Learner permit holders flouting the law.

Henry Ford III

Midnight_EG wrote: »

In my original statement, I said that I hardly have the cleanest of records, so I am in no way suggesting I'm perfect, which is definetly not the message you convey in your statement.

You ARE trying to tell me to be perfect!

Incorrect. If you are trying to fudge the subject by trying to get me argue, you'll be dissapointed.

The only thing I'm saying is that you habitually break the law.

Midnight_EG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Incorrect. If you are trying to fudge the subject by trying to get me argue, you'll be dissapointed.

The only thing I'm saying is that you habitually break the law.

Are you just refusing to accept that I'm right and I'm not the only person to say this?


And...again with the legal stuff....seriously....come up witha better argument....

pistolpetes11

bad2dabone wrote: »

I'm sure the legislation could be altered so as a court appearance wasn't necessary. It's pretty open and shut
- was X driving the vehicle? Yes
- Does X have a licence? No
Fine 250 euro pay within a month or you're in Court.

Much like a speeding fine.

I agree with you there ,

I have alot of mates who are Guards and was mentioning this post tonight when playing ball with them tonight.

Most of them are of the opinion that its a law where the Guard is allowed to use his own discretion and that they very very rarely enforce it. As one of the lads said to me " there is far more evil on the road lad"

Average-Ro

How did you go about getting your licence Henry? Did you get a provisional and have a fully licenced driver with you at all times?

Midnight_EG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Incorrect. If you are trying to fudge the subject by trying to get me argue, you'll be dissapointed.

The only thing I'm saying is that you habitually break the law.

And did you really start this thread expecting everybody to be civil and agree with you?

pistolpetes11

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's no wind up.

Read the start of the thread please. I make no excuse for the high horse.

Well then ,

If you are without sin , feel free to Judge others, if not then dont

Henry Ford III

It's a legal issue though, so mention of the law, and the habitual, feckless, and casual breaking of it is exactly the point.

Do you accept that what you've already admitted to doing is illegal and therefore wrong Midnight EG?

Midnight_EG

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

Well then ,

If you are without sin , feel free to Judge others, if not then dont

But wait, you have to be perfect to do it!

bad2dabone

Average-Ro wrote: »

From what I've seen so far, Learner's are much more cautious on the roads than full licenced drivers.

I'm not disagreeing with you there man, as I said to midnight, the standard of driving on our roads is poor and as i said elsewhere on the thread, those with licences should be retested every few years to keep standards high.
(its in all of our interests that we're all at a good standard of driving).

Have you stopped to think that maybe this is why the law isn't upheld strictly?

I haven't actually. Because its absurd, to be honest. if you have not passed a test of competency then you are not entitled to drive unaccompanied under the law. The reasons why this law is not enforced fully in my opinion:
- its a hassle for the guards to enforce
- some decent minded guards dont want to lump a potential thousand euro fine on some poor 18 year old
- historically in this country people have driven while unlicensed so theres a culture of it
- the amendments to the law pissed off the Gardai and they're not enforcing it as a result (http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/motoring/desperate-uturn-may-wreck-brave-new-road-safety-plans-1206151.html)

Note I'm not having a go at you guys, hell it ain't a crime if you don't get caught right

Midnight_EG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's a legal issue though, so mention of the law, and the habitual, feckless, and casual breaking of it is exactly the point.

Do you accept that what you've already admitted to doing is illegal and therefore wrong Midnight EG?

Can you please come up with an argument other than the overused one you've got at the moment? It's getting really tiring reading law every 2 minutes and it really isn't helping out my vocab while I'm doing my leaving cert. Come on, think of the people doing the biggest exam of their lives!

Henry Ford III

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

Well then ,

If you are without sin , feel free to Judge others, if not then dont

Sorry but I'm not biting.

Some folk have admitted here to flouting the law (the subject matter of the thread).

Henry Ford III

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Can you please come up with an argument other than the overused one you've got at the moment? It's getting really tiring reading law every 2 minutes and it really isn't helping out my vocab while I'm doing my leaving cert. Come on, think of the people doing the biggest exam of their lives!

