Waterford Town

justin007

Actually also waterford as a fifth largest city in ireland， but never feel like a city， such as city center where does not have enough modern buildings or fashion shops that people can go 。 Waterford City Council people shoud be go out and visit other city。 Pay more attetion on how to develop waterford become a good city in ireland。 Waterford has not been a big changed in the recent years 。 Also we look forward to seeing a new waterford in the future。

googlefan

Free parking in parts of Dublin city centre after 2pm Thurs-Sunday for the Christmas period.

rude awakening

for starters we need a HMV cos we only have two music stores in the city so not much competition there. and what happened to talks of making the old cinema a night club? have they died down

abouttobebanned

rude awakening wrote: »

for starters we need a HMV cos we only have two music stores in the city so not much competition there. and what happened to talks of making the old cinema a night club? have they died down

Sure hardly anyone visits the night clubs we have at the moment, don't think we need another.

rude awakening

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Sure hardly anyone visits the night clubs we have at the moment, don't think we need another.

doesn’t necessarily have to be a night club, just saying that was the rumor at the time, all they have to do is change it into something that will bring more people into the town, u know like Brown Thomas, HMV itself even, there’s already a restaurant in Patrick street so no point in putting another there

chrism2007

if i heard it right on the telly this morning they were saying how Cork and Dublin have brought in free parking

they were saying that Waterford, although a good place to shop is doing nothing to attract shoppers

spaceylou

I've read over what everyone else has said and while I agree with the general theme of what is being said there were one or two things I feel the need to stick my two cents worth in about.....

1. Parking: maybe this is because i spent the last few years living in dublin and abroad but to pay for parking seems totally natural to me, its not that expensive, and because it deters people from abandoning their cars for the entire day in certain areas (people working can use millers marsh etc for the full day) I can almost always get parking close to where the shops are.

Now maybe to encourage shopping in the run up to christmas, more could be done than making parking half-price in the mornings mon - fri but surely we want the city/town to be alive all year round so this would only be a short-term solution - if indeed the lack of free parking is a problem at all.

2. Whether we are called a city or a town is pretty irrelevant - its only a name, and even Dublin 'our big city', would be considered a large town in some countries.

3. People seem to have honed in on the lack of nightlife and I know that the pub is a big part of irish culture but by saying that, and not accepting that there is a need for something more than pubs, we fail to cater for people (irish or otherwise) who would rather not have their social life revolve around the pub. We need more cafes, and I don't mean more chain type stores with passable coffee that close at 6pm, I mean cafes that do decent coffee, teas etc, have an atmosphere, good affordable food - no matter if you are looking for a snack or a meal, and we need to support the ones we do have, otherwise no where new will open.

4. We really really really need to promote what we have. The waterford today, for example, which I am guessing makes all of its revenue from ads seen as it is delivered free around the city always seems to be full of ads for events that are booked out, or already took place. And I do tend to read it the day its delievered so its is not that I am leaving it too late to read it! And that is just one example of how we don't promote events. The arts festival was on back in october, and while I know most of the events were well attended, the amount of people who didn't know it was on, was astounding. Even if they weren't intersted, they should have been able to tell other people that it was on.

Okay, this post is longer than i intended, but we (as the citizens of waterford) need to take pride in our city/town and promote what we have, rather than laying the blame for the slow painful death of the cbd at 'other' peoples feet, and we need to realise that having a 'hmv' or an 'M&S' or a pub where The Stand used to be won't solve our woes, nor will free parking.

Bards

..what really gets on my nerve is Waterford Poeple talking down our CITY and that lobster attitude of draggin everyone down to their level

you would not find a Kilkenny person referring to their city as a town

If we're not going to promote our City how can we expect others to do it for us

Green Hornet

Bards wrote: »

..what really gets on my nerve is Waterford Poeple talking down our CITY and that lobster attitude of draggin everyone down to their level

you would not find a Kilkenny person referring to their city as a town

If we're not going to promote our City how can we expect others to do it for us

Sorry if it offends Bards but I think most people outside of Waterford do regard Waterford as a town. Same goes for Kilkenny for that matter.

Bards

Green Hornet wrote: »

Sorry if it offends Bards but I think most people outside of Waterford do regard Waterford as a town. Same goes for Kilkenny for that matter.

... where are your facts to back this up....

who do you call "Most People"????

