Learner permit holders flouting the law.

TestTransmission

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Agree in the sense that I can see where you're coming from, but Drink driving is a fair bit away from learner drivers. I've been driving since January this year, bought my car in May and garaged it until July while completing some work on it. I'm not gonna lie and say I have the cleanest of clean driving records in my 4 months driving, but I can honestly say I'm competent and haven't a single problem coping in any condition so far. I just don't see the fairness in putting such a burden on us drivers who can go about our business carefully and competently, because from my experience I can already see I'm a much better driver than most out there (especially in car parks and motorways/national primary roads/town!), yet they have a full license and I don't. I failed my first driving test by a tiny bit, and honestly didn't and couldn't see where the 'tester' got these marks, but oh well.

I'm sure if the tests were conducted fairly and ubiased, a lot of the so called L-platers would have that coveted pink license! Most of you out there got it for free anyway just because it so happened that you could, so why make it hard on us?

You really dont deserve to be ranting here,you couldnt even pass the most basic driving test

murphym7

I drove around on a provisional license, like my wife, for years. Total lazziness. But we were driving around within the accepted practice of what was acceptable at the time. Dempsey came out and said get your bloddy license are we will enforce the law, fair enough we both went away did our tests and became legal. It is no longer acceptable to drive aroud like we did before so you should not do it. Simple enough concept to grasp I think.

jhegarty

R.O.R wrote: »

I hope the insurance companies change their stance and decline to cover unlicenced drivers. I'm sure the thought of getting caught driving with no insurance would be a much greater deterrent than the minor possibility of a fine and 1 point.

Would you still think that was a good idea if one of them hit you ?

As you are left paying your own medial bills because they are uninsured.

We need more people insured, not less.

snowman707

Theanswers wrote: »

I drove with a learners permit for nearly 8 months. Not a word said, why wouldnt i drive alone? Before i got the permit i was learned to drive vechicles on a private lane (gears etc).
I drove constanly without a full driver, took it slow. Practised my driving skills... This is what the vast majority of people do. Guards do not care, they understand the law is abit ridiculous as they have a abit of what we in the west call "cop on"... They make a sensible decesion. However if the learner driver was messing, then possibly it should be dealt with. But if the driver is just going about the business causing no harm to anyone then they should be let on their way. Which is what happens 99% of the time.
The insurance companies also cover you in a accident, so you have no worries. Plus i have no option but to drive on my own, i live in the rural west of this country. There is NO dart, NO Luas, NO Bus transport basically. once every three hours or so, and theirs a twenty minaute walk involved, the last bus is at 7pm and usually they dont even stop!! taxi costs €28 from town. How is that cheap? We have no other option. I'm glad though, at least guards have some "cop" and no matter what rules they bring into force in Dublin they will not be enforced in the rest of the country unless they are actually sensible! I now have a full license, not that i needed it, only needed it so i could drive in Europe.

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Henry, do you propose that I stop driving which would then leave me stumped as to how I'd get to school 15 miles away with no viable bus connection, I could no longer get to my gf on the other side of the city without at least 2 hours free to put up with busses and town, and then various other activities? I'm not causing anyone harm, I'm going about my business in such a manner that is safe and of no direct harm to you. have you ever been hit by a learner permit holder, or have you ever even held one?

cloneslad wrote: »

I'm guilty of driving with a learners license without a full licensed driver beside me.

I have been studying for my degree, living and working in asia then back in studying for my masters degree ever since I was the legal age to drive and I could not even afford a car anyway.

I am now 25 and have my own car which is fully taxed, insured and NCT'd until september 2011 and I drive very carefully, never go over the speed limit, keep my lights on during the day and have never driven on the motorway and don't even drink, let alone drink and drive. when possible I get lifts with friends rather than drive myself or else get a full licensed driver next to me.

I would take my test tomorrow if I could but I'm waiting on a date for my full test to be given to me. I had to wait 6 months before I could do it (the 6 months are up next week) I really hope to get it sorted out asap because I would like to be driving 100% legally.

I know it's still illegal and I can't think that I should be an exception to the rule, but there are a lot of full licensed drivers out there who drive like maniacs pushing up insurance premiums more than people like me.

