Has anyone ever decided not to argue with a religious person?

hobochris

As the title says, Has anyone ever decided not to argue with a religious person?

For example, if you have a friend who doesn't rub his/her religion in anyone's face, but, at the same time is a believer non the less.

Would you argue a point against religion with them knowing that you may make them question their religion and in term shake their belief system to the very core and inadvertently have a knock on effect on there happiness?

Or would you bite your tongue and let them carry on believing knowing that their religion makes them happy and they are not hurting anyone as they don't go waving their religion around in peoples faces even though you can see massive holes in their beliefs?

Sam Vimes

Regularly. If I was to argue with every religious person I met I'd never get anything done

I very rarely if ever talk about religion IRL to be honest, unless it's taking the piss out of it with like minded people

Dades

OP, outside of the internet, you'll find it much rarer for people to argue than to not argue.

biko

A lot of my friends and family are spiritual (somewhat Christian or new age) and we do have arguments over this.
I don't (usually) initiate it but if someone starts talking about religion etc I'm there like a flash

Turtwig

Sure all the time,because they could go like this...

[NSFW]

geuro

I suppose I am atheist. Either that or agnostic. I have some spiritual belief i suppose, but not a recognised faith.

When i look at the atheist posts on boards.ie, it always strikes me as strange the way atheists feel the need to constantly go on about being athesit, and constantly feel the need to seek out and argue with people who have a faith. I mean, why bother? You don't believe. Fine. Who cares?

Edit: What a psycho mom!

Goduznt Xzst

At most, I'd have a discussion with someone Religious, rather than instigate an argument. That being said, like the above video, any form of expression of disbelief with some people is blasphemy to them and a personal insult so they can't help getting worked up about it.

I also won't back down if pushed by the Religious into an argument. But even then it will go as far as asking them a series of questions and telling them to come back to me when they have researched the answers for them. Arguing subjective opinions on a Religion is pointless unless both parties are aware of the material being discussed.

In my circle of friends I wouldn't rate any of them higher than agnostic, maybe deist at a push. I could not associate with someone who expected us to be quiet while they prayed for their meal, or was constantly thanking God and claiming to pray for us at every event in our lives.

Mark Hamill

geuro wrote: »

When i look at the atheist posts on boards.ie, it always strikes me as strange the way atheists feel the need to constantly go on about being athesit, and constantly feel the need to seek out and argue with people who have a faith.

Dont fall afoul of confirmational bias. You are on an atheist forum, so its only to be expected that all the posts here are about being atheist, but dont assume that all most atheists do outside this forum, or outside the internet, is constantly go on about being atheists.

geuro wrote: »

I mean, why bother? You don't believe. Fine. Who cares?

Well, the atheists obviously care, and when you have things like an education system that can discriminate based on religion, laws agianst blasphemy and the like, can you really blame us?

Mark Hamill

In terms of the OP, sure there are plenty of times that I have chosen not to argue with a religious person, wether or not I argue with a religious person usually depends on the claims they happen to making.

Zulu

I don't even bother to argue on the internet about it.

krudler

That video is hilarious "you're not getting anything for christmas, because thats what its about, jesus!" yes Jesus intended us all to get nintendo Wiis to mark the birth of himself

MagicMarker

Nope, don't really talk about religion at all. Only time it comes up is if someone sees me reading a book on the subject.

I work with (sitting pretty close to) a Jehovah's Witness and religion has never come up. He has more than likely seen the books I read and hasn't brought it up himself so.... Although I wouldn't mind talking to him about it.

Owen

As soon as I saw one user in the Christianity forum defending his belief that his wife was speaking to God, and God was literally speaking back to her, and that she could hear him as she could hear a normal person, well, that'd put my definition of religious nutcase right out of perspective. No way I'd bother arguing with anyone that passionate that could believe such things.

Dades

geuro wrote: »

When i look at the atheist posts on boards.ie, it always strikes me as strange the way atheists feel the need to constantly go on about being athesit, and constantly feel the need to seek out and argue with people who have a faith. I mean, why bother? You don't believe. Fine. Who cares?

I presume your next stop is the Vegan & Vegetarian forum to tell them to get over not eating meat?

eoin5

geuro wrote: »

why bother?

Why not, its interesting :rolleyes:

Charlie3dan

A guy in college was a highly religious.
If I ever discussed religion with him, everyone would look at me as if I were telling a child there's no Santa.
People generally agreed with me but they thought "you can't say that to him he's a believer" or whatever. A fine example of religion being shown too much respect.