Dubs perhaps, who think that anything outseide the Pale is - "down the country"

or are these the same people when Galway was smaller than Waterford still regarded Galway as a CITY????

road_high

Waterford city on RTE news there, re budget day.

merlante

The only thing that holds Waterford back is Waterford people. Waterford people, by and large, are a fairly miserable do-nothing, whinging bunch. Sad to say as a Waterford man, but it's true.

Evidence:
1. There is plenty of nightlife, but Waterford people would rather die than support it. They weren't out in town in 2 years, but they're sure there's nothing there anyway. But didn't we have a great laugh in place X? I suppose... You won't pay Bub Twaddy's prices, well why don't you go to place Y? Ah, I'd never go in there boy. Is that place not closed down?

2. People who live outside the centre don't come in anymore, they don't realise that new businesses are opening all the time on O'Connell st and the Quay,etc. They don't know about Berfranks on the Quay, haven't realised there's a new Londis on the Quay/O'Connell st., barely aware that the Theatre Royal has even been done up, let alone that it has a cafe open inside it, Lemon Grass. They probably don't realise that practically every weekend there is something going on in the city centre, whether it's a food festival or something else. Sure there's no restaurants in Waterford boy. Despite the fact we have a restaurants quarter on High st. There's no pubs in the city centre. There are a ton of pubs in the city centre, just not in the 100m radius of the cross... except the (nearly) the Tap room, the Gingerman, and T&H's. What about the fact that Waterford has a nightlife centre? So what if there isin't a pub beside Penneys.

3. There's no parking in Waterford and it's too expensive. There is always parking in Waterford and it's relatively cheap, it's just you've been living out on the Dunmore rd. too long and want a big dirty free car park outside every building, ala Tesco Ardkeen. (Why not learn to parallel park?)

4. Whenever an apartment building is/was built in Waterford, it's going to be a slum. Thank god for 'slums' that house people like students and migrants, because they've breathed life back into the city centre that the natives are incapable of doing. The scales in the Spirit gym is more often set to kilograms than stone and lbs -- that gives me some hope for Waterford, that maybe the negativity will be bred out of us, by groups of people that actually open businesses and take risks.

If people would just stop whinging and actually take part in what's going on, there would be no problem. There was never such a bunch of people in history to point the finger at everyone except themselves. They complain there's nothing and when you point out what's there, they turn up their nose like they wouldn't **** on it. If it was in Galway it would be the dog's bollocks of course. The biggest pack of begrudgers in a pretty begrudging country. The sort of people who'd boycott your business and tarnish a person's name just for trying to make something of themselves. But maybe the place is just too inbred and corrupt to wish people well, but I'd rather be optimistic.

I challenge all the whingers to come into town next weekend, buy a coffee and a sandwich, and look in a few shops. If enough of ye did it, it would make a difference. But it'll be more of the same, "sure why would I go in there boy, it's a dirty **** hole with no shops?" Fair enough, **** off to Kilkenny with you then, they need the population.

AdMMM

2. People who live outside the centre don't come in anymore, they don't realise that new businesses are opening all the time on O'Connell st and the Quay,etc. They don't know about Berfranks on the Quay, haven't realised there's a new Londis on the Quay/O'Connell st., barely aware that the Theatre Royal has even been done up, let alone that it has a cafe open inside it, Lemon Grass. They probably don't realise that practically every weekend there is something going on in the city centre, whether it's a food festival or something else. Sure there's no restaurants in Waterford boy. Despite the fact we have a restaurants quarter on High st.

If that's the case then they're being marketed in an entirely incompetent way. If a business hasn't the basic sense to try appeal to it's audience, then it deserves to fail. I'm not going to wander down streets in my spare time looking for new shops or give them my custom if they aren't bothered trying to reach out to me, or whoever their target market is. Ploughing your redundancy money into a business may be admirable and courageous in these times but neglecting to advertise properly is foolish. A simple rule in marketing is that it's easier to cater towards attitudes rather than attempt to change them.

There's no pubs in the city centre. There are a ton of pubs in the city centre, just not in the 100m radius of the cross... except the (nearly) the Tap room, the Gingerman, and T&H's. What about the fact that Waterford has a nightlife centre? So what if there isin't a pub beside Penneys

Waterford is certainly well catered for in terms of night life (for the sake of convenience lets call that 11pm-2am) but is woefully deficient when it comes to evening life (6pm-11pm). There is simply no reason for people to stay in the city centre during these evening hours.

merlante

AdMMM wrote: »

If that's the case then they're being marketed in an entirely incompetent way. If a business hasn't the basic sense to try appeal to it's audience, then it deserves to fail. I'm not going to wander down streets in my spare time looking for new shops or give them my custom if they aren't bothered trying to reach out to me, or whoever their target market is. Ploughing your redundancy money into a business may be admirable and courageous in these times but neglecting to advertise properly is foolish. A simple rule in marketing is that it's easier to cater towards attitudes rather than attempt to change them.

