December Budget 09 details

hellboy99

What are your thoughts on the below outline details of the upcoming budget.

There's more people going up north after this, and even less revenue coming in here :rolleyes:

The child benefit i believe should be means tested for high earners

http://www.tv3.ie/article.php?article_id=26908&locID=1.2.139.&pagename=home

Details of Budget 2010 revealed to TV3


01.12.09

Tonight TV3 News can exclusively reveal much of what's likely to feature in next week's long awaited budget. Here's what the cabinet has agreed so far.

Government Spending
Four billion euro worth of savings will be made in total.

• One billion euro from the Public Sector Pay and Pensions Bill.
• One billion worth of cuts will be made from social welfare,
• one billion from capital spending
• and one billion from departmental spending.

Public sector Pay
The cut means that public sector pay will be cut by five per cent.

Taxation
At present there is no plan for the third rate of tax for high earners.

Social Welfare
Social welfare will be hit hard by the budget. Areas expected to be hit include:
Child Benefit

• Child benefit will be cut by ten per cent.
• However, It'll be neither taxed nor means tested.
• A compensation package will be available for welfare recipients.

Other benefits

• All other benefits will be cut by about five per cent.
• Unemployment benefit for under twenty threes will fall by twenty per cent.

Old Age Pension

• It is believed however that an exception will be made for the old age pension and pensioners will not be hit - this time.

Healthcare Spending
Cuts in departmental spending will mean more expensive healthcare for everyone.

• A prescription charge of fifty cent will be introduced for medical card holders.
• A&E charges will go up
• The threshold for the drug payment scheme will also rise.

murphaph

It is believed however that an exception will be made for the old age pension and pensioners will not be hit - this time.

No surprises but this is disgraceful. OAPs are the least likely to have ANY significant debt! The 204 quid a week PER PERSON state pension (excluding ALL the other benefits OAPs get!) is simply too high.

skearon

hellboy99 wrote: »

There's more people going up north after this, and even less revenue coming in here :rolleyes:

Precisely which part of TV3's budget report will make more people deprive their own state of much needed taxes?

Dannyboy83

Much more lenient than I expected tbh.
As of tomorrow, we owe 75 Bill

Drumpot

murphaph wrote: »

No surprises but this is disgraceful. OAPs are the least likely to have ANY significant debt! The 204 quid a week PER PERSON state pension (excluding ALL the other benefits OAPs get!) is simply too high.

I believe that OAP's are one of the more vulnerable sections of society and need to be protected. .

And they dont save, so most of their money will be pumped back into the economy .

# A compensation package will be available for welfare recipients.

A what now?

Drumpot

Deleted User wrote: »

A what now?

Seanie Fitzpatrick ordered his charter jet to bring him back to the emerald isles when he read that . . . :eek:

amacachi

Deleted User wrote: »

A what now?

People on the dole with kids will get extra from the dole to make up for the loss in children's allowance. That's the impression I'm getting anyway.

amacachi

Have to say this looks like yet another fudge. 50 cent prescription charges for Christ's sake.

irish_bob

murphaph wrote: »

No surprises but this is disgraceful. OAPs are the least likely to have ANY significant debt! The 204 quid a week PER PERSON state pension (excluding ALL the other benefits OAPs get!) is simply too high.

OAP,s recieve 232 euro per week plus a raft of other benefits , i agree they are far too spoiled but they are the most important voter demographic and i dont blame the goverment for leaving them untouched , besides , when you hit the OAP,s , you make enemys of their middle aged children as seen by last years outcry , middle aged people dont want to see thier inherritance reduced

irish_bob

Drumpot wrote: »

I believe that OAP's are one of the more vulnerable sections of society and need to be protected. .

And they dont save, so most of their money will be pumped back into the economy .

you must live in the city , any old person i know saves like a squirrell , old people tend to be very stingy with money

murphaph

Drumpot wrote: »

I believe that OAP's are one of the more vulnerable sections of society and need to be protected. .

Why are they more vulnerable?

My mother sticks her pension in the bank. She still works fulltime yet receives this 204 quid a week and does nothing with it. She can't be alone.

Even for OAPs who have no other income, how can an OAP with no mortgage and with a fuel allowance/telephone allowance/medical card/free travel pass/living alone allowance be more vulnerable than an unemployed father of 3 kids of school-going age? It's a nonsense tbh. Old folks don't need this much money but they are just another sacred cow in Ireland like the nurses. It is cynically political to leave the pension untouched and that much is obvious.