So I avoided talking about religion alot.
We ended up being good friends but there was always the elephant in the room.

Goduznt Xzst

Dades wrote: »

I presume your next stop is the Vegan & Vegetarian forum to tell them to get over not eating meat?

That's the umpteenth time you've said that in the last few months :pac: I'm sure the V&V'rs are scratching their heads as to why so many disgruntled Christians are showing up in their forum.

Dades

Goduznt Xzst wrote:

I'm sure the V&V'rs are scratching their heads as to why so many disgruntled Christians are showing up in their forum.

ROFL!

As long as people keep dropping by to ask us why we're talking about not-believing I'll keep sending them to ask veggies why they don't just STFU!

Turtwig

Charlie3dan wrote: »

An fine example of religion being shown too much respect.

One of fav quotes of all time...

Religion... has certain ideas at the heart of it which we call sacred or holy or whatever. What it means is, 'Here is an idea or notion that you're not allowed to say anything bad about; you're just not. Why not? - because you're not!'

Dades wrote: »

ROFL!

As long as people keep dropping by to ask us why we're talking about not-believing I'll keep sending them to ask veggies why they don't just STFU!

Don't we have some veggies here though?

Mark Hamill

Malty_T wrote: »

Don't we have some veggies here though?

Me:)

Dades

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Me:)

No God, no meat - what do you believe in?

Turtwig

Dades wrote: »

No God, no meat - what do you believe in?

It better be science.:mad:

Mark Hamill

Malty_T wrote: »

It better be science.:mad:

Oh no, Malty is going to kick my ass if I dont believe in science
Fortunately I do believe in the scientific method .

liamw

Dades wrote: »

ROFL!

As long as people keep dropping by to ask us why we're talking about not-believing I'll keep sending them to ask veggies why they don't just STFU!

I don't think it's a good analogy really. It's quite obvious to people why veggies dislike eating meat due to animal cruelty, morals etc.

However, it's not so obvious to most people why atheists bother to argue against religion since most people don't see any harm in religion at all, and see it as a good thing.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that the analogy stands, I just don't think most people would get it

Lemondrop kid

Well if it came down to a choice between no God = no xmas pressies then i'd just just have to convert.

No xmas pressies people. think about it.:D

Ickle Magoo

liamw wrote: »

However, it's not so obvious to most people why atheists bother to argue against religion since most people don't see any harm in religion at all, and see it as a good thing....

Sad but true. I have lost count of the discussions we've had with various friends and relatives about the education system alone, most people just assume as it did them no harm it's great, no thought to those that it discriminates against.

On the topic of arguing with religious people - I think I've only done that here. Outside of Boards most of the people we spend time with are similar to us, others we have had debates or discussions with but I can't remember ever arguing with someone about religion irl - there's not much point, I don't care if other people want to be religious, I only care when a religion detrimentally infringes on my life and the rights of my children...which tends to be the recurring theme in the arguments here.

Ickle Magoo

Lemondrop kid wrote: »

No xmas pressies people. think about it.:D

Wouldn't we just revert back to Yuletide presents or Isis day presents or Mithras prezzies - or whatever there was before Christianity swallowed it. :cool:

Lemondrop kid

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Wouldn't we just revert back to Yuletide presents or Isis day presents or Mithras prezzies - or whatever there was before Christianity swallowed it. :cool:

Em, unfortunately there is no 'tongue firmly in cheek' emoticon.

lmaopml

hobochris wrote: »

As the title says, Has anyone ever decided not to argue with a religious person?

For example, if you have a friend who doesn't rub his/her religion in anyone's face, but, at the same time is a believer non the less.

Would you argue a point against religion with them knowing that you may make them question their religion and in term shake their belief system to the very core and inadvertently have a knock on effect on there happiness?

Or would you bite your tongue and let them carry on believing knowing that their religion makes them happy and they are not hurting anyone as they don't go waving their religion around in peoples faces even though you can see massive holes in their beliefs?

Hi hobochris

I don't think there is anything wrong with a good ole barny every now and then it clears the air

I've got lots of Atheist pals who I talk and discuss my faith with if the topic comes up....Most of them know I'm not about to bash them with my bible, and it's usually respectful intelligent debate which I quite enjoy...I guess Atheists come in all varieties kinda like Christians too...and I would count some of them among my very good friends.

It strengthens my faith, and perhaps it strengthens their own worldview too I dunno...

..but it's fun, and it's good to talk! Sure what else would we be doing? Changing more nappies? Housework? all that dull stuff..lol..

