Anti British senitiments exposed on The Apprentice

Elmo

For sales they try to use a local voice over, helps with sales or some such nonsense.

Note how Customer care for UK companies are in Ireland, (now India but my point still holds) yet they use sales people in England (not wales, NI or Scotland).

They would say the same about the Irish accent in England.

I did find it a bit silly for Steve to say that the English accent was the "noble" one. Came across as very condescending.

You would think he spoke like the Queen!

sparkling sea

asdasd wrote: »

so have I. Ireland has in fact aborbed more immigrants per capita in the shortest amount of time with little or no repurcussions.

No BNP for instance. No Vlams Bloque.

At the same stage of its immigration the UK was producing National Fronts and other groups, and it is more anti-EU.

In any case back to the simple point in hand - advertisers use local people. They dont even use Scottish people in England, nor Welsh ( and vice versa) even though they are on the same Island.

Deal with it. And it is accent, not race.

Your wrong and tomorrow I will prove it to you. I tired tonight to write it all out.

Have a sociology book which tables our bad record in chronological order happy to pass on this info to you.

Ireland has a terrible record for taking in immigrants, we only took 60 Jewish people in WW2 and this trend continued until the boom.

The only reason we allowed people to come here in the past ten years or so was because we need them to boast of economy, we needed the labour.

Equally your knowledge of the British media practices is dubious to say the least.

sparkling sea

Elmo wrote: »

For sales they try to use a local voice over, helps with sales or some such nonsense.

Note how Customer care for UK companies are in Ireland, (now India but my point still holds) yet they use sales people in England (not wales, NI or Scotland).

They would say the same about the Irish accent in England.

I think it has been pointed out that the voice over argument does not stand up. Why have you chosen to ignore, what is a valid point.

And they don't say the same thing about the Irish accent in England, not in the context that it was said on The Apprentice tonight.

As another commentator pointed out there would probably be uproar if they did and rightly so

Elmo

sparkling sea wrote: »

Have a sociology book which tables our bad record in chronological order happy to pass on this info to you.

We were migrant workers for most of the last centry bar the 1960s, we lived in a 3rd World country. Why would an migrant want to come here, we were all leaving.

Ireland has a terrible record for taking in immigrants, we only took 60 Jewish people in WW2 and this trend continued until the boom.

And you think the rest of the world dealt well with the Jewish people after WW2?

The only reason we allowed people to come here in the past ten years or so was because we need them to boast of economy, we needed the labour.

Because for the first time we were able to take them in, and it isn't like they were English. We would have taken anyone before the boom, and during the boom by Referendum we took that back (I voted No did you?)

Equally your knowledge of the British media practices is dubious to say the least

The BBC were really slow to even have one local English accent on the BBC until the 1970. You had to speak BBC English, it wasn't until the arrival of ITV in the 1950 that that changed and even that was slow, was until the 1970 that the UK saw or heard people with different accents on their services. Talk to Micheal Parkinson about his accent.

mcmoustache

Hissing Sideban wrote: »

In the 1980s there were plenty of British DJ's working and making ads in Ireland, in fact on many radio stations it was the norm.

Consumers reacted equally as positively to these ads and they also react positively to agency ads were British voices are used. Your arguement doesn't hold water. Its the idea of feeding some Irish peoples intrinsic insecurity rather then cold hard business or what the people want, that allows for premises like yours to be presented as fact. The experience of Irish media in the 80's completely topples your suggestion.

Maybe you need to do a bit of research yourself

To bring it back to marketing again, there was a time when English and American accents were "Cool". In the 80's, Irish people associated Irish accents with Irish people in the 80's. Not very cool at all. I remember myself in those days thinking that England and the North were more advanced. And I can tell you, no one would have trusted an ad for Atari (Under 50 bucks!) if Daithi O Sé had done the voice-over.

