Video Games and the Female Audience

Nevyn

Best bit on this topic I have seen for a while and given the amount of threads which crop up on this which seem to have caused a permafrown on sliverfish and koneko :P I wanted to share this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8ZVZRsy8N8

Gummy Panda

wait a minute.. sliverfish and koneko are girls!?!?!!?


Seriously though, I like the point about less games for guys/girls and just good games that eveyone can enjoy e.g. NSMB Wii.

Though i will never forgive female gamers who buy those Imagine or Petz games. Its shovelware!!

Jazzy

silverfish is not a girl. in fact, i am of the opinion that girls don't exist. they have been made up in a deal done between walt disney and boots

Nevyn

Jazzy wrote: »

silverfish is not a girl.

Very true she's a woman.

Jazzy wrote: »

in fact, i am of the opinion that girls don't exist. they have been made up in a deal done between walt disney and boots

so girls are a mcguffin fair enough if what works for you

L31mr0d

The whole argument put forward in this clip makes no sense.

It's like saying women don't like watching boxing because of the chicks in hot pants that hold up the round number. If you take away the chicks, there won't suddenly be a spike in female attendance.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The issue isn't the games (if I see Ivy wearing business casual in Soul Calibre V I swear to god, I won't be held accountable :mad:)

The issue is how each sex approaches the purpose of games. Women, in general, view games as something to play to relax, chill out, have fun. They don't understand why a guy sits down, gets angry, shouts at the screen and gets tense like they are highly stressed... etc. They don't understand how a guy enjoys that, and know that they wouldn't enjoy that themselves.

I don't know, maybe it's hormonal. Men like activities that pump large amounts of adrenaline and testosterone into their blood. It's a feeling of mental clarity, your reflexes are faster, you feel stronger. The feeling of succeeding while under these levels of stress is like a hit from a drug.

I've never met a girl who wanted to endure those levels of stress, or get to the point where they would get angry if they lost, but feel elated if they won. Of the girls I know that are gamers, they like to relax while gaming and it's more about having fun than competing to win.

I don't think it has anything to do with how these games are marketed (Ryu having an outfit straight from the cover of a tacky romance novel didn't put me off SFIV) But more to do with how we are wired.

Silverfish

L31mr0d wrote: »

I've never met a girl who wanted to endure those levels of stress, or get to the point where they would get angry if they lost, but feel elated if they won. Of the girls I know that are gamers, they like to relax while gaming and it's more about having fun than competing to win.

Hi. How's it going?

Great? Good.


See, now you can say you've met one girl who does, instead of you've never met one

I'll try find some others.

Retr0gamer

Find me a wife? Please.

Nevyn

L31mr0d wrote: »

The issue is how each sex approaches the purpose of games. Women, in general, view games as something to play to relax, chill out, have fun. They don't understand why a guy sits down, gets angry, shouts at the screen and gets tense like they are highly stressed... etc. They don't understand how a guy enjoys that, and know that they wouldn't enjoy that themselves.

I don't know, maybe it's hormonal. Men like activities that pump large amounts of adrenaline and testosterone into their blood. It's a feeling of mental clarity, your reflexes are faster, you feel stronger. The feeling of succeeding while under these levels of stress is like a hit from a drug.

I've never met a girl who wanted to endure those levels of stress, or get to the point where they would get angry if they lost, but feel elated if they won. Of the girls I know that are gamers, they like to relax while gaming and it's more about having fun than competing to win.

I don't think it has anything to do with how these games are marketed (Ryu having an outfit straight from the cover of a tacky romance novel didn't put me off SFIV) But more to do with how we are wired.

I've a scar on my hand after punching the wall out of frustration due to gaming, I have lost count how many console pads I have hopped off walls and or ragequit severs and delted a game and shattered the game play disc in utter frustration, ( and then twice gone out in that week and replaced them ).

