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Standing up for Teachers.
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Perhaps you should educate him. Teachers in Ireland are one of the highest paid in the world so it is easy to make the argument they are overpaid. They did get days off due to the snow. They do only work about half the year (365 divided by 2 = 183 days), peramnent teachers have full job security and to fund their pension payments in private sector you would need a huge sum of money (way more than would be earned if teachers put their contributions into any private pension scheme). Where does he need to be informed?
Perhaps I should. He needs to learn more about primary teaching, as do you.
He made no reference to permanent teachers, he just said 'they' havefull job security
This is clearly not the case for many teachers in Ireland. So he is wrong on that score. He needs to be informed that not all teachers are permanent, and not all teachers even have work.
On the pay issue, teachers in Ireland are paid more than teachers in many countries because
1) They have larger classes - Only Chile, Korea, Japan, Israel, Turkey and Brazil have larger class sizes.
The following is a list of countries where class sizes are smaller than in Ireland
Australia
United States
France
Germany
Spain
Belgium (Fr.)
Hungary
Czech Republic
Austria
Mexico
Finland
Portugal
Slovak Republic
Poland
Denmark
Switzerland
Estonia
Italy
Iceland
Slovenia
Greece
Luxembourg
Russian Federation
2) They spend more time teaching than teachers in other countries.
As you can see, New Zealand and Israel are the only countries where primary teachers teach longer.
So if Irish primary teachers teach more children for more time than teachers in other countries, how exactly are they overpaid?
They're actually pretty efficient.
Primary teachers in Ireland teach 37 weeks of the year. The EU and OECD average is 38. So Ireland is a week behind. But that is explained by looking at the hours that teachers teach. The EU and OECD average is 794 and 798 respectively. In Ireland it is 946.
His post was based on nothing. If you think he is informed, then you need to do some more research.
Have a look at the OECD report on education for 2009. You'll even learn that Irish teachers are not the highest paid in the world.0 -
Perhaps I should. He needs to learn more about primary teaching, as do you.
He made no reference to permanent teachers, he just said 'they' have
This is clearly not the case for many teachers in Ireland. So he is wrong on that score. He needs to be informed that not all teachers are permanent, and not all teachers even have work.
So what % of teachers working in Ireland are permanent?On the pay issue, teachers in Ireland are paid more than teachers in many countries because
1) They have larger classes - Only Chile, Korea, Japan, Israel, Turkey and Brazil have larger class sizes.
And seeing as they have larger class sizes and work longer hours are they paid more than Irish teachers?
2) They spend more time teaching than teachers in other countries.
As you can see, New Zealand and Israel are the only countries where primary teachers teach longer.
So if Irish primary teachers teach more children for more time than teachers in other countries, how exactly are they overpaid?
They're actually pretty efficient.
Primary teachers in Ireland teach 37 weeks of the year. The EU and OECD average is 38. So Ireland is a week behind. But that is explained by looking at the hours that teachers teach. The EU and OECD average is 794 and 798 respectively. In Ireland it is 946.
His post was based on nothing. If you think he is informed, then you need to do some more research.
Have a look at the OECD report on education for 2009. You'll even learn that Irish teachers are not the highest paid in the world.
Based on your figures (which I would seriously question) I think you will agree that secondary teachers then are overpaid as based on those graphs they work less than most other countries.0 -
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No. That is wrong. None of them get paid more than Irish primary school teachers. But nice try.
Just because you say something, it doesn't mean it is true.
Even if you were able to show evidence of that claim (which you probably aren't
) if Irish teachers teach more pupils than most other teachers, for more hours than most teachers, then it follows that their salary will be higher.
More hours=more money.
The OECD says Ireland's teachers are the fifth highest pay in the countries it studied. As I said previously Ireland's teachers are one of the highest paid in the world which the OECD backs up or are you questioning the OECD?
Not at all.
The OECD also says that Irish teachers spend more time teaching than most other teachers. You're not questioning that?
We're both saying the same thing really.
Irish teachers are amongst the top group when it comes to teaching time.
They are efficient, teaching larger classes than most of the OECD group.
It is logical that they are among the top earners.
More pupils, more hours, more pay.You use those graphs to show that primary teachers are not overpaid. Using the same criteria for secondary teachers then they are overpaid. Either these graphs are correct or they are not.
That graph refers to teaching time only. I haven't read up on class sizes in secondary education.0 -
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Just because you say something, it doesn't mean it is true.
Even if you were able to show evidence of that claim (which you probably aren't) if Irish teachers teach more pupils than most other teachers, for more hours than most teachers, then it follows that their salary will be higher.
More hours=more money.
The figures came from the OECD survey you are quoting;). You listed a number of countries working more hours than Irish teachers. All of them earn less than Irish teachers.
More Hours=less money
The OECD also says that Irish teachers spend more time teaching than most other teachers. You're not questioning that?
We're both saying the same thing really.
Irish teachers are amongst the top group when it comes to teaching time.
They are efficient, teaching larger classes than most of the OECD group.
It is logical that they are among the top earners.
More pupils, more hours, more pay.
.
Why not compare Irish hourly wage to other countries? The OECD takes as its "average" a teacher with 15 years experience. In Ireland a teacher with 15 years experience earns €50,000 a year. If we just take one allowance the honours degree allowance that adds €5000 extra. (I know not all teachers have honours but many do and I am ignoring all the other allowances). That gives €55,000 a year. According to you Irish teachers work 946 hours a year. That means they earn €58 an hour. How does this compare internationally?
Brian Lenihan offered teachers the chance to be benchmarked against teachers in other countries instead of a pay cut. Unions seem to back away from this. I wonder why?
A teacher with an honours degree (again ignoring all other allowances) earns €36,000 on day one. This is higher than the median wage of all workers in this country. It is also over 30% higher than average starting salary for University Graduates. (according to Grad Ireland the average starting salary of graduates in 2008 was €27,224). Obviously the teacher works substantially less hours.0 -
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