Save the Patton Campaign

Zynks

Victor wrote: »

If you have an issue, press the "report post" button. What is your actual problem?

Should we do this here on through PM?

devnull

Zynks wrote: »

There was a reference earlier to Citylink not being licensed for their Dublin - Galway service. Does anyone know if that is true?

Citylink have a license for Dublin to Galway, but they are missing out certain stops, claiming it is a modification of an existing license, which to me is not as severe as someone operating a service that has no license at all.

In any case, the law is archaic and it's implementation is anti-competitive. I guess we should agree to disagree on this one.

I don't think the law is great and the licensing system helps nobody and is outdated, but why should everyone else have to stick to the rules and one person not?

I am hadn't heard about 'the other one', but thanks for pointing it out. I checked your previous posts and found the few threads were you have posted comments related to Aircoach, including a description of UK services that have on board wifi. Anyhow, if I was aware of those threads this discussion wouldn't have gone into circles, because I would have known better.

What? Because I posted into a topic to help someone out and to add something to the discussion that means I have some conflict of interest? Many of the contributors to this thread also have talked about other public transport operators in the past does that mean they're associated with them? Come on!

Zynks

devnull wrote: »

What? Because I posted into a topic to help someone out and to add something to the discussion that means I have some conflict of interest? Many of the contributors to this thread also have talked about other public transport operators in the past does that mean they're associated with them? Come on!

What about this one?

devnull wrote: »

Dublin Bus I understand have basically violated what the labour court have recommended, so DB are claiming that drivers have accepted these bills, as they voted for the ballot and also the labour court recommended these bills.

However that is only telling part of the story because of the fact is Dublin Bus are being selective with what parts of the Labour Court recommendations they are adhering to, so on one hand they're saying we're just doing what the labour court tells them, but they're only using the aspects they like, whilst not the ones they don't. Very hypocritical if thats the case.

Is there something you want to tell us?

AlekSmart

And your argumentation about breaking the law, yes it seems to be the case, and they are being penalised to the full extent of the law...or €6.25 per day. WOW, that must be a very serious infraction!!!

Funnily enough the nub of this entire little spat is the 1932 Road Transport Act and it`s continued relevance to 21st Century operations.

Suffice to say the 1932 Act is a constant in most Public Transport Operations related threads.

However,IMO the 1932 Road Transport Act has far fewer failings than many of our current administrators point to for cover.

The fine for non-posession of a Route Licence has to be seen in 1932 terms,thus £50 on conviction PLUS £5 per day of operation could be termed significant in the context of the time.

The fact that successive Governments since 1932 have totally failed to pay attention to the minutae of the leglislation is the real scandal as the actual wording of much of the 1932 Act is eminently workable as is. :rolleyes:

Zynks

AlekSmart wrote: »

The fact that successive Governments since 1932 have totally failed to pay attention to the minutae of the leglislation is the real scandal as the actual wording of much of the 1932 Act is eminently workable as is. :rolleyes:

Or maybe this is an unofficial acknowledgment that protecting monopolies and big players through protectionist policies is a game with its days counted.

devnull

Zynks wrote: »

What about this one?

Is there something you want to tell us?

No - just saying what I've heard from various people, but considering I supposedly work for Dublin Bus AND Aircoach, then I must have a conflict of interest in working for two companies who are in competition with each other

Or of course, you could still be being paranoid.

Zynks

devnull wrote: »

What? Because I posted into a topic to help someone out and to add something to the discussion that means I have some conflict of interest? Many of the contributors to this thread also have talked about other public transport operators in the past does that mean they're associated with them? Come on!

What about this then:

You have 30 posts in Commuting and transport. One refers to a bus strike, one to a problem with a bus lane planning and 28 refer to Aircoach.

Then there is what seems to me like indepth knowledge of Aircoach:

devnull wrote: »

Aircoach have already introduced it on their Stansted service in the UK, as well as a similar Heathrow service so I would say it's highly likely to come out here. Having used it myself it's a very good service.

The there is this one:

1) Thats a trolling post - Aleksmart does not work for Aircoach

Then when someone was talking about a proposed new public transport service, you said:

devnull wrote: »

You need to supply this information and the company you represent in the conflict of interest thread

But when I asked for disclosure you called me paranoid

So, in conclusion, I think there is enough to justify my comment that some posts seemed biased, and you stating that there is no conflict of interests is suspicious at least.

Your turn.

Victor

Can people lay off a bit.

Zynks, stop badgering.

Zynks

Victor wrote: »

Can people lay off a bit.

Zynks, stop badgering.