I do think there are some differences in how the genders brains are wired and there are difference to the types of games which certain genders seem to prefer but the 'boys club culture' can be extremely off putting, there have been improvements but there is still a lot of 'token' female chars out there and they do get turned into 'floozies' as the clip mentions,

Female gamers do get riled up as well but usually it's get put down to them being well female with reference to the moon phase.

http://thecurvature.com/2007/10/29/you-really-got-me/#more-377

I don’t think anyone would ever make the mistake of calling me a gamer. I’ve never been very good at them, and with the exception of puzzle-type games like Tetris and Mahjong, they just don’t interest me. It’s not my thing.

But I love Guitar Hero. My husband got me hooked on it a couple of years ago, when the first game came out. Since then, we’ve bought all the sequels since on their release date, even the ****ty 80s expansion pack. I’m pretty good; I can complete hard with little effort, and get five stars on most songs with a bit of work. I will, in fact, get obsessed with it.

As any good rock geek should know, Guitar Hero III was released yesterday. We bought it. We got it home. We were excited. Then we turned it on and I came to the very fast realization that I just paid $50 for a game that was going to blatantly and guiltlessly insult me.

For those of you who have never played the game, this is my girl Judy Nails. She’s a cute, bad-ass alt rocker chick who doesn’t take **** from anybody. She’s the only female character to have appeared in every Guitar Hero release, and she has been my chosen character from day one. We work well together:

The picture doesn’t quite do it justice, but since the game is brand new it was the best I could find. You can find a better view on Guitar Hero’s homepage. Basically, I’m not sure why they bothered to put a shirt on her. There are copious amounts of cleavage, her entire stomach, and at least half of her bra hanging out. The shirt is really more of an accessory than an actual article of clothing. Even on stage with all of those bright lights, she still might get a little cold. And every outfit change I could give her doesn’t make it any better.

Even worse, I don’t have any other female options. There’s Casey, who has always worn a bikini top in lieu of a shirt (which I was originally fine with, because there were other options and there is a male character with no shirt). And there’s a new Asian female character who, though she is covered, is dressed like she works for Gwen Stefani. And since I see it as pretty racist, I can’t go with her, either.

So. Apparently Guitar Hero now thinks that it either A. does not have any female fans or B. their female fans will, for some reason, not mind being objectified and forced to play with a character who is half naked, if they want to play with a woman.

I was pissed off. But then it got much worse. I started looking through the guitars in the store. First came a guitar called the “Clix” which is sponsored by those misogynist assholes at Axe. Yeah, I get the play on words (guitar, axe . . .). But Axe is still a company that is hateful of women, and so I was very displeased. Oh, they sponsor a bass, too, called Bom Chicka Wah Wah. Cute, huh?

That was a ****ing joke, though. Because next came the guitar Lady Shapes. What is Lady Shapes? It’s a guitar with a front that looks like/is shaped like an airbrushed blond in a bikini.

Worse of all, though, is the Parisienne. How bad could that be? The entire guitar is a disembodied woman’s leg in a fishnet stocking and heel.

Unlike most similar horrors that I run across, I don’t know how to be cute or sarcastic about this. Because I take it personally. Very personally. I’ve sunk a lot of money into this game. I’ve invested a lot of time and effort. I just spent $50 on this thing, which, for the record, I couldn’t really afford. And I get the game home to have it say to me “oh, by the way — we hate you.”

I’m more than pissed off. I’m ****ing hurt. I feel like I don’t exist.

And probably, I shouldn’t have expected any better. I mean, it’s a video game. And it’s aimed at rock fans. Those are two markets that are generally saturated in misogyny. But I did expect better. Until now, Guitar Hero had been different toward women (though, I will admit, not towards people of color). I trusted them.

I didn’t know how to explain this to my husband. Of course, he agreed that it is stupid and sexist. But he can’t really understand. He’s not the one being attacked. As a white male, he doesn’t have to worry so much about this kind of thing.

