Dole cut for under-23's likely

ntlbell

BlueLepreachaun wrote: »

Univerity and IT students aren't paid €200+ a week to do it, and a degree is more useful in most fields than a cert, no matter what it's in, you can learn how to install a HDD drive in a few minutes, the theory takes far longer to grasp.

What has the fact their paid to do it?

I would prefer my taxes paid for someone to learn a skill than to sit at home watching jeramy kyle?

as I said most degree's are not worth a toss. once you enter the "real" world you end up using very little if anything of what you actually learned.

the skills you learn and thought while working is what makes you valuable.

the fact you read a book and answered a few questions on it is not very valuable you proved you could do that the day you did your junior cert.

christ.

irish_bob

Taxipete29 wrote: »

The old age pension too generous?? Are you for real, try living on it.

free electricity , free phone , free travel , fuel allowance , living alone allowance if your a widow or a widower , medica card , add to this a 232 weekly cheque and it adds up to a pretty generous package , more than double the uk rate and considering pensioners are the lest indebted social group with a more or less predictable week to week expense sheet , they do very well

nesf

BlueLepreachaun wrote: »

(BUZZ) Wrong answer!
The money were borrowing every week is for, among other things, dole payments since social welfare is the biggest proportion of our budget right now and its the exploding numbers of unemployed creating the fiscal emergency to begin with (combined with a collapse in tax revenue from VAT..which they're makign worse with constant talk of cuts..and property taxes).

Yeah and your point was that we could spend money on banks and not on stimulus and I gave you an answer. As is we're only getting money for current spending with the agreement that we'll reduce Government spending.

gaeilgegrinds

Jobs or training programmes for under 25s or no dole, should get rid of some of the long-term on the dole. Many see it as a lifestyle. I also welcome a type of dole that takes into account those who worked hard in the past.

rushnaldo

I get 204 euro a week. I live at home and pay nothing for rent or food. I drink 100 euro on saturday night and the rest on super sundays... great country

brendansmith

rushnaldo wrote: »

I get 204 euro a week. I live at home and pay nothing for rent or food. I drink 100 euro on saturday night and the rest on super sundays... great country

Mocking is catching. Lets hope it lasts forever ay?

Wagon

reverandkenjami wrote: »

It should be :mad:

Thankfully i'm still in employment at the moment but if i get let go, why after paying tax for 6 years should i get less than a guy who's a year older than me and never worked a day in his life!

Means test ftw!

Yeah i agree with you. I mean if someone is getting the whole 204 euro it means they worked up enough stamps in the first place to get it! so its hardly the case that people who are young and on the dole are lazy.

anyone over the age of 23 wont care and say its a good idea becuase they arent being effected by it. i dont mind taking a 20% reduction myself if it means that its the only reduction we'll be expected to take. if the government change their minds in the future and decide a 50% cut for the under 23s is the only option rather than taking a small amount from everyone, then ill be pissed off. I mean if you have enough stamps, you're entitled to your dole! thats what its there for!

Viktor

ntlbell wrote: »

What has the fact their paid to do it?

I would prefer my taxes paid for someone to learn a skill than to sit at home watching jeramy kyle?

as I said most degree's are not worth a toss. once you enter the "real" world you end up using very little if anything of what you actually learned.

the skills you learn and thought while working is what makes you valuable.

the fact you read a book and answered a few questions on it is not very valuable you proved you could do that the day you did your junior cert.

christ.

I agree that degrees are useless, I had 2, could never get a job(Self Employed now), but FAS courses are a million time more useless too. They're unbelievably beginner level stuff, With a degree in computer science and in software development they wanted me to do a course in basic html, just to fill up their numbers to get more money from the government. These bureaucratic agencies piss away a hundred times more money than the small number of NEETs, and are exactly what we DONT need right now.

EnigmasWhisper

irish_bob wrote: »

while the old age pension should be cut too as its far too generous when you add on the other perks , i dont blame any goverment for excluding this most important voter demographic , some sacred cows cannot be ignored

Are you having a laugh ? Its the lowest in Europe...you try living on it. I genuinely believe people get ridiculous here just to seek attention and merely seem controversial

rushnaldo

Still not sure why people are giving FAS such a hard time. They're a great bunch, especially now. I did two courses with them this year so far (as I've already said) and on both courses there were guys in their 40s and 50s who were formerly builders (or associated with building in some form or another) so they were obviously happy to go out and learn something else.


Although my opinion is obviously going to be fairly Biased, as I'm currently relying on FAS to learn some stuff.

The reason I do not have a Leaving Cert is because I can't justify spending two years of my life learning about Geography, Spanish, Chemistry or any of that other stuff that I will have absolutely no use for in my real life.