Another argument to support what exactly? I think the point is well proven at this stage.

Midnight_EG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Another argument to support what exactly? I think the point is well proven at this stage.

You're attacking one statement with a single argument, maybe you should go out and learn some argumentive skills, and you still havent admitted to being perfect, so I take it you're perfect and it gives reason to judge.

And...as a matter of curiousity, do you even drive?


Cos I'm starting to think it's a wind up with the way you're going on too.

pistolpetes11

bad2dabone wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with you there man, as I said to midnight, the standard of driving on our roads is poor and as i said elsewhere on the thread, those with licences should be retested every few years to keep standards high.
(its in all of our interests that we're all at a good standard of driving).




I haven't actually. Because its absurd, to be honest. if you have not passed a test of competency then you are not entitled to drive unaccompanied under the law. The reasons why this law is not enforced fully in my opinion:
- its a hassle for the guards to enforce
- some decent minded guards dont want to lump a potential thousand euro fine on some poor 18 year old
- historically in this country people have driven while unlicensed so theres a culture of it
- the amendments to the law pissed off the Gardai and they're not enforcing it as a result (http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/motoring/desperate-uturn-may-wreck-brave-new-road-safety-plans-1206151.html)

Note I'm not having a go at you guys, hell it ain't a crime if you don't get caught right

The Main problem with this Law is that it has never been enforced until some stage last year , and at that only for a month or two.

You are then telling someone that has been doing it for weeks/months/years that they can no longer do it.

In the UK , if you are driving unaccompanied on a learner permit they take the car off you and send you home on the bus ! simple as , but its a law that has always been enforced so people dont have an issue with it .

Its just gone too far now in Ireland to try and make people change there ways IMO.

Henry Ford III

Midnight_EG wrote: »

You're attacking one statement with a single argument, maybe you should go out and learn some argumentive skills, and you still havent admitted to being perfect, so I take it you're perfect and it gives reason to judge.

And...as a matter of curiousity, do you even drive?


Cos I'm starting to think it's a wind up with the way you're going on too.

Argumentative please

For the final time my driving record is both irrelevant here, and also frankly none of your business.

jhegarty

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Do you accept that what you've already admitted to doing is illegal and therefore wrong Midnight EG?

Midnight has been very up front and honest about his law breaking.

I'll admit to two years of it too.


You are on the only one on here with who seems to have an issue with admitting things.

Henry Ford III

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's a legal issue though, so mention of the law, and the habitual, feckless, and casual breaking of it is exactly the point.

Do you accept that what you've already admitted to doing is illegal and therefore wrong Midnight EG?

Basically the problem you have is that for some reason you are really aggravated that nobody gives a damn about not being accompanied and you do.

I remember when myself and friends of mine were starting to drive we used to laugh at the thought of putting someone out if their way to go accompanying us. I could imagine the conversation.

Me: Will you sit beside me in the car I want to go to "x"

The auld lad: What are ya on about, go with you for what?

Me: But there is a rule...

The auld lad: Ive better things for doin feck off yourself, and drop your sister off in town will you and save me the trip later.

Midnight_EG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Argumentative please

For the final time my driving record is both irrelevant here, and also frankly none of your business.

Like I said, I'm constantly learning new vocab for my leaving cert, so thank you for a grammar correction.


Now, my driving record was no-ones business, but for the sake of this thread I came out about it, and I'm not ashamed. I'm proud of driving, are you?


And, you haven't answered the driving question, do you or don't you?

pistolpetes11

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Argumentative please

For the final time my driving record is both irrelevant here, and also frankly none of your business.

In fairness your judging people and blaming them on higher insurance premiums .

Your record is very relevant .

Average-Ro

bad2dabone wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with you there man, as I said to midnight, the standard of driving on our roads is poor and as i said elsewhere on the thread, those with licences should be retested every few years to keep standards high.
(its in all of our interests that we're all at a good standard of driving).