I’m sure that many of you out there can relate — have seen shows, or book series, music, etc. that you love and have been faithful to suddenly turn against you without notice, attack you with misogynist or racist imagery/ideas. It seems silly on the surface, but it is violating and painful. I genuinely do feel betrayed right now, like I’ve been handing my money and loyalty to someone who doesn’t want to admit that I even exist.

Who is to blame? I’m floating the suggestion that it has to do with the sale of rights to Activision. But still. Is it the designers? Corporate? Who? I don’t know. And quite honestly, I don’t care. Because everyone who put their name on it bears some responsibility.

I still haven’t been able to bring myself to play.

If you care, you can contact Red Octane. I’m certainly going to. And I hope that anyone who cares about things like video games and/or overt misogyny in media will take the time to send them a note asking why they think their female audience is so expendable.

UPDATE: It seems like I spoke about the lengths of the misogyny too soon. I did decide to play the game. The second time I went to play “I Wanna Rock and Roll All Night, ” before the song started they played the BOM-CHICKA-WAH-WAH music from those absolutely horrid Axe ads, and then two women in skin tight faux-leather pants and faux-leather tube tops took the stage to start dancing suggestively. Oh, and the tube tops said “Axe” on them.

The bright side is, I’m glad that I waited to write my letter. Who would think that such shameless product placement would not be the most offensive thing about the feature? Usually, I’d be appalled at the level to which they’ve sold out, but they did indeed find a way to take my mind off of that aspect . . .

She seems pretty angry over a game and betrayed over how to her mind they fúcked with it like other games producers have to to other titles.

I also found this TED talk which is 10 years old about getting little girls into gaming both pc and consoles.

http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/474
http://www.ted.com/talks/brenda_laurel_on_making_games_for_girls.html

And this bit I found to be pretty stunning.

Some history on computer games could be of interest - a BBC Radio 4 program from 1983 documented the origin of video games and the deliberate targeting of these games to males. The original marketers realised the difficulty of selling a product that required a lot of time spent inside, involved working with your hands and possibly a key board. If we can remember back then, in the 1970's all these activities were associated as being female tasks - typing was pretty much done only by females. Boys typically played outside and their games involved activity, groups and compeditiveness.

The marketers' challenge was twofold - firstly, they were acutely aware that if video games were ever perceived as a female activity then it was unlikely that males would be interested and that segement of the market would be lost pretty much forever, and secondly, how to sell to males something that was played inside, didn't require running or kicking, was passive, individual, and was compared at the time to operating a sewing machine.

The solution to these challenges was to develop compeditive, aggressive games that would appeal to males. They did so, with stunning results. It was acknowledged 26 years ago that spurning the female market was a completely deliberate marketing ploy. But, they knew who had the money, and they suspected they would gather in some females over time.

Vegeta

Thaedydal wrote: »

I've a scar on my hand after punching the wall out of frustration due to gaming, I have lost count how many console pads I have hopped off walls and or ragequit severs and delted a game and shattered the game play disc in utter frustration, ( and then twice gone out in that week and replaced them ).

I don't have time to comment fully on topic but that is classic stuff

I too am an angry loser, the bed at home has a black streak on it from where I hopped the 360 elite controller off it

My coffee table, which my girlfriend picked out in Laura Ashley and cost 400 quid has a big controller shape dent in the top of it. That didn't go down too well

Lag and FPS games give me serious nerd rage. I tend to avoid competitive situations in real life due to this element of my personality.


Will comment on topic later, I'm out the door here at work

Retr0gamer

I think really it's down to ignorance by most females. They don't associate videogames with something that girls would do and therefore never give them a chance or look down on them. I'm sure if they gave them a chance they would enjoy them but most don't. It's a cultural thing more than anything. Just look at japan were there's almost a 50:50 split between the genders. The only difference between japanese females and the rest is that in japanese culture women are much more accepting of gaming and will give it a chance.