Though in saying that, I have considered doing it just to get it out of the way, so i can try my hand at proper learning afterward.

rushnaldo wrote: »

I get 204 euro a week. I live at home and pay nothing for rent or food. I drink 100 euro on saturday night and the rest on super sundays... great country

Well in fairness, everything is great if you're gonna leech off other people the whole time. Pay nothing towards rent or food? And you don't feel a bit crap about not paying anything toward that?

Unless your parents are worth a fortune (which I doubt, if you're entitled to Dole) then you're an incredibly selfish person.


Fair enough, I realise that in the "current economic climate", it's a case of, as Del Boy once said, "Pull the ladder up Jack, and sod the rest", but i think you should be trying to help your parents out nonetheless!

The_Honeybadger

rushnaldo wrote: »

I get 204 euro a week. I live at home and pay nothing for rent or food. I drink 100 euro on saturday night and the rest on super sundays... great country

I presume you are posting this for a laugh but I actually know people in this position who saved their dole to go travelling. Stay at home with mom and dad maybe work a few nixers if possible and off to Thailand or Oz once they've enough in the bank. Of course it'd be very hard to cut this out as it is impossible to know who needs it or not but what a good use for public money!

Niall Keane

Isn’t this just to incentivise / kick start mass emigration?

Of course for those that stay and are willing to work for less and be more productive, it will mean older family guys being replaced by them? Emigration solves the dole problem and a young wage slave workforce the competitive problems. This only effects under 23’s? Wake up people! Remember what happened in France a few years ago and the public reaction? See the French can see around corners, they’re just not as myopic as dumb Irish peasants!

Pedro K

What a joke. I was reading this in the paper today.

Why under 23s? There are plenty of people out there over this age who've not paid half as much stamps as I (or many other people under the age of 23) have.

This government are just screwing the younger generation.

:mad:

God damnit. I'm too angry to even read this whole thread or string together a coherent post. I'm pissed off right now.

The_Honeybadger

Pedro K wrote: »

What a joke. I was reading this in the paper today.

Why under 23s? There are plenty of people out there over this age who've not paid half as much stamps as I (or many other people under the age of 23) have.

This government are just screwing the younger generation.

:mad:

God damnit. I'm too angry to even read this whole thread or string together a coherent post. I'm pissed off right now.

It is because statistically you are less likely to vote in the next GE.

Pedro K

mickeyk wrote: »

It is because statistically you are less likely to vote in the next GE.

Aye. It seems increasingly likely that this is the case.

Taxipete29

irish_bob wrote: »

free electricity , free phone , free travel , fuel allowance , living alone allowance if your a widow or a widower , medica card , add to this a 232 weekly cheque and it adds up to a pretty generous package , more than double the uk rate and considering pensioners are the lest indebted social group with a more or less predictable week to week expense sheet , they do very well

Why do insist on constantly quoting UK figures for comparison. We dont live in the UK and have a very different cost base so the figures are not comparable.

Its not about sacred cows or the fact they vote in larger numbers than other demographics, its the fact that most people are concerned for the day they retire and may become reliant on the state. Alot of people also have parents and Grandparents we wouldnt like to see have their benefits reduced. We look after our old people in this country and I hope and pray that this never changes.

Sephiroth_dude

Will this affect people aged 23 and under or only people under the age of 23?

irish_bob

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

Are you having a laugh ? Its the lowest in Europe...you try living on it. I genuinely believe people get ridiculous here just to seek attention and merely seem controversial

lowest in europe @?????????? , go back to sleep

irish_bob

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Why do insist on constantly quoting UK figures for comparison. We dont live in the UK and have a very different cost base so the figures are not comparable.

Its not about sacred cows or the fact they vote in larger numbers than other demographics, its the fact that most people are concerned for the day they retire and may become reliant on the state. Alot of people also have parents and Grandparents we wouldnt like to see have their benefits reduced. We look after our old people in this country and I hope and pray that this never changes.

looking after our elders is fine , spoiling them at the expense of everyone else is not , personally i thinks its disgusting that a retired pensioner with a 699 euro a week pension can visit thier GP for free while a young couple in thier thirties ( mortgaged up to thier necks ) with a few kids have to fork out 50 quid every time they visit the doctor , old peoples budget rarely changes , young peoples budget is always changing

Taxipete29

irish_bob wrote: »

looking after our elders is fine , spoiling them at the expense of everyone else is not , personally i thinks its disgusting that a retired pensioner with a 699 euro a week pension can visit thier GP for free while a young couple in thier thirties ( mortgaged up to thier necks ) with a few kids have to fork out 50 quid every time they visit the doctor , old peoples budget rarely changes , young peoples budget is always changing

How is it at the expense of everyone else?? So we should drive pensioners into poverty so we dont have to raise the tax rates for people who earn huge salaries and can well afford it. Great plan.:rolleyes:

Many of these pensioners have paid larger %s of their former salaries in tax than you or I are ever likely to. They deserve to be taken care of and if you think they are spoiled you can look forward to your retirement safe in the knowledge that you will be well looked after.;)

Daragh101

This is tipical of this government and of a lot of Irish people in general. Lets attack the generations that have nothing to do with any aspect of the crisis....I mean people who made the sencible decision to stay in education, and get their degree now find themselves uable to get a job. These people resisted the temptation to get involved in construction and this is their reward.....a reduced dole payment...
I know a lot of people are more vunrable with mortgage repayments and what not, but at the end of the day they did borrow insane amounts of money which imo was unessicay...
Its so ironic, and so irish that the people who got us into this mess, the government, the bankers, and the big builders still prosper......