Drumpot wrote: »

And they dont save, so most of their money will be pumped back into the economy .

See above-unemployed fathers of 3 kids don't save either ;-)

boodlesdoodles

irish_bob wrote: »

OAP,s recieve 232 euro per week plus a raft of other benefits , i agree they are far too spoiled but they are the most important voter demographic and i dont blame the goverment for leaving them untouched , besides , when you hit the OAP,s , you make enemys of their middle aged children as seen by last years outcry , middle aged people dont want to see thier inherritance reduced

I'm sorry but why should my mother who depend on the widow's contributory pension suffer? Your remarks are insulting to all those men and women who worked to get this country on its feet over the last 70 odd years. Have a bit of respect for the elderly. Any benefits my mother gets she is more than entitled to and its disingenious to say they are spoiled. Jesus why don't we just lump the whole lot of em into homes and forget about them. Irish Bob you've said some things I've found repugnant on other threads and kept my cool but I have to say this is the worst.

Drumpot

The bitterness in these forums is remarkable . . . .

Hope none of you guys are ever old and stuck with younger people with your attitudes , running the country . . .

You assume that every OAP represents supposedly every OAP you know . . How convenient and ignorant in equal measure . .

What's even funnier is that the OAPs of today had it 1000000000 more difficult then most people who believe they are struggling in todays terms . .

Struggling meant you might not be able to put a meal on the table (not you might have to cancel your sky subscription) .

Everybodys about me me me on these forums . . They have absolutely no comprehension (or willingness to try and be fair) of how good our current generation have it . .

The society that I know has lost touch with reality and convinces itself that its some sort of casualty of a really unfair world . . If you can keep a roof over your head and feed your family, you are doing ok . .

boodlesdoodles

murphaph wrote: »

Why are they more vulnerable?

My mother sticks her pension in the bank. She still works fulltime yet receives this 204 quid a week and does nothing with it. She can't be alone.

Even for OAPs who have no other income, how can an OAP with no mortgage and with a fuel allowance/telephone allowance/medical card/free travel pass/living alone allowance be more vulnerable than an unemployed father of 3 kids of school-going age? It's a nonsense tbh. Old folks don't need this much money but they are just another sacred cow in Ireland like the nurses. It is cynically political to leave the pension untouched and that much is obvious.


See above-unemployed fathers of 3 kids don't save either ;-)

Well isn't your mother very lucky? You should be grateful rather than sticking the boot in those who actually need every bit of their pension to heat their house, pay their bills? Do you know how much the fuel allowance is? €20 p.w. Most older people depend on their phone for company. THis is a new low for Boards.

amacachi

Drumpot wrote: »

The bitterness in these forums is remarkable . . . .

Hope none of you guys are ever old and stuck with younger people with your attitudes , running the country . . .

You assume that every OAP represents supposedly every OAP you know . . How convenient and ignorant in equal measure . .

What's even funnier is that the OAPs of today had it 1000000000 more difficult then most people who believe they are struggling in todays terms . .

Struggling meant you might not be able to put a meal on the table (not you might have to cancel your sky subscription) .

Everybodys about me me me on these forums . . They have absolutely no comprehension (or willingness to try and be fair) of how good our current generation have it . .

The society that I know has lost touch with reality and convinces itself that its some sort of casualty of a really unfair world . . If you can keep a roof over your head and feed your family, you are doing ok . .

Well let's use that logic for everything, see how far we get.:rolleyes:
They're cutting the dole more for under 23s because they tend to have less debt and no kids to pay for, so why not apply the same logic to other sections of society?

bbam

murphaph & irish_bob

You guys are a bloody disgrase to the nation... Shame on you

murphaph

I see the usual emotive, let's not analyse anything attitude is alive and well!

How the bloody hell can a typical OAP (mortgage free, probably living in an oversized house that they could easily downsize from) be more vulnerable than a young unemployed family??

OAPs simply don't need this much money. It's too much. Any OAP who is claiming all their allowances and who still spends every penny of their pension is a spendthrift.

You lads have no idea how much of this pension money is being hoarded for inheritances.

Drumpot

murphaph wrote: »

You lads have no idea how much of this pension money is being hoarded for inheritances.

Evidence please . . Or should we take your word for it . .

And where did anybody say that young unemployed families should be left hang ?

maryjane007

i totally agree that pensioners should be left alone, the majority of them worked their fingers to the bone to build the country, but with all due respect, i do see where your coming from though, i dont know any poor pensioners, my kids think all pensioners are rich because their grandparents always have lots of 50 notes. its the younger generation who have young families who are struggling.