Midnight_EG wrote: »

I'm going asleep, I have school in a few hours, in which I'm gonna drive too, I expect a bashing from Henry when I get home or check my emails in school


night for those that followed me

I haven't read through all the posts here but the first thought that comes to mind are those people who constantly give out about L drivers , Are they parents theirselves? Do they live in rural areas with no public services.

I am a parent in such circumstances am presently the youngest of my 4 kids is awaiting his driving test. Yes all of mine have driven unaccompanied , but not before they had each got at least 5 lessons and not before I was happy to allow them out on their own.They were always covered by insurance contrary to what is stated by some "experts" in other threads in this forum.their vehicles were always taxed and road worthy.They always had their L plates displayed,

I came across 4 cars off the road due to ice yesterday morning, no L plated that I could see. crossing from Birdhill to Killaloe I had to use all my driving ability to avoid a 09 D silver audi who lost it while overtaking on a continuos white line. Doubt if he was a driver

In this area the gardai generally don't bother with the drivers going to college, work, or sports etc., and I respect them for this however they have cleaned up the uninsured boy racer idiots who are are now almost non existent

Give the youth a chance it is tough enough going for them, and for their parents. I am far more concerned about tailgaters, idiots who drive bmw and passats , for some reasons all those models in this area came without indicators. I could go on and on.

Mol an oige agus thiocfaid si

R.O.R

jhegarty wrote: »

Would you still think that was a good idea if one of them hit you ?

As you are left paying your own medial bills because they are uninsured.

We need more people insured, not less.

No, because then I'd have to claim from the fund for uninsured drivers.

But something needs to be done. The situation where people are chancing it because there is a very little chance of getting caught, and even if they are caught it's only a financial penalty, needs to change.

Henry Ford III

snowman707 wrote: »

....I am a parent in such circumstances am presently the youngest of my 4 kids is awaiting his driving test. Yes all of mine have driven unaccompanied , but not before they had each got at least 5 lessons and not before I was happy to allow them out on their own.They were always covered by insurance contrary to what is stated by some "experts" in other threads in this forum.their vehicles were always taxed and road worthy.They always had their L plates displayed...

Who gave you the authority to decide who could drive unaccompanied?

Henry Ford III

Midnight_EG wrote: »

+1. Driving a car is a privilege, and shouldn't be abused, without reference to this topic.

It's a privilege you haven't earned though. That's the point here. You are in no position to decide if you are a competant driver.

Henry Ford III

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Henry, do you propose that I stop driving which would then leave me stumped as to how I'd get to school 15 miles away with no viable bus connection, I could no longer get to my gf on the other side of the city without at least 2 hours free to put up with busses and town, and then various other activities? I'm not causing anyone harm, I'm going about my business in such a manner that is safe and of no direct harm to you. have you ever been hit by a learner permit holder, or have you ever even held one?

Yes. Because it's illegal. Your circumstances in this instance are totally irrelevant.

You cannot make the decison or judgement on whether you are a competant driver.

Why not just pass the test?

jhegarty

R.O.R wrote: »

No, because then I'd have to claim from the fund for uninsured drivers.

But something needs to be done. The situation where people are chancing it because there is a very little chance of getting caught, and even if they are caught it's only a financial penalty, needs to change.

Because that fund is paid for by me , and all the other insured drivers on here.

bad2dabone

Hi lads,

I'm teaching my mother how to drive at the moment and I leave the L plates up on my car, I've often been in front of garda cars and I've seen other cars with L plates up in front of garda cars etc and not a word has been said.

So if the police are unwilling to enforce the laws and the insurance co's honor the claims then theres no disincentive against people driving who haven't passed their tests.

Irregardless of the legality, if the police don't enforce it people won't obey it.

R.O.R

jhegarty wrote: »

Because that fund is paid for by me , and all the other insured drivers on here.

I don't think we are in any disagreement that we need to get, and keep, uninsured drivers off our roads. We also need to get unlicenced drivers off the road.

If enforcement isn't the deterrent it should be, then other options need to be looked in to.

jhegarty

jhegarty wrote: »

Then 6 months of lessons (minimum 26 hours of professional lessons). Then a driving test on a date you received the day of your first lesson. If you fail then back for 10 more lessons, then try again.