(All imo)

starbelgrade

Daragh101 wrote: »

This is tipical of this government and of a lot of Irish people in general. Lets attack the generations that have nothing to do with any aspect of the crisis....I mean people who made the sencible decision to stay in education, and get their degree now find themselves uable to get a job. These people resisted the temptation to get involved in construction and this is their reward.....a reduced dole payment...
I know a lot of people are more vunrable with mortgage repayments and what not, but at the end of the day they did borrow insane amounts of money which imo was unessicay...
Its so ironic, and so irish that the people who got us into this mess, the government, the bankers, and the big builders still prosper......

(All imo)

We got ourselves into this mess, now someone's gotta pay to keep us in at least some modicum of the standards we built for ourselves. You'd hate to see the fattened cow go to waste.

waitingforBB

unfortunate fact of the matter is that social welfare along with public sector pay needs to be corrected.

There is too little disparity between some of those on social welfare and those on low income.

Poverty trap shouldnt be encouraged, and those under 23 should be most definitely discouraged from joining the welfare state

Daragh101

waitingforBB wrote: »

unfortunate fact of the matter is that social welfare along with public sector pay needs to be corrected.

There is too little disparity between some of those on social welfare and those on low income.

Poverty trap shouldnt be encouraged, and those under 23 should be most definitely discouraged from joining the welfare state

Somehow i dont think they have much choice in the matter!!
btw im not 23 or on welfare...im still in secondary education!

The_Honeybadger

waitingforBB wrote: »

unfortunate fact of the matter is that social welfare along with public sector pay needs to be corrected.

There is too little disparity between some of those on social welfare and those on low income.

Poverty trap shouldnt be encouraged, and those under 23 should be most definitely discouraged from joining the welfare state

If they want to reduce payments then they have to make training places available, I think it is more than fair to expect people to upskill when they are unemployed as long as they can get a suitable training place. There is little point putting an IT grad doing an ECDL course for example. You are correct about the little disparity between those on welfare and low incomes, I read somewhere lately that an unemployed couple with two kids can draw down the equivelent of 40k on welfare, not bad in the current jobs market. While I know there is very little most of them can do about their situation, it must be very unattractive to take up a low paid job and lose the freebies. Unfortunately cost of living is so high here that these kind of payments are necessary to live so the cost of everything needs to come down to tackle the problem properly, easier said than done and will require a concerted nation effort and an end to the me feinism that currently prevails.

Idbatterim

After the 4 billion is taken out this year, imagine when interest rates start to rise, how much that will start taking out of the economy! I wonder what every percentage point rise rought totals euro wise? any ideas?

hobochris

My personal take on this idea is if they cut the level of benefit for under 23's they must also cut the PRSI contributions deducted from the pay of under 23's in employment!

Fair is fair.

gar32

Just would like to know if this is not ageisum? Should all people over voting age not be equal in the law and the way they are treated? I am 36 and have a job so I feel lucky these days. If more time and money was spent on using the carrot for people to work. Not the stick which makes people feel bullied. I have worked with no break from 20 years old. It is great and would not have it any other way. People should want to work not be forced. Lets help everyone equally. Life is not fair but lets work towards that please

hobochris

gar32 wrote: »

Just would like to know if this is not ageisum? Should all people over voting age not be equal in the law and the way they are treated? I am 36 and have a job so I feel lucky these days. If more time and money was spent on using the carrot for people to work. Not the stick which makes people feel bullied. I have worked with no break from 20 years old. It is great and would not have it any other way. People should want to work not be forced. Lets help everyone equally. Life is not fair but lets work towards that please

It is Ageism in my book, or lazy decision making at the very least.

What they should be doing is assessing the individual case, as there could a be some 23 year old lad who has worked from the age of 15 all his life falls on hard times who is denied full payment while some 50 year old waster who never worked or contributed a day in his life gets full benefit.

Idbatterim

I have a question! seeing as the dole is about to be cut for the under 23's, because it is assumed they wont have a mortgage, dependants bla bla bla... How about well cut the salaries of all the PS who no longer have dependants or a mortgage and leave the rest of them alone, sounds fair to me! I have no problem with cuts in welfare, but I have an absolute problem with this attack on the easiest target i.e the young, that is about to be perpetrated!