Kristopherus

bbam wrote: »

murphaph & irish_bob

You guys are a bloody disgrase to the nation... Shame on you

+1. And that can be explained that neither of them know how much the OAP is.

nesf

boodlesdoodles wrote: »

THis is a new low for Boards.

So two posters say they want to cut the OAP and you paint the rest of boards with that brush?


In general please don't get personal guys, the OAP is something that is very controversial, please stay civil and don't make personal comments about other users simply because you disagree fundamentally with them.

Flamed Diving

bbam wrote: »

murphaph & irish_bob

You guys are a bloody disgrase to the nation... Shame on you

Seconded. Ignorance worn like a badge of pride.

implausible

murphaph wrote: »

No surprises but this is disgraceful. OAPs are the least likely to have ANY significant debt! The 204 quid a week PER PERSON state pension (excluding ALL the other benefits OAPs get!) is simply too high.

irish_bob wrote: »

OAP,s recieve 232 euro per week plus a raft of other benefits , i agree they are far too spoiled but they are the most important voter demographic

I can't believe what I'm reading! The last people who should be attacked are the OAPs. Most have worked hard all their lives when the economy was in the sh*tter, when mortgage interest rates were 13% and have paid their taxes and their dues to this state. They built this country and people are seriously thinking of rewarding this by penalising them financially!

The least you are entitled to in any civilised society is a safe and comfortable old age. You can measure a society by how it treats its most vulnerable.

I'm appalled.

boodlesdoodles

murphaph wrote: »

I see the usual emotive, let's not analyse anything attitude is alive and well!

How the bloody hell can a typical OAP (mortgage free, probably living in an oversized house that they could easily downsize from) be more vulnerable than a young unemployed family??

OAPs simply don't need this much money. It's too much. Any OAP who is claiming all their allowances and who still spends every penny of their pension is a spendthrift.

You lads have no idea how much of this pension money is being hoarded for inheritances.

I'll give you my analysis shall I? My father started working as a farm labourer at the age of 14 and retired at 65 as a gardener/caretaker. He contributed to the exchequer all his life and hence my mother can claim her widow's contributory pension. She now lives alone. Why shouldn't the people who've already had their working lives be entitled to their contributions? Be entitled to a decent pension? I'm not going to contribute to this thread anymore because its making me really angry. This country if fecked if this thread is representative of the society that's been produced.

thatsa spicy

People having emotional attacks at people who even suggest a cut in the living standards of those on the OAP should get real. Do they expect that we should leave them alone and even further increase the tax burden on everybody else?

Nobody is going to starve...they just won't be able to put money away for inheritences. And yes, really, nobody is going to starve. On 232 a week? They should have their mortgage paid off by now and bills for one or two people don't come to that much.

oscarBravo

bbam wrote: »

murphaph & irish_bob

You guys are a bloody disgrase to the nation... Shame on you

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Seconded. Ignorance worn like a badge of pride.

What part of "don't get personal" is unclear?

Gumbo

nesf wrote: »

So two posters say they want to cut the OAP and you paint the rest of boards with that brush?


In general please don't get personal guys, the OAP is something that is very controversial, please stay civil and don't make personal comments about other users simply because you disagree fundamentally with them.

in fairness they've being doing it in regards to the PS bashing for months!
assuming all PS workers earn 50k or even 40k for that matter!

Drumpot

deemark wrote: »

The least you are entitled to in any civilised society is a safe and comfortable old age. You can measure a society by how it treats its most vulnerable.

I'm appalled.

Welcome to Ireland post celtic Tiger . .

I think most people I know in this country don't actually appreciate what they have . .. They constantly look at others and point fingers at what they want and blame everybody else for their own problems. .

They want others to bail them out . . Ignore the harsh reality of the importance of a bank bailout and demand a NAMA for them . . Its really really sad and with those kind of attitudes we havent learned a thing. .

If our country got together, showed true empathy for one another and worked harder for ALL the vunerable (that might mean getting paid less!), we would get out of the recession stronger. .

Happiness is a state of mind, not decided by your bank balance. Some here might do well to remember that . .

nesf

kceire wrote: »

in fairness they've being doing it in regards to the PS bashing for months!

Anyone who's gotten personal with a user has gotten warned by me. If I missed a post, I apologise.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

If pensioners are NOT in debt, then there's a damn good reason for it: they haven't been greedy and they have been wise with their money. Why should they pay for some greedy ****wit's mistakes?