I completely disagree with this being forced on everybody. I was well able to drive years before I could get a license , I drove for a few months on a provisional and got 2 lessons, one a few weeks before the test and another a few days before mainly to learn the route. I passed with almost a perfect test as I expected so how would it have been fair to force over 1000 euro of extra expense on me?

You should be given at least one chance at the test before being imposed with such a financial burden.

Shires

MagicMarker wrote: »

They could at least make an effort, driving down the M50 with L plates up is just lazy.

You're assuming that all those L-plated cages contain learner drivers. I regularly drive a car with L plates and I have a driving license. Bothersome?

bad2dabone

R.O.R wrote: »

If enforcement isn't the deterrent it should be, then other options need to be looked in to.

unfortunately enforcement isnt a deterrent - because there is no enforcement

generally you can get your test date within 8 to 10 weeks of applying,
and you should be capable of passing it, its not exactly a comprehensive test!

however if SGS were still around you could probably get your test within 2 weeks and therefore no one could have an excuse for driving without a licence.

jimmyw

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Agree in the sense that I can see where you're coming from, but Drink driving is a fair bit away from learner drivers. I've been driving since January this year, bought my car in May and garaged it until July while completing some work on it. I'm not gonna lie and say I have the cleanest of clean driving records in my 4 months driving, but I can honestly say I'm competent and haven't a single problem coping in any condition so far. I just don't see the fairness in putting such a burden on us drivers who can go about our business carefully and competently, because from my experience I can already see I'm a much better driver than most out there (especially in car parks and motorways/national primary roads/town!), yet they have a full license and I don't. I failed my first driving test by a tiny bit, and honestly didn't and couldn't see where the 'tester' got these marks, but oh well.

I'm sure if the tests were conducted fairly and ubiased, a lot of the so called L-platers would have that coveted pink license! Most of you out there got it for free anyway just because it so happened that you could, so why make it hard on us?

To reference the drink driving, I have an experience on this, High horsers stop here because I didn't down 10 pints and blew off down the road. I had a single bottle of beer before I was told I was needed in my house for an 'emergency' which I won't go into detail over. Now clearly I was under the limit, but even in the 2 mins I was driving I could tell the little effect it had on me, and made me wonder why anyone would even attempt it at 5 or more pints, bottles even. It's just so many worlds apart from learners prowling the streets, and should never be compared to each other.





Sorry for the rambling, I've never actually done it on motors :rolleyes:

That amnesty was back in 1979, I think most full licence holders by now have done a test, so your comment is a bit unfair. That was wrong back then cause there are people in my area who got it this way and they are not good drivers despite driving for years. One fella always drives up peoples h**e but he is always in a hurry though.I sympathize with learners who have to drive to work especially given the current jobs situation. Maybe there should be an amnesty for them just for work purposes and conditions etc and proof of some kind, just a thought!.

Henry Ford III

Shires wrote: »

You're assuming that all those L-plated cages contain learner drivers. I regularly drive a car with L plates and I have a driving license. Bothersome?

Maybe. It's certainly lazy however, and potentially confusing to the authorities.

antomorro-sei

Is this thread just a big Wind Up to you Henry? Just out of interest...

the_syco

Berty wrote: »

This morning I was parked up doing some paperwork when a learner skidded sideways from an estate obviously not used to ice.

As you are not taught to drive on ice, you'll get a few full licensed drives doing the same.

The amount of f*ktards that can't indicate in roundabouts is unbelievable. And most of them would be fully licensed drives...

Henry Ford III

antomorro-sei wrote: »

Is this thread just a big Wind Up to you Henry? Just out of interest...

No it's not.

Third_Echelon

I got my first provisional when I was 17. Took about 6 or 7 lessons at the time. Drove accompanied with a licensed driver (my mum) to school in the mornings and evenings and during the summers drove to work and back accompanied.

At that age, there was no way I was going to go out on my own. Any time there was a chance to drive, e.g. going to shops, mass, school whatever it was, I asked to drive so I could get my experience up.

Then when college came around, I was only really home at weekends, so I didn't have the need or could afford to help with insurance etc. First job, I moved into Dublin city centre, so again no need for a car. Basically I had a break of 7 or 8 years with little or no driving before I needed to buy a car again (about 2 years ago).

