London 2010

dermCu

Apologies for the lack of an imaginative title, I'd rather keep it simple.
30 year old male. 2:54 PB set in 2007. Goal for London marathon 2010 is 2:49.

I've been training pretty well throughout this year; not always with high mileage or intensity but I'm happy with the consistency.
I've gradually cranked things up in the last two months.
I guess its a better idea to keep an online log rather than a written one. Plus I hope that making my training visible to others will provide added motivation for me when things get rough.

The plan is to continue base building until early/mid January. Hopefully I'll spend 2 - 3 weeks transitioning to full on marathon phase. After that its 8 or 9 weeks of marathon specifics and then a nice easy 2 or 3 week taper. Sounds simple. Nothing is written in stone so I don't mind if I have to change things around. I don't follow a specific plan but I do take info from Daniels & Pfitz and incorporate it into a plan that works for me.

Last week as follows (everything in miles):

Nov:

Sun 22nd - 20 LR - My watch stopped 3 miles in. I thought it was charged. Rookie mistake. Am pretty happy that I was hitting around 7:20 m/m. Finished strong.

Mon 23rd - 8.6 Rec - 7:40 m/m took it easy.

Tue 24th - 10 Steady - Very breezy so happy with 7 m/m

Wed 25th - 12.2 Medium long - 7:16 m/m

Thu 26th - 10 ---- 4m in the middle @ PMP. Did my usual party trick of running the first 2 miles 15sec per mile too fast. Average 6:52 m/m for the total session.

Fri 27th - 6.1 Rec - 7:49 m/m - was a little tired.

Sat 28th - 8.7 Steady 7:15 m/m

Sun 29th - 20 LR 7:05 m/m tired a little in the last mile or two. Happy all the same.

Mon 30th - 8.7 Rec - 7:40 m/m felt good, Had to stop myself from speeding up.

75 miles last week. I'd like to do the same again this week but I've no problem taking an unscheduled rest day if I start to feel too tired, I've no intention of chasing weekly mileage totals for the sake of it.

metamorphosis

Nice mileage.

How long do you reckon your average joe saop 40-50 miler would be able to build that type of mile?10% rule.

Best of luck with the log.Looks like you will have little trouble achieving your goal.

misty floyd

Hey Dermcu,
Good luck with London. Can I ask what your previous marathon times where? Just curious/nosey.

dermCu

Thanks ULstudent. There is no such thing as an average 40 - 50 miler in my book!! Without wanting to come across all preachy if I was in that bracket the first thing I'd ask myself is 'Am I getting the most out of my current mileage?'. After all there are a lot of runners out there running a lot faster than me on 40 - 50 miles a week so mileage is not everything.

If the answer is yes and you are ready to step up I'd suggest that the best way to do it is in marathon cycles rather than just measure in weeks. If you are in the lower 40's I hazard a guess that 2 marathon cycles would be best. If you are hitting 50+ you could do it in one cycle. Just my opinion, lots of people will do it in less or more. Horses for courses. A marathon cycle for me is around 5 months.

Thanks Misty. No problem, in order:
3:15
3:10
2:55
2:54
2:57
The 3:15 was done about 9 years ago. I've done lots of different events along the way - fell running, mountain marathons, orienteering etc.. so I haven't always focused on the marathon.

heffsarmy

Good luck with the Log Dermo, you will go sub 2.50 no problem. Thats a good base you have, are you going to extend the long run or keep it too 20 until january.

dermCu

heffsarmy wrote: »

Good luck with the Log Dermo, you will go sub 2.50 no problem. Thats a good base you have, are you going to extend the long run or keep it too 20 until january.

Thanks Heff. I'll extend out the long run. I should hit 24 before the end of Jan.
Don't think I'll push hard on the long run until then.

I saw your updated log. I had a suspicion that the good life in San Fran might get the better of you!! No harm, Rotterdam is far enough away and by the sounds of it you've had a good years training.

village runner

dermCu wrote: »

Thanks Misty. No problem, in order:
3:15
3:10
2:55
2:54
2:57
The 3:15 was done about 9 years ago. I've done lots of different events along the way - fell running, mountain marathons, orienteering etc.. so I haven't always focused on the marathon.

