Standing up for Teachers.

foxymm

On last Tuesday evening's Six-One RTE News, they interviewed a Secondary school teacher on the picket and she was talking about her work and the extra hours of work the teachers and students were putting into the upcoming school musical. IThink it was Tallaght C.S. she was standing outside. But she said and rightly so "I am sick to death of taking the abuse for working in the public sector". Here, here I say.

Why should we concede as public servants to pay deductions? Why should we give into the govt. changing our contracts and conditions of work. For teachers, this is not only about pay but the govt. want to also force through unacceptable changes to our conditions.

I, like thousands of other teachers studied for at least 4 years in college. I did my H.Dip in Education which cost me €4,000 to do back in 2004/2005. God knows what it costs now to do. I was inspected, examined, assessed before acheiving my First Class honours.

I don't apologise for the pay I get nor moan about the difficulties, at times, of the teaching profession. Some schools are very difficult and tough to work in but most of us get on with it as we love teaching.
Thousands of people walk into their own cushy private sector jobs on a daily basis starring at computer screens (example) until their eyes get sore and then go home. . . .

Teaching is a vocation. Inevitably, when a teacher leaves school on a daily basis, inevitably an evening doesn't go by where they are sitting at home for perhaps hours on end, planning, preparation, and hard work being done for the next day's teaching.

So to all you nay-sayers out there, don't lecture us teachers about our work, about our pay about our conditions, about our diligence and about our rights.

If you want to continue to moan on about our great holidays and our wonderful pay then send off you're completed H.Dip in Ed application form and enclose with it transcipts of your (preferably honours) degree parchment as well as other qualifications etc. yu may have and send it to the C.A.O. post-graduate applications centre in Galway by Dec 1st (i.e. tomorrow and wait to see if you get an offer next April. Simple as.;)

kangaroo

foxymm wrote: »

If you want to continue to moan on about our great holidays and our wonderful pay then send off you're completed H.Dip in Ed application form and enclose with it transcipts of your (preferably honours) degree parchment as well as other qualifications etc. yu may have and send it to the C.A.O. post-graduate applications centre in Galway by Dec 1st (i.e. tomorrow and wait to see if you get an offer next April. Simple as.;)

By the same logic, it would appear no one should complain about politicians' pay and their allowances, consultants' pay, etc.

thebman

lol spending all day looking at a computer screen. I do look at the screen but then its my job to look at it as I work on a computer all day.

If she thinks thats cushy she can do that same as she recommended to other people complaining about teachers. I only wish teachers would have spent an hour looking at a computer screen to teach kids about it but most don't seem to be able to turn it on even with first class honors degrees.

Says a lot about our education system :pac:

But to answer the question, why should they accept cuts. Simple, their employer can't afford to pay them. Technically they shouldn't have a job at all if normal rules applied as the government is 20 billion in debt (yeah yeah the goverment isn't a company, it still has to balance its books FFS, you can't borrow forever haven't you found that out yet?).

jetfiremuck

Teachers salary is reflected in the 9months or so of employment. That said the teaching profession attracts a certain type of individual that places more importance on the time off, school hours etc. as the reason for joining it. Same goes for those that get excellent leaving cert results and get the places with the highest points required... and not realizing that the degree they are after may not be what they really wanted but the course requirement created the demand . Just watch the demand for places in civil engineering and the like in the coming years

kangaroo

foxymm wrote: »

I, like thousands of other teachers studied for at least 4 years in college. I did my H.Dip in Education which cost me €4,000 to do back in 2004/2005. God knows what it costs now to do. I was inspected, examined, assessed before acheiving my First Class honours.

Congratulations on your First Class honours in your H.Dip. Have you any idea what percentage got 1st class honours in your year? And also other grades?

As I recall, some masters are 1st, 11.1 and pass - what grades are possible with a H.Dip?

Dannyboy83

Oh God, please no, not another one of these threads.

We had one here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055738964

Its actually the most viewed thread in the forum, with about 20,000 hits despite only being a few weeks old.
If Boards.ie had charged people a few bob for viewing it, they could plugged one of the many holes in the economy

I recommend this one too:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055750520

K4t

jetfiremuck wrote: »

the teaching profession attracts a certain type of individual that places more importance on the time off, school hours etc. as the reason for joining it.