I had to apply for my provisional again. A month or so after that I applied for the test. I bought a car in the January and had my test in May, so I suppose I was technically breaking the law for 5 months, but I did have road experience. I passed first time. My test was a day over the 6 months I had to wait from getting provisonal to being tested.

I did have the road experience, but circumstances dictated a pretty big gap in my driving time. When I passed the test I was quite surprised with how easy it was to pass.... I was genuinely shocked!

I see it on our roads every day.. People do not know the rules of the road. All I was asked was to dictate what a few signs said on a sheet of paper. Where did the oil go in my car and drive around for a while! This is not a full and proper test.

In my opinion we need a 4 part test. After part 1 you become a "restricted driver", like they have in the UK. After parts 2, 3 and 4 you get your full license:

Part 1 - This would be the same as our current drivers test. Theory test followed by rules of the road and the drive to prove your ability and knowledge on the road.

Part 2 - Motorway and Dual-carraige-way driving. Probably one of my biggest issues with Irish drivers is our inability to properly use a motorway or multi-lane carraige-way. People seem to think that they can constantly drive at a faster pace in the overtaking lane than the cars in the driving lane and not get back into the driving lane at all! It's for overtaking! That is it!

Part 3 - Night time driving. As others have mentioned, this is another area where Irish drivers are not confident. Anything outside normal bright conditions and a lot of drivers are in trouble. The amount of times I have met drivers on the road crawling along in the dark at very low speeds (which is also dangerous) is ridiculous. Not being able to drive without full beams on at all times...

Part 4 - Wet/Icy Driving. It rains a lot in Ireland. Surely we should teach our drivers how to drive in the wet? How to try and control aqua-planing? Driving with dipped lights on in wet/overcast conditions... Keeping distance.. Whenever we get a bit of ice or snow, the country's highways come to a standstill. How to control a car in a skid (ice, gravel, grass etc)... I remember last February when we had that week of snow. I lost count of the amount of cars I saw in ditches (particularly rear wheel drive cars)..


What I have suggested mightn't be the best plan in the world, but it would certainly make our drivers a lot more compitent and confident.

Perhaps after part 1 you become "restricted", full license after part 2, then parts 3 and 4 would get you extra money off your insurance premium? Something like that anyway... Something has to be done!

Shires

Third_Echelon wrote: »

What I have suggested mightn't be the best plan in the world, but it would certainly make our drivers a lot more compitent and confident.

While I don't necessarily agree with everything you've written, I applaud your train of thought. There's the kind of activity that the RSA and DOT should be engaged in, rather than shooting the 7 barreled ducks of instant gratification.

While we're building a wish list, here's something I'd really like to see: mandatory re-tests every N years, or cheerio license. Anything that helps to put Bridey McDawdler or Terry Tailgaiter off the road has to be a good thing.

Right now it seems like Gaybo relies on mother nature to provide the odd spot of black ice and snow to purge our roads of shyte drivers.

Right so, I'm off out for a spin.

MyaP

Third_Echelon wrote: »

I got my first provisional when I was 17. Took about 6 or 7 lessons at the time. Drove accompanied with a licensed driver (my mum) to school in the mornings and evenings and during the summers drove to work and back accompanied.

At that age, there was no way I was going to go out on my own. Any time there was a chance to drive, e.g. going to shops, mass, school whatever it was, I asked to drive so I could get my experience up.

Then when college came around, I was only really home at weekends, so I didn't have the need or could afford to help with insurance etc. First job, I moved into Dublin city centre, so again no need for a car. Basically I had a break of 7 or 8 years with little or no driving before I needed to buy a car again (about 2 years ago).

I had to apply for my provisional again. A month or so after that I applied for the test. I bought a car in the January and had my test in May, so I suppose I was technically breaking the law for 5 months, but I did have road experience. I passed first time. My test was a day over the 6 months I had to wait from getting provisonal to being tested.

I did have the road experience, but circumstances dictated a pretty big gap in my driving time. When I passed the test I was quite surprised with how easy it was to pass.... I was genuinely shocked!

I see it on our roads every day.. People do not know the rules of the road. All I was asked was to dictate what a few signs said on a sheet of paper. Where did the oil go in my car and drive around for a while! This is not a full and proper test.

In my opinion we need a 4 part test. After part 1 you become a "restricted driver", like they have in the UK. After parts 2, 3 and 4 you get your full license:

Part 1 - This would be the same as our current drivers test. Theory test followed by rules of the road and the drive to prove your ability and knowledge on the road.

