The Off Topic Thread...

FunkZ

Talking about nutrition with friends...

/jumps off cliff.

El_Dangeroso

FunkZ wrote: »

Talking about nutrition with friends...

/jumps off cliff.

Oh jesus don't go there, just start a debate about whether God exists or not. Much less hassle in my experience.

FunkZ

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Oh jesus don't go there, just start a debate about whether God exists or not. Much less hassle in my experience.

The bible would be quoted, I'd facepalm. And then I'd get even more annoyed, and counter it with a Spiderman comic, insisting he is real.

rocky

FunkZ wrote: »

Talking about nutrition with friends...

/jumps off cliff.

FunkZ wrote: »

The bible would be quoted, I'd facepalm. And then I'd get even more annoyed, and counter it with a Spiderman comic, insisting he is real.

Which side were you on?

El_Dangeroso

So I'm coaching this person to eat healthier. They ask me have I read 'Why we get fat' by Gary Taubes and what I thought of it.

Not enough time in the world to open THAT can of worms, but I am teaching them to lower carbs..sooo.. tempting to just say 'Yes! everything in that book is absolutely right!', but integrity won out and I politely disagreed with some points in the book and then moved the feck on very quickly!

FunkZ

rocky wrote: »

Which side were you on?

Spiderman is fictionally real

FunkZ

I've just cracked it... It's upside down!

Clareh123

You're a prick FunkZ

UnknownSpecies

Thought this might interest some of ye here, don't want to start a new thread! http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/06/when-a-calorie-is-not-just-a-calorie/

rocky

Carbsane has 'a few' posts on the same study:

http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2012/06/friday-jama-lama-ding-dong.html
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2012/06/more-on-ebbeling-etal-jama-study.html
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2012/06/great-calorie-debate-young-biophysicist.html
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2012/07/what-we-really-learn-from-ebbeling-etal.html
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2012/07/variability-error-yeah-and-one-more.html

rubadub

dorgasm wrote: »

Thought this might interest some of ye here, don't want to start a new thread! http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/06/when-a-calorie-is-not-just-a-calorie/

“We’ve found that, contrary to nutritional dogma, all calories are not created equal,” says Ludwig, who is also director of the Optimal Weight for Life Clinic at Boston Children’s Hospital.

Is there really a dogma out there saying all calories are equal? like have people done studies attempting to prove they will have 100% identical/equal effects on the body?

I thought the 'nutritional dogma' is the exact opposite, that most are saying they are different. I would find it outlandish to claim they would be identical.

I just googled "all calories are equal"
And as I expected every link was about how they are NOT equal.

This type of thing really irritates me, when they make claims like this "oh sure everybody is going around saying such & such", when there is clearly no evidence that people actually are.

Heres another
http://blog.aarp.org/2012/06/14/are-all-calories-created-equal/

For years, nutritionists told us that all calories are equal.

What nutritionists, where did they state this, in what context? has anybody ever seen it? If these people were questioned did they 100% stick to their claim/statement?

It is like these stupid myths the test on mythbusters.

Myth statement: A lead balloon cannot fly (as per the idiom, "going down like a lead balloon").

This is not a common myth/misconception, I never heard of anybody doubting whether a balloon made from lead could fly.

UnknownSpecies

I took it with a pinch of salt to be honest. It's done nothing to turn me off sticking to my low carb diet anyway.

El_Dangeroso

rocky

Blueberries + Kale

VS.

Beef + Beef Liver

when I see the above, it just makes me think, why have you selected those as the combinations.