And just so you know, people's perceptions change by the month. Just because they did things one way in the 80's does not mean they still do. They did it differently in the 80's because we were different. Now, as a confident nation with a large, educated, middle class, we prefer to buy Irish and Advertising agencies reflect that.

If we were living in the 80's right now and I had said what I had sad, then I would be wrong. However, that was 20 years ago and marketing strategies have changed. I'll consider myself right for now.

Elmo

sparkling sea wrote: »

I think it has been pointed out that the voice over argument does not stand up. Why have you chosen to ignore, what is a valid point.

And they don't say the same thing about the Irish accent in England, not in the context that it was said on The Apprentice tonight.

As another commentator pointed out there would probably be uproar if they did and rightly so

In the UK version of the very same series when Jennifer Maguire (Dubliner) was fired the English panelist on The Apprentice (You're Fired) discussed in detail her horrible Irish accent and asked were she had got it from.

mcmoustache

sparkling sea wrote: »

As a very proud Irish person I find this sort of covert racism embarassing, and its even more uncomfortable to watch on TV when a comment that is obviously anti British is said in the presence of a Bristish person; and then broadcast on TV. We just dont seem to have any awareness at all.

No. We just don't go looking for it. Real racism happens all the time and you're just undermining what real victims of racism go through.

super_furry

Jesus, three pages? The fish are biting tonight.

mcmoustache

super_furry wrote: »

Jesus, three pages? The fish are biting tonight.

Sometimes it's fun to feed them ;o) And the OP seems to really believe what she's saying so it might not be such a clear case of trolling.

krudler

sparkling sea wrote: »

I was disappointed at the backward step in the form of a racist statement made by an Appleby representative and resounded by Bill Cullen on the Apprentice show this evening.
The fact that this person nor Bill Cullen didn't even have enough cope on to
disguise their racist attitude is even more bewildering. The fact that both TV3 and Renault endorsed this by choosing not to edit this out is to me mind blowing.

Its one thing to announce on live TV that as a company, Appleby's would
prefer to have an Irish accent on an advert (even if the intention is
covertly racist) but to announce that as a company they overtly did not want a British voice was stupid.

It brings back of the no blacks, no dogs and no Irish attitude that existed in Britain in the 1950's - it was wrong 50 years ago and is completely unacceptable in 2009.

Appleby's as a company definitely sent a clear message, they have underlining issues, Bill Cullen and Renault further perpetuated this view.
And TV3 endorsed this.

I know we are in a recession but we don't need this old chestnut rearing its ugly head again :mad:

The English are a different race of people than us now? Surely thats xenophobia rather than racism, obvious troll is not only obvious, but silly

Not allowing dogs in somewhere is racist as well? those poor dogs, getting a bad rap for years, just because of a few bad ones:D

sparkling sea

krudler wrote: »

The English are a different race of people than us now? Surely thats xenophobia rather than racism, obvious troll is not only obvious, but silly

Not allowing dogs in somewhere is racist as well? those poor dogs, getting a bad rap for years, just because of a few bad ones:D

You are right I should have said xenophobia rather than racism. I dont mind admitting I am wrong, if I am wrong, I also don't mind admitting that a major problem exists in Ireland with regard to tolerance for people of other nationalities.

I think it was very disappointing to see this on the Apprentice and I don't really care what other countries do, the old saying the two wrongs don't make a right holds true.

This programme is supposedly set in a working environment and legislation exists that deals with all types of discrimination. EEA 1998 ESA 2000 EA2004 outlaw direct and indirect discrimination and discrimination by association at work among others on the grounds of race. I won't pretend that people are not discriminated against everyday, but I do think that business peole and TV stations should be aware of this legislation and need for it. They should take proper measures to ensure they do not propel this discrimination. If they do breach the spirit of the legislation, we should recognise this and let it be known that it is unacceptable.