Part 2 - Motorway and Dual-carraige-way driving. Probably one of my biggest issues with Irish drivers is our inability to properly use a motorway or multi-lane carraige-way. People seem to think that they can constantly drive at a faster pace in the overtaking lane than the cars in the driving lane and not get back into the driving lane at all! It's for overtaking! That is it!

Part 3 - Night time driving. As others have mentioned, this is another area where Irish drivers are not confident. Anything outside normal bright conditions and a lot of drivers are in trouble. The amount of times I have met drivers on the road crawling along in the dark at very low speeds (which is also dangerous) is ridiculous. Not being able to drive without full beams on at all times...

Part 4 - Wet/Icy Driving. It rains a lot in Ireland. Surely we should teach our drivers how to drive in the wet? How to try and control aqua-planing? Driving with dipped lights on in wet/overcast conditions... Keeping distance.. Whenever we get a bit of ice or snow, the country's highways come to a standstill. How to control a car in a skid (ice, gravel, grass etc)... I remember last February when we had that week of snow. I lost count of the amount of cars I saw in ditches (particularly rear wheel drive cars)..


What I have suggested mightn't be the best plan in the world, but it would certainly make our drivers a lot more compitent and confident.

Perhaps after part 1 you become "restricted", full license after part 2, then parts 3 and 4 would get you extra money off your insurance premium? Something like that anyway... Something has to be done!

I have got to agree with this about the 4 part test. I just recently passed my driving test at the first go and I only started learning to drive in June so my expierence on the road is limited.

Sometimes the accompanied drivers I had with me were giving me the wrong instructions for e.g. when to go into the yellow box and don't even let me get started on drivers at roundabouts!!! It was so frustrating as you would presume they were correct but they weren't. That said some licensed drivers did know what they were talking about

Since the weather conditions have got bad I have been terrified to go driving on icy roads as I have no expierence of it so the car is sitting outside the house!! I don't think the driving test is ideal. My experience so far has been that the worst drivers I have seen on the roads have been fully licensed drivers for e.g. I was coming up to lights a good bit back and they turned amber. I would have really had to floor it to make it through the lights so I went to stop with plenty of space. The car behind me with no L plates up pulls out from behind me (at this stage the lights are red) and goes flying through the lights with other cars and a cyclist in the junction!! Crazinesss!!

ardmacha

While we're building a wish list, here's something I'd really like to see: mandatory re-tests every N years, or cheerio license.

There is no reason not to introduce at least a theory test on the current rules of the road every 10 years when your licence is renewed.

cloneslad

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Man, take into account the financial deficit you could incur on people with this! Taking the average cost of a lesson at ~€40, bare minimum already sets you back €1,040, then €80 on a test, so €1,120, and if you fail another €480 on top and recurring until you pass?

jhegarty wrote: »

Drop in the ocean compared to buying , taxing and insuring even the cheapest car.

You're off your head. When you done your test, if it was more than a few years ago you paid less than half what we have to pay now for the test and lessons were cheaper then too.

If you want these minimum number of lessons brought in then lets make everyone who has held a license for 5 years (if less, wait till the hit the 5 year mark) do the exact same thing because they haven't had the lessons therefore they aren't able to drive to your high standard of expectations.

Would you be happy then if you had to spend over €1000 to do your test? possibly €1500 if you mess up the first time?


/ends rant

bad2dabone

ardmacha wrote: »

There is no reason not to introduce at least a theory test on the current rules of the road every 10 years when your licence is renewed.

i couldnt agree more with this.

there's a lot, and awful lot of complacent drivers out there who have their licence and drive like crap. Habits, attitudes, and skills all need to be tested every X number of years imo.

Just like the NCT.

What's that old saying, the most important nut in the car is the one behind the wheel

congo_90

congo_90 wrote: »

Can anyone here honestly say they never drove un-accompanied on a learner permit/ provisional licence?

Yes. Not only that, but I wouldn't let my best friend be my full-licence companion because she didn't yet have her licence 2 years.
And it annoyed the hell out of me to see apparent learners flouting it left right and centre!

bad2dabone

that's another thing about the whole enforcement thing, if the guards really wanted to keep unaccompanied learners off the roads, why don't they throw the occasional checkpoint up near test centres ? I live near one and people walk out after failing their test and drive off, its a bit ridiculous after being told that you're unqualified to drive by the state you're then allowed to drive off with no consequences. Funny.