Beef and Kale seems like a great combo!

rocky

Not me, Chris Kresser

Don't you like liver?

rocky

Someone with powers should edit wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet

This dietary approach is a controversial topic amongst dietitians[16][17] and anthropologists,[7][18] and an article on the National Health Service of the United Kingdom Choices website suggests that it may be a fad diet.[19] Critics have argued that if hunter-gatherer societies failed to suffer from "diseases of civilization", this was mostly due to reduced calories in their diet, shorter average lifespans, or a variety of other factors, rather than some special diet composition.[20] Some researchers have taken issue with the accuracy of the diet's underlying evolutionary logic.[20][21][22]

Also disputed are some dietary recommendations and restrictions on the grounds that they provide no health benefits or pose health risks[20][21] and are not likely to accurately reflect the features of ancient Paleolithic diets.[22][23]

A 2011 ranking by U.S. News & World Report, involving a panel of 22 experts, ranked the Paleo diet lowest of the 20 diets evaluated based on factors including health, weight-loss and ease of following.[24] These results were repeated in the 2012 survey, where the diet placed 24th out of 24, stating that their experts "took issue with the diet on every measure".[24]

El_Dangeroso

So. Many. Fallacies. Yep, a 3 million year old fad. Not paleo anymore myself but hate seeing the same old crap trotted out.

I don't edit wikipedia but I have noticed that it's incredibly biased towards veganism. Check out the vegan diet article:

The American Dietetic Association considers well-planned vegan diets "appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy and lactation," but recommends that vegan mothers supplement for iron, vitamin D, and vitamin B12.

Jesus wept. What about omega 3, taurine, choline and all the nutrients we haven't even discovered yet? I mean we are indisputably, biologically omnivores, and yet it's fine to eat a brand new diet invented in 1944 but for christ's sake whatever you do don't give up bread!

rocky

Looking at that article,
http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-overall-diets

People voted for weightwatchers/Dukan/ vegan and vegetarian


Paleo:
Did this diet work for you?Yes 7269 No 24241

Hard to believe such a large number of people tried paleo and it 'didn't work' for them...

El_Dangeroso

rocky wrote: »

Looking at that article,
http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-overall-diets

People voted for weightwatchers/Dukan/ vegan and vegetarian


Paleo:
Did this diet work for you?Yes 7269 No 24241

Hard to believe such a large number of people tried paleo and it 'didn't work' for them...

Hard to know with online polls, sher didn't the Wolfe tones win the best song in some BBC thing.:)

Having said that, no, paleo will definitely not work for a lot of people, mostly as it requires preparing pretty much all your own food and avoiding processed food which lets face it is what 99% of people subsist on. Hence the popularity of weight watchers etc.

UnknownSpecies

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Hard to know with online polls, sher didn't the Wolfe tones win the best song in some BBC thing.:)

Having said that, no, paleo will definitely not work for a lot of people, mostly as it requires preparing pretty much all your own food and avoiding processed food which lets face it is what 99% of people subsist on. Hence the popularity of weight watchers etc.

Especially when they expect results in a week or two. That's probably why it's so unpopular with those polls. Never did paleo myself but it seems a lot more sensible than veganism or weight watchers. How can someone argue with eating all natural foods!?

El_Dangeroso

It's my 5 year anniversary of keeping off my 40lb weight loss today!

My chances of keeping it off forever just went up exponentially.

Imma celabrate with a boring chicken and potato dinner.

Gummy Panda

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Imma celabrate with a boring chicken and potato dinner.

Potatoes are never boring!! :mad:

Orla K

rocky wrote: »

Looking at that article,
http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-overall-diets

People voted for weightwatchers/Dukan/ vegan and vegetarian


Paleo:
Did this diet work for you?Yes 7269 No 24241

Hard to believe such a large number of people tried paleo and it 'didn't work' for them...

I'd suspect that the the no's have something to do with the vegetarian yes 18221 and the vegan yes 16039.
The diets that are known to be meat/protein based all seem to have a high amount of no's

Haven't posted in ages! wrist was really buggered, typing made it worse, it's still not great.

Animord

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

It's my 5 year anniversary of keeping off my 40lb weight loss today!

My chances of keeping it off forever just went up exponentially.

Imma celabrate with a boring chicken and potato dinner.

Well done!

I am curious about weight loss and regain over time broken down into different diet types or methods of weightloss - I have tried googling but there is so much information out there (almost like people are obsessed with diets ). Do you know any place that I could get that info?

How did you do it?

El_Dangeroso

Animord wrote: »

Well done!

I am curious about weight loss and regain over time broken down into different diet types or methods of weightloss - I have tried googling but there is so much information out there (almost like people are obsessed with diets ). Do you know any place that I could get that info?