I am not surprised that many people here think this may be a joke or that some totally ignore that fact that I am not the only person who feels that the behaviour was completely inappropriate. Please dont reply thats because it is a joke - I don't find it fun and IT would appear from other commentators that I am not the only one

Fortunately, some people understand exactly what the problem is. Discrimination is a huge problem in Ireland, and like bullying it does not have to be physical, it can also be psychological and verbal, and I believe it was in this case.

sparkling sea

mcmoustache wrote: »

No. We just don't go looking for it. Real racism happens all the time and you're just undermining what real victims of racism go through.

I think its more a case that we ignore whats right under our nose or what we dont want to see with regard to all sorts of problems. Its easier to ignore a problem then deal with it.

Maybe thats why we have some many problems - hear no evil, see no evil

amacachi

Elmo

sparkling sea wrote: »

You are right I should have said xenophobia rather than racism. I dont mind admitting I am wrong, if I am wrong, I also don't mind admitting that a major problem exists in Ireland with regard to tolerance for people of other nationalities.

I think it was very disappointing to see this on the Apprentice and I don't really care what other countries do, the old saying the two wrongs don't make a right holds true.

This programme is supposedly set in a working environment and legislation exists that deals with all types of discrimination. EEA 1998 ESA 2000 EA2004 outlaw direct and indirect discrimination and discrimination by association at work among others on the grounds of race. I won't pretend that people are not discriminated against everyday, but I do think that business peole and TV stations should be aware of this legislation and need for it. They should take proper measures to ensure they do not propel this discrimination. If they do breach the spirit of the legislation, we should recognise this and let it be known that it is unacceptable.

I am not surprised that many people here think this may be a joke or that some totally ignore that fact that I am not the only person who feels that the behaviour was completely inappropriate. Please dont reply thats because it is a joke - I don't find it fun and IT would appear from other commentators that I am not the only one

Fortunately, some people understand exactly what the problem is. Discrimination is a huge problem in Ireland, and like bullying it does not have to be physical, it can also be psychological and verbal, and I believe it was in this case.

If you feel this way then you should make a complaint to the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland www.bai.ie. They will make a ruling on your complaint and if they argee will ask TV3 to make an apology on air.

However I do think you are blowing one remark out of proportion. What did the person say exactly.

Did they say: -

I don't want a British accent
I only want an Irish accent
I don't want an English accent
I don't want a foreign accent

Also you seem to have ignored several facts IMO

1. That in Britain it was a number of years before local accents appeared on air (You brought history up)
2. That in Ireland we watch English television with English accents.
3. It is not unusual to ask for specific accents on advertising, for example they could have stated. We want a male voice over, do you think that that would sexist?

But go through the complaints process and see what happen it will be interesting to see the result.

No comment on Jennifer MaGuires accent?

getz

TheCandystripes wrote: »

definetly anyway the british are a better people than irish no matter how irish might think otherwise. irish people can't handle foreigners who have been here for a few years, british have been dealing with irish and other foreigners for centuries.

more than centuries, the irish have been over here ever since written records.i would be worried if i dident see a irish character or hear a irish accent on the TV or in the soaps in the UK

Saint_Mel

Elmo wrote: »

Did they say: -

I don't want a British accent
I only want an Irish accent
I don't want an English accent
I don't want a foreign accent

Cant remember exact phrase but to me it seemed as if they were disgusted at the thoughts of the company/products/family being associated with an English accent.
Could be wrong but thats just the impression I got from them.

While they wanted to empahsise the fact that they are an Irish family business they would have been perfectly entitled to look for Irish accents on the vioce over
but I think their reaction to it painted them in a different light.

On a different note though I thought it was a bad move putting cheap plastic crowns in an advert for jewellery!

Noffles

Maybe.... they're putting an Irish accent on it to have it more friendly, less "clever".... British accents tend to sound to smart, highbrow and aloof.....

just a thought....

*tick tick tick..... waits for it*

Elmo

Noffles wrote: »

Maybe.... they're putting an Irish accent on it to have it more friendly, less "clever".... British accents tend to sound to smart, highbrow and aloof.....

just a thought....