Midnight_EG

jackncoke wrote: »

You really dont deserve to be ranting here,you couldnt even pass the most basic driving test

I try to attain a full education, to the best of my ability, I worked for the money which I used to buy a fully functioning car and manage to upkeep it, how didn't I earn it?

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's a privilege you haven't earned though. That's the point here. You are in no position to decide if you are a competant driver.

Refer to above.

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Yes. Because it's illegal. Your circumstances in this instance are totally irrelevant.

You cannot make the decison or judgement on whether you are a competant driver.

Why not just pass the test?

Guarentee if you were in my position you'd be saying the same thing, and don't say you wouldn't cos you can't exactly say that you wouldn't.

And surely I know I'm a competent driver after 3 instructors told me so, and various other people, just the tester on the day didn't seem to agree?

Try being an 18 year old male in a Honda Civic trying to pass a standardized driving test, then come back to me about hardship and passing the test!

jimmyw wrote: »

That amnesty was back in 1979, I think most full licence holders by now have done a test, so your comment is a bit unfair. That was wrong back then cause there are people in my area who got it this way and they are not good drivers despite driving for years. One fella always drives up peoples h**e but he is always in a hurry though.I sympathize with learners who have to drive to work especially given the current jobs situation. Maybe there should be an amnesty for them just for work purposes and conditions etc and proof of some kind, just a thought!.

Spose, I was wrong to assume it, but still, you got the main point.

Henry Ford III

I wondered when the leaving cert. would arrive

The only person whose opinion is of any value is the tester. You shouldn't be flouting the law daily, and you deserve to be caught and prosecuted.

TestTransmission

Midnight_EG wrote: »

I try to attain a full education, to the best of my ability, I worked for the money which I used to buy a fully functioning car and manage to upkeep it, how didn't I earn it?

Refer to above.

Guarentee if you were in my position you'd be saying the same thing, and don't say you wouldn't cos you can't exactly say that you wouldn't.

And surely I know I'm a competent driver after 3 instructors told me so, and various other people, just the tester on the day didn't seem to agree?

Try being an 18 year old male in a Honda Civic trying to pass a standardized driving test, then come back to me about hardship and passing the test!


Spose, I was wrong to assume it, but still, you got the main point.

Life is tough,get used to it.

peanuthead

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Seems this is an everyday and widespread event.

I think they are displaying a basic contempt for the law, and should be dealt with by the authorities, and penalised as necessary.

I've no doubt they are a factor in driving up insurance premiums.

Any views.

p.s. I'll make no apology for the high horse

I do agree with you. Partially.

There are a huge amount of learner drivers on our roads who are in fact better drivers than full licence holders.
There are a lot of pink licence holders who think that passing their test means they're king or queen of the road, and they no longer have to abide by certain rules, or can at least bend them a little. But its okay, because although they may be doing something risky, they are "aware of it" and that makes all the difference :rolleyes:

Another thing I would like to point out. As a learner I used to drive around without my L's because I felt that they had the opposite of the desired effect when they were up. Some guy nearly crashed into me trying to overtake me once - he hadn't spotted the island in the middle of the road and came back in almost on top of me. Now I wasn't speeding but I wasn't going slow. A complete mental attitude when people see the L's.

The chances are that insurance premiums are getting higher because of the recent surge in robberies, I should know my car was targeted only last week.
Also, the amount of lunatic young males that are on the road is phenomenal - I've never been almost taken off the road as much as I have in the last 4 months.

EDIT: And can I just point out that I always had a full licence holder in the car with me. It wasn't to do with the law tbh, that wasn't even being enforced when I was learning, but I just felt I needed that. In hindsight I can completely understand the reason behind it. It's not to restrict you, it's to make you better. And it does. I learned more from having my OH in the car with me than I did with my instructor, max you will take is 10 lessons, you honestly think that's enough??

daveharnett

bad2dabone wrote: »

that's another thing about the whole enforcement thing, if the guards really wanted to keep unaccompanied learners off the roads, why don't they throw the occasional checkpoint up near test centres ? I live near one and people walk out after failing their test and drive off, its a bit ridiculous after being told that you're unqualified to drive by the state you're then allowed to drive off with no consequences. Funny.

