Globalised bank account monitorig in a "Swift" agreement between EU and US leaders.

Run_to_da_hills

European Union governments are meeting US Representatives to finalize a deal to allow US authorities snoop through your bank accounts. :eek:

Probably nothing new as since September 11th with all these "anti terrorism" measures they were probably at it unknowingly for the last few years but this is official

I read about Swift interbanking and what it would eventually lead to over 20 years ago. Basically the EU will allow its intelligence agencies to monitor your bank account and personal transactions across the bloc.



If someone seems "out of order" the Authorities can scrutinize personal transactions and freeze accounts if necessary. The authorities can also use such information as an additional border control filter.

It looks like now we would be better off hiding our cash and telling them to fook themselves. but we also know that are cash days are also numbered. :eek:


http://presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=112476&sectionid=351020605

mysterious

There never was any privacy.

We are born into a world naked, we assume with our clothes on now we assume we are not naked anymore. But we are the unverse, and all you see outside is yourself, because everything is you. Thats a deep terminology.

The new world that is to come, is no secrets, no lies, no trickery and no deceit. This seems all so shocking to us, because we never assumed the all seeing eye was here alll along.

When they look through your computuer and bank account details already if they really wanted, what difference does it make that your been told they do it. The only difference i see, is your now only aware of it.


All above watches all we do.

imstrongerthanu

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

European Union governments are meeting US Representatives to finalize a deal to allow US authorities snoop through your bank accounts. :eek:

Probably nothing new as since September 11th with all these "anti terrorism" measures they were probably at it unknowingly for the last few years but this is official

I read about Swift interbanking and what it would eventually lead to over 20 years ago. Basically the EU will allow its intelligence agencies to monitor your bank account and personal transactions across the bloc.



If someone seems "out of order" the Authorities can scrutinize personal transactions and freeze accounts if necessary. The authorities can also use such information as an additional border control filter.

It looks like now we would be better off hiding our cash and telling them to fook themselves. but we also know that are cash days are also numbered. :eek:


http://presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=112476&sectionid=351020605

Would you go as far as to talk with your local bank about this?

6th

mysterious wrote: »

There never was any privacy.

We are born into a world naked, we assume with our clothes on now we assume we are not naked anymore. But we are the unverse, and all you see outside is yourself, because everything is you. Thats a deep terminology.

The new world that is to come, is no secrets, no lies, no trickery and no deceit. This seems all so shocking to us, because we never assumed the all seeing eye was here alll along.

When they look through your computuer and bank account details already if they really wanted, what difference does it make that your been told they do it. The only difference i see, is your now only aware of it.


All above watches all we do.

Any more preachy, new agey crap like this and I'll delete it. Discuss the topic or take it to poetry corner.

Run_to_da_hills

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

Would you go as far as to talk with your local bank about this?

What can they do about it. :rolleyes:

Its like approaching a Voafone shop in Bray to lodge a complaint about the EU retention of digital data from servce providers. :rolleyes:

Diogenes

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

http://presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=112476&sectionid=351020605

Press.tv is a Iranian state run media organisation.

Some of the controversies about Press.tv.

[edit] How's this for funny. Apparently some EU ministers are quite keen to push this through by Nov 30th. Today? Why? Because as of tomorrow the Lisbon treaty takes affect, and the EU Parliament will be able to debate this. Apparently that pesky Lisbon treaty that was supposed to restrict our freedoms, is one thing standing in the way to this development [/edit]

Source

PirateShampoo

If you arnt doing anything illegal then why should you be worried?

Undergod

PirateShampoo wrote: »

If you arnt doing anything illegal then why should you be worried?

So you'd be okay with a police officer in your house 24/7?

Black Uhlan

Diogenes wrote: »

Press.tv is a Iranian state run media organisation.

Some of the controversies about Press.tv.

So? relevance?

PirateShampoo

Undergod wrote: »

So you'd be okay with a police officer in your house 24/7?

That doesn't make any sense, they arnt checking every single bank account, only accounts that get flagged due to irregular transactions. Your just trying to dramatize it with that statement.

Run_to_da_hills

PirateShampoo wrote: »

That doesn't make any sense, they arnt checking every single bank account, only accounts that get flagged due to irregular transactions. Your just trying to dramatize it with that statement.

In an extreme case every single item you purchase through the EFT is accounted for through the banks. This would of course include books, magazines, subscriptions to web sites etc which are registered through the ISBN numbers and IP addresses

This may all sound trivial but we have all heard of horror stories of people getting falsely arrested detained / deported at US / UK points of entry for being so called "terrorists". It would not take much to electronically build up profiles of individuals from reading materials and items purchased and cash is not going to be about forever.

