The Off Topic Thread...

Sapsorrow

Really? What could medications do for me or say a coeliac? Do they reduce inflammation in the gut or help you absorb nutrients better or something? I don't have any qualms with meds as long as I know I'm in the hands of a good doctor, which I know I am now. I'm on meds again now for depression anyway (for me it's purely biochemical, not at all circumstantial, not sure if that's better or worse lol ), so if I could heal my gut and inadvertently heal my brain in the process it'd be a fantastic trade off tbh Curing the depression may be as simple as getting shots of B vitamins that can then actually get into my system or healing my gut so I can absorb nutrients from my food properly again. Bizarre really, makes you realise just how precious one's gut really is to the integrity of the health of the body.

Sapsorrow

El D can you reccomend a K2 supp on Iherb for me?

Your counterpart on MArks daily apple CillaKat (who's equally astonishingly well informed on everything nutrition related) recommended I look at this: http://www.iherb.com/Nature-s-Plus-Hema-Plex-Multinutrient-Hematinic-Supplement-30-Tablets/7662?at=0 to cover most of my needs in one supplement. She's a huge advocate of mega (ie. proper) doses of D3 but reckons I shouldn't be taking calcium, rather focusing on getting optimal D3, K2 and Magnesium from supplements for bone health as my mum has a degenerative skeletal condition affecting her spine that's genetic, it's not osteoperosis/penia though.

brianthebard

Sapsorrow wrote: »

Lol I know ya I remember alright!

Ugh no I wouldn't dare replace kale with cabbage, sounds scary, like something from a Roald Dahl book (cabbage flavoured crisps) :pac:

What do the kale chips taste like so??? They're both cabbages like.

Renn

cream ( I know, I know)

Sorry but I'm not sure why you've included the 'I know, I know' part Just after having a bowl full of cream, natural yogurt and 85% dark chocolate. Probably could have done with a sweetener of some sort...

El_Dangeroso

Sapsorrow wrote: »

El D can you reccomend a K2 supp on Iherb for me?

Your counterpart on MArks daily apple CillaKat (who's equally astonishingly well informed on everything nutrition related) recommended I look at this: http://www.iherb.com/Nature-s-Plus-Hema-Plex-Multinutrient-Hematinic-Supplement-30-Tablets/7662?at=0 to cover most of my needs in one supplement. She's a huge advocate of mega (ie. proper) doses of D3 but reckons I shouldn't be taking calcium, rather focusing on getting optimal D3, K2 and Magnesium from supplements for bone health as my mum has a degenerative skeletal condition affecting her spine that's genetic, it's not osteoperosis/penia though.

There are indeed good medications for reducing inflammation in the bowel, they are a temporary measure but could be good while you heal yourself.

I take thorne brand 1mg/day. If I was going down the supplement route, I'd remove ANY potential gut irritants (no nightshades, dairy, nuts), LOADS of homemade beef stock, fatty red meat, fish, shellfish, vegetables, coconut, fruit and seaweed(seaweed every day) for at least a month. Supplement with glutamine and digestive enzymes, sublingual B12 and good quality probiotics (tell your doctor about all of this).

It's a fricking tough regime, I won't lie, but it's only 30 days and it's basically throwing everything you can at it to be done with it for good.

Get your D levels tested too, to adjust dose, always test, never guess.

brianthebard

I've supplemented with glutamine in the past but have read that it is basically destroyed in the stomach before it can be put to use in the small intestine (just recalling what I read so if that doesn't make sense apologies). Do you know if this is the case or not, or if there are different ways of supplementing with glutamine that are better or worse?

El_Dangeroso

brianthebard wrote: »

I've supplemented with glutamine in the past but have read that it is basically destroyed in the stomach before it can be put to use in the small intestine (just recalling what I read so if that doesn't make sense apologies). Do you know if this is the case or not, or if there are different ways of supplementing with glutamine that are better or worse?

Ooh, good question, not sure. It does seem to help apparently improve intestinal permeability in critically ill patients:

http://journals.lww.com/ccmjournal/Abstract/2005/05000/Intestinal_permeability_and_systemic_infections_in.35.aspx

It does seem in other trials to improve inflammatory bowel diseases.

Pembily

Sapsorrow so sorry to hear that you are unwell again, you really thought you had it all sorted when you went paleo!!! Best of luck with the tests, the scope is grand, no bother at all!! Fingers crossed!

Is depression linked to not being able to absorp nutrients?? What are the best vitamins to supplement with??