Yet more generalisation that we have become so accusotmed to in this dog's dinner of a forum.:rolleyes: Some teachers fit the criteria you stated but most teachers are there becuase they love the job. They have an interest in a subject and a desire to teach that subject. You can't label every teacher as only being in it for the holidays. Although, you could say without doubt that in many sectors, workers are only in it for the money and the excessive bonuses, but I won't go into that as it's unpopular in these parts.....

thebman wrote: »

I only wish teachers would have spent an hour looking at a computer screen to teach kids about it but most don't seem to be able to turn it on even with first class honors degrees.

Says a lot about our education system :pac:
.

Did I mention generalisation already? Or are you showing off your wit?:rolleyes:

The public sector bashing posts in this forum are quite pathetic really. the question should really be how the f**k did you get on the internet, to be honest.

Darragh29

foxymm wrote: »

On last Tuesday evening's Six-One RTE News, they interviewed a Secondary school teacher on the picket and she was talking about her work and the extra hours of work the teachers and students were putting into the upcoming school musical. IThink it was Tallaght C.S. she was standing outside. But she said and rightly so "I am sick to death of taking the abuse for working in the public sector". Here, here I say.

Why should we concede as public servants to pay deductions? Why should we give into the govt. changing our contracts and conditions of work. For teachers, this is not only about pay but the govt. want to also force through unacceptable changes to our conditions.

I, like thousands of other teachers studied for at least 4 years in college. I did my H.Dip in Education which cost me €4,000 to do back in 2004/2005. God knows what it costs now to do. I was inspected, examined, assessed before acheiving my First Class honours.

I don't apologise for the pay I get nor moan about the difficulties, at times, of the teaching profession. Some schools are very difficult and tough to work in but most of us get on with it as we love teaching.
Thousands of people walk into their own cushy private sector jobs on a daily basis starring at computer screens (example) until their eyes get sore and then go home. . . .

Teaching is a vocation. Inevitably, when a teacher leaves school on a daily basis, inevitably an evening doesn't go by where they are sitting at home for perhaps hours on end, planning, preparation, and hard work being done for the next day's teaching.

So to all you nay-sayers out there, don't lecture us teachers about our work, about our pay about our conditions, about our diligence and about our rights.

If you want to continue to moan on about our great holidays and our wonderful pay then send off you're completed H.Dip in Ed application form and enclose with it transcipts of your (preferably honours) degree parchment as well as other qualifications etc. yu may have and send it to the C.A.O. post-graduate applications centre in Galway by Dec 1st (i.e. tomorrow and wait to see if you get an offer next April. Simple as.;)

Do you think you are the only people on the planet who have a 4 year degree and a post grad qualification??? There is no shortage of people down at Hatch 45 with B. Sc's, B. Eng's, H. Dips, M. Sc's and all sorts of hard earned qualifactions, maybe you should swap places with them for a week or two to see how overpaid and underworked you actually are.

Of all the public sector workers who I think should have a saddle put on them come budget day, teachers are at the top of the list. Your opening post says it all, it reaks of entitlement on the basis of nothing other than having the qualification. That's the way teachers view their working life, once you get the permanent post on the basis of having the precious qualification, then you are:

(1) Untouchable in terms of tenure.

(2) Unaccountable for any results whatsoever.

I personally hope that the government give all you guys a 20% pay increase come this budget, then we can look forward to the IMF coming in nest Easter and dealing with you properly for once and for all.

creeper1

I think I feel sorry most for the graduate teachers that are about to enter the job market. THese guys really are going to struggle to get a job and it's not at all their fault.

No way will there be enough money in the pot for new teachers to get a start. I see existing teachers keeping their salaries maybe with a compromise of an increase in class sizes. If I was a graduate teacher I'd be really pissed with these existing teachers.

I once heard a teacher say teachers shouldn't strike because they are like a doctor and have a duty of care. I think this guy had big time dellusions of grandeur. I myself regard teachers as little more than glorified babysitters.

As far as importance goes let me bring the OP down to earth (I'm just in awe at his 4 year degree:rolleyes:) with a very popular saying.

Those that can - DO. Those that can't - TEACH.

frman

foxymm wrote: »

Why should we concede as public servants to pay deductions?

Because the Government don't have the money to pay you ?

It is quite simple really.

Surely as a teacher you have come up against difficult mathematical problems such as this.......

Little Johnny usually gets 3 apples for his lunch. Today, his mother only has 2 apples. How many apples do you think little Johnny is going to get today ?

Johnny will kick and scream. however, the simple fact remains that he will not be getting 3 apples.

Slugs

Of all the public sector workers who I think should have a saddle put on them come budget day, teachers are at the top of the list. Your opening post says it all, it reaks of entitlement on the basis of nothing other than having the qualification. That's the way teachers view their working life, once you get the permanent post on the basis of having the precious qualification, then you are:

(1) Untouchable in terms of tenure.