It's not about marketing, can you honestly say that businesses aren't marketing themselves adequately? Can you say that if they were that people would necessarily come in and find them? I doubt they would.

In other places, people automatically go into town whenever they want to buy, eat, drink, etc., but not in Waterford. Often the people who are would-be business owners, many of them, don't like the city centre either, and simply don't believe that business can be done after 6pm.

There is a low level of life in the centre from 5.30pm onwards, but if you're not familiar with the centre, you might not know what's going on. The fact is, people coming in from the likes of the Dunmore rd. have a picture of Waterford from 2002 or something. A business that opened 3 years ago is 'new'. Such and such a restaurant is bad even though the place has changed name and owner since they were last there.

The city centre is surviving on the 10,000 people who live there, not the 40,000 people that live outside of it. I personally think we'd be better off building the city around the people who actually care about it than the people who go to the Uluru every week and bitch about the centre and parking incessantly. (Unfortunately, it's not the wealthy 10,000 that live there.)

And by the way, Berfranks, by way of example, is probably the best cafe in Waterford and is doing a roaring trade. City centre businesses tend to rely on a thing called footfall. When you have to market businesses that have prominent street fronts, there is something very very wrong. What kind of city centre has no passing trade? Luckily, the centre is not quite that bad.

AdMMM wrote: »

Waterford is certainly well catered for in terms of night life (for the sake of convenience lets call that 11pm-2am) but is woefully deficient when it comes to evening life (6pm-11pm). There is simply no reason for people to stay in the city centre during these evening hours.

There are a few places open and it could be a lot better, and indeed in the 90's it was a lot better. We had three cafes opening until well after midnight: Luna, Global Village and Sizzlers. But it's a two way street. The 'money' has left the city centre for the lush pastures of the Dunmore rd., and the suburbs in general. The centre will have a renaissance at some point, but attitudes have to change. I think waiting until the streets are paved with gold and until every shop and every form of entertainment and shopping is in place before setting foot there is probably not realistic. We have to live with what we've got for now, which is actually not all that bad if you make the most of it. But people don't make the most of it.

AdMMM

It's not about marketing, can you honestly say that businesses aren't marketing themselves adequately

A lot of it is about poor marketing. I live very close to the City Centre myself but I had no idea about the new restaurants opening along O'Connell St, or of the cafe you mentioned on the Quay. Both of those areas don't have enough footfall to allow them to ignore advertising. Advertising and marketing needs to be a bit more innovative than putting a small advert in the Waterford Today every week, especially during these times.

A business that opened 3 years ago is 'new'. Such and such a restaurant is bad even though the place has changed name and owner since they were last there.

This is a case of the business failing to communicate a message. I think it's wrong of you to blame the people for not realising there's a change in owner, name or both.

I think waiting until the streets are paved with gold and until every shop and every form of entertainment and shopping is in place before setting foot there is probably not realistic. We have to live with what we've got for now, which is actually not all that bad if you make the most of it. But people don't make the most of it.

Essentially we have a stand off. People aren't going to go into the City Centre unless there's well organised and well advertised activities. Businesses/Organisations aren't going to develop these activities because there's nobody in the City Centre.

I realise that you live in the heart of the City Centre which is why you're acutely aware of the desolate nature of the place and of the various activities that are going on too. Understand that people who live outside the City Centre and come in to work in the morning and travel home in the evening aren't aware of such things.

Even those that are aware, may not see any added benefit in going there if they're already content with what is convenient to them. Your argument all along seems to be that the City Centre isn't all that bad and that there's enough to do. The problem is that the outskirts of the city has more than enough facilities to be content with. Convince those living in the outskirts that the Centre has more to offer and we'll have won half the battle.

Psychedelic

AdMMM wrote: »

A lot of it is about poor marketing. I live very close to the City Centre myself but I had no idea about the new restaurants opening along O'Connell St, or of the cafe you mentioned on the Quay. Both of those areas don't have enough footfall to allow them to ignore advertising. Advertising and marketing needs to be a bit more innovative than putting a small advert in the Waterford Today every week, especially during these times.