*tick tick tick..... waits for it*

Here you go!

This IMO is a very Irish thing to think (The welsh and scottish also seem to think it). And it is just a post-clonial view of the English accent. Just like in Ireland their are plenty of different accents in England not just Posh English accents. I feel that the English person in the Irish apprentice does not have one of those accents (he does not sound Smart, Highbrow or Aloof haha).

Also it is great to see we are now more used to saying British when we talk about Britian rather than England. Ironically when we talk about England we refer to Britian as though Scotland and Wales don't exist. :rolleyes:

sparkling sea

Elmo wrote: »

If you feel this way then you should make a complaint to the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland www.bai.ie. They will make a ruling on your complaint and if they argee will ask TV3 to make an apology on air.

However I do think you are blowing one remark out of proportion. What did the person say exactly.

Did they say: -

I don't want a British accent
I only want an Irish accent
I don't want an English accent
I don't want a foreign accent

Also you seem to have ignored several facts IMO

1. That in Britain it was a number of years before local accents appeared on air (You brought history up)
2. That in Ireland we watch English television with English accents.
3. It is not unusual to ask for specific accents on advertising, for example they could have stated. We want a male voice over, do you think that that would sexist?

But go through the complaints process and see what happen it will be interesting to see the result.

No comment on Jennifer MaGuires accent?

I did make a complaint to BAI last night, although its not a straight forward as you may think.

Everything has to be put into context and what happened on the show last night, was embarassing and discriminator in my opinion, and as I previously pointed out I am not alone in feeling this way

Depending on the context, attacks on anyones accent on any TV in any country is a disgrace. Professional business people on a show like this one should be more aware of their legal obligations not to discriminate or associate themselves with people or acts that are deemed discriminatory
And they should also be aware of how they may be overtly acknowledging discriminatory sentiments and the consequences of these no matter what country they are in.

Noffles

Elmo wrote: »

Here you go!

This IMO is a very Irish thing to think (The welsh and scottish also seem to think it). And it is just a post-clonial view of the English accent. Just like in Ireland their are plenty of different accents in England not just Posh English accents. I feel that the English person in the Irish apprentice does not have one of those accents (he does not sound Smart, Highbrow or Aloof haha).

Also it is great to see we are now more used to saying British when we talk about Britian rather than England. Ironically when we talk about England we refer to Britian as though Scotland and Wales don't exist. :rolleyes:

Well being Welsh I feel I can comment like this and call Britain... Britain as I am British... and Wales and Scotland do exist in Britain.

But I do agree with your post.

sparkling sea

Saint_Mel wrote: »

Cant remember exact phrase but to me it seemed as if they were disgusted at the thoughts of the company/products/family being associated with an English accent.
Could be wrong but thats just the impression I got from them.

While they wanted to empahsise the fact that they are an Irish family business they would have been perfectly entitled to look for Irish accents on the vioce over
but I think their reaction to it painted them in a different light.

On a different note though I thought it was a bad move putting cheap plastic crowns in an advert for jewellery!

Couldn't agree more, they are entitled to request a certain accent and if they had any sense this is what they would have done. Sadly they didn't do this and it appears that some people find this totally acceptable. Strange

sparkling sea

amacachi wrote: »

You don't appear to understand the issue, but that doesn't mean it isn't an issue. Love the photos though

Rondolfus

sparkling sea wrote: »

Couldn't agree more, they are entitled to request a certain accent and if they had any sense this is what they would have done. Sadly they didn't do this and it appears that some people find this totally acceptable. Strange

Total rubbish. I agree with an earlier poster that suggested you were a troll because your logic is ....well non-existant.

If the English version of the apprentice set a similar task for their contestants , lets say for a company that specialised in English made furniture (note the fact "English made" is one of their major selling points ). However one of the contestants decided to make the radio ad using an American accent. The company owners would naturally say... "eh whats with the American accent?" Would you complain about that??? I doubt it.