I haven't actually. Because its absurd, to be honest. if you have not passed a test of competency then you are not entitled to drive unaccompanied under the law. The reasons why this law is not enforced fully in my opinion:
- its a hassle for the guards to enforce
- some decent minded guards dont want to lump a potential thousand euro fine on some poor 18 year old
- historically in this country people have driven while unlicensed so theres a culture of it
- the amendments to the law pissed off the Gardai and they're not enforcing it as a result (http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/motoring/desperate-uturn-may-wreck-brave-new-road-safety-plans-1206151.html)

Note I'm not having a go at you guys, hell it ain't a crime if you don't get caught right

Sorry, I tend to get rambly and incoherant with long post:o What I meant was, if a guard sees a car with L plates driving along doing absolutely nothing wrong, why would they stop them and hit them with a fine?

If they see a reckless learner driver, then by all means stop them, but I think the reason it's not enforced is that the majority of Learners do nothing wrong and are extremely safe.

I know you're not having a go, at least you're having a civil discussion:D

Henry Ford III

jhegarty wrote: »

Midnight has been very up front and honest about his law breaking.

I'll admit to two years of it too.


You are on the only one on here with who seems to have an issue with admitting things.

Good for you two!

This isn't, and won't become a discussion on our relative driving records, simply because I choose not to engage in it.

Midnight_EG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Good for you two!

This isn't, and won't become a discussion on our relative driving records, simply because I choose not to engage in it.

Good for you too, thanks

Average-Ro

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Argumentative please

For the final time my driving record is both irrelevant here, and also frankly none of your business.

If you start a thread giving out about Learners breaking the law, I think it IS relevent if you did it or not when you were a learner... if you even drive...

Henry Ford III

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

In fairness your judging people and blaming them on higher insurance premiums .

Your record is very relevant .

No it's not. I'm not a learner permit holder.

It's for the law to judge wrongdoers ultimately. Frankly I hope those that flout this law get prosecuted to it's full extent.

bad2dabone

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

The Main problem with this Law is that it has never been enforced until some stage last year , and at that only for a month or two.

You are then telling someone that has been doing it for weeks/months/years that they can no longer do it.

totally agree, the entire "we're cracking down on learners!" thing was a publicity stunt by the minister. First he said he'ld get rid of waiting lists and enforce the law, they got rid of the lists by hiring SGS, but now the lists are creeping back up again as they've let the contract with SGS go.

In order to have the law, useable (if i can use that word) and enforceable in a fair manner the system should be so effecient that if you apply for your test at the start of the month you should have a date by the end of that month. The no one would really have an excuse to drive on a permit for long periods of time. And if that system would cost more money to run then increase the test fee and transparency, people would be willing to pay more if they got the service and a detailed breakdown of their recorded faults by the testers.

Henry Ford III

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Good for you too, thanks

Two as in two people. Read it again.

Midnight_EG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

No it's not. I'm not a learner permit holder.

It's for the law to judge wrongdoers ultimately. Frankly I hope those that flout this law get prosecuted to it's full extent.

So are you a driver or not, have you driven on a learner permit?


Don't ask so many questions and make so many statements without giving some insight into your own career which would help at least half a person agree with you.

snowman707

corktina wrote: »

Have to support Henry here. If you arent qualified to be on the road lads, stay off it until you have proved you are competant.Its a dangerous place to be at the best of times.

If you think the present driving test proves the learner to be competant you know very very little about driving on to day's roads.

No so much now but I used to do very high mileage covering roads from where my wing mirrors were collecting briars at the same time to motorways, and IMHO a 30 minute spin around town (often stuck in traffic for most of the time) is a complete waste. Better than nothing but far from ideal.

Midnight_EG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Two as in two people. Read it again.

In that case, grammar fail, it should be 'good for the two of you'.

Henry Ford III

Average-Ro wrote: »

If you start a thread giving out about Learners breaking the law, I think it IS relevent if you did it or not when you were a learner... if you even drive...

I disagree.

pistolpetes11

Average-Ro wrote: »

If you start a thread giving out about Learners breaking the law, I think it IS relevent if you did it or not when you were a learner... if you even drive...