Now days the authorities can have everything including medical records, bank details, driving, police record, etc at the swipe of a smart card.

Diogenes

Black Uhlan wrote: »

So? relevance?

In much of the same way we're asked to be dubious of state and corporate media, why should we trust a TV station that is clearly under the thumb of a repressive regime?

PirateShampoo

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

In an extreme case every single item you purchase through the EFT is accounted for through the banks. This would of course include books, magazines, subscriptions to web sites etc which are registered through the ISBN numbers and IP addresses

This may all sound trivial but we have all heard of horror stories of people getting falsely arrested detained / deported at US / UK points of entry for being so called "terrorists". It would not take much to electronically build up profiles of individuals from reading materials and items purchased and cash is not going to be about forever.

Now days the authorities can have everything including medical records, bank details, driving, police record, etc at the swipe of a smart card.

Do you have any idea how many magazines you would have to purchase before you where "noticed" on the system?

Unless your buying The Al-Qaeda Weekly, then i dont think you have much to worry about.

Run_to_da_hills

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Do you have any idea how many magazines you would have to purchase before you where "noticed" on the system?

Unless your buying The Al-Qaeda Weekly, then i don't think you have much to worry about.

There are quite a lot of material, social web sites, computer games etc that could draw enough attention to the authorities to pidgeon hole an individual.

EG someone who has a genuine interest in forensic pathology may be questioned as a suspect because the authorities might think he was trying to learn and avoid something.

For those that can remember the Birmingham 6. They were arrested and convicted for having something as simple as the scrapings off a pack of playing cars FFS.

PirateShampoo

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There are quite a lot of material, social web sites, computer games etc that could draw enough attention to the authorities to pidgeon hole an individual.

EG someone who has a genuine interest in forensic pathology may be questioned as a suspect because the authorities might think he was trying to learn and avoid something.

For those that can remember the Birmingham 6. They were arrested and convicted for having something as simple as the scrapings off a pack of playing cars FFS.

So your telling me everyone who plays the Airport level on MW2 is going to get investigated just because that level involves the player playing a terrorist?

Anyway your going way off your original topic. We need these measures in place to stop criminal types from exploiting the system.

Run_to_da_hills

PirateShampoo wrote: »

So your telling me everyone who plays the Airport level on MW2 is going to get investigated just because that level involves the player playing a terrorist?

Anyway your going way off your original topic..

Anything but off topic, the subject is about onoing Orwellian surveillance shared among the super blocks in the so called name of fighting terrorism :rolleyes:

PirateShampoo wrote: »

We need these measures in place to stop criminal types from exploiting the system.

Measures like storing all your person data, emails, text messages, VOIP, transit details ETC, Why the fcuk didn't they enforce all this on us when there was real terrorists, about IE during the troubles in NI. If they even attempted to tap our landlines back then there would have been uproar.

People are so gullible these days that they think that all these measures benefit intentional security when infact they really strip your civil liberties to the bone. :rolleyes:

Diogenes

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Anything but off topic, the subject is about onoing Orwellian surveillance shared among the super blocks in the so called name of fighting terrorism :rolleyes: Measures like storing all your person data, emails, text messages, VOIP, transit details ETC, Why the fcuk didn't they enforce all this on us when there was real terrorists, about IE during the troubles in NI.

I'm pretty sure that

A) we didn't have e-mail and text messages back in the 70s/80s

No one is planning to store every text message/e-mails/VOIP.
The database would be massive and impossible to manage, never mind storage capacity.
Never

If they even attempted to tap our landlines back then there would have been uproar.

No because neither government nor paramilitary agencies ever used electronic surveillance, or had spies in each others organisations.

Run_to_da_hills

Diogenes wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that

A) we didn't have e-mail and text messages back in the 70s/80s

So just because they develop wonderful technology like cell phones, internet, smart cards etc the authorities have the right to use it all against us in the name of "fighting so called terrorism". :rolleyes:

Diogenes wrote: »

No one is planning to store every text message/e-mails/VOIP.
The database would be massive and impossible to manage, never mind storage capacity. Never.

Service providers and corporates will be required to hold all this data by law for up to two years at he disposal of the authorities which in many instances will give them 24/7 365 live access to data. I thought you would hae been aware of this from my previous posts and links

And anyway cell site analysis, text messages, smart card transit records, etc would take up the minimum amount of disk drive space so I couldn't see it being a storage problem at all.

robtri

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Anything but off topic, the subject is about onoing Orwellian surveillance shared among the super blocks in the so called name of fighting terrorism :rolleyes: Measures like storing all your person data, emails, text messages, VOIP, transit details ETC, Why the fcuk didn't they enforce all this on us when there was real terrorists, about IE during the troubles in NI. If they even attempted to tap our landlines back then there would have been uproar.