An advert in the Waterford Today isn't good enough? That paper is delivered to nearly every home in the city I think, how can that not be an effective way for a business to inform people about their business? What do you want them to do exactly? Why does it have to be innovative? Do you see an advert and go "ah look at that, a new business has opened up in the city centre....oh wait, they've only advertised in the Waterford Today, not innovative enough for me, won't be checking them out."

AdMMM wrote: »

Essentially we have a stand off. People aren't going to go into the City Centre unless there's well organised and well advertised activities. Businesses/Organisations aren't going to develop these activities because there's nobody in the City Centre.

Do you not read the local papers? They all have websites too so check them out and find out what's happening in the city. No excuses for not knowing what's going on. Have a listen to WLR or Beat, you can do that online too. There is a sticky thread on this very forum with events on in the city - check it out. Visit upthedeise.com and other local websites. What do you want the businesses and event promoters to do? Do you expect them to spoon feed you the information or something?

AdMMM wrote: »

I realise that you live in the heart of the City Centre which is why you're acutely aware of the desolate nature of the place and of the various activities that are going on too. Understand that people who live outside the City Centre and come in to work in the morning and travel home in the evening aren't aware of such things.

I live in Tramore, work in the city centre yet I'm well aware of a lot of the new shops opening and the other events happening.

AdMMM wrote: »

Even those that are aware, may not see any added benefit in going there if they're already content with what is convenient to them. Your argument all along seems to be that the City Centre isn't all that bad and that there's enough to do. The problem is that the outskirts of the city has more than enough facilities to be content with. Convince those living in the outskirts that the Centre has more to offer and we'll have won half the battle.

No nightclubs, no theatres, no Forum and no cinemas in the suburbs.

AdMMM

An advert in the Waterford Today isn't good enough? That paper is delivered to nearly every home in the city I think, how can that not be an effective way for a business to inform people about their business? What do you want them to do exactly? Why does it have to be innovative? Do you see an advert and go "ah look at that, a new business has opened up in the city centre....oh wait, they've only advertised in the Waterford Today, not innovative enough for me, won't be checking them out."

It's a way to reach customers, yes. However, stuffing your ad in beside a tonne of other ads doesn't really achieve much at the end of the day. Unless you're looking for ads, which I can tell you most people are not. Rapid Cabs delivered a fridge magnet a few years back which had the numbers of all the restuarants in Waterford (well, all the ones who participated). Something like that is very effective as it's relatively cheap to produce, it serves a purpose and is unlikely to be thrown out. Of course it also benefited all parties with Rapid Cabs getting the extra taxi trade from people who wanted to have a bottle of wine with their meal and the restaurants themselves being able get their name out there and attract new customers.

By all means, companies should use the Waterford Today to advertise but they should be aware that just because it's distributed to 40,000 people doesn't mean that 40,000 will read it. Only a fraction of the people will be exposed to the ad and a fraction of that will be interested in it.

"ah look at that, a new business has opened up in the city centre....oh wait, they've only advertised in the Waterford Today, not innovative enough for me, won't be checking them out."

Interesting that you should raise that. A lot of people will completely disregard an advert in something that they have little value in. A paper like the Waterford Today is wholly supported by advertising revenue so on the face of it, its content wouldn't be something many consider to be credible. However, if the same ad was to appear in the News and Star or Munster Express then it would most likely yield a better response.

So in essence, no, the Waterford Today isn't enough.

Do you not read the local papers? They all have websites too so check them out and find out what's happening in the city. No excuses for not knowing what's going on. Have a listen to WLR or Beat, you can do that online too. There is a sticky thread on this very forum with events on in the city - check it out. Visit upthedeise.com and other local websites. What do you want the businesses and event promoters to do? Do you expect them to spoon feed you the information or something?

Guides like Whazon are brilliant for local events and something like that is much more effective than Radio for advertising events. In fact, Radio is probably the worst medium for advertising events given that listeners are often distracted while listening (be it driving or at home doing housework) so it's very easy for them to miss important pieces of information such as the date and time. Even in this hyper-connected age, very few people would follow up on something they vaguely heard on the radio unless it was something that really interested them. Social Networking is the obvious way to appeal to younger generation but the only evidence I've seen of such campaigns has been those ran by Heineken and Corrs to promote their music events around the town. Facebook is an extremely cost-effective way of reaching a target audience but it seems many local businesses are hesitant to get involved!

As for your references to Boards and Up The Deise, the vast majority of people have never heard of either site. Although in saying that, the Waterford Dictionary would have done wonders for UTD so hopefully they've been able to convert some non-believers over the years.