Its just clicked with me there now , I reckon Henry is like my father !

I would say he never has had a provisional license/Learners permit , he bought his license down the post office when they were giving them away many years ago because of the back log !

Midnight_EG

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

Its just clicked with me there now , I reckon Henry is like my father !

I would say he never has had a provisional license/Learners permit , he bought his license down the post office when they were giving them away many years ago because of the back log !

HE'S A HYPOCRIT =D

Midnight_EG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I disagree.

Fortunately, nobody will care that you disagree, because you can't support it with anything at all.

Henry Ford III

Midnight_EG wrote: »

So are you a driver or not, have you driven on a learner permit?


Don't ask so many questions and make so many statements without giving some insight into your own career which would help at least half a person agree with you.

Mind your own business.

I'm not interested in discussing my driving record. This is...yawn...about learner permit holders.

Average-Ro

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I disagree.

I KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzOBlPKZjxE

Midnight_EG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Mind your own business.

I'm not interested in discussing my driving record. This is...yawn...about learner permit holders.

In that case go away, we don't wanna discuss ours with you anymore because you have a totally biased view of things and are afraid to explain yourself.

bad2dabone

nice edit

Midnight_EG

bad2dabone wrote: »

nice edit

Shh

Henry Ford III

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Fortunately, nobody will care that you disagree, because you can't support it with anything at all.

Support what? My point has been made several times. No need to repeat it.

It's obvious you'll not agree with the error of your driving on a learner permit alone, as you do it daily. So universal acceptance isn't actually possible is it?

pistolpetes11

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Mind your own business.

I'm not interested in discussing my driving record. This is...yawn...about learner permit holders.

and your misinformed statement that they cause higher insurance premiums !

Henry Ford III

Midnight_EG wrote: »

In that case go away, we don't wanna discuss ours with you anymore because you have a totally biased view of things and are afraid to explain yourself.

No I will not. Back seat modding is rightly frowned upon here btw.

Midnight_EG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Support what? My point has been made several times. No need to repeat it.

It's obvious you'll not agree with the error of your driving on a learner permit alone, as you do it daily. So universal acceptance isn't actually possible is it?

I clearly accept it if I drive everyday....?


Support your damn argument with a contrasting piece of evidence, which would be your highly secretive driving career, are you the Stig?

Henry Ford III

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

and your misinformed statement that they cause higher insurance premiums !

It was an opinion. Read it again.

Gary ITR

This thread reminded me of this pic



Try discuss this topic like grown ups please lads

Midnight_EG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

No I will not. Back seat modding is rightly frowned upon here btw.

Back seat judging is frowned upon :cool:


I didn't back seat mod at all...

Average-Ro

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Mind your own business.

I'm not interested in discussing my driving record. This is...yawn...about learner permit holders.

So you starts a thread about learner drivers, go on about how you hope that they will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, give out to people here who say they've done it and explain why they think it isn't so bad....

...but you're completely against sharing your own driving background and saying it's none of our business? Now that's not playing very nice...

Henry Ford III

Midnight_EG wrote: »

I clearly accept it if I drive everyday....?


Support your damn argument with a contrasting piece of evidence, which would be your highly secretive driving career, are you the Stig?

My driving record is my own business and none of yours. It's also, despite your best efforts wholly irrelevant to the subject matter.

Henry Ford III

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Back seat judging is frowned upon :cool:


I didn't back seat mod at all...

You tried, and failed.

Midnight_EG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

You tried, and failed.

I'm sorry, you're not perfect, please stop judging me


/childishness.



Of course your record is relevant!

Henry Ford III

Average-Ro wrote: »

So you starts a thread about learner drivers, go on about how you hope that they will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, give out to people here who say they've done it and explain why they think it isn't so bad....

...but you're completely against sharing your own driving background and saying it's none of our business? Now that's not playing very nice...

Look if you wish why not start another thread called "Henry Ford III's driving record".

I may or may not contribute.