People are so gullible these days that they think that all these measures benefit intentional security when infact they really strip your civil liberties to the bone. :rolleyes:

if you don't like the technology.... then don't use it.... simple really.....

if you sign up to use technology, then you know it will be monitored....

there is nothing here to do with civil liberities......

can you tell me where in civil liberites it refers to use of email or telephones anonymously..... please I would like to know... or is this more hype and overreaction ...

Run_to_da_hills

robtri wrote: »

if you don't like the technology.... then don't use it.... simple really....

Not as easy as that, emails, text messages smart cards are now becoming more and more a way of life. They are now becoming an necessity in some cases like booking flights. Many corporates will not entertain you unless you can provide bank details and a direct deit. Try hiring a car without a credit card.

We are slowly being conditioned to accepting track n' trace technology by the "carrot of convenience" I would give it at the most five years and we will have no option other than registered smartcrds to travel on all urban transit systems. I also foresee land lines disappear and cell phones being used a electronic cash cards.. We are already seeing the demise of the phone booth.

robtri wrote: »

if you sign up to use technology, then you know it will be monitored....

You don't have to sign up to anything, just use it and you can be pin pointed and tracked in a matter of time if threwas any suspicion. People are foolish if the believe they can remain unanimous by using unregistered pre paid cell phones.

Ever hear of digital fingerprints?

robtri

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Not as easy as that, emails, text messages smart cards are now becoming more and more a way of life. They are now becoming an necessity in some cases like booking flights. Many corporates will not entertain you unless you can provide bank details and a direct deit. Try hiring a car without a credit card.

yes it is that easy...... you don't need to use email, you don't need to use interent.

lets look at car hire since you brought it up.... yes you can rent a car by cash, and not use a credit card... I worked for 10 years within a car rental company here in ireland..... booking a flight... nothing stopping you going to airport and paying cash... absolutely nothing ( may cost you more but thats your choice)
so what you are saying is a load of misinformation you have read and believe....
I am not aware of any service in this country that I cannot use/get... that requires the mandatory use of a credit card.....

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

We are slowly being conditioned to accepting track n' trace technology by the "carrot of convenience" I would give it at the most five years and we will have no option other than registered smartcrds to travel on all urban transit systems. I also foresee land lines disappear and cell phones being used a electronic cash cards.. We are already seeing the demise of the phone booth.

You don't have to sign up to anything, just use it and you can be pin pointed and tracked in a matter of time if threwas any suspicion. People are foolish if the believe they can remain unanimous by using unregistered pre paid cell phones.

Ever hear of digital fingerprints?

carrot of convenience is a choice..... it is not mandatory... so whats is the problem......

I said that all these uses are traceable, and if you don't want to be traced don't use the service...... again its a choice thing...

lets use the car rental thing as an example.... you can pay by cash... but you still have to provide evidence of who you are, driving licence, ect....
to use the car rental service the company provides...

So why should it be any different to use Company B's internet service....... why should that be anonymous????


I am still waiting to hear how using these technologies is against civil liberties.....????

Run_to_da_hills

robtri wrote: »

yes it is that easy...... you don't need to use email, you don't need to use interent.

lets look at car hire since you brought it up.... yes you can rent a car by cash, and not use a credit card... I worked for 10 years within a car rental company here in ireland.

Next time you book a holiday abroad I would like to see you arrive at your detonation with a wad of cash at a car hire desk. Anyway they will request your driving license which is as good a agiveaway as your credit card / ID.

robtri wrote: »

Booking a flight... nothing stopping you going to airport and paying cash... absolutely nothing ( may cost you more but thats your choice)
so what you are saying is a load of misinformation you have read and believe.... .

Try booking a Ryanair flight without a credit card, apart from being fleed at the airport you will also have to produce your passport or EU id which defeats the unanimity of cash

robtri wrote: »

I am still waiting to hear how using these technologies is against civil liberties.....????

I already stated that this technology can and currently is being used by state authorities to infringe on our civil liberties and I am not going to repeat myself.

robtri

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Next time you book a holiday abroad I would like to see you arrive at your detonation with a wad of cas looking for car hire. Anyway they have your driving license which is as good as your credit card / ID in many countries such as the US.

As I have said you can do it here, I have done it in spain and on the continent as well.... haven't tried it in the US.... so can't comment, but I really do believe that a local rental firm would rent me a car for cash....
so if you don't want to use a credit card don't..... no-one is forcing you...

you seriosuly need to get that into your head.... no one is forcing you to use one........