I live in Tramore, work in the city centre yet I'm well aware of a lot of the new shops opening and the other events happening.

Em... well done???

No nightclubs, no theatres, no Forum and no cinemas in the suburbs.

I don't really get what you're trying to prove here. Or you entirely misinterpreted my previous post. People still come into town to go out at night (as I said, we have a good selection of nightspots) and I think they always will come into town to go out at night (the suburbs aren't a popular place to go out in any of the cities I've been to). When there's choice available for shops and restaurants, more often than not, when there's no distinct advantage of either option, they'll choose to go where's most convenient for them or where they've had positive experiences before.

gscully

merlante wrote: »

3. There's no parking in Waterford and it's too expensive. There is always parking in Waterford and it's relatively cheap, it's just you've been living out on the Dunmore rd. too long and want a big dirty free car park outside every building, ala Tesco Ardkeen. (Why not learn to parallel park?)

merlante wrote: »

There is a low level of life in the centre from 5.30pm onwards, but if you're not familiar with the centre, you might not know what's going on. The fact is, people coming in from the likes of the Dunmore rd. have a picture of Waterford from 2002 or something. A business that opened 3 years ago is 'new'. Such and such a restaurant is bad even though the place has changed name and owner since they were last there.

The city centre is surviving on the 10,000 people who live there, not the 40,000 people that live outside of it. I personally think we'd be better off building the city around the people who actually care about it than the people who go to the Uluru every week and bitch about the centre and parking incessantly. (Unfortunately, it's not the wealthy 10,000 that live there.)

There are a few places open and it could be a lot better, and indeed in the 90's it was a lot better. We had three cafes opening until well after midnight: Luna, Global Village and Sizzlers. But it's a two way street. The 'money' has left the city centre for the lush pastures of the Dunmore rd., and the suburbs in general. The centre will have a renaissance at some point, but attitudes have to change. I think waiting until the streets are paved with gold and until every shop and every form of entertainment and shopping is in place before setting foot there is probably not realistic. We have to live with what we've got for now, which is actually not all that bad if you make the most of it. But people don't make the most of it.

You seem to have a degree of bitterness about people who live in the Dunmore Rd area. I've noticed this before in some of your posts. Do you actually believe that anyone who lives there cares nothing about the city centre? As far back as I can remember, the Kenneally's bus was always packed going into town, day and night!

As for everyone out that area being wealthy? People all over the city have been affected by the recession and unemployment, not least those on the Dunmore Rd.

Your argument might have more merit if you didn't generalise so much. The Dunmore Rd area has a diverse culture and population and that adds so much more to the city than the general begrudgery attitude you seem to have adopted.

As for the issue at hand, so what if Berfranks is the best deli in town? If it hadn't been mentioned on boards, I'd never have known about it, yet I do read Waterford Today, and I do listen to local radio, and I do go into the city centre! Not once have I seen or heard an ad for this place. No flyers have been delivered to my door! Oh, but the nasty Godfathers, Dominos, Kongs and Fans have managed to force their menus into my house. I guess they can afford the paper given their location eh? :rolleyes:

merlante wrote: »

If people would just stop whinging and actually take part in what's going on, there would be no problem. There was never such a bunch of people in history to point the finger at everyone except themselves.

Like pointing the finger at people who happen to live out the Dunmore Rd perhaps? :rolleyes:

merlante

gscully wrote: »

You seem to have a degree of bitterness about people who live in the Dunmore Rd area. I've noticed this before in some of your posts. Do you actually believe that anyone who lives there cares nothing about the city centre? As far back as I can remember, the Kenneally's bus was always packed going into town, day and night!

Well, when you selectively highlight parts of my post it would seem like that. I have zero bitterness towards the Dunmore rd., I am just trying to emphasize a dynamic that is going on in Waterford, a movement towards suburban living and an antipathy towards the centre and towards slightly difficult parking. There is a certain ignorance after growing up amongst people who would have known the centre very well as kids but not parrot generalisations that aren't necessarily true to their suburban friends.

gscully wrote: »

As for everyone out that area being wealthy? People all over the city have been affected by the recession and unemployment, not least those on the Dunmore Rd.

Your argument might have more merit if you didn't generalise so much. The Dunmore Rd area has a diverse culture and population and that adds so much more to the city than the general begrudgery attitude you seem to have adopted.

