Ps3....

Luap

I bought a ps3 for 500E this time in 2007, it broke a couple of days ago I rang up Sony about it and they said that I have to pay them 160E to get it fixed I'm fuming about this, that I have paid 500E for something that only lasted 2 years :eek: Is there any way not paying 160E for something that is entirely their fault, would the small claims court be a good options to go? Need some advice people

Thanks
Mal

gizmo

Not really, the warranty on these consoles is usually for one year however after that it's up to you to repair it. You may have seen the furore over the issues with the XBox 360 which caused Microsoft to extend their warranty to three years for the most common problem with the console. Unfortunately Sony does not have such a policy (nor as high a failure rate) therefore you're on your own.

Your options as I understand are:
1) Send it back to Sony to be repaired and fork over €160.
2) Send it to the consolerepairs.ie guys who should be able to do it for cheaper.

You should be able to get more info on this over in the Playstation forum in Games.

Pacing Mule

2 things

1 - Do not under any circumstances give your console to **** - it's consolerepairs.ie with an S who can be trusted.

2 - That aside you do not need to give them to any repair agent for you to pay. Bring it back to the shop you bought it from. Assuming you have a receipt under EU law electrical goods are expected to last a minimum of two years ( actually Irish law provides for six years ) regardless of the manufacturers warranty. Explain to the store very nicely and politely that you are within your rights to bring the faulty console back to them, that you don't want to deal with Sony as it is them whom you have the contract of sale with. If they insist there is nothing they can do inform them verbally that you will take the case to the small claims court, follow it up in writing. You will get your console replaced or repaired for free be it by the retailers choice or by the direction of the small claims court. You are 100% guaranteed entitled to it as long as you have proof of purchase and the fault is not by user misuse.

Kensington

+1 to Pageant Messiah's post

Formally request the shop to repair/replace (normally they will replace the console with a factory refurb unit from sony, not an immediate replacement mind you). If they refuse, then inform they you'll initiate small claims court proceedings against them if they don't back down. If they still don't budge, then lodge a case with the SCC. It's only €15 and you can apply online.

BTW what exactly is the fault?
Stopped recognising blu-ray discs?
Powers up but the power light goes yellow after a few seconds?

MadMickeyMonk

If your getting that yellow ring you can fix it yourself. Its a similar problem with the x box360 (cooling issues... the PS3 have cheap fans in the back that arent up to scratch and the 360`s have no cooling on the underside of the motherboard). Nevermind that tripe spouted by sony.. if you live in the us they know there are issues with the early models and give you a bag and box to put them in and have upc pick up free of charge and actually give you a replacement while you wait for yours to be returned. No such offer on offer here! Oh and it has been noted that the problems with both consoles start to happen between 14 and 20 months after purchase.

Absolam

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

2 things
That aside you do not need to give them to any repair agent for you to pay. Bring it back to the shop you bought it from. Assuming you have a receipt under EU law electrical goods are expected to last a minimum of two years ( actually Irish law provides for six years ) regardless of the manufacturers warranty. Explain to the store very nicely and politely that you are within your rights to bring the faulty console back to them, that you don't want to deal with Sony as it is them whom you have the contract of sale with. If they insist there is nothing they can do inform them verbally that you will take the case to the small claims court, follow it up in writing. You will get your console replaced or repaired for free be it by the retailers choice or by the direction of the small claims court. You are 100% guaranteed entitled to it as long as you have proof of purchase and the fault is not by user misuse.

Actually, to be more specific, under Irish law you have up to 6 years to claim a product was faulty at the time of purchase. The Sales of Goods Act provides for a warranty of 'a reasonable period', which is generally accepted to be one year. The contract is with the retailer, but if the retailer says one year, the small claims court will not neccasarily direct repair, replacement, or refund without a charge to the consumer; you take your chances and they're nothing like 100%, especially if the retailer/manufacturer has already offered a full or part remedy.

NeVeR

I worked in Pioneer in Ireland for 6 years. We handled all the Import, distribution and repairs of all Pioneer Items in Ireland. Pioneer gave a 1 year warranty on all products including Plasma’s and LCD’s costing thousands. Also very high end in car audio, we offered extended warrantees on the plasma/LCD’s only because other companies where doing it.
But if your product went faulty after 1 year – 14 months we would not give it as a free repair or replacement. Warranty’s are there for a reason. You know this when buying the product.
I’m not saying I agree with it. But that’s why they are there, we had some cases where people went down the small’s claims court route and we won every time.

You might get the shop owner to replace it at there own cost. But I dont think Sony will back down.

Pacing Mule

Absolam wrote: »

Actually, to be more specific, under Irish law you have up to 6 years to claim a product was faulty at the time of purchase. The Sales of Goods Act provides for a warranty of 'a reasonable period', which is generally accepted to be one year. The contract is with the retailer, but if the retailer says one year, the small claims court will not neccasarily direct repair, replacement, or refund without a charge to the consumer; you take your chances and they're nothing like 100%, especially if the retailer/manufacturer has already offered a full or part remedy.

Is it not the case that EU law has directed that the reasonable period for electrical items is two years ?