Thanks!!

Sapsorrow

Pembily wrote: »

Sapsorrow so sorry to hear that you are unwell again, you really thought you had it all sorted when you went paleo!!! Best of luck with the tests, the scope is grand, no bother at all!! Fingers crossed!

Is depression linked to not being able to absorp nutrients?? What are the best vitamins to supplement with??

Thanks!!

Thanks Pem

Not sure how diredlty it's related to the inability to absorb nutrients,. but it is linked to sub-optimal levels or deficiencies in some, so whether that's the same thing is for you to decide :pac: Magnesium, Omega 3's, Folic acid, B6 and B12 (I think??) are the main ones to watch for!

Renn: Because non-fermented dairy gives me wicked IBS, so I'm only punishing myself :pac:

teacosy

Sapsorrow wrote: »

Just back from seeing my new GP (who I have to say is amazing, most comprehensive assessment I've ever had from a GP) and he reckons my angular stomatitis fundamentally has nothing to do with candida at all. He says it's all down the nutrient deficiency and strongly suspects I am Coeliac. I suffer from depression and panic attacks too and he reckons they along with the IBS and nutrient malabsorption (that causes the angular stomatits) all have the same underlying cause, he just doesn't know what it is yet. He's booked me in for a full bloods, an endoscopy and is testing for an under active thyroid and diabetes too. Bit stunned by it all tbh wasn't expecting it at all. Don't know where to go with my diet now though, he was impressed with my diet and supplementation regime and reckons to keep going with it till we know more and not to go on the anti-candida diet. He reckons I'm anaemic too despite all the meat I eat now. Anyone here had an endoscopy? I'm a bit worried about it, sounds awful

Hi
If you're going for an endoscopy to diagnose Coeliac Disease, be aware that you need to be on a Gluten containing diet for the biopsy to be meaningful. See section 4.2 here for more more.http://www.bsg.org.uk/images/stories/clinical/bsg_coeliac_10.pdf

Teacosy

Sapsorrow

teacosy wrote: »

Hi
If you're going for an endoscopy to diagnose Coeliac Disease, be aware that you need to be on a Gluten containing diet for the biopsy to be meaningful. See section 4.2 here for more more.http://www.bsg.org.uk/images/stories/clinical/bsg_coeliac_10.pdf

Teacosy

Oh god really? That sounds horrible, not looking forward to working through that aftermath! Thanks for the heads up, will start mental preparations now

Renn

I will most definitely be going on a gluten binge over the festive period...currently stocking up on the Roses/Toblerones/etc...a week of that will make me appreciate primal even more

Red Cortina

Renn wrote: »

I will most definitely be going on a gluten binge over the festive period...currently stocking up on the Roses/Toblerones/etc...a week of that will make me appreciate primal even more

Well roses are classed as very low gluten and toblerones are gluten free so your planned gluten binge doesn't look to be going so well!!!!

Renn

The gluten is contained in the etc part

But my post was basically to point out that the diet will be all over the place at some stage. Though I've no desire to return to eating pasta/rice...really have a dislike for that food now. Used to eat it the whole time too.

brianthebard

Are maple syrup and honey primal??

Sapsorrow

brianthebard wrote: »

Are maple syrup and honey primal??

Technically, the primal diet is very much open to the interpretation of the individual though. Some on MDA use oats all the time as well as copious amounts of honey, maple syrup etc. I wouldn't consider that in keeping with the principles of primal myself.

El_Dangeroso

Great article on the differences between honey and refined sugar here:

http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2010/10/high-fructose-corn-syrup-is-sweet.html

Personally I think a little bit of honey is fine if you have no issues with glucose tolerance. I wouldn't eat it every day but I'd use it before an synthetic artificial sweetener. A tablespoon would be sufficient for a large batch of homemade ice-cream

Renn

Just picked up the following at lunch:

Almond flour (1kg) €8.50
Whole almonds (800g) €7.95
Cashew nuts (300g) €3.95
Desiccated coconut (500g) €1.95
Coconut flour (800g) €4.85
Coconut chips (125g) €1.20


Still trying to figure out if I got a good deal or not

Renn

Just checked fitday.com there to see what my daily evening treat (few tbs of natural yogurt, few tbs of double cream, some flaked amonds, some squares of 85% chocolate) works out at:

Calories: 616
Fat: 51.9g (Saturated 27.6g, Polyunsaturated 1.5g, Monounsaturated 13.4g)
Carbs: 33.5g
Protein: 10.8g


Still bit high in carbs for the evening time, isn't it?

brianthebard

you could change the natural yogurt to greek.