L31mr0d

Thaedydal wrote: »

I've a scar on my hand after punching the wall out of frustration due to gaming, I have lost count how many console pads I have hopped off walls and or ragequit severs and delted a game and shattered the game play disc in utter frustration, ( and then twice gone out in that week and replaced them )

I don't doubt it. But I think women like yourself are the exception rather than the rule (do you disagree?) and I don't think it has anything to do with women feeling they need to adhere to some social stereotype.

My OH will usually quit a game if it gets to the point of being stressful. When we meet up at a friends house, the girls want to throw on Wii sports (they all game to some extent), whereas the guys want to play Street Fighter, Tekken... etc.

The general tone between the sexes is usually the women want to create an atmosphere where everyone is having equal amounts of fun, whereas the guys want to create a competitive atmosphere where somebody is winning and somebody is losing.

As an aside, if you where looking forward to playing a game and you realised the females in it where going to be scantily clad would you seriously never play it because of this?

Jazzy

my sister created an ultimate file in secret of mana (lvl 99 and all magics maxed out and all the level 9 weapons) and she is the most normal person i know

Gummy Panda

If you play a WoW, you'll find there is a lot of women gamers. I don't mean WoW gamers only. Most of the women i played WoW with (when i still played wow) were the best in the guild and knew the game inside/out.

It didn't surprise me when the casual guild chat changed to old 16-bit/32-bit games that they listed off their favourites as games like Secret of Mana or FFVII (Retro, this doesn't need your remarks about Japan's POV on FF games :P).

Only thing that was annoying, was when some gimp in the guild started falling in love with one of them even though she had a boyfriend. It was a trainwreck to watch. E-drama :mad:

Cunny-Funt

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Only thing that was annoying, was when some gimp in the guild started falling in love with one of them even though she had a boyfriend. It was a trainwreck to watch. E-drama :mad:

OMFG :rolleyes:

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I think really it's down to ignorance by most females.

I'm not saying I 100% dismiss whats been said in both the video and by the females gamers here. But imo a lot of it, at least in this country, is down to what retro is getting at there.

They either look at it as nerdy or an uncool thing to do, or just simply as a waste of time.

My sister would have played a bit of gaming with me when we were kids on the megadrive. She wasn't obsessed with them like me, but enjoyed them.

She has zero interest in them now. & refuses to even give them a look when I suggest games that she should try, stating "she doesn't have the time to be playing games" to which I'd reply: "yet you have the time to watch home and away or bla bla film, or read bla bla book etc etc"

Chances are if she tried, she'd find something she would highly enjoy but refuses to even consider it. She just does not see it as a valid form of entertainment. Or rather she refuses to. Probably cause she views it as being 'uncool'.

The last time I manged to convince her to at least have a shot of a game was a few years back with DooM 3. It terrified the shit out of her, she was screaming and stuff (I was downstairs at the time and ran up thinking something was wrong) and I'll never forget the line

"He's running at me!!!, He's trying to kill me and he has no head!! AND HE'S ON FIRE!, HE HAD NO HEAD AND HE'S ON FIRE!!!!!!!"

She seemed to enjoy it but never played it or any other game again

Gummy Panda

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

OMFG :rolleyes:

it got worse when the lesbian bunny boiler fell in love with her too.

WolfForager

For some reason most women who never play games, when you give them a controller and turn on GTA, they get really into it, scarily so :P

Back to the video though. Aren't things like gaming tailored around their audiences? You can hardly blame the industry for building up it's 'empire' around it's prime market. I think if game's like GeOW and such were to be toned (ie. less gore, less "Flex the muscles cole!!!") down they'd lose alot of it's male audience and gain few if any of the female audience.

But he was spot on about the casual gaming. I used to play Evony for a few months a while back, more women playing that than men! And they all had massive cities with enormous armies. As far as i know 6/10 of the top players on it are/were women.