Kensington

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Is it not the case that EU law has directed that the reasonable period for electrical items is two years ?

Seemingly this was never adopted into law by the Republic of Ireland, as our laws offer more protection to the consumer than the EU directive does (up to 6 years vs EU 2 years).

Gummy Panda

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Is it not the case that EU law has directed that the reasonable period for electrical items is two years ?

I don't think it gives a reasonable period of two years but a limitation of two years.

Kensington

NeVeR wrote: »

I worked in Pioneer in Ireland for 6 years. We handled all the Import, distribution and repairs of all Pioneer Items in Ireland. Pioneer gave a 1 year warranty on all products including Plasma’s and LCD’s costing thousands. Also very high end in car audio, we offered extended warrantees on the plasma/LCD’s only because other companies where doing it.
But if your product went faulty after 1 year – 14 months we would not give it as a free repair or replacement. Warranty’s are there for a reason. You know this when buying the product.
I’m not saying I agree with it. But that’s why they are there, we had some cases where people went down the small’s claims court route and we won every time.

You might get the shop owner to replace it at there own cost. But I dont think Sony will back down.

A warranty is in addition to your consumer rights but it does not replace or override them in any way. The law gives a consumer the opportunity to argue a product that can be deemed as being of merchantable quality and fit for purpose should last a reasonable length of time. Doesn't surprise me that Pioneer kit, other than car audio, is very rare in most electrical stores if pioneer refused to honour out-of-warranty items with retailers .

You can bet the large electrical chains don't bear the loss of out-of-warranty product repairs or replacements.

Absolam

Kensington wrote: »

A warranty is in addition to your consumer rights but it does not replace or override them in any way. The law gives a consumer the opportunity to argue a product that can be deemed as being of merchantable quality and fit for purpose should last a reasonable length of time. Doesn't surprise me that Pioneer kit, other than car audio, is very rare in most electrical stores if pioneer refused to honour out-of-warranty items with retailers .

You can bet the large electrical chains don't bear the loss of out-of-warranty product repairs or replacements.

Some warranties are in addition to consumer rights i.e. those that can be purchased to cover accidental damage. However the 'warranty' offered by most retailers on most goods is in fact what is required by consumer legislation; the goods are warranted to have been sold in conformity with the law. From manufacturer to distributer to retailer to consumer the warranty remains the same because no one will bear the cost of an additional warranty. So that's why large electrical chains don't take back out of warranty goods - because they won't get their money back. If the manufacturer offers 2 years or 6 years then everyone down the chain will do the same. The EU directive which was not wholly implemented in Ireland has confused many people (not least Dermot Jewell!) but was designed to harmonise EU consumer legislation; not to extend the period of warranty but to allow consumers time to discover an report a fault which existed at the time of purchase.

Luap

Thanks for the replies lads, what would ye all do in my situation?

Xterminator

well if you go the route of the small claims court you will be at worst €15 euros out of pocket, but may save €100's.

so its worth a shot.

As explained above, go back to the point of purchase, and politely ask them to repair/replace/refund at their discretion .

If they refuse write a registered letter to them explaining you feel the item should last 2 years , and that the early models were know to be faulty, poorly ventilated etc.

Tell them in the letter they have 14 days to respond. After 14 days initiate the claim with small claims court.Turn up on the date with proof of purchase, registered letter, and evidence of faulty ps3's (from the web). if they dont bother showing up, your likely to win, and that happens more often than not.

whiterebel

I'm absolutely with Pageant Messiah on this. My 60GB packed up 14 months after purchase. I rang Sony prepared for battle and they gave me a refurb one no problem. Sent off to Dublin, returned refurb (It looked brand new) within 2 days of receipt in the Dublin warehouse. I was fully prepared to go to the Small calims court if necessary, and I believe everyone should.

Go to the playsyation forum and look up blu-ray of death thread - there is one with a poll on it. Go to court and show that from a small cross section of 200+ voters, over 27% of the PS3s have failed. No matter how scientific it is, a judge would surely see that it isn't on to sp[end that money on a product and expect it to fail.

I would also throw in the fact the YLOD has been mention on watchdog on the BBC.
Third, I would mention that Sony have a Logistics company set up in Dublin to handle PS3 returns and replacements since about 12 months after the PS3 was launched here. Why? I don't know of any other manufacturer that has this system in place, including Microsoft and Apple. it seems to me they were expecting a big volume of failures.

I don't for one minute swallow Sony's 2-3% failure rate - Microsoft said exactly the same just before the true figures of 30%+ came out for the XBox.

whiterebel

Absolam wrote: »

Some warranties are in addition to consumer rights i.e. those that can be purchased to cover accidental damage. However the 'warranty' offered by most retailers on most goods is in fact what is required by consumer legislation; the goods are warranted to have been sold in conformity with the law. From manufacturer to distributer to retailer to consumer the warranty remains the same because no one will bear the cost of an additional warranty. So that's why large electrical chains don't take back out of warranty goods - because they won't get their money back. If the manufacturer offers 2 years or 6 years then everyone down the chain will do the same. The EU directive which was not wholly implemented in Ireland has confused many people (not least Dermot Jewell!) but was designed to harmonise EU consumer legislation; not to extend the period of warranty but to allow consumers time to discover an report a fault which existed at the time of purchase.

