The "worst of all possible worlds": The deal between Government and the unions

jmayo

eoinbn wrote: »

We are a very small fish in a big pond. The UK and US are actively devaluing their currency, so I don't see why the Euro zone would save us at all costs if just to stop the currency devaluing by 2-3%.
And why would they kick us out of the EU? The UK called in the IMF in the 1970's.

The Germans, the French, the Dutch, etc won't allow an ungrateful country run half assed by an incompetent bunch of overpaid over expensed morons drag down the Euro.
Don't think for a minute that someone in Frankfurt hasn't been trying to figure out ways of dealing with Ireland (and Greece) in order to save guard the Euro.
They probably have formulated an IMF style rescue plans for both of these economies in order to avoid bringing in the IMF.

eoinbn wrote: »

The cuts won't even cover the interest on the ~€25bn that we will be borrowing this year. I would love to know where they will get the next ~€15bn of adjustments when they are struggling to find €4bn this year.

Listen ff are not even thinking about next year nevermind the year after.
They always had a mentality that was to hang onto power or achieve power at all costs.
Under bertie this was honed into being the complete reason d'etre.
Just worry about the here and now, always with an eye on the next election.

At this stage they know they will lose the next election, so it is the election after that they are scheming about.
They are living in a cloud cuckoo land as can be seen from the expected NAMA fairytale ending.
They are hoping some miracle occurrs to resuce the economy and them.
Most of them are probably torn between two minds, either hang on until next election for the perks or go now and face the wrath of the electorate, ensuring that it's the other crowd who will have to come in to clean up the mess and dish out the tough medecine.

Then they can come back in a few years, get the gobsh*** voters to punish the others and thus ff take their rightful place at reins of power. :rolleyes:

Pharaoh1

The well pensioned who never paid the pension levy get off scot free.

No reductions in pay scales means no pressure for pay cuts for TD's and higher civil servants.

Will our TD's be taking unpaid leave?

The greatest fudge in a long line of fudges.

Trampas

I heard the school are going to remain open and the unpaid leave will happen during the summer.

Therefore I think the teachers are getting the short straw.

They are getting a pay cut since they don't have any extra days off.

funnyname

Trampas wrote: »

I heard the school are going to remain open and the unpaid leave will happen during the summer.

Therefore I think the teachers are getting the short straw.

They are getting a pay cut since they don't have any extra days off.

LOL

jmayo

Trampas wrote: »

I heard the school are going to remain open and the unpaid leave will happen during the summer.

Therefore I think the teachers are getting the short straw.

They are getting a pay cut since they don't have any extra days off.

Short straw my ar**.

My heart bleeds for those who get nearly 3 months paid leave during our so called summer or the primary teachers who only get 2 odd months paid leave :rolleyes:

BTW that doesn't include the weeks off at Easter or Christmas :mad:

RedPlanet

Couldn't we re-jig the school year so there was no such thing as summers off?

GSF

Will this unpaid leave be on top of the 15 days paid sick leave?

voxpop

The proposal saves only about 300 million - they are saying that public sector should take unpaid leave were possible - i.e. nurses,guards,etc wont be involved in the unpaid leave because they cant just take 14 days off.

Now they just need to add in a few more taxes and cut child benefit to get the other 1 billion!

funnyname

GSF wrote: »

Will this unpaid leave be on top of the 15 days paid sick leave?

Serious question but what if they're sick on their days of unpaid will they get paid? I know asking this question will give them ideas but I think they've already thought of this idea.

dvpower

jmayo wrote: »

My heart bleeds for those who get nearly 3 months paid leave during our so called summer or the primary teachers who only get 2 odd months paid leave :rolleyes:

And a couple of weeks at Christmas, and Easter and a few mid term breaks thrown in there too.

Jip

Trampas wrote: »

I heard the school are going to remain open and the unpaid leave will happen during the summer.

You heard wrong, unfortunately.

voxpop

funnyname wrote: »

Serious question but what if they're sick on their days of unpaid will they get paid? I know asking this question will give them ideas but I think they've already thought of this idea.

I think their wages are already docked - i.e. at the start of the year before you take any leave you wages for the year are reduced. You then have the days to take, whenever you can fit them in.

McTigs

Ian Kavanagh wrote: »

you / me voted these shower in time after time

speak for yourself!

I'm

Dannyboy83

Trampas wrote: »

I heard the school are going to remain open and the unpaid leave will happen during the summer.
Therefore I think the teachers are getting the short straw.
They are getting a pay cut since they don't have any extra days off.

They've just gotten a promotion from steerage to First Class on the Titanic.

Is that a victory?

97i9y3941

fair play to mr bruton,he spoke for the ordinary man there

harsea8

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

They've just gotten a promotion from steerage to First Class on the Titanic.

Is that a victory?