Ickle Magoo

Lemondrop kid wrote: »

Em, unfortunately there is no 'tounge firmly in cheek' emoticon.

I assumed you said it tongue in cheek, I was - equally as tongue in cheek - suggesting an alternative to having to do without prezzies...my bad typing tone, sorry.

Lemondrop kid

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I assumed you said it tongue in cheek, I was - equally as tongue in cheek - suggesting an alternative to having to do without prezzies...my bad typing tone, sorry.

Hey, wasn't there a time one could design emoticons on hotmail or somewhere? I can see it now, one side of the face with a bulbous curve, course it might be misunderstood as toothache or something...

Ickle Magoo

Lemondrop kid wrote: »

Hey, wasn't there a time one could design emoticons on hotmail or somewhere? I can see it now, one side of the face with a bulbous curve, course it might be misunderstood as toothache or something...

I thought my avi would be sufficient to warn of a mostly sarcastic, often acerbic nature. :pac:

Lemondrop kid

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I thought my avi would be sufficient to warn of a mostly sarcastic, often acerbic nature. :pac:

Yes, just noticed that emoticon.
Acerbic??? That's MY word. I introduced that into mainstream media when only obscure theatre critics used it.:P

Ickle Magoo

JimiTime

Charlie3dan wrote: »

A guy in college was a highly religious.
If I ever discussed religion with him, everyone would look at me as if I were telling a child there's no Santa.
People generally agreed with me but they thought "you can't say that to him he's a believer" or whatever. A fine example of religion being shown too much respect.

So I avoided talking about religion alot.
We ended up being good friends but there was always the elephant in the room.

Respect???!! I find the above far from respectful. Give me a fire breathing atheist not afraid of being honest (That doesn't mean he should lack tact and be a pr!ck of course), than some little 'aww don't offend the believer' pansy!!

It reminds me of people who like to get offended for others. Oh but that may offend some sikh\muslim\christian\nazi\cannibal\whatever! If you're not offended, then STFU and let people talk and feel for themselves!Muppets of the highest order!

Valmont

I would have absolutely no life or time to do anything if I decided to argue about religion every time it came up. Honestly, I've always felt atheism to be an implicit value. As soon as I actually thought about religion a few years back (around the time I joined boards), I came to my conclusion and to an extent, internalised it more and more over time. I don't really care to waste my time arguing with people who I know will not be swayed anyway. Although this is the very thing that some of you masochists actually enjoy:P

liamw

Valmont wrote: »

I don't really care to waste my time arguing with people who I know will not be swayed anyway. Although this is the very thing that some of you masochists actually enjoy:P

That's a little hypocritical considering you got swayed, and so did I. Although, I take your point, if you're actually 'religious' an argument won't sway anyone. The fact is though, 99% of people are token religious and if they bothered to think about it would realise it's all a bunch of nonsense.

Valmont

liamw wrote: »

That's a little hypocritical considering you got swayed,

I wasn't swayed by anyone. I thought about it myself for a while and came to my own conclusions. Now obviously, I read a little bit here and there but the decision was my own.

liamw

Valmont wrote: »

I wasn't swayed by anyone. I thought about it myself for a while and came to my own conclusions. Now obviously, I read a little bit here and there but the decision was my own.

I'm not saying somebody specifically swayed you, but you thought about it and it probably got reinforced by some of the prominent atheist books and forums online.

I'm just saying I don't think it's a waste of time necessarily to criticize religion. It might spark off some real thought on the subject.

Charlie3dan

JimiTime wrote: »

Respect???!! I find the above far from respectful. Give me a fire breathing atheist not afraid of being honest (That doesn't mean he should lack tact and be a pr!ck of course), than some little 'aww don't offend the believer' pansy!!

I mean respect in the sense that people felt they couldn't argue against religion because it's supposed to be holy and virtuous. If it had been any other topic, nobody would hesitate to give their opinion.

Literally the closest thing I can compare it to is a child believing in Santa (the way people in my class treated this guy).
"Don't let on that there's no santa because little tommy believes and you could crush his whole belief system".

People were actually more offended by me arguing with the guy than they were with the guy expressing his righteous sermons.

Flamed Diving

I lived with two Creationist Christians for a year and I pretty much avoided the topic, unless I had a genuine question of curiosity.

I used to get peeved when I would stumble upon the odd anti-evolution book, though.

mechcit

hobochris wrote: »

As the title says, Has anyone ever decided not to argue with a religious person?

For example, if you have a friend who doesn't rub his/her religion in anyone's face, but, at the same time is a believer non the less.