AFAIK, the gardai have been told not to enforce ("use discretion") by their political bosses. Basically, FF are are unpopular enough without putting all of their electorate's children off the road.

ronbyrne2005

What about the OAPs who never passed test in their lives? One old neighbour of mine will only take left turns and never right if it can be avoided. This means she goes on big long anticlockwise routes around our neighbourhood to avoid right turns. MAd.

ardmacha

What about the OAPs who never passed test in their lives? One old neighbour of mine will only take left turns and never right if it can be avoided. This means she goes on big long anticlockwise routes around our neighbourhood to avoid right turns.

Such people are not the best drivers, but have an awareness of their limitations. Many L drivers (and others) are limited drivers, but have little awareness of it.

Midnight_EG

I find it very funny how most of you here never had to try and put with all this learner permit shit, at least not to the limits we have in this day and age, you don't know what it's like being burdened like this!

Maybe go out in your car some day with L plates up and see if you get stopped by the guards? If they ask why they're up, of course you can simply say you're teaching someone to drive. But just see what it's like. If you don't get stopped, all's well and good that means your driving is fine to an extent. Now transfer exactly everything you saw and did to our mindset, you'll see the reasons we drive this way.

Henry Ford III

Midnight_EG wrote: »

I find it very funny how most of you here never had to try and put with all this learner permit shit, at least not to the limits we have in this day and age, you don't know what it's like being burdened like this!

Maybe go out in your car some day with L plates up and see if you get stopped by the guards? If they ask why they're up, of course you can simply say you're teaching someone to drive. But just see what it's like. If you don't get stopped, all's well and good that means your driving is fine to an extent. Now transfer exactly everything you saw and did to our mindset, you'll see the reasons we drive this way.

That's absolutely irrelevant. It's the law. Deal with it, or it'll deal with you ultimately.

What's happened in the past is simply history.

Midnight_EG

And gives people totally different mindsets, their driving head stays in the past while their arrogant head stays in the present!

Henry Ford III

Midnight_EG wrote: »

And gives people totally different mindsets, their driving head stays in the past while their arrogant head stays in the present!

Let's try to stay on topic.

Midnight_EG

Oh did I make some sense to you? Thanks

bad2dabone

midnight EG you know in a way i can sympathise with you.

I passed my test in 1995 when I was 17, first time, tester was an absolute sh1t, but I did a decent drive on the day. Back then I would not have been able to afford insurance on a provisional licence so I just paid for like 20 lessons and some pre tests, probably 30 hours in total. My insurance, when i passed, was 2700punts (about 3,500euro) on an old 1.1ltr Pug 106. I dont think I was being quoted on a provisional and my dad wouldnt put me on his insurance.

the fact is that it would have been just as illegal then to drive on my provisional unaccompanied, as it is for you to do it today.

but don't worry about it, you'll not get into trouble unless you drive like a moron and attract the attention of the police. :pac:

Midnight_EG

bad2dabone wrote: »

midnight EG you know in a way i can sympathise with you.

I passed my test in 1995 when I was 17, first time, tester was an absolute sh1t, but I did a decent drive on the day. Back then I would not have been able to afford insurance on a provisional licence so I just paid for like 20 lessons and some pre tests, probably 30 hours in total. My insurance, when i passed, was 2700punts (about 3,500euro) on an old 1.1ltr Pug 106. I dont think I was being quoted on a provisional and my dad wouldnt put me on his insurance.

the fact is that it would have been just as illegal then to drive on my provisional unaccompanied, as it is for you to do it today.

but don't worry about it, you'll not get into trouble unless you drive like a moron and attract the attention of the police. :pac:

First of all, thank you, one of the only people that do agree...in some sense.

Insurance, now that's a biggy, I pay €1900 a year for me to be insured, if I so happen to be in a crash, the other guy has some safety in the knowledge I'm insured and he can get his payment, so most are happy.

