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John Gormly to stop building in flood plains

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    #32
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Good old Fianna Fáil:
    Responding to questions from Green Party leader Trevor Sargent, Mr Ahern did not give any guarantee, though, of increased funding for flooding projects.

    According to Mr Sargent, a capital investment programme for flood prevention needed to be introduced. “We are not talking about humanitarian aid. We are talking about Cork City seeking funds for the last 20 years for quay walls [...]
    Accusing Government of having no strategy on flood plains, Mr Sargent said the advice of planners had been ignored and areas prone to flooding built upon.

    However, Mr Ahern rejected the argument and said water plains were covered in the last major Planning Act. “Regarding building on plains, since the population has risen by one million since 1973, that extra million people must live somewhere.”

    People - they have to live somewhere, apparently. I'm only thankful we don't have any volcanoes.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #33
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    People - they have to live somewhere, apparently. I'm only thankful we don't have any volcanoes.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    Or earthquake zones. :/


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    #34
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Diarmuid wrote: »
    Exactly, I know developers are the whipping boys at the moment but it's pretty clear most of the blame lies with local councils, which the same local communities elected. doh!

    This i snot strictly true - I know of quite a few developers who knowingly built on flood planes & of councellors who put pressure on planners to allow the developements to be granted permission. I saw one such development on the news last night, under 3 foot of water.

    Every site should undergo a flood plane assessment - this is being recommended in the new planning laws, but is not being made mandatory.


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    #35
    Rowley Birkin QC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Rowley Birkin QC


    The sooner the structure of Planning Authorities in this country is reformed and scaled back the better. There is no need for Clonmel, Fermoy and Mallow to have their own authorities. Lands vulnerable to flooding should be planned at a regional level, taking local politics as far away from planning decisions as possible.


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    #36
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users Posts: 7,937 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    jmayo wrote: »
    At least an engineer should know about water tables etc.

    Is the area you are talking about above the site of the Longford Town sponsors big warehouse ?
    I remember bad flooding around christmas/new year about 10 years ago.
    The old road to Strokestown that went through the bog was flooded and that area around the bridge coming out of Longofrd was like a lake.
    Was very surprising that it was granted planning permission for huge warehouse


    Scofflaw I think his gripe is that planning for one off rural houses for children of farmers was often refused on the premise that the house was being built on too prominent a height, thus was too visible and should be both lower in stature and site.
    Thus it should not stand out in the countryside.
    Thus houses were often built in holes to mask their outline.

    Of course it would have helped if they weren't trying to build Southfork lookalikes in the first place, but that is another story. :rolleyes:

    It was noticable that some awful looking things situated on top of hills viewable for miles were granted planning, whereas other houses much smalelr and in lower ground were not granted permission.
    :rolleyes:


    that's the very one. they got permission for a serious amount of houses there too, but the last time i saw them there wasn't too much built there.

    but like i said before, i'd prefer county councils planning departments to be staffed with more civil engineers that have done some planning courses than planners only.
    councillors don't seem to be too accountable for rezoning mistakes, taking the councillor from monaghan that was on frontline last night as case and point. he was all about how people were given permission to build on flood planes but when he was shown a video of an interview he did a few years ago he had to backtrack and say it'd be fine to build houses on stilts.

    can someone explain.... sometimes when developments are brought up at council meetings and debated, if the councillors are happy with it do they approve planning permission, and send it to the county manager to be rubber stamped, or can the manager still refuse it and risk the backlash of the councillors?


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    #37
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    ballsymchugh wrote: »

    can someone explain.... sometimes when developments are brought up at council meetings and debated, if the councillors are happy with it do they approve planning permission, and send it to the county manager to be rubber stamped, or can the manager still refuse it and risk the backlash of the councillors?

    The final decision lies with the planners. However, all grants for planning can be subject to appeal by An Bord Pleanala.


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    #38
    Essexboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Essexboy


    ballsymchugh wrote: »
    that's the very one. they got permission for a serious amount of houses there too, but the last time i saw them there wasn't too much built there.

    but like i said before, i'd prefer county councils planning departments to be staffed with more civil engineers that have done some planning courses than planners only.
    councillors don't seem to be too accountable for rezoning mistakes, taking the councillor from monaghan that was on frontline last night as case and point. he was all about how people were given permission to build on flood planes but when he was shown a video of an interview he did a few years ago he had to backtrack and say it'd be fine to build houses on stilts.

    can someone explain.... sometimes when developments are brought up at council meetings and debated, if the councillors are happy with it do they approve planning permission, and send it to the county manager to be rubber stamped, or can the manager still refuse it and risk the backlash of the councillors?

    rezoning is a matter for councillors only. The county manager has no say in the matter and must accept what the councillors vote for.
    See http://www.sligochampion.ie/news/plans-to-be-lodged-soon-for-carraroe-private-hospital-1934167.html as an exaample.


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    #39
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Essexboy wrote: »
    rezoning is a matter for councillors only. The county manager has no say in the matter and must accept what the councillors vote for.
    See http://www.sligochampion.ie/news/plans-to-be-lodged-soon-for-carraroe-private-hospital-1934167.html as an exaample.

    Zoning is a different issue - an area may be zoned for commercial & retail, for example, but it's not guranteed that any application for a commercial or retail development within the zoned area will be granted permission by the planners.

    The real problem with the granting of permissions to developers to build on flood planes is not that parts of some zoned areas are unsuitable for some types of construction, nor is it that planners grant permission in some cases to build on these areas, but that the planning laws & guidelines do not take into account the need for real flood plane assessment and take no account at all of storm water defences.

    Add to that the mismanagement of our waterways & it was always a timebomb waiting to happen.


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    #40
    Essexboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Essexboy


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    Zoning is a different issue - an area may be zoned for commercial & retail, for example, but it's not guranteed that any application for a commercial or retail development within the zoned area will be granted permission by the planners.

    The real problem with the granting of permissions to developers to build on flood planes is not that parts of some zoned areas are unsuitable for some types of construction, nor is it that planners grant permission in some cases to build on these areas, but that the planning laws & guidelines do not take into account the need for real flood plane assessment and take no account at all of storm water defences.

    Add to that the mismanagement of our waterways & it was always a timebomb waiting to happen.

    Rezoning is a first step to getting planning permission. If the politicians and council officials collaborate permission is guaranteed.
    Look at http://www.independent.ie/national-news/councils-to-build-on-flood-plain-1468918.html
    where the officials, chamber of commerce and a majority of councillors decided that it is OK to build on a flood plain. All locals together!
    As an aside
    • Much of the rezoned land was owned by a sitting councillor.
    • The council chairman was Barry Cowen, Biffo's brother.
    • A vocal supporter of rezoning was Ger Killally, now being pursued for millions by a variety of lenders and former partners.


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