Its basic marketing ffs. Its not difficult.

Does your shoulder get sore carrying that chip around all day?



Its simple marketing

sparkling sea

Rondolfus wrote: »

Does your shoulder get sore carrying that chip around all day?

Which chip would that be now.

Your neck must be killing you though given were your head is.

Tit for tat is totally a waste of time.

celticbest

TheCandystripes wrote: »

definetly anyway the british are a better people than irish no matter how irish might think otherwise. irish people can't handle foreigners who have been here for a few years, british have been dealing with irish and other foreigners for centuries.

The Irish didn't take over half the world and then not expect any of them to want to go to the country they were ruled by.

What you said is absolutely stupid, Britain went through years of outright racism and still have blatantly racist organisations in the from of the National Front etc.

Where's the National front in Ireland?? We don't have organisations like that.

Just look in your part of the world were the Unionists are now kicking foreigners out of Belfast because they are no longer fighting the Nationalists on a daily basis.

baalthor

Saint_Mel wrote: »

Cant remember exact phrase but to me it seemed as if they were disgusted at the thoughts of the company/products/family being associated with an English accent.
Could be wrong but thats just the impression I got from them.

While they wanted to empahsise the fact that they are an Irish family business they would have been perfectly entitled to look for Irish accents on the vioce over
but I think their reaction to it painted them in a different light.

Appleby's - not the best name if you're worried about being associated with the English !

Maybe they should change their name to O'Leprechaun's or something:D

Liam Byrne

Let's take the OP's core point a little further....

If you're casting (either for an advert or even a role in a TV show / film) and you say that you "need a male / female" - is that sexist ?

Elmo

sparkling sea wrote: »

I did make a complaint to BAI last night, although its not a straight forward as you may think.

Everything has to be put into context and what happened on the show last night, was embarassing and discriminator in my opinion, and as I previously pointed out I am not alone in feeling this way

Depending on the context, attacks on anyones accent on any TV in any country is a disgrace. Professional business people on a show like this one should be more aware of their legal obligations not to discriminate or associate themselves with people or acts that are deemed discriminatory
And they should also be aware of how they may be overtly acknowledging discriminatory sentiments and the consequences of these no matter what country they are in.

And any complaints about the Jennifer MaGuire accent on the UK apprentice?

krudler

Depending on the context, attacks on anyones accent on any TV in any country is a disgrace. Professional business people on a show like this one should be more aware of their legal obligations not to discriminate or associate themselves with people or acts that are deemed discriminatory
And they should also be aware of how they may be overtly acknowledging discriminatory sentiments and the consequences of these no matter what country they are in.

you'd better complain about every comedian on tv while you're at it then

NormanNicetouch

sparkling sea wrote: »

It brings back of the no blacks, no dogs and no Irish attitude that existed in Britain in the 1950's - it was wrong 50 years ago and is completely unacceptable in 2009.

The no Irish, dogs etc. signs which were sometimes seen in 1950s and '60s London have to be seen in historical context. At the time, much of the accommodation available in areas where the Irish gathered in large numbers (Camden Town, Cricklewood etc) consisted of rooms being let in their own homes by single, often elderly women, who had been widowed in the First or Second World Wars. The British social welfare was much less developed at the time and these women needed the income just to survive and keep a roof over their heads. The Irish who moved to these areas at the time were mostly single men from rural Ireland working on building sites. They were notorious hard drinkers (often due to desperate loneliness), spending their wages in the pub 7-nights-a-week before tumbling back to their lodgings in a desperate state. They were also known as the Fighting Irish for a fairly obvious reason. Of course not all the Irish in London were like this, but the reputation soon spread. Can you really blame an old woman living on her own for not wanting to lie in bed waiting for pissed Paddy to tumble through the door ever night?

Of course in these modern times she could have been much more discrete and used the words "professionals only" which seem to appear in a lot of modern rental ads - really just code for "no working class riff-raff".