Jazzy

Thaedydal wrote: »

so girls are a mcguffin fair enough if what works for you

is that like some sort of manticore ?

Davidius

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Only thing that was annoying, was when some gimp in the guild started falling in love with one of them even though she had a boyfriend. It was a trainwreck to watch. E-drama :mad:

I burst out laughing when I read that and now I feel bad.

Cunny-Funt

Gummy Panda wrote: »

it got worse when the lesbian bunny boiler fell in love with her too.

omfggggggg please tell me there's like a thread on a forum or something where I can read all that drama?! sounds like it'd make a good soap

She must have had a sexy avatar:rolleyes:

tread_softly

I'm a girl, have the tits and the vag and all, and I love gaming.

Fair enough, i'm sure more men than women play and enjoy games but you shouldn't just rule us out!

It irks me so much when I go into a games shop and get a weird stare for buying a game. It happens mostly with PS3 and PSP games, not so much with DS ones, maybe cuz women are seen as "casual" gamers?

I get pissed off with games, ninja gaiden has caused a few controllers to be fcuked against walls for example.

I like the different genres, from fighting games to RPGS, platformers to FPS games. COD and team fortress LAN parties at my mate's house have been some of the most fun (and victorious) moments of my life

I challenge any of the fellas here to a soul calibur IV match, talim and I will put you in your place

Cunny-Funt

tread_softly wrote: »

I'm a girl, have the tits and the vag and all, and I love gaming.

A girl with tits and a vag? feckin'ell!

tread_softly wrote: »

Fair enough, i'm sure more men than women play and enjoy games but you shouldn't just rule us out!

I don't think anyone wants to rule you out? I wish more girls were into gaming, seriously. It sucks having your main fav hobby be looked at as something to be ashamed of when you talk to most girls in Ireland.

If I saw a girl buying a game in a shop I'd think it was pretty damn cool that she's not one of the ignorant masses who look down on games. I'd think (puts on ali g voice)

'"respect".


Still can't believe there's guys that would be all "you sure you want that game luv, would you not want the sims" etc. Seriously, fuck those guys, most guys would be happy if more girls played. Its one activity that everyone can compete equally , gender and age etc.

tread_softly wrote: »

I challenge any of the fellas here to a soul calibur IV match, talim and I will put you in your place

How about some SF4? :cool: A real fighting game

Mr E

First time I have seen a piece of journalism defending Ubisoft's terrible shovelware.
Don't encourage them!

Vegeta

I am divided on this one

I would love if gaming had a more even gender split but there are obvious obstacles.

While Retr0 and Cunny-Funt make good points that a lot of women don't consider gaming an acceptable past time, lads you have to ask yourselves, who's fault is that?

For the majority, games have been made by men to be targeted/marketed at men. So it's not like we have been including them. Then it popular culture and media, anyone who plays games is a nerd or geek, or some other word with negative connotations.

When my brothers work on their track car all day its cool and manly but when I have a LAN or take a day off work to play a new release, I am a nerd.

It's not hard to see why more women don't play games, they're not aimed at them and they are seen by their peers as odd

I think men would welcome female gamers with open arms (some a little too stalker-ishly well as others have mentioned) but making gaming more acceptable to women is the key. If that is through casual gaming then I applaud the DS and Wii and whatever the hell works. Imagine Babies and the likes can fcuk right off though.


What kind of annoys me is the following: Men like attractive women who dress sexily, shocking stuff I know. Therefore it's not a huge leap to imagine models of beautiful sexily dressed women turning up in a form of media aimed at men. Calling that misogynistic is quite frankly bullsh1t. It's a bit of a jump from appreciating a fantasy to wanting to control, dominate, put women down and think they're only good for one thing.

Now obviously if games are to be more gender neutral then that sort of content is just stupid and will limit the market you appeal to.

L31mr0d

Vegeta wrote: »

For the majority, games have been made by men to be targeted/marketed at men. So it's not like we have been including them.