How did you do it?

I did find a paper about weight regain statistics, can't find it now but I remember than it said chance of regain over 5 years is 99%. After that it's 5%

I did it by pretty much making it a lifestyle, which I know is clichee but it's true! Not to say I don't have off days/weeks/months :P

Couple things helped:

1. I have a 'panic weight' that means if I hit this weight it's no longer 'day to day' fluctuation and I really need to get my act together.

2. I weigh every day, terrible for weight loss, good for maintennance.

3. I have IBS so if I go off piste for too long I start to get sick. This is a good kick in the backside to get back on the wagon

4. Finally, and this was the HARDEST lesson to learn. Don't EVER EVER let what you ate make you feel guilty. I've only ever got this one this year. Enjoy it, draw a line and get back on the wagon immediately.

Animord

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I did find a paper about weight regain statistics, can't find it now but I remember than it said chance of regain over 5 years is 99%. After that it's 5%

I did it by pretty much making it a lifestyle, which I know is clichee but it's true! Not to say I don't have off days/weeks/months :P

Couple things helped:

1. I have a 'panic weight' that means if I hit this weight it's no longer 'day to day' fluctuation and I really need to get my act together.

2. I weigh every day, terrible for weight loss, good for maintennance.

3. I have IBS so if I go off piste for too long I start to get sick. This is a good kick in the backside to get back on the wagon

4. Finally, and this was the HARDEST lesson to learn. Don't EVER EVER let what you ate make you feel guilty. I've only ever got this one this year. Enjoy it, draw a line and get back on the wagon immediately.

Thanks.

Cliches are cliches because they are true!

I have a fascination with the subject and I really want to see a paper that lists each diet method like say WW 90% after five years or whatever (not that I want people to fail, if you see what I mean!).

I have lost 71 lbs (just over 5 stone) and though I started on Paleo I am pretty relaxed about the whole thing nowadays - have lost it over two years and at this stage it is so deeply ingrained in me that I don't really think about it - in fact, left to my own devices I am inclined to eat too little.

Panic weight is a good idea, I can see how that would work. I weigh every day too and have all the way through - the fluctuations don't bother me at all - so that's fine. And I think that fact that I had TWO crunchies on the way home yesterday and didn't feel one iota of guilt can attest to the fact that I am okay on the guilt thing

I might have to write the paper on gain myself as I can't find it. I guess it is hard to get people to admit it though the number of people who say stuff like "I am starting weightwatchers/SW/MFP again" is a clue. (I am not any more anti WW than any other method it is just that I did it, lost it and put more on so I have experience of it).

Thanks for your reply.

hollypink

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I did find a paper about weight regain statistics, can't find it now but I remember than it said chance of regain over 5 years is 99%. After that it's 5%

Not very encouraging statistics but they tally my own experience anyway. I lost weight (pretty much the same 2 stone) twice before using Weightwatchers in my twenties and now in my mid thirties, I've had to do it again, this time using a Paleo approach. Despite the habits I've learned from eating well over several months(eating ingredients as opposed to eating things made of ingredients), it hasn't removed the desire to eat the things that made me overweight and like lots of people, I struggle to eat those things in moderation. Maybe the 'panic weight' idea could be a good approach for me.

El_Dangeroso

Can't find that dang paper anywhere! I did find this though:

http://www.obesitymanagement.com.au/media/1103/wadden%20a%20multicentre%20eval%20of%20pty%20weight%20loss%20program%20for%20treatment%20of%20obesity%20a%205%20yr%20follow%20up%201997.pdf

About 10% people kept off a weight of 20% of original weight or more after 5 years. So that's more optimistic than my gloomy stats! (though it should be stated that 21% dropped out of the study, so I'm guessing they probably didn't maintain AND they were given A LOT of support and coaching)

Also interesting is that paper is partially based on a meal shake replacement diet (very low calorie), it wouldn't be the first paper showing that a crash diet (if you can stick to it for a couple months) tends to have better longer term results than 'gentle' approaches. :eek:

Animord

Oh dear. Better update the stickies - crash diets work!