Who am I harming exactly? NOBODY!

copeyhagen

i see a lot more dangerous driving from non leaners than i do from learners. how some of these people got their test i will never know

Midnight_EG

copeyhagen wrote: »

i see a lot more dangerous driving from non leaners than i do from learners. how some of these people got their test i will never know

Thank you, another person with sense.

bad2dabone

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Who am I harming exactly? NOBODY!

on the other hand....

why Henry is so annoyed (and I see his point too) is
A) what you're doing is illegal
and
someone who's job it is to make judgement as to the quality of your
driving has said that your driving is not up to the required standard

So either the tester was
A) incompetent
took a dislike to you personally / failed you cos you are 18 and male
c) its all a money racket and the RSA fail a certain amount of people

or........

D) your driving standard needs to improve

If I was you mate, I'ld go find an ADI guy, book a lesson, tell him you
need him to be 100% honest about your driving, not massage your ego.
Go spend some time practicing this technique
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg4V8XJievw
look on youtube for advanced techniques etc and really work on improving your skills.

Don't take what i'm saying personally (your driving is probably better than most people out there but that's not saying much as there are loads of bad drivers) just use the frustration you're feeling and channel it into becoming a better driver.

When I was 20 I did an advanced course (I've done a few since) and my driving was so much improved after it you wouldnt believe.

After you Pass your test you can then join us here on the High Horse

Midnight_EG

bad2dabone wrote: »

on the other hand....

why Henry is so annoyed (and I see his point too) is
A) what you're doing is illegal
and
someone who's job it is to make judgement as to the quality of your
driving has said that your driving is not up to the required standard

So either the tester was
A) incompetent
took a dislike to you personally / failed you cos you are 18 and male
c) its all a money racket and the RSA fail a certain amount of people

or........

D) your driving standard needs to improve

If I was you mate, I'ld go find an ADI guy, book a lesson, tell him you
need him to be 100% honest about your driving, not massage your ego.
Go spend some time practicing this technique
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg4V8XJievw
look on youtube for advanced techniques etc and really work on improving your skills.

Don't take what i'm saying personally (your driving is probably better than most people out there but that's not saying much as there are loads of bad drivers) just use the frustration you're feeling and channel it into becoming a better driver.

When I was 20 I did an advanced course (I've done a few since) and my driving was so much improved after it you wouldnt believe.

After you Pass your test you can then join us here on the High Horse

Definetly parts two and three tbh, and I tried doing it in my Civic too, but that's only to prove a point tbh.

On the subject of driving better, I had a go of a mates Glanza today...but not until he had finished, and in all truth I was shit scared when he was driving cos he can't handle bloody turbo! All changed when I got to be the pilot and held her together, felt so much safer.

And, I've seen all them, very hard to get the commentary working, it seems to work better on the country roads where there's fook all to talk about :P

Henry Ford III

I'm not annoyed.

I'm just still puzzled why anyone holding a learner permit can simply judge their own driving to be up to standard and head off openly flouting the law. They have no right to do so. It doesn't matter where they live, or what alternatives are available.

What others do is for another topic/thread. Driving standards are low btw.

Henry Ford III

Midnight_EG wrote: »

...On the subject of driving better, I had a go of a mates Glanza today...but not until he had finished, and in all truth I was shit scared when he was driving cos he can't handle bloody turbo! All changed when I got to be the pilot and held her together, felt so much safer.:P

How were you insured on that?

Midnight_EG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I'm not annoyed.

I'm just still puzzled why anyone holding a learner permit can simply judge their own driving to be up to standard and head off openly flouting the law. They have no right to do so. It doesn't matter where they live, or what alternatives are available.

What others do is for another topic/thread. Driving standards are low btw.

I can relate with this one post of yours, cos it seems to be that you're actually thinking about it a bit now, and maybe even trying to relate to the learners?

But anyway, on to your post.

Like I said, I got told by many a people that my driving was that little bit better than most on the roads, I've even had friends say they trust me more than their mams or dads :eek:

Midnight_EG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

How were you insured on that?

Private land

jimmyw

Look! people who got their licence for free have no right to lecture to anyone on how to drive cause most of these are not good themselves but that's not the issue here. By their very nature and inexperience learners should/are generally cautious and careful on the roads, its the chavs/boy racers that are the danger trying to show off to their mates and GFs you have to watch. For your own sakes you should try as much as possible to not drive unaccompanied. I am driving for 9 years on a full licence and I am still learning so full licence holders are still learners to a degree.