Renn

Cool...what are the main benefits of that over natural?

brianthebard

lower carb, if you get the right brand(s). You could possibly try grating or chopping the chocolate to make less go further.

Adelie

Lidl's Greek yoghurt is something like 10g fat per 100g, 2.8g carbs per 100g. It's so tasty too.

Sapsorrow

Just made bone marrow stock there, got a tonne of beef bones from a butcher in the English market for a fiver (still with plenty of eating between the ribs etc.), boiled them down for 3-4 hours, added 2 lbs of stewing beef, loads of carrots, swede and potato, a few veggie stock cubes and some fresh sage and rosemary, Yum! Although I am stunned at how much fat has come from the bones, I'm very slightly disturbed by it in fact... but not enough to stop me adding a few tbs of butter on top of my bowl! Anyone want to link me some info on just how nutritious bone stock is? I need motivation to keep doing it as it's actually a fair bit of effort and I've no freezer to store it.

rubadub

Renn wrote: »

Almond flour (1kg) €8.50
Whole almonds (800g) €7.95
Cashew nuts (300g) €3.95
Desiccated coconut (500g) €1.95
Coconut flour (800g) €4.85
Coconut chips (125g) €1.20


Still trying to figure out if I got a good deal or not

Seems decent prices, where did you get it? Holland & barret can have offers sometimes, Asian shops can have nuts very cheap. I got east end brand coconut flour cheap in the asian shop in dublins blackrock market.

Saw this crazy poster in a pub :eek:

Renn

Haha

Got all the stuff in the Asian food market btw

El_Dangeroso

That poster's from a time when most people had stomach parasites so getting too thin was a real problem, either that or you had the consumption.:pac:

metamorphosis

Like iv said before i have been taking a nice dosage of D3 since March and just a few days ago bought magnesium to take from reading i was inspired to do from reading El D's posts.

Anyway - iv noticed that im actually sleeping much better since taking it. I know there's some evidence to show it helps with sleep. With some new working patterns lately my training has been later in the day like at 9, 10pm at night - some hard runs in there. As a result, my sleep pattern was a bit jumbled, sleeping an hour later than i usually would, waking throughout the night a little and more tired the next day but since taking magnesium (im using the spray on on your body/in your mouth version and spraying it right after i shower before bed) once i nod off i conk and have been waking up feeling great - fully undisturbed peace.

Is this a side effect of the magnesium? Much better sleep? Placebo effect maybe?

El_Dangeroso

ULstudent wrote: »

Like iv said before i have been taking a nice dosage of D3 since March and just a few days ago bought magnesium to take from reading i was inspired to do from reading El D's posts.

Anyway - iv noticed that im actually sleeping much better since taking it. I know there's some evidence to show it helps with sleep. With some new working patterns lately my training has been later in the day like at 9, 10pm at night - some hard runs in there. As a result, my sleep pattern was a bit jumbled, sleeping an hour later than i usually would, waking throughout the night a little and more tired the next day but since taking magnesium (im using the spray on on your body/in your mouth version and spraying it right after i shower before bed) once i nod off i conk and have been waking up feeling great - fully undisturbed peace.

Is this a side effect of the magnesium? Much better sleep? Placebo effect maybe?

Unlikely to be placebo effect, magnesium is well known to help sleep.

I'm shopping round for a new Mag supplement. That natural calm stuff starts annoying my stomach after a week or two of continued use. I think I'm gonna go the transdermal route and go for magnesium oil. It takes 1-2 years to fully replenish Mg from food, 6months to 1 year from supps and apparently only 6 weeks by rubbing the oil on your skin, at least that's what the sellers of the oil say, ha! They tested intracellular magnesium so that's the gold standard Mg test.

Renn

1tbsp of almond butter : Total Omega-6 fatty acids 1901mg

Wow.

El_Dangeroso

Renn wrote: »

1tbsp of almond butter : Total Omega-6 fatty acids 1901mg

Wow.

That's not so bad..only 1.9g. You can have 9g of omega 6 a day and still keep % cals under 4%.

Just don't be eating gobs of the stuff

Renn

Well I recently made an almond/banana/walnut bread that contained 2 cups of almond flour

Someone was saying heavy cream is good for balancing it out - agree?