Plan is to do london myself with the same aim. Depends on alot of things though.
Would be a jump of ten min.
What makes you think you can jump 8 min from your last marathon ??
I see you have started your long ones as well. How many a month will you do ??
What races have you lined up for early 2010 ?? Any half you could do with london in mind. Larne half march 20th but its the day before Ballycotton.

dermCu

village runner wrote: »

Plan is to do london myself with the same aim. Depends on alot of things though.
Would be a jump of ten min.
What makes you think you can jump 8 min from your last marathon ??
I see you have started your long ones as well. How many a month will you do ??
What races have you lined up for early 2010 ?? Any half you could do with london in mind. Larne half march 20th but its the day before Ballycotton.

For the 2:57 I went through half way in 1:24. 35k in 2:23(around 6:35 pace) then promptly blew up. I got what I trained for, I had done very little tempo or PMP running. I knew that at the start. It was a choice between being conservative and ducking under 2:54 or go nuts and have a shot at sub 2:50.
I was happy I went with the 'go nuts option', it showed me I could run 6:30's and I knew exactly what I had to do. That was London 2008, I wanted to kick on and run an autumn marathon but life got in the way.

I don't want to make excuses but I was fit enough to break 2:50 when I ran the 2:54(Boston2007). A combination of bad weather, injury and my own stupidity cost me that one. It was a real horror story.

I'll just keep on doing long runs with a step back week every 3 or 4 weeks.

I live in London so picking up a half anytime around Jan/Feb/Mar should be easy. No plans yet. Maybe Reading or Watford.

dermCu

Tuesday 1st Dec: 10m @ 6:54 m/m
Was a little faster than anticipated. I got a good rhythm going early on and was enjoying the run so I didn't bother backing off the pace.

Peckham

Will be reading this one with interest, as London is my goal race next year also. However, my aim is to cross it a few minutes behind your target!

Will be starting my log in about 2 weeks time, so hopefully we can push each other along if things start to flag a little in the dark February evenings!

village runner

dermCu wrote: »

For the 2:57 I went through half way in 1:24. 35k in 2:23(around 6:35 pace) then promptly blew up. I got what I trained for, I had done very little tempo or PMP running. I knew that at the start. It was a choice between being conservative and ducking under 2:54 or go nuts and have a shot at sub 2:50.
I was happy I went with the 'go nuts option', it showed me I could run 6:30's and I knew exactly what I had to do. That was London 2008, I wanted to kick on and run an autumn marathon but life got in the way.

I don't want to make excuses but I was fit enough to break 2:50 when I ran the 2:54(Boston2007). A combination of bad weather, injury and my own stupidity cost me that one. It was a real horror story.

I'll just keep on doing long runs with a step back week every 3 or 4 weeks.

I live in London so picking up a half anytime around Jan/Feb/Mar should be easy. No plans yet. Maybe Reading or Watford.

Will stay in touch. Will keep an eye on your log with interest. You have the speed so you need the training.

dermCu

Thanks guys, I'll keep an eye out for how both of you are getting along.

Wed 2nd Dec 13.1 - 7:10 m/m.
Cold, very wet and generally miserable. To top it all off I had a nice bleeding nipple at the end. It’s been years since I had that particular pleasure....

dermCu

Thur 03 Dec - 10 in total --- 5 @ 6:30 m/m. 6:50m/m average for the total session. Happy with that. Was more disciplined than last week and pretty much stuck to the planned PMP.

dermCu

Fri 4th Recovery: 5m am and 5m pm. Both almost exactly the same pace - 7:25

dermCu

Week in summary:

Mon 30th Nov: - 8.7 Rec

Tuesday 1st Dec: 10m @ 6:54 m/m

Wed 2nd Dec: 13.1 - 7:10 m/m.

Thur 03 Dec: - 10 in total --- 5 @ 6:30 m/m. 6:50m/m average for the total session.

Fri 4th Dec: Recovery: 5m am and 5m pm. Both almost exactly the same pace - 7:25

Sat 5th Dec: - Rest, felt a little sluggish. Have not had a day off in almost 3 weeks so it made sense to rest.

Sun 6th Dec: - 22.4 @ 7:04 m/m - 2:38 in total. Had to work a little harder for this than I expected to. Happy all the same.

74 miles for the week.