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Try booking a yanair flight without a credit card, apart from being fleed at the airport you will also have to produce your passport or EU id which defeats the unanimity of cash

by your own comments you can book a flight without a creditcard...... will it cost you more with Ryan Air.... yes..... but thats not the point.... the point is you can.........

as above no one forcing you to use one.....

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I already stated that this technology can and currently is being used by state authorities to infringe on our civil liberties and I am not going to repeat myself.

for all I care the UK could shove tracking devices where the sun doesn;'t shine... how does that effect me???????

And again you still haven't said what civil Liberities are being abused by using a phone or email and the company that provides that service holding information........

mickoneill30

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Try booking a Ryanair flight without a credit card, apart from being fleed at the airport you will also have to produce your passport or EU id which defeats the unanimity of cash

You can book a Ryanair flight from most travel agents with cash. Of course you have to produce ID though, your boarding card has to have the same name as your ID. If you want total anonyminity buy a boat (with cash).

mickoneill30

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Try booking a Ryanair flight without a credit card, apart from being fleed at the airport you will also have to produce your passport or EU id which defeats the unanimity of cash

You can book a Ryanair flight from most travel agents with cash. Of course you have to produce ID though, your boarding card has to have the same name as your ID. If you want total anonyminity buy a boat (with cash) but then you'll have the pesky coastguard infringing on your civil liberties.

PirateShampoo

Next you will be giving out about having to produce your passport when you travel to another country. And of course they are going to ask for your driving license when hiring a car, its a License to Drive a Car.

Diogenes

mickoneill30 wrote: »

You can book a Ryanair flight from most travel agents with cash. Of course you have to produce ID though, your boarding card has to have the same name as your ID. If you want total anonyminity buy a boat (with cash) but then you'll have the pesky coastguard infringing on your civil liberties.

And before we joined the EU you needed to have you passport stamped and sometimes have visas before we joined the EU.

This is a weird have a cake and eat it situation. RtdH seems to be outraged by Passport checks at the current EU but forgets what it was like before these treaties existed.

Diogenes

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Next you will be giving out about having to produce your passport when you travel to another country. And of course they are going to ask for your driving license when hiring a car, its a License to Drive a Car.

There is an old RtdH post were he complains that streamlining EU driving licence arrangements means that if he committed a driving offence while in another EU country he wouldn't be able to just go home and forget it. Apparently this was outrageous.

robtri

Diogenes wrote: »

There is an old RtdH post were he complains that streamlining EU driving licence arrangements means that if he committed a driving offence while in another EU country he wouldn't be able to just go home and forget it. Apparently this was outrageous.

sorry but thats priceless............

Diogenes

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Anything but off topic, the subject is about onoing Orwellian surveillance shared among the super blocks in the so called name of fighting terrorism :rolleyes:

I have to ask about this "so called name of fighting terrorism"?

If all you are doing is ordering books off Amazon, music of Itunes, flights etc
Wheres the harm?

Diogenes

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Next time you book a holiday abroad I would like to see you arrive at your detonation with a wad of cash at a car hire desk.

The whole idea of a credit card is to ensure you have a traceable line of credit if you trash the car.

Have you ever tried to hire a car with just a wad of cash? "Really you want to rent our 16,000 thousand pound car, with 500 quid cash, no security or anything else"?

Anyway they will request your driving license which is as good a agiveaway as your credit card / ID.

Shocking I know a car hire company expecting some evidence of your driving ability before they give you a car.

Try booking a Ryanair flight without a credit card, apart from being fleed at the airport you will also have to produce your passport or EU id which defeats the unanimity of cash

Then er don't use Ryanair?

I discovered recently I can travel from the nearest UK train station to Ireland using cash, utterly directly. Of course I do need to present photo ID at the customs like, er, no wait I always needed to do that.

robtri

Diogenes wrote: »

The whole idea of a credit card is to ensure you have a traceable line of credit if you trash the car.

Have you ever tried to hire a car with just a wad of cash? "Really you want to rent our 16,000 thousand pound car, with 500 quid cash, no security or anything else"?

you can..... I have here and abroad...... never a huge issue...

Diogenes

robtri wrote: »

you can..... I have here and abroad...... never a huge issue...

No you can. You usually need to leave a large sum around €500 or so. Or alternatively you can dock the amount from a credit card or debt card, and have the amount returned to the card at a small or no fee once the card is returned.

The latter is the sensible choice obviously as it means you do not need to carry a large amount of cash on you. And if you are only planning on doing some driving to a friends wedding or social event, plan on obeying the rules of the road, not speed, nor drink and drive it's a no brainer. If on the other hand you think a speeding ticket in another EU country is the greatest outrage in the world...