There is a great value in generalising. It gets the point through without having to do a 300 page academic study. I would hope that people don't actually think I'm referring to every man, woman and child in one specific area.

gscully wrote: »

As for the issue at hand, so what if Berfranks is the best deli in town? If it hadn't been mentioned on boards, I'd never have known about it, yet I do read Waterford Today, and I do listen to local radio, and I do go into the city centre! Not once have I seen or heard an ad for this place. No flyers have been delivered to my door! Oh, but the nasty Godfathers, Dominos, Kongs and Fans have managed to force their menus into my house. I guess they can afford the paper given their location eh? :rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure they advertised in the Waterford today, I'd be surprised if they haven't been/don't appear on WLR in the near future. The place is so busy on Saturdays you can't get in the door, so they must be doing something right.

I think the advertising and marketing argument is a red herring. I think business do advertise in general, and statistics prove that the likes of the Waterford Today and WLR do work, and offer much better bang for their buck than the likes of whazon, which another poster mentioned. The point is that Waterford people are not particularly receptive to the messages that are being sent out. I've lived in other cities in Ireland and abroad, and the typical attitude is, "I heard such and such a place has opened up, lets go there and check it out." Can anyone honestly tell me that this is the typical attitude in Waterford? Waterford people are more likely to wait 6 months to see if a place is going to close down before they will even try the place. That's all too often the attitude.

gscully wrote: »

Like pointing the finger at people who happen to live out the Dunmore Rd perhaps? :rolleyes:

People complaining about the centre incessantly, who quite clearly don't live there and fail to show an accurate knowledge and assessment of the centre, are starting to sound like a broken record imho. Many of those people do live on the Dunmore rd., lets face it. The generalisation is a useful one, just as the D4 generalisation in Dublin is a useful one. It's a dynamic that is worth recognising.

gscully

merlante wrote: »

Well, when you selectively highlight parts of my post it would seem like that. I have zero bitterness towards the Dunmore rd.

No, I selected four or five pieces from two posts of yours in this thread alone that single out the Dunmore Rd area. If there are mentions of other suburban areas, I must've missed them!

merlante wrote: »

There is a great value in generalising. It gets the point through without having to do a 300 page academic study. I would hope that people don't actually think I'm referring to every man, woman and child in one specific area..

There is never great value in generalising! Every man, woman and child is different, regardless of their situation. You reckon getting the point through is more important than displaying a true reflection of the area you're purporting to be at fault for the state of the city centre?

merlante wrote: »

I think the advertising and marketing argument is a red herring. I think business do advertise in general, and statistics prove that the likes of the Waterford Today and WLR do work, and offer much better bang for their buck than the likes of whazon, which another poster mentioned. The point is that Waterford people are not particularly receptive to the messages that are being sent out. I've lived in other cities in Ireland and abroad, and the typical attitude is, "I heard such and such a place has opened up, lets go there and check it out." Can anyone honestly tell me that this is the typical attitude in Waterford? Waterford people are more likely to wait 6 months to see if a place is going to close down before they will even try the place. That's all too often the attitude..

Places like Harveys, Escape, Twister Vicks, New York Burger etc all seem, or seemed to do well once they opened. There will always be a novelty value about a new business, but people need to know about it, not stumble across it! People are not being receptive, because they message is not being driven home to them.

merlante wrote: »

People complaining about the centre incessantly, who quite clearly don't live there and fail to show an accurate knowledge and assessment of the centre, are starting to sound like a broken record imho. Many of those people do live on the Dunmore rd., lets face it. The generalisation is a useful one, just as the D4 generalisation in Dublin is a useful one. It's a dynamic that is worth recognising.

Not really, as you're showing the reverse. I assume you don't live near the Dunmore Rd, yet you're forming a completely inaccurate assessment of the area and its people. Dublin 4 is not a good yardstick either, as people in D4 have all the amenities they need on their doorstep. The same cannot be said of any Waterford suburb!

Bards

let's remember that the best form of advertising is "Word of Mouth" - sure aren't we all talking about this place now!!

AdMMM

Bards wrote: »

let's remember that the best form of advertising is "Word of Mouth" - sure aren't we all talking about this place now!!

I think I'll wait six months or so and see how it's doing then

merlante

gscully wrote: »

No, I selected four or five pieces from two posts of yours in this thread alone that single out the Dunmore Rd area. If there are mentions of other suburban areas, I must've missed them!