Would you argue a point against religion with them knowing that you may make them question their religion and in term shake their belief system to the very core and inadvertently have a knock on effect on there happiness?

Or would you bite your tongue and let them carry on believing knowing that their religion makes them happy and they are not hurting anyone as they don't go waving their religion around in peoples faces even though you can see massive holes in their beliefs?

I was stopped once in the street by a Jahovas witness. I am not at all religous, leaning towards the agnostic side of things. He asked me something to do with how often do I attend mass. I told him never and he assumed it was out of lazyness and started to preach to me about his church and what they believe, saying that if I was brought up under his belief system that I would have a strong belief.

I then cut him short and told him that it has nothing to do with the way I was brought up. I told him that it just wasn't catholisism that I didn't believe in, it was all religion. He then gave up trying to preach to me (seeing me as a lost cause).

We then had a 15 minute conversation in the street about are lives and he turned out to be a pretty nice guy who was from Canada. Once religion was taken out of the equation we got on, which I think would be true of many situations involving religion.

ChocolateSauce

Flamed Diving wrote: »

I used to get peeved when I would stumble upon the odd anti-evolution book, though.

They had some in my school library (in the science section!) in second level. It really peeved me, and when I asked that they be at least removed to the religion section I was refused. It turns out that they belonged to a teacher who was also a born again Christian and who denied evolution in his history class. The logic was that since evolution was a scientific subject, anti-evolution material also belonged in the science section.

For the good of humanity, I misappropriated them, and they now reside safely on my own shelves, alongside Harun Yahya's atlas of creation, which I'll bring to the next beers so people can actually see the 1000 page glossy A3 monstrosity!

Zillah

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

alongside Harun Yahya's atlas of creation, which I'll bring to the next beers so people can actually see the 1000 page glossy A3 monstrosity!

Awesome! I really wanted a copy of that.

Rb

Yes, I have actively decided not to argue with a religious person before. It was in work and the subject of God came up, to which I merely remarked that I felt God was as real as Santa and had no reason to believe otherwise. A colleague soon became quite animated and started questioning whether I really believed we really "came from monkeys" and then going on to ignorantly dismiss the entire theory of evolution.

At that moment I had two choices; one was to point out what an ignorant little cretin he had exposed himself to be, the other was to bite my lip, change the topic and get on with our friendship.

I just couldn't see a reason to enter a debate on such a subject with someone who could get so animated and genuinely angry at the suggestion that we indeed weren't made by a scary sky fairy, in his own image, and who believes instead that we're the inbred descendants of two people who got f*cked out of a magical garden for eating an apple that a snake told us to.

I would also never enter a debate with someone who claims to accept evolution while still holding to the rest of the crap from the Bible. I lose a lot of respect instantly for people who expose themselves as this type of theist.

lmaopml

Rb wrote: »

I would also never enter a debate with someone who claims to accept evolution while still holding to the rest of the crap from the Bible. I lose a lot of respect instantly for people who expose themselves as this type of theist.

Well, I'm truely sorry to hear it Rb. It's a sad day, to my mind that we can explain, and rebuke 'everything' through the theory of evolution, and form a complete new 'worldview' through it??. I firmly accept the theory, but am fairly traditional in my beliefs because I understand the historical context.....I don't understand the all new 'blaze' way.........I'm sorry you feel that way about your 'fellow' man?

If you think I am 'inferior', so be it! Who will care in a hundred years when we're both long gone...not me or you for sure!!


If your 'right', I won't feel it! Like I didn't before I was ever born.

If I'm right, then I look forward to the 're-union' and to meeting the creator of this beautiful and extremely fragile and chancy existence I have found myself conscious and all of a sudden aware of....I find believing in multiple universes more headwrecking with 'chance' of us existing, then I do in a Creator.


Anyway, we're fabulous creatures, and we should enjoy our existence and live in peace with one another - that would be my version of biological and 'natural' extremely advanced 'utopia'....

and I learned that from my 'faith'! However Ironic that may sound

Sam Vimes

lmaopml wrote: »

If your 'right', I won't feel it! Like I didn't before I was ever born.

If I'm right, then I look forward to the 're-union' and to meeting the creator of this beautiful and extremely fragile and chancy existence I have found myself conscious and all of a sudden aware of....I find believing in multiple universes more headwrecking with 'chance' of us existing, then I do in a Creator.

