' Wealthy elites have hired people to propagate disinfo for centuries, so thinking that dis-info agents aren't on the net is a very nieve notion, to say the least.

Having the resources, it's easy to hire people to monitor threads and misinform, or simply cause disruption whenever a thread starts moving in a meaningful direction - this seems to be the preferred tactic, along with general hostility and ridicule which amounts to the same thing: disruption. Eventually the integrity of the thread is undermined and genuine seekers of information, who perhaps might have had a positive input to offer too, become tired and disillusioned, and go away because they have better things to be doing.

espinolman

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

along with general hostility and ridicule which amounts to the same thing: disruption.

I have noticed that certain forums on the net have become private because of the above and there is a situation where knowledge and information is not getting out .

namloc1980

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Astroturfing, aka 'rent a crowd' Wealthy elites have hired people to propagate disinfo for centuries, so thinking that dis-info agents aren't on the net is a very nieve notion, to say the least.

Having the resources, it's easy to hire people to monitor threads and misinform, or simply cause disruption whenever a thread starts moving in a meaningful direction - this seems to be the preferred tactic, along with general hostility and ridicule which amounts to the same thing: disruption. Eventually the integrity of the thread is undermined and genuine seekers of information, who perhaps might have had a positive input to offer too, become tired and disillusioned, and go away because they have better things to be doing.

Or maybe it's simply that there are people that don't believe the groundless, made up stuff that most CT's comprise of these days???

espinolman

namloc1980 wrote: »

Or maybe it's simply that there are people that don't believe the groundless, made up stuff that most CT's comprise of these days???

Do you think this thread is about conspiracy theory forums ? , the thread is about a theory that there are dis-info agents posting in forums on the net , not only CT forums , it could be any forum on the net , excluding boards.ie forums .

IrelandSpirit

espinolman wrote: »

I have noticed that certain forums on the net have become private because of the above and there is a situation where knowledge and information is not getting out .

Yep, in many ways it is understandable. It can take considerable time and energy to engage on a forum, especially if you're tired from work etc, and I can definitely see why som people would be attracted to the private ones...

namloc1980

espinolman wrote: »

Do you think this thread is about conspiracy theory forums ? , the thread is about a theory that there are dis-info agents posting in forums on the net , not only CT forums , it could be any forum on the net , excluding boards.ie forums .

I know what the thread is about....but isn't it possible that these paid dis-info forum posters actually don't exist but are may just be regular people who don't believe CTs and want to put their own point across!

IrelandSpirit

namloc1980 wrote: »

Or maybe it's simply that there are people that don't believe the groundless, made up stuff that most CT's comprise of these days???

Well, this is it. I for one, and I would imagine the majority of people who have work and other comitments, don't hang around CT forums if I believed it was all groundless and made up stuff. What for?

namloc1980

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Well, this is it. I for one, and I would imagine the majority of people who have work and other comitments, don't hang around CT forums if I believed it was all groundless and made up stuff. What for?

Because it's a discussion/debate between groups of vastly differing views. That's what forums are for! If everyone agreed about everything, forums would be crap.

IrelandSpirit

namloc1980 wrote: »

I know what the thread is about....but isn't it possible that these paid dis-info forum posters actually don't exist but are may just be regular people who don't believe CTs and want to put their own point across!

I'm sure some are just sceptics who do just want to put their point across. But that doesn't mean paid agents don't exist. Highly unlikely, looking back in history from the time of Caesar onwards they've existed, why wouldn't they exist now?

namloc1980

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

I'm sure some are just sceptics who do just want to put their point across. But that doesn't mean paid agents don't exist. Highly unlikely, looking back in history from the time of Caesar onwards they've existed, why wouldn't they exist now?

They may exist but I think it's just too easy to dismiss someone's point of view as meaning....oh they must be paid to say that.

IrelandSpirit

namloc1980 wrote: »

Because it's a discussion/debate between groups of vastly differing views. That's what forums are for! If everyone agreed about everything, forums would be crap.

Well that's what I just said, I agree it's a discussion/debate between groups of vastly differing views, I'm talking about constant ridicule, general hostility and disruption. That's one very effective way agents compromise an argument. There's an article I posted on an earlier post you might want to look at. The website it's on was rubbished here quite a lot, but I think the info is sound enough - just talks about dis-info tactics.

IrelandSpirit

namloc1980 wrote: »

They may exist but I think it's just too easy to dismiss someone's point of view as meaning....oh they must be paid to say that.

You're right.

IrelandSpirit

Diogenes wrote: »

I don't believe Lear is dis-info, I think he's out and out nuts. There was a fake british documentary in the 70s or 80s about NASA proof about aliens on Mars, Lear thinks it's real.

No he is not nuts, and I don't think Leer believes that doc is real, he believes that ETs are real, and even so, so what? does that make the info he presents any less relevant?

Many other scientists too, from which we derive our consensus ideas of reality believe in what could be said to be crazy stuff like.... Christianity. Think about it. They believe in an invisible man living in the sky watching our every move, people rising from the dead, walking on water, spirits impregnating virgins, etc, etc, and so fecking what? does that make them crackpot disinfo agents? Are the church and all who believe in these things nuts too so we mustn't believe anything they say?

6th

I genuinely believe that there are very clever people out there who post from an apparant pro-ct view point but make outlandish claims to the extreme to distract from the more subtle CTs going on.

IrelandSpirit

6th wrote: »

I genuinely believe that there are very clever people out there who post from an apparant pro-ct view point but make outlandish claims to the extreme to distract from the more subtle CTs going on.

Ah, now that's going to the heart of the matter. Yes, I believe these people exist too, and they (the paid dis-info ones) need to be separated from the ones who might genuinely believe similar outlandish claims unwittingly, but might still have good information to offer - albeit not the full picture.

6th

I remember a big UK CT site I used to post on about 6 or 7 years ago. One of the best know guys on there (who posted a mixed bag of CTs) turned out to be a guy writing a big psychology thesis. He kept it up for about 10 months and at the end just came out and admitted he made most of it up to see what people did with the info.

mysterious

6th wrote: »

I remember a big UK CT site I used to post on about 6 or 7 years ago. One of the best know guys on there (who posted a mixed bag of CTs) turned out to be a guy writing a big psychology thesis. He kept it up for about 10 months and at the end just came out and admitted he made most of it up to see what people did with the info.

That makes him a dis info agents, thats what dis info agents DO.

You will also find a soem whistleblowers who get info from black ops and then go on C2C to announce the world through the C.Ts and let the C.Ts make al the claims by informing the people. Only to realise later the black ops and agent, made it a hoax.

So when the public find out, thats its another hoax, it makes the real turth less believable.

This happened when David Wilcock was called by many agents and people who work high in government who were telling disclosure was imminent at the end of the year. If it were the case, wouldn't these agents not tell people themselves. No they want the truth to get out the back door so nobody hears it at the front door.


Glad you raised the poitn at how people play and this is how they do it. It's another tactic to try and silence a C.Ter. But if a C.T is aware and on the ball, he shall hit the truth and deception no problem.