(2) Unaccountable for any results whatsoever.

I personally hope that the government give all you guys a 20% pay increase come this budget, then we can look forward to the IMF coming in nest Easter and dealing with you properly for once and for all.

Well realistically, they're accountable. If their students fail their LC and JC, are they accountable? If a student is abused or attacked and they fail to act, are they accountable? Although I agree with your opinion of the OP, I still think people are being a little too hard on teachers. Despite what you like to harp on about, if your going into teaching for the 3 months holidays, for those other 9 months, you're seriously in trouble. Teaching really is a vocation, it takes a lot of commitment, and involves handing over a decent amount of your spare time. After all, when would they correct homework? When would they organise tests, study notes and field trips. During 9-4 is it? AS well as that, many teachers are also striking against the education cutbacks, and rightly so. Very little consideration was taken when making these cutbacks. Two things should NEVER be touched unless absolutely necessary. Health and Education, and if they government continue to hit these two sectors, if we ever get out of this recession (which I doubt) We're going to have a severly lacking working sector.

And in relation to your comment on the IMF coming in, I don't think you fully understand the consequences of their takeover. IF they come in, say goodbye to what you know of Ireland today. I suggest you look into the IMF in a little more detail.

efb

If Teachers accepted to one less month's leave and accounability in their work I'd say leave them be...

But until then...Ride Sally (Brian) Ride...

PS: asked my boss for my honours degree suppliment...we both laughed!

Those that can do, those that can't 'claim' to teach!

frman

efb wrote: »

If Teachers accepted to one less month's leave and accounability in their work I'd say leave them be...

Once again, we need to grasp what the real problem is here.

We don't have the money.

If we got teachers to accept one months less leave and make them more accountable, how does that solve our country's money problems ?

efb

Do you think they'd accept that?
It was a rhetorical statement

Slugs

It wouldn't, but it'd make those who feel that teachers are overpaid and underworked feel better.

Slugs

efb wrote: »

Do you think they'd accept that?
It was a rhetorical statement

would you accept keeping your child in school for another month?

so for primary that'd be up til august, and secondary, til july.

efb

Yep, (if I had children) save on crèche fees!

efb

And August 1 would be return to school day (unless it was a Monday)

Slugs

Glad I didn't have you for a parent so.

efb

Glad I don't have you as a child (but that impudence would be beaten outof you)

Slugs

lol, we'd see :P

efb

Well as a person who goes to work at 6 and home at 8 I don't reckon children are a sensible choice atm

Slugs

I won't be having kids full stop. I've made that decision, despite all this "bah you're young, you'll soon change" bs that people love to try and shove down my throat. Screw em. any maybe we should get back on topic

efb

I think Children ( and sensible choice making) are integral parts of this topic...

Slugs

How so, I mean what we're refering to here is the effect the budget and cutback will have on the teachers (and more importantly, the education system).I don't see how a discussion on having children and what it means to have them would be an integral part of this discussion

efb

Children are key to the discussion there are the reasôn d'être for the Education System, not teachers,
and you brought having them into the discussion.
Also choice making is key as we have very limited choices now as a nation, and we the nation as a parent, has to tell the spoilt child that is the PS, mammy and daddy can't spoil them like they used to, Santa (Brian Lenihan) doesn't
have as much this year are there are all the children to consider...

Slugs

The real thing though is, are the government making the right choices? no. Obviously not, and the sooner this government is taken out, the better we'll all be.

efb

They are trying, but are being stonewalled by PS unions. The bad choices, like blanket benchmarking were made before now. Will FG and Lab make these hard choices, or do you think Lab's cosy relationship with the PS Unions protect you (them)?

If the Gov reduce the PS wage bill in Budget 10, I'd say they are now making the right choices.

Slugs

And while the PS are being hit, where're the banks being hit? Just the other week, we had a person whinging because he was being paid over 500k? that 500k could easily be used to pay for an extra 10 doctors for example (guesstimate). Quite obviously, the people who could take the load aren't obviously being handed enough bags to carry. anyway I'm off, see ya in a few hours and we'll resume where we left off

efb

Do you know the T&Cs of the Gov recapitalization scheme or NAMA, I'd give them a read, it's not a free ride like Bertie's free ride benchmarking...

Also for a person that likes things on topic, you bring it off on a lot of tagents... Maths Teacher? Or Drawing maybe...

efb

50K wouldn't pay for a nurse let alone a Doctor...