Ah Pascal's wager, one of the most flawed thoughts ever to come from a human mind. We both better hope the muslims aren't right and while we're alive I look forward to many happy years not wasted worshipping a false god and I'm also happy that I don't feel the need to get my moral and life guidance from, and to justify a book written by primitives pretending to have divine inspiration so they could use the "god says so" argument to condone things like slavery

marco_polo

hobochris wrote: »

As the title says, Has anyone ever decided not to argue with a religious person?

For example, if you have a friend who doesn't rub his/her religion in anyone's face, but, at the same time is a believer non the less.

Would you argue a point against religion with them knowing that you may make them question their religion and in term shake their belief system to the very core and inadvertently have a knock on effect on there happiness?

Or would you bite your tongue and let them carry on believing knowing that their religion makes them happy and they are not hurting anyone as they don't go waving their religion around in peoples faces even though you can see massive holes in their beliefs?

I tend not to bite unless backed into a corner.

Turtwig

Rb wrote: »

I would also never enter a debate with someone who claims to accept evolution while still holding to the rest of the crap from the Bible. I lose a lot of respect instantly for people who expose themselves as this type of theist.

I'm sorry but that's an awful attitude to have.
I'd love to have a chat with Kenneth Miller or someone else like him. Why would I pass it up because I disagree with them on theological or philosophical point of view. They're (like us) closer to the truth than the nutty fundie anyday - whatever the truth actually is.

rohatch

Rb wrote: »

Yes, I have actively decided not to argue with a religious person before. It was in work and the subject of God came up, to which I merely remarked that I felt God was as real as Santa and had no reason to believe otherwise.

I would also never enter a debate with someone who claims to accept evolution while still holding to the rest of the crap from the Bible. I lose a lot of respect instantly for people who expose themselves as this type of theist.

Yeah I agree, you cannot use the bible as proof of anything. All the evidence says it is fiction.

liamw wrote: »

That's a little hypocritical considering you got swayed, and so did I. Although, I take your point, if you're actually 'religious' an argument won't sway anyone. The fact is though, 99% of people are token religious and if they bothered to think about it would realise it's all a bunch of nonsense.

Well said.

Rb

lmaopml wrote: »

Well, I'm truely sorry to hear it Rb. It's a sad day, to my mind that we can explain, and rebuke 'everything' through the theory of evolution, and form a complete new 'worldview' through it??. I firmly accept the theory, but am fairly traditional in my beliefs because I understand the historical context.....I don't understand the all new 'blaze' way.........I'm sorry you feel that way about your 'fellow' man?

If you think I am 'inferior', so be it! Who will care in a hundred years when we're both long gone...not me or you for sure!!

If your 'right', I won't feel it! Like I didn't before I was ever born.

If I'm right, then I look forward to the 're-union' and to meeting the creator of this beautiful and extremely fragile and chancy existence I have found myself conscious and all of a sudden aware of....I find believing in multiple universes more headwrecking with 'chance' of us existing, then I do in a Creator.

Anyway, we're fabulous creatures, and we should enjoy our existence and live in peace with one another - that would be my version of biological and 'natural' extremely advanced 'utopia'....

and I learned that from my 'faith'! However Ironic that may sound

I've an immeasurable amount more respect for Creationists than I do for these flaccid "believers" who claim to accept evolution whilst maintaining that the rest of the Bible is accurate.

As we as a society become more knowledgeable about the world we live in and the forces we deal with every day, our Christian counterparts slowly realise the absolute insanity presented in some of the Bible "teachings" and try to discard it as metaphorical or merely a story, where the previous generations would have taken them literally. They realise how ridiculous these passages are and try to downplay their presence in the religion.

Not to mention the heavy editing of what we know as the Bible today, and the other looney tripe that was discarded even years ago as they knew it would make the religion look ridiculous.

It's bullshit, plain and simple really and I won't deal with people who realise the stupidity of some of the teachings in their religion and pick and choose between the bible and science as it suits them. So, as I said, I've an immeasurable amount of respect more for Creationists and others who take the Bible and its teachings literally than I do the people I just described, and I will never bother discussing such topics with people the latter.

Also, as Sam Vimes said, research Pascals Wager and the arguments for and against it, you'll soon come to realise what a farce that concept is in itself.

Malty_T wrote: »

I'm sorry but that's an awful attitude to have.
I'd love to have a chat with Kenneth Miller or someone else like him. Why would I pass it up because I disagree with them on theological or philosophical point of view. They're (like us) closer to the truth than the nutty fundie anyday - whatever the truth actually is.

Well, I'd be happy to chat with them, just not on theology or philosophy

Indeed they're closer to the truth yet are accepting some truths and jamming their "God" in everywhere else that they don't yet understand, or are too frightened to face.