Have a few commitments next week which mean I might struggle to get out on Thur/Fri. Will try to get around it.

dermCu

Mon Dec 7th: 8.7 Rec @ 7:37 m/m
Tue Dec 8th 10 @ 6:56 m/m didnt feel fully recovered from Sunday.
Wed Dec 9th 13.1 @ 7:11 m/m Had to head out at 6:30am to fit this run in. Not great fun; it was one of those runs that you just need to grind out.

heffsarmy

Your training seems to be going really well, rather you than me doin the 13.1 miler this morning, fair play to you. Have you got any races lined uip over the festive season?

dermCu

Week ending 13th Dec:

Mon Dec 7th: 8.7 Rec @ 7:37 m/m
Tue Dec 8th 10 @ 6:56 m/m didn't feel fully recovered from Sunday.
Wed Dec 9th 13.1 @ 7:11 m/m
Thur Dec 10th - No running. Not much I could do about it.
Fri Dec 11th - 10 @ 6:57 m/m
Sat Dec 12th - am 5 in total. 1 warm up, 2.5 at 5:45 m/m, 1.5 cool down. Not really intended to be a workout but as I missed Thurs I felt like a change of pace.
- pm 5 @ 7:30 m/m
Sun Dec 13th - 17.5 @ 7:20 Used this as a step back. I've had 4 long runs of at least 20 miles in consecutive weeks (20, 20, 20, 22) It was time to step back. I would have preferred to save the step back for one of the weeks over Christmas but the timing was a little off.

70 miles for the week. It did not feel like the best week of training but considering I had a pretty busy week outside of running I'll take it.

Heff: No plans to race over Christmas. I'd love to get in a 10k but I have to be realistic, I doubt it'll happen.

dermCu

Mon 14th Dec: 10 @ 7:20m/m The classic game of 2 halves....
Couldn't relax for the first half, my shoulders were hunched up and I never felt good. Slowly but surely I relaxed into it and finished much stronger than I started.

dermCu

Tue 15th Dec: 10 @ 6:40 m/m. It was too cold to hang around so I pushed on a bit.

dermCu

Wed 16th 14.14 @ 7:16 Slowed a bit in the last 2 miles so for the majority of the run my pace was probably a bit closer to 7. I think it was down to fuelling - I had a pretty small lunch and didnt run until 8 with nothing to eat in between. That was a bit dumb.

Krusty_Clown

That's some great running and dedication, dermCu. Those recovery runs are quite long, aren't they? I guess on a 70 mile week you have to stretch them out. Do you still feel refreshed afterwards?

Did you follow a similar plan for your previous races/PBs, i.e. a large number of 20+ long runs? Sorry for all the questions, just very impressed with the speed and mileage 4 months from your goal.

dermCu

Thur Dec 17th: 10 @ 7:15 - Oh but that's only half the story....... The temp has been round about freezing all day in London so for the first 3 or 4 miles I had to be pretty careful to dodge around icy patches on the path. Then the snow started to bucket down. Within a few minutes there was a nice layer of snow on the ice. For about 2 miles the snow was blowing horizontal into my face, I was just about able to see where I was going and had one very close encounter with a lamppost. I was like a snowman when I got home. I'm a bit surprised I averaged 7:15 m/m

Thanks for that Krusty. The recovery runs are a bit long but to be honest at the moment they are half recovery and half general aerobic. I feel pretty good after them. As I start to do more workouts I think I might try to split those recovery runs into doubles. I might slow the pace down if I'm feeling wrecked.

I've followed the same theory for other marathons but I've never hit this kind of mileage or pace so early in the training cycle. Hopefully I can stay injury free. For previous spring marathons I think I usually did one or two 20 milers before Christmas. I think it was Tergat I've seen post here before about specificity in training. If it was him he is spot on. Apols if my memory is wrong there. In my opinion if you are going to run marathons the long run is just about as specific as you can get so you should maximise the number of them you run in training. Of course that max number differs from person to person.

dermCu

Fri 18th Dec: Nothing. I wanted to get out at lunch for about 7 miles but there was too much snow on the ground. I was off to the airport straight after work to head home for Christmas so I couldn’t fit a run in.

Sat 19th Dec: Went up Croagh Patrick with a friend. 1:20 but to be honest we were not really pushing it. Was going to go a second time but my friend picked up some bruising on his foot and didn’t want to aggravate it. I was going to do a 5 mile PM run but when I got home I felt like was coming down with a flu so canned the run had a hot whiskey and went to bed.

Sun 20th Dec. 22 @ 6:57 2:33 in total. Felt much better when I got up so went ahead with the planned long run. That was good, felt in control all the way and dropped the last mile to MP. Could have continued on for a few miles more.

--amadeus--

Interesting reading. I have got a ton of questions but I'll try and keep them short!

- How do you determine the correct pace for your LSRs? What's your fuelling strategy on them and what's teh elevation profile?