Yeah, sounds good to me. I'm off.

devnull

If I did have an in-depth knowledge I'd be able to answer a lot more of the unanswered questions in this thread. As stated I don't work for anyone connected in the industry - if you don't believe that, it's your choice.

The reason I told Fratton Fred to disclose his, is he openly stated himself that he was involved in a situation where he applied for a transport license on behalf of a body himself.

Aleksmart I said was not connected to Aircoach as he is not, he's a valued psoter of this forum and speaks a lot of sense about a number of transport related matters, I don't see how saying he does not work for them as being a crime?

dub_commuter

Haven't posted in this second topic about the issue to date due to the fact I fear we're simply going around in circles, and discussing what has already been done, but I must say that I, and others such as Aleksmart, KC61, and other valued posters on this forum have been posting about many companies in the industry because we have an interest in them or the fact that we have dealt with them on a commuting or leisure basis, so we are simply commenting on them.

The fact is that just because someone is posting about using a company and information about their services they may see as useful to others, doesn't mean they are involved with that company. I personally use Aircoach services, Citylink services and many other operators, but just because I do doesn't mean I'm infact involved in the company if I choose to talk about my experiences.

I think we need to get back to discussing the topic at hand rather than trying to have a tit for tat war and trying to label people as having conflicts of interest without any proof to back that up.

jpfahy

It's very hard to play by the rules as a small person in this country. Everything is biased towards the big operators in every field here. That's why we don't have any indigenous businesses left. We shop in Tesco and Lidl and all the big UK names and all the profits made go abroad, has nobody copped on that that's why the country is broke?
Trevor had an original idea and ran with it. Original ideas are few and far between in this country lately. Every entrepreneur has to push through rules to get started, from Henry Ford to Steve Jobs they all did it. That's what Trevor did and got no support from the Irish Government. Shame on them.
If he had waited for a licence he'd have never got started.
The profit from the fares you will now pay to Aircoach will go straight out of the country instead of circulating back into the Irish Economy.

rednik

jpfahy wrote: »

It's very hard to play by the rules as a small person in this country. Everything is biased towards the big operators in every field here. That's why we don't have any indigenous businesses left. We shop in Tesco and Lidl and all the big UK names and all the profits made go abroad, has nobody copped on that that's why the country is broke?
Trevor had an original idea and ran with it. Original ideas are few and far between in this country lately. Every entrepreneur has to push through rules to get started, from Henry Ford to Steve Jobs they all did it. That's what Trevor did and got no support from the Irish Government. Shame on them.
If he had waited for a licence he'd have never got started.
The profit from the fares you will now pay to Aircoach will go straight out of the country instead of circulating back into the Irish Economy.

In a nutshell. Well said good sir.

Run_to_da_hills

jpfahy wrote: »

It's very hard to play by the rules as a small person in this country. Everything is biased towards the big operators in every field here. That's why we don't have any indigenous businesses left. We shop in Tesco and Lidl and all the big UK names and all the profits made go abroad, has nobody copped on that that's why the country is broke?
Trevor had an original idea and ran with it. Original ideas are few and far between in this country lately. Every entrepreneur has to push through rules to get started, from Henry Ford to Steve Jobs they all did it. That's what Trevor did and got no support from the Irish Government. Shame on them.
If he had waited for a licence he'd have never got started.
The profit from the fares you will now pay to Aircoach will go straight out of the country instead of circulating back into the Irish Economy.

So I understand now that Aircoach is a foreign owned company. This is a disgrace its a wonder the country's is going down the tubes with so much cash leaving the country in hived off profits.

I also hear that an average of four companies are going bust a day, the likes of this carry on dose not help infant industries.

dub_commuter

I agree, it's a complete disgrace that Aircoach has had to play by the same rules as all of the many other Irish owned companies. We should have a different set of rules that mean that if you are foreign you are given very little help or assistance and turn our country into a two teir country, Irish People vs the Foreigners - or we could just realise it's 2009 and that kind of crap should be left well in the past and everyone should be treated as equal.

As has been stated many times before, Aircoach is NOT getting prefential treatment, the only person demanding that is Mr Patton. Nobody is subject to any different rules whether they are large or small companies, they're all subject to the same rules. If Patton gets preferential treatment, whats to stop the likes of Citylink, JJ Kavanagh, Eirebus, Swords Express, amongst others deciding, well they have been allowed to break the rules so l want action over the fact I had to wait x years for a license so why should they be any different?

Dublin Bus are bigger than any of the companies here, but they've been rejected extensions on routes as they compete with minor operators, but again people seem to discount the facts that do not support their cause and only mention the ones that do. There are no cases of the same type where tbe treatment Patton wants has happened, there are many when the other way around has happened. Once again I ask people why should Patton get different rules to the good, honest legal private operators?