That was the only suburb, or set of suburbs I listed by name, but I made it clear it is suburban life in general. Reasonably well to do middle class suburbs are what I mean in particular.

gscully wrote: »

There is never great value in generalising! Every man, woman and child is different, regardless of their situation. You reckon getting the point through is more important than displaying a true reflection of the area you're purporting to be at fault for the state of the city centre

There are whole academic disciplines, such as sociology, psychology, medicine, economics, meteorology, etc. that are based on generalisations. They help to reduce complexity and convey useful, imperfect information.

gscully wrote: »

Places like Harveys, Escape, Twister Vicks, New York Burger etc all seem, or seemed to do well once they opened. There will always be a novelty value about a new business, but people need to know about it, not stumble across it! People are not being receptive, because they message is not being driven home to them.

Well maybe it's all in my imagination then.

gscully wrote: »

Not really, as you're showing the reverse. I assume you don't live near the Dunmore Rd, yet you're forming a completely inaccurate assessment of the area and its people. Dublin 4 is not a good yardstick either, as people in D4 have all the amenities they need on their doorstep. The same cannot be said of any Waterford suburb!

Waterford is not so big a place that I don't know people from all around the city. And I include a few people from the Dunmore rd. who think that my generalisations have more than an element of truth to them. To accuse an area of being generally affluent, self-sufficient and aloof of the city centre is hardly the biggest insult in the world anyway. But the irrational (where it is irrational) anti-city centre attitude, where it exists -- in any suburb -- is what I don't like. (Enough qualifications there for you?)

I think the D4 comparison is good, because Ardkeen village has pretty much everything, between the Ardkeen stores part and the Tesco part. Friends of mine haven't been into town for ages because "everything is there". For them town is two expensive taxi rides away. I honestly feel like a tour guide when they're in town! But that's another matter.

Psychedelic

AdMMM wrote: »

Rapid Cabs delivered a fridge magnet a few years back which had the numbers of all the restuarants in Waterford (well, all the ones who participated). Something like that is very effective as it's relatively cheap to produce, it serves a purpose and is unlikely to be thrown out. Of course it also benefited all parties with Rapid Cabs getting the extra taxi trade from people who wanted to have a bottle of wine with their meal and the restaurants themselves being able get their name out there and attract new customers.

That fridge magnet was very good actually.

AdMMM wrote: »

By all means, companies should use the Waterford Today to advertise but they should be aware that just because it's distributed to 40,000 people doesn't mean that 40,000 will read it. Only a fraction of the people will be exposed to the ad and a fraction of that will be interested in it.

Interesting that you should raise that. A lot of people will completely disregard an advert in something that they have little value in. A paper like the Waterford Today is wholly supported by advertising revenue so on the face of it, its content wouldn't be something many consider to be credible. However, if the same ad was to appear in the News and Star or Munster Express then it would most likely yield a better response.

So in essence, no, the Waterford Today isn't enough.

I take your point, however you must remember that businesses have limited funds for advertising & marketing. But I guess if they don't have the money they should try come up with novel ways to gain free PR.

AdMMM wrote: »

Social Networking is the obvious way to appeal to younger generation but the only evidence I've seen of such campaigns has been those ran by Heineken and Corrs to promote their music events around the town. Facebook is an extremely cost-effective way of reaching a target audience but it seems many local businesses are hesitant to get involved!

There are actually quite a good few local businesses now using Facebook and Twitter. I don't use Facebook so don't know too many, but a lot are using Twitter. I think businesses are realising the value of social networking sites and more will start using them.

Hoffmans

waterford is only a town at best and a good bit of it is in kilkenny...

gscully

merlante wrote: »

That was the only suburb, or set of suburbs I listed by name, but I made it clear it is suburban life in general. Reasonably well to do middle class suburbs are what I mean in particular. .

Well, you did mention that particular suburb on a few occasions and backed it up with the following statement - 'I personally think we'd be better off building the city around the people who actually care about it than the people who go to the Uluru every week and bitch about the centre and parking incessantly. (Unfortunately, it's not the wealthy 10,000 that live there.)' I'm just saying that your generalisation is wrong because of the diversity of the Dunmore Rd area. Sure, you have the 'rich' areas like Kings Channel and Booterstown, but you also have the townhouses of Farmleigh, or the older estates of Viewmount and Earls Court where homes are comparable to any housing estate in the city and their inhabitants comparable also. To suggest they don't care about the city centre, or have difficulty parking their cars because of where they live is just absurd.

merlante wrote: »

There are whole academic disciplines, such as sociology, psychology, medicine, economics, meteorology, etc. that are based on generalisations. They help to reduce complexity and convey useful, imperfect information..