- What's your opinion on racing flats versus regular trainers for race day? If you wear flats on teh day how do you prepare your legs for that?

- What are your other distance PBs? What's your sporting background?

Interesting log, one I'll def. be watching, thanks!

Abhainn

Hi there dermCu just spotted your log. Welcome home.
Strong 22 miler there today. Will be looking on with interest.

Peckham

+1 on the 22 miler. Pretty good for the confidence to feel that strong at the end of it.

dermCu

Interesting reading. I have got a ton of questions but I'll try and keep them short!

- How do you determine the correct pace for your LSRs? What's your fuelling strategy on them and what's teh elevation profile?

- What's your opinion on racing flats versus regular trainers for race day? If you wear flats on teh day how do you prepare your legs for that?

- What are your other distance PBs? What's your sporting background?

Interesting log, one I'll def. be watching, thanks!

Thanks Amadeus. I’m happy to answer any question I can, long or short.

Correct pace for LSRs: For me it's pretty simple. I don’t want to go slower than 15% of PMP. It might sound simplistic but after that the way I judge it is that I want to run the long run as fast as I can but not so fast that it will take more than one day of easy running to recover from it. Obviously that takes a bit of trial and error to figure out and sometimes goes wrong. That’s worked so far for me in this base phase but I might have to strech this to two days if I start to run a significant number of PMP miles in my long run.

Fuelling strategy: I’ll stash a 500ml bottle of isotonic (Lucozade sport, Gatorade etc..) somewhere between mile 6 – 9. I’ll take most of it on board over 2 to 3 miles. I’ll pick up water at mile 17 – 18. In the next couple of weeks I’ll start experimenting with gels. I’ve not used them much in the past.

Elevation profile: Yesterday was 550ft gained and lost. My usual 22 mile route in London is 830ft gained and lost.

Racing flats: I’ll be wearing regular trainers for race day. That’s only because I have a very limited range of motion in my ankles which affects my foot placement so I need as much support as I can get. I spoke about this with a podiatrist and with a friend of mine who works in orthotics and they were both of the opinion that if I was to race a marathon in flats my risk of injury would be very high. I tended to agree. The risk Vs benefit is just too great for me.

PBs:
Marathon 2:54
Half: 1:20:30
10k: 36:40
5m: 29:09
5k: It’s been so long I can remember.

Other than the half all others have been in the middle of marathon training and I never tapered for them.

Sporting background: Up until I was 18 or 19 I played every sport I could at every level I could. About that time I stared to get the hump with the ‘go and do a few laps to warm up’ training philosophy. I had some friends who were into fell running and orienteering and these guys knew how to train properly so I fell in with them. They were more interested in endurance events so it was an easy jump from there to the marathon.

Thanks Abhainn & Peckham. I think it went well because I had two easy days in the run up. Its good to be back but I never thought I'd see returning to Ireland in December as an opportunity for some warm weather training!!

heffsarmy

Your training is going really well, that 22 miler is a good solid run, will give you plenty of confidence. Whats your marathon pace at the moment? Have you got a race lined up in the new year to give a you a better indication.

dermCu

Week ending 20th Dec:

Mon 14th 10 @ 7:20m/m
Tue 15th 10 @ 6:40 m/m
Wed 16th 14.14 @ 7:16
Thur 17th 10 @ 7:15
Fri 18th Dec: Nothing.
Sat 19th Dec: Croagh Patrick 1:20 - I'm putting that down as 4.48 miles
Sun 20th Dec. 22 @ 6:57 2:33

70 miles. Am a bit frustrated with how Fri & Sat worked out. I thought I'd hit 80 last week.

dermCu

Mon 21st: 10 @ 7:16 This was suposed to be a recovery run. A nearby GAA club has a 1/2 mile loop around their training pitches so got out on that for around 20 laps. Its compacted sand so better than dark icey backroads. All was going well until some young guy stepped on the to the track and pretty much decided he was going to take me on. I knew it was wrong but I took the bait anyway. A couple of 6 minute miles took care of him. Not big or clever by me but we both finished at the same time and had a bit of a chuckle about it.

Tue 22nd: 15 @ 6:59 - Wasnt so smart after Mondays 6 min miles, took a little while to get into the swing of things.

Thanks Heff. Marathon pace is 6:30 m/m. You are right its probably about time for me to get a race in. I might be going on holidays on the first or second week of January for a week. Nothing confirmed yet. Might look for a 10k or even 10 mile on the weekend of the 23rd of Jan.