The irony was Patton would have been offered a license quicker had he followed the process correctly and he in January of this year WAS OFFERED A LICENSE which he turned down, which is why it has been offered to someone else, nobody forced him to turn it down, but he did, once again as he didn't like rules regarding his operation that would be put in place, the same rules every operator in the country is putting up with.

Patton wants his own way, his own license, on entirely his own terms with absolutely no compromise. The irony is he is claiming he is being bullied, yet right now he is trying to bully the department into giving him what he wants by doing it anyway in an attempt to force their hand due to the backlash of public support.

J_Dublin15

So I understand now that Aircoach is a foreign owned company. This is a disgrace its a wonder the country's is going down the tubes with so much cash leaving the country in hived off profits.

The irony being that Fianna Fail built the Celtic tiger on investment from multinationals that set up shop in this country.

Just because someone happens to come from an Irish owned company, does not mean they should be allowed to bypass rules

That is the kind of thing I expect from the BNP in England.

Run_to_da_hills

J_Dublin15 wrote: »

The irony being that Fianna Fail built the Celtic tiger on investment from multinationals that set up shop in this country.

And where is it all going now. :rolleyes:

AlekSmart

Jpfahy:The profit from the fares you will now pay to Aircoach will go straight out of the country instead of circulating back into the Irish Economy.

Whilst it may be easy and convienent to paint this negative scenario of First-Aircoach the reality,in modern Europe is otherwise.

First run the Aircoach operation as a stand-alone arm of their business.
Their directly employed staff are recruited locally as are the contractors they utilize.
Their Ground Staff are similarly employed.
They employ engineering cover from Mercedes and Volvo agents in THIS Republic.
The pay full Employers PAYE,PRSI,VAT, and Excise Duties on ALL of their operations.
They also pay ALL of the relevant fee`s associated with securing and holding the various legal licences and permits to operate.

Have we reached the situation where this adherence to a principle of legal operation is somehow to be regarded as backward and undesireable?

It is perhaps worth remembering that the original business model for the Aircoach operation came from a senior Bus Éireann executive whose knowledge of future Bus Éireann plans enabled him to spot the gap in the market which he so efficiently exploited.

My everyday work is in often direct competition to First Aircoach.

This does not entail my having to demonise their staff or to engage in some form of "War" on the road.

Far from it.

I see Aircoach as being nothing but a part of the greater Public Transport picture,offering an added-value luxury express coach service competitively complimenting the Bus Atha Cliath regular stage-carriage service.

If anybody is to go-to-the-wall over this it should be The Minister For Transport and the entire directorate of his Department who have knowingly wasted vast amounts of time and money on shiny new baubles whilst totally failing to modernise the operating environment we are ALL required to operate within

eagle1

This service is the best thing to have happened in Dun laoghaire for years. It is a great well run service. I hear the 'alternative' service is unreliable.

Ham'nd'egger

eagle1 wrote: »

This service is the best thing to have happened in Dun laoghaire for years. It is a great well run service. I hear the 'alternative' service is unreliable.

Correct me if I am wrong here but has the "alternative" service commenced yet or not?

Cookie_Monster

Hamndegger wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong here but has the "alternative" service commenced yet or not?

alternatve for DL would be 746

KC61

Just in relation to this, I think that there needs to be a distinction made here.

The 746 is a regular local bus service. It is not designed to be an express service, but rather a local bus service that connects a fair amount of southeast Dublin to the Airport whilst also carrying local passengers. It is reliable enough, with journey times being in the region of 90 minutes from end to end.

The Patton Flyer, Aircoach and Flybus are limited stop coach services designed to transport people specifically to/from the airport.

There is a market for both types of service.

The bus is handy for those not in a rush and carrying hand luggage, or who don't want to pay a higher fare, while the coach is suited to those with an early morning flight, families, or those carrying heavy luggage

I don't have the luxury of a coach service where I live, but I generally choose flights that depart after 8.15am so that I am in a position to get to the Airport using a combination of my local bus and the 747/748 Airlink service, which I can use a rambler ticket on. Not having children and usually travelling with little luggage I'm able to make that choice.

KC61

eagle1 wrote: »

This service is the best thing to have happened in Dun laoghaire for years. It is a great well run service. I hear the 'alternative' service is unreliable.

Aircoach have not yet commenced their service.

patrickbrophy18

KC61 wrote: »

Aircoach have not yet commenced their service.

According to Mary Hanafin's website, The Aircoach will be half hourly and run for the entire 24 hours of the day. I'm not sure what type of coaches are going to be used though. I heard that the service will be up and running in the next month or so!