Yes, but are they used to put a slur on people? You suggest that inhabitants of the Dunmore Rd area don't care about the city centre and are a factor in its demise. That's just plain wrong. We all have a part to play. From us as individuals, to the city planners and retail owners. They need to make the city centre an attractive proposition...and we need to use it as a good opportunity.

merlante wrote: »

Well maybe it's all in my imagination then..

Maybe, maybe not. You haven't provided examples of places you think people don't try until they're on their knees, so I can't really come around to your line of thinking.

merlante wrote: »

Waterford is not so big a place that I don't know people from all around the city. And I include a few people from the Dunmore rd. who think that my generalisations have more than an element of truth to them. To accuse an area of being generally affluent, self-sufficient and aloof of the city centre is hardly the biggest insult in the world anyway. But the irrational (where it is irrational) anti-city centre attitude, where it exists -- in any suburb -- is what I don't like. (Enough qualifications there for you?).

I don't like it either, but it's a personal thing and I don't think it's indicative of the people as a whole in any suburb.

merlante wrote: »

I think the D4 comparison is good, because Ardkeen village has pretty much everything, between the Ardkeen stores part and the Tesco part. Friends of mine haven't been into town for ages because "everything is there". For them town is two expensive taxi rides away. I honestly feel like a tour guide when they're in town! But that's another matter.

No offence, but I reckon you and your friends are easily pleased if you think that the Ardkeen area has everything. Yes, it's grand for day-to-day shopping, eating and I guess you can make a case for drinking as there's a couple of pubs there, and a few more further out. In terms of specialised shopping, it lacks though. Next would never satisfy me for clothes shopping - poor selection, and everyone else would have the same clothes anyway. No sportswear. No cinema. Nowhere to get your photos processed in one-hour. The list goes on. You can't compare that to D4 where you have Dundrum providing almost anything you need!

ScabbyLeg

Granted I haven't been back in Waterford in about 9 months but if the Irish Times is anything to go by, the place is looking tip top indeed!

We can even use the base of that skycraper as another roundabout, everyone's a winner!

--

fricatus

Have to say I'm with Merlante on the whole middle-class suburbanites thing - despite the fact that I live out on the Dunmore Road!

I hear quite a lot of people (from all over town) saying that they rarely ever go into town, but I can't say whether that's necessarily because there's some sort of shift towards car-based suburbia, or whether it's because I'm now 36 and a lot of my friends are car based and have children. Certainly we'd have all spent most of our spare time in town in the early '90s when we were teenagers.

I don't know how this particular problem can be solved, but it's certainly not the case that the city centre is boring, desolate, dangerous, deserted, or whatever adjective you choose to use. I take a walk with my OH about three times a week down around town, and I must say I've never seen the place looking so well. Remember that it's winter and a there's a recession on the radio!

There is a huge effort being made to make the city centre attractive - look at the lights up for Christmas for example. There are tons of nice shops and eateries opening up - Penneys and Berfranks are good examples but not the only ones. This excuse about parking is a red herring. I've never had a problem finding parking. Indeed the new parking signs will in time be a great help. Sure, you have to pay for it, but to put it in context, you get more than two hours' parking for the price of a pint. It's a minor inconvenience, but it doesn't make a big dent in my budget.

What can the city centre do to win the war against suburban shopping and socialising?

Well, getting the KRM development up and running is the single biggest thing that needs to happen. Park and Ride for more distant visitors is a must. Bus services in the evening are a huge thing. Bus Éireann is planning on cutting services here, in Cork and in Limerick after 19.00. That's crazy! There's something that has to be opposed!

The Rapid Cabs restaurant guide was a great idea. I always call them to go into town, and I've often booked a restaurant after looking down through the list on my fridge. An updated one wouldn't go amiss. That's exactly the sort of thing that needs to go out to suburban homes to get more people into the centre.

I don't know what else can be done, but I think our city council is getting better at doing its job, and if it starts harnessing some of the good ideas doing the rounds (here and on UTD for example), things could be looking up.

manus30

sorry if this is slightly off topic, but i purchased a house on the dunmore road a few years ago. i am not from waterford originally, but i love living out this neck of the woods. a previous poster was comparing dunmore road residents with D4 residents, why is this so? i have come accross this attitude a lot amongst waterford people and was just curious as to why is this so?
in responce to another post, its a sad but true fact that most amenities are available on the dunmore road area and there is rarely a need to travel into the city centre for shopping, why bother when we dont need to but we should not be resented for this.

abouttobebanned

Credit where it's due, the broad street/john roberts square area looks fantastic. The Carousel, the new Christmas banners, the markets...great job organisers!