+1, this is no victory as all it does is prolong the agony and delay the inevitable....let's face it we'll be back in the same position talking about PS pay cuts by Easter

zootroid

Brian Cowen is f*ckin pussy. Simple as.

Martin 2

This deal is a very poor and cowardly solution to our deficit and lack of competitiveness.

stooge

Fred83 wrote: »

fair play to mr bruton,he spoke for the ordinary man there

not really imo. The 'ordinary (wo)man' includes public sector workers.

He spoke as someone who cares more about the overal welfare of Ireland than someone who cares for votes.

Its disheartening to see the leader of the country shy away from important and neccessary decisions time and time again.

IMF is now that little bit closer to reality......

Vim Fuego

Cowen may as well be running this country from an underground bunker, doesn't seem to have a clue or care what's going on.

I just can't understand it considering FF must be at an all time low in terms of popularity, that they can't make the tough decisions and institute real reform in the PS. They have nothing to lose at this stage.

This is just another delay on our way to economic ruin.

Nody

Vim Fuego wrote: »

I just can't understand it considering FF must be at an all time low in terms of popularity, that they can't make the tough decisions and institute real reform in the PS. They have nothing to lose at this stage.

What ever makes you think FF sees their popularity any diffierent then the Irish economy?

"Ignore it long enough and it will go away; you just wait and see lad, you just wait and see!"

blackbox

If Cowen has negotiated this, Lenihan should resign rather than put this Bertie style shambles through the next budget.

For frontline services (nurses, guards, prisons, social workers, council workers etc.) any reduction in man-hours will be replaced by overtime, so it will end up costing more! (and the overtime rate won't have been reduced)

It also means that next year we will have to go through the whole ritual again, as the wages will still be way too high. Are FF doing this deliberately to poison the next govt?

Saying that, I'm sure there are plenty of admin staff in the HSE whose 20 days won't be missed.

The government seems to have lost all direction has become totally reactive. We can only hope that they will react to the public response to this "deal".

Vim Fuego

Nody wrote: »

What ever makes you think FF sees their popularity any diffierent then the Irish economy?

"Ignore it long enough and it will go away; you just wait and see lad, you just wait and see!"

A vague hope that they somehow give a crap, unlikely I know.

The_Honeybadger

Absolute joke of a proposal and a wonderful opportunity for real reform wasted. If this is the deal they finalise the it is time for FF to go and let somebody else have a go at fixing our problems. IMF would be a terrible idea by the way, anybody who thinks they would ride in on a white horse and solve all our problems couldn't be more wrong, we'd lose control of economic policy and our tax system (our 12,5% corp tax in particular) and be facing some real hardship. The unions need to be faced down and put in their place, PS pay is too high in certain areas and needs to be cut, do it and let them strike without pay for a while if needs be. This Gov has no credibility if this proposal goes through and will be well and truly exposed as nothing more than b**ches for the unions.

Trankton

It's frightening to think that it is actually the Unions who run this country.

ei.sdraob

there you have it kids

terrorism works

:mad:

Flex

Very disappointed. I honestly thought Cowen and Lenihan were gonna take the 'tough decisions' (not that tough considering the level of public support from all sectors tbh) and do what was necessary to sort the economy. But theyve bottled it for some baffling reason.

They needed to tackle the pay of the PS now. Next April or next December the difference in pay will be even bigger and the PS will be even more entrenched on the issue of pay cuts. Or in 3 or 4 years (presuming we're still in control of our economy by then) will the public sector be given an additional 50 days unpaid leave each year to avoid a pay cut?

I shudder to think what the ECB are thinking now considering theyve been lending us €500M a week to porvide the government with breathing room to prepare a real and tough budget only to see this farce...........

BlackNinja

I'm in the Public Sector and i think this is ludecrious. Its going to make the HSE go down the swanny altogether and if it isn't tiered for grades then the lower paid,like myself,will be screwed altogether. A pay cut would be better and fairer (if tiered of course:rolleyes:)

Dubh Geannain

I propose 365 days unpaid leave for the Public Service.

Home education for the young ones.
Medical treatment to be received north of the border.
Vigilantism to replace the Gardai

Forget about needing civil servants to look after tax collection on Food and other goods, I'll write the Government a cheque at the end of every tax year giving them what I think they fookin deserve :mad:

Trankton

BlackNinja wrote: »

I'm in the Public Sector and i think this is ludecrious. Its going to make the HSE go down the swanny altogether and if it isn't tiered for grades then the lower paid,like myself,will be screwed altogether. A pay cut would be better and fairer (if tiered of course:rolleyes:)

I agree completely, how is it fair that those on 20k take the same cut as those on 60 - 100k. Ridiculous. It would appear that the unions have also made fools of their members as they only appear to be looking after those on the top rungs of the ladder.

If I was a member of the public service I would be quitting my union with immediate effect.