Are you suggesting that if products fail, that no-one will pick up the bill at the end? No way. I know from working in Apple that if they had machine suffering Graphics Card or Hard Drive failures, Apple picked up and replaced or had it replaced at a repair centre but the manufacturer picked up the bill. Quite simple - If they didn't, their product wouldn't be used again.
Same in this instance, if Smyths or Game got stuck with loads of PS3s, do you think they would stock them? They would in their backside........

Kensington

Absolam wrote: »

So that's why large electrical chains don't take back out of warranty goods - because they won't get their money back. If the manufacturer offers 2 years or 6 years then everyone down the chain will do the same.

Retailers take back products when forced to by the Small Claims Court. It does not come out of the retailers bottom line. The manufacturer foots the bill out of the knowledge that a loss from a few dud units would be small change compared to the loss they'd incur when the retailer tells them to feck off with future orders.

As for what I'd do OP? Exactly as Xterminator advises.
Official letter of complaint stating timeframefor resolution
If no resolution, then lodge a case with the SCC. It's only €15 and you can do it online within minutes.

In the vast majority of cases, if it does go to SCC, it won't make an actual hearing as the retailer usually backs down when served with notice from the SCC.

Absolam

I' saying that if a product fails, and the retailer takes it back without them having a warranty from their supplier, yes of course they foot the bill. Agreements between retailers and distributors/manufacturers clearly lay out the terms under which the retailer can return goods for credit, including warranty periods, and if a retailer trys to return goods outside the terms of the agreement, then they get nothing. GAME & Smyths don't get stuck with a load of PS3s; because they don't take them back outside of the terms under which they can get credit for them.

It's also true that the Small Claims Court often rules against a retailer simply because they don't turn up. I'd suggest for a retailer this is just a cost/benefit analysis; which is more expensive, the cost of the product under dispute which the retailer will have to pay for if they don't turn up, or the cost of a manager spending the day in court not running the business? Whichever costs less is the option chosen, and that's probably the value of the product. And if the retailer pays up, why would the manufacturer? There's no court judgement against them, and it's outside of their agreement with the retailer. After all, where are Smyths and GameStop going to go to get their PS3s when they tell Sony to 'feck off with future orders'? Nintendo don't do Playstations...

whiterebel

Absolam wrote: »

I' saying that if a product fails, and the retailer takes it back without them having a warranty from their supplier, yes of course they foot the bill. Agreements between retailers and distributors/manufacturers clearly lay out the terms under which the retailer can return goods for credit, including warranty periods, and if a retailer trys to return goods outside the terms of the agreement, then they get nothing. GAME & Smyths don't get stuck with a load of PS3s; because they don't take them back outside of the terms under which they can get credit for them.

It's also true that the Small Claims Court often rules against a retailer simply because they don't turn up. I'd suggest for a retailer this is just a cost/benefit analysis; which is more expensive, the cost of the product under dispute which the retailer will have to pay for if they don't turn up, or the cost of a manager spending the day in court not running the business? Whichever costs less is the option chosen, and that's probably the value of the product. And if the retailer pays up, why would the manufacturer? There's no court judgement against them, and it's outside of their agreement with the retailer. After all, where are Smyths and GameStop going to go to get their PS3s when they tell Sony to 'feck off with future orders'? Nintendo don't do Playstations...

If all the retailers start developing the same problem, nobody will sell them.......If nobody sells them the only one gets hurt is Sony. Just a pity we don't have class action lawsuits here. I would imagine its why Sony replaced faulty units to begin with.

Absolam

True, but if retailers were all acting in concert, well that smacks of cartel and that sort of thing is not popular with the competition authority. Today they want an overall agreement on warranties, but tomorrow they want to fix prices...

Regardless, retail is cutthroat. If one retailer said let's take a stand, in all liklihood all the others would say sure, you first.. then reap the sales as their competitor goes out of business.

The only sensible solution is for the EU to enforce a top down warranty on products via the manufacturers, and I suspect we'll see that happening soon enough. Of course the cost of providing that extra warranty will then get factored into the price of the product...

whiterebel

Absolam wrote: »

True, but if retailers were all acting in concert, well that smacks of cartel and that sort of thing is not popular with the competition authority. Today they want an overall agreement on warranties, but tomorrow they want to fix prices...

Regardless, retail is cutthroat. If one retailer said let's take a stand, in all liklihood all the others would say sure, you first.. then reap the sales as their competitor goes out of business.

The only sensible solution is for the EU to enforce a top down warranty on products via the manufacturers, and I suspect we'll see that happening soon enough. Of course the cost of providing that extra warranty will then get factored into the price of the product...

I doubt anyone would have a problem if they stopped selling product that is apparently faulty, its a bit different from them ganging up to keep prices high. They don't even need agreement, just implement it themselves. Plus which shop is going to be left with the problems if everyone else stops selling PS3s? The EU seems to have implemented a 2 year warranty, but we, in ouur wisdom, have decided against it.