Total Omega-3 fatty acids 538mg

Total Omega-6 fatty acids 836mg

Renn

Oh and I do supplement with stuff from iherb and eat fish twice a week, but currently trying to justify having 100ml-200ml of double cream a day

El_Dangeroso

Renn wrote: »

Well I recently made an almond/banana/walnut bread that contained 2 cups of almond flour

Someone was saying heavy cream is good for balancing it out - agree?

Total Omega-3 fatty acids 538mg

Total Omega-6 fatty acids 836mg

I dunno, I did read that sat fat can mitigate the damage done by o6 but I've never seen a reference, wishful thinking perhaps!

Work away on the cream though, if you've no issues with dairy.

Renn

Cool. Nah, no issues with dairy (or anything really for that matter). Just prefer this way of eating

Still learning though - only learned of phytic acid recently enough, and of anti-nutrients in general. Think I'll have to start writing down some of this stuff as sometimes there's quite a bit to take in. Especially when I'm on Mark Sisson's site - so much reading to be done there!

Red Cortina

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Unlikely to be placebo effect, magnesium is well known to help sleep.

I'm shopping round for a new Mag supplement. That natural calm stuff starts annoying my stomach after a week or two of continued use. I think I'm gonna go the transdermal route and go for magnesium oil. It takes 1-2 years to fully replenish Mg from food, 6months to 1 year from supps and apparently only 6 weeks by rubbing the oil on your skin, at least that's what the sellers of the oil say, ha! They tested intracellular magnesium so that's the gold standard Mg test.

Didn't know that! Very interesting info there.
Might purchase some topical magnesium myself...

El_Dangeroso

Red Cortina wrote: »

Didn't know that! Very interesting info there.
Might purchase some topical magnesium myself...

Apparently it can sting until you adapt to it. But if you dilute it in lotion or water it doesn't sting.

Epsom salts in a bath are a very cheap way of getting topical Mg. I almost fell asleep in the bath once it was so relaxing!

metamorphosis

New website for runners set up by a veteran runner from the ART forum. I submitted 2 articles to it (qualified in the area), 1st one was on support systems for younger athletes but the second one was me pimping vitd3 and its positive effects and pimping vitdcouncil.org and book/art on vitd - hopefullt it wll get more people onto vit d3!

brianthebard

ULstudent wrote: »

Like iv said before i have been taking a nice dosage of D3 since March and just a few days ago bought magnesium to take from reading i was inspired to do from reading El D's posts.

Anyway - iv noticed that im actually sleeping much better since taking it. I know there's some evidence to show it helps with sleep. With some new working patterns lately my training has been later in the day like at 9, 10pm at night - some hard runs in there. As a result, my sleep pattern was a bit jumbled, sleeping an hour later than i usually would, waking throughout the night a little and more tired the next day but since taking magnesium (im using the spray on on your body/in your mouth version and spraying it right after i shower before bed) once i nod off i conk and have been waking up feeling great - fully undisturbed peace.

Is this a side effect of the magnesium? Much better sleep? Placebo effect maybe?

Zinc and Mag definitely work but unfortunately for me I wake up very groggy when I take my tablets, don't know what that's about.

metamorphosis

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

6 weeks by rubbing the oil on your skin, at least that's what the sellers of the oil say, ha! They tested intracellular magnesium so that's the gold standard Mg test.

I checked this morning and I am using a spray version of mag oil

This one - don't know if that's cheap or expensive for it http://www.superfooduk.com/magnesium-oil-original-spray-100ml-5863-p.asp

I paid circa 12e

rubadub

brianthebard wrote: »

Zinc and Mag definitely work but unfortunately for me I wake up very groggy when I take my tablets, don't know what that's about.

I have ZMA type tablets, they do make me sleepy but also give me acne, didn't know WTF it was at first!

I take diphenhydramine for hayfever and sometimes as sleeping tablets, I take it about 2hrs before I want to go asleep, this way I am very drowzy by that time and it has pretty much worn off by morning.

El_Dangeroso

ULstudent wrote: »

I checked this morning and I am using a spray version of mag oil

This one - don't know if that's cheap or expensive for it http://www.superfooduk.com/magnesium-oil-original-spray-100ml-5863-p.asp

I paid circa 12e

That's about average. No mention of potency though, anything on the bottle. Usually it's 150mg for 8 sprays.

El_Dangeroso

rubadub wrote: »

I have ZMA type tablets, they do make me sleepy but also give me acne, didn't know WTF it was at first!

That's weird! I find the opposite, zinc is supposed to help with skin I thought?