As a man, you have no problem with games being developed for men, am I right? Why then, I ask, do women have a problem with games being developed solely for them. The types of games that get released for women only do so because the market is there.

This wish to homogenise gaming genres and titles to appeal to both sexes is wrong imo. Some genres have equal appeal, some will appeal to either or.

To me, there is no issue that needs to be resolved. The current disinterest in the medium of video games is a generational thing. A generation of females raised with a gaming device available will change the current stereotype.

Vegeta

L31mr0d wrote: »

As a man, you have no problem with games being developed for men, am I right?

I have no problem with games appealing to men, I have no problem with games appealing to women or being gender neutral. I think a developer should be able to aim their game at whoever the hell they want if they think it will sell.

Why then, I ask, do women have a problem with games being developed solely for them.

They do?

To me, there is no issue that needs to be resolved. The current disinterest in the medium of video games is a generational thing. A generation of females raised with a gaming device available will change the current stereotype.

If Nintendo have anything to say about it, you're probably right.

johnny_ultimate

Mr E wrote: »

First time I have seen a piece of journalism defending Ubisoft's terrible shovelware.
Don't encourage them!

Would definitely have to disagree with the video there too! That **** is part of the problem. Imagine Babies (or whatever) is just deepening the divide in my opinion.

Ubisoft executive: OK so we need to reach the other 50% of the population. What do they like?

Designer (shrugs): Babies and cooking? [high fives other designer beside him]

Executive: Brilliant! Have a bag of cash!

And hence the generic 'female' orientated game is born! If gaming is ever going to mature, they need to stop condescending people. I don't buy a game if its main selling point is breast physics (I think most lads over 15 are past that point tbh) just as I can't imagine girl gamers (next Imagine game right there? Raise your own nerdy girl gamer ) are going to fall for a baby simulator just because they're girls. It is a horrible generalisation.

As the video suggests, Peggle should be the real gateway drug That is the kind of game that should be used to ease people into gaming. Not ****ing Imagine Ponies or some such sexist (and yes, I consider it sexist, although I do acknowledge that some female gamers out there may be interested in it) rubbish.

Burning Eclipse

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Would definitely have to disagree with the video there too! That **** is part of the problem. Imagine Babies (or whatever) is just deepening the divide in my opinion.

Ubisoft executive: OK so we need to reach the other 50% of the population. What do they like?

Designer (shrugs): Babies and cooking? [high fives other designer beside him]

Executive: Brilliant! Have a bag of cash!

And hence the generic 'female' orientated game is born! If gaming is ever going to mature, they need to stop condescending people. I don't buy a game if its main selling point is breast physics (I think most lads over 15 are past that point tbh) just as I can't imagine girl gamers are going to fall for a baby simulator just because they're girls. It is a horrible generalisation.

As the video suggests, Peggle should be the real gateway drug That is the kind of game that should be used to ease people into gaming. Not ****ing Imagine Ponies or some such sexist (and yes, I consider it sexist, although I do acknowledge that some female gamers out there may be interested in it) rubbish.

My little one plays Bunnyz (I had no part in that), but she is 'gaming', so that's something. She has a section on the shelf for her 360 games (Lego Indy, Kung Fu Panda, Transformers, Viva Pinata: Party Animals) and her Wii games (Mario Galaxy, Wii Sports, Wii Fit). But by far the game she plays most is New Super Mario Bros on the DS. I've seen her plow through levels in world 8 (so proud )! Analog control is still a bit of an issue though.

The point is, and this is touched on in the video, she is gaming from a young age, same way most of us got into gaming. There is nothing unusual about it, it's another past-time and no different to playing with her sylvanian families. That's what 'we' (gamers) need... To foster a sense that gaming is something fun, regardless of your gender.