Was the magnesium Mg Oxide perchance? I know that's not absorbed well at all.

Red Cortina

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

That's about average. No mention of potency though, anything on the bottle. Usually it's 150mg for 8 sprays.

@ UL Regarding instructions on the bottle, does it give directions on where exactly on the body it should be used? ie behind knees or on soles of feet??

Renn

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

That's weird! I find the opposite, zinc is supposed to help with skin I thought?

Was the magnesium Mg Oxide perchance? I know that's not absorbed well at all.

Well I've heard that complaint about ZMA quite a bit, never noticed it myself though.

El_Dangeroso

Renn wrote: »

Well I've heard that complaint about ZMA quite a bit, never noticed it myself though.

I see from a quick google it does seem to cause acne. Something about messing around with hormone levels, namely testosterone. I've found magnesium (citrate) helps keep my skin in good order and I was very prone to hormonal breakouts before, maybe because I'm a girl.

Would love to know if anyone gets a problem with ZMA but not with magnesium.

rubadub

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I see from a quick google it does seem to cause acne. Something about messing around with hormone levels, namely testosterone. I've found magnesium (citrate) helps keep my skin in good order and I was very prone to hormonal breakouts before, maybe because I'm a girl.

Would love to know if anyone gets a problem with ZMA but not with magnesium.

I have heard zinc increases testosterone. Skin on my face seems the same, spots usually on the back of my neck or back of head/back, which is similar to what I have read about steroid users getting "backne"

This is the stuff

Amount per 3 capsule serving:
Zinc (as zinc l-methionine): 30 mg (300%*)
Magnesium (as magnesium citrate): 450 mg (120%*)
Vitamin B6 (as pyrodoxine hydrochloride): 11 mg (750% *)
Copper (as copper amino acid chelate): (600 mcg *)

http://www.myprotein.com/uk/products/zinc_and_magnesium

Was reading this about ZMA having no effect on test, but something hormonal is definitely happening, I did not had acne in years until I took it.
http://www.ergo-log.com/zma.html

and another saying zinc does have an effect!
http://www.ergo-log.com/zincgluconatetest.html

metamorphosis

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

That's about average. No mention of potency though, anything on the bottle. Usually it's 150mg for 8 sprays.

Can't check from where I am - directions say 5-10 sprays morning and night

Red Cortina wrote: »

@ UL Regarding instructions on the bottle, does it give directions on where exactly on the body it should be used? ie behind knees or on soles of feet??

Anywhere, even on gums too. I have been putting it all over my legs, calfs, hams, quads everynight before bed

rubadub

Red Cortina wrote: »

ie behind knees or on soles of feet??

I would have thought not the soles of the feet, as the skin would be quite thick so it would be hard to absorb it. Like you can take nicotine microtablets sub-lingually (under the tongue) and it absorbs through the thin membranes very quickly. Behind the knees would make more sense as it is probably thin.

The idea of witches riding broomsticks and flying came about from them making potions/salves from the likes of henbane and mandrake which are hallucinogenic herbs, then they would spread it on a bit of wood and apply it to... -well an area with thin membranes where it was readily absorbed .

The "broom" bit was actually more herbs tied to the front of the broom which were burned and the smoke inhaled, so in more authentic drawings you will always see the "broom" in front of them. The drugs would knock them out and they would dream of flying while in that state.

-Of course these thin membrane areas could be prone to adverse reactions so best stick with what the bottle says! The upperside of the feet is probably a more likely spot.

El_Dangeroso

rubadub wrote: »

I have heard zinc increases testosterone. Skin on my face seems the same, spots usually on the back of my neck or back of head/back, which is similar to what I have read about steroid users getting "backne"

This is the stuff

http://www.myprotein.com/uk/products/zinc_and_magnesium

Was reading this about ZMA having no effect on test, but something hormonal is definitely happening, I did not had acne in years until I took it.
http://www.ergo-log.com/zma.html

and another saying zinc does have an effect!
http://www.ergo-log.com/zincgluconatetest.html

First study is really well designed, randomised and on humans, second study's just on rats, I know which one I'd rely on.

Plus second study is 3mg/Kg body weight, on me that would be over 150mg of zinc! That's loads, most people don't need more than 25mg. There have been some old people who died of copper deficiency due to large amounts of zinc in the adhesive of their dentures, so I would not go messing with high-dose zinc. 20mg is more than enough, probably less if you eat any amount of red meat or one oyster.

I still can't track down a good reason ZMA would cause acne, it's bugging me!