Jazzy

tbh, it all doesnt really matter. there are films for girls, there are films for boys. there is music for girls, there is music for boys. there are magazines for girls, there are magazines for boys. there are games for girls, there are games for boys. problem is, the "games for girls" are generally muck so the definition just breaks down to games for people. either its a good game or its not. thats where things are different i think. games are so universally good when they get it right that everyone plays them and understands how good they are, same with great films and the like. there will always be "Sex in the City: The Movie" and "Vicky Christina Barcelona" and that will spread its way towards the gaming market with all the other cheap tack. if you are a girl that plays games there is no need to shout out loud and 'be different' because yes, we all already know that games rock. i know that if i was reading cosmo and waiting for sex in the city to come on i wouldnt be out there telling everyone about it over and over because i would get slagged. as far as im concerned, the is no 'girl gamer' debate or topic just as there is no 'girl film watcher' debate or topic. its just something made up by lazy games journo's to seem like they 'stand on the side of right and inclusion' rather then actually understanding it. load of piss

WolfForager

Jazzy wrote: »

"Vicky Christina Barcelona" and that will spread its way towards the gaming market with all the other cheap tack.

Hey hey, i thoroughly enjoyed that movie! Every lad who reads this will probably roll their eyes to heaven..

But leave it alone :pac:

johnny_ultimate

Burning Eclipse wrote: »

My little one plays Bunnyz (I had no part in that), but she is 'gaming', so that's something. She has a section on the shelf for her 360 games (Lego Indy, Kung Fu Panda, Transformers, Viva Pinata: Party Animals) and her Wii games (Mario Galaxy, Wii Sports, Wii Fit). But by far the game she plays most is New Super Mario Bros on the DS. I've seen her plow through levels in world 8 (so proud )! Analog control is still a bit of an issue though.

The point is, and this is touched on in the video, she is gaming from a young age, same way most of us got into gaming. There is nothing unusual about it, it's another past-time and no different to playing with her sylvanian families. That's what 'we' (gamers) need... To foster a sense that gaming is something fun, regardless of your gender.

I see where you're coming from, and I do think that there is an audience for the Imagine games or whatever (and for younger gamers, they will definitely go for more popular options - I know as a kid I played a hell of a lot of crap!). Perhaps my main point though, and I'm not sure if I got it across in my last post, was the lower quality of a lot of these games - as Mr.E pointed out, Shovelware! Whatever about the morals and effects of gender segmented games (I think they do have an effect on the overall personality of the gamer, but that is a debate for an academic essay rather than an online forum!) it isn't fair that girls are being dished out shallow crap in exchange for quality. Something like Nintendogs or Cooking Mama may be shallow, but at least they are well produced, technically innovative crap. I'd rather see people introduced to games through stuff like that than the low quality stuff Ubisoft churns out.

I still will argue strongly against Imagine Babiez though, which is just very very wrong!

And I also enjoyed Vicky Christina!

Burning Eclipse

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I see where you're coming from, and I do think that there is an audience for the Imagine games or whatever (and for younger gamers, they will definitely go for more popular options - I know as a kid I played a hell of a lot of crap!). Perhaps my main point though, and I'm not sure if I got it across in my last post, was the lower quality of a lot of these games - as Mr.E pointed out, Shovelware! Whatever about the morals and effects of gender segmented games (I think they do have an effect on the overall personality of the gamer, but that is a debate for an academic essay rather than an online forum!) it isn't fair that girls are being dished out shallow crap in exchange for quality. Something like Nintendogs or Cooking Mama may be shallow, but at least they are well produced, technically innovative crap. I'd rather see people introduced to games through stuff like that than the low quality stuff Ubisoft churns out.

I still will argue strongly against Imagine Babiez though, which is just very very wrong!

And I also enjoyed Vicky Christina!

Oh ya, that Bunnyz thing is pure schlop. But it's existence is a statement to young girls that the market is catering to them and even though they might not fully understand it that way, it sets a tone that gaming is not a ‘boys club’ from a young age.