What are our democractic options now?

Eutow

Moriarty wrote: »

Suck it up. It's the electorates incompetence and short sightedness that's ultimately landed us here. The people get the government they deserve after all. 41.6% of the electorate voted for FF in 2007 - odds are a large number of those idiots baying for blood now were also the idiots that got us here. Maybe the idiots aren't worth listening to?

And they will probably vote in the same shower of incompetents at the next general election. The 41.6% that voted for Fianna Failure need to take a good look at themselves. Hopefully the majority of these people have seen sense, but a look at the polls in the newspapers suggests otherwise. FF are still getting 20% - 25% support, and this will probably rise before the next general election.

Things will never change, and as soon as I can, I'll be on a one-way flight away from here.

dresden8

Eutow wrote: »

And they will probably vote in the same shower of incompetents at the next general election. The 41.6% that voted for Fianna Failure need to take a good look at themselves. Hopefully the majority of these people have seen sense, but a look at the polls in the newspapers suggests otherwise. FF are still getting 20% - 25% support.

Things will never change, and as soon as I can, I'll be on a one-way flight away from here.

There's probably flights out of here today!

Eutow

dresden8 wrote: »

There's probably flights out of here today!

Indeed there is but jobs are scarce overseas as well, so it wouldn't be a good time to move abroad just yet.

Eliot Rosewater

Moriarty wrote: »

It's incompetent to not want to be handed a poisoned chalice? I'd suggest that's an extraordinarily naieve view of politics.

Naive, no, overly idealistic, probably.

Fundamentally people are after leadership. If you recall when Gilmore forced O'Donogue to resign, there were people here on Boards saying they were going to vote Labour now solely because of Gilmores move. Clearly there was a desire for leadership.

As it stands FG will do relatively ok in the General Election. They wont get an all out majority and will have to go into Government with Union-controlled Labour. This isn't great by any means, considering they are the lead opposition party to what is the most unpopular government in the history of the State.

If they started a positive campaign, with a rejuvenated leadership, I don't see why they couldn't pick up the votes of the humongous amount of disillusioned people out there. People who aren't just disillusioned with Government, but with the political system itself.

It would perhaps be a riskier strategy, but one with the potential to get them a majority in the Dail. They would then have a mandate to do what they want. And its looking like people wouldn't blame them for the hardship: I think most people realize it was firmly FF's fault for the scale of the downturn, and would be willing for the cuts if given my a popular, determined and mandated Government.

Skrynesaver

Can't a referendum be called by a petition of voters?

Would adding anyone found guilty of corruption or defrauding the state to the list of those ineligible for public office not result in a few by-elections and a change of government?

Wouldn't this also help clear out some of the corruption and cronyism that afflicts our state?

As a further move in this direction shouldn't appointees to state boards have to go through the Civil Service commission rather than just handing these jobs out as "party" favours?

irish_bob

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Naive, no, overly idealistic, probably.

Fundamentally people are after leadership. If you recall when Gilmore forced O'Donogue to resign, there were people here on Boards saying they were going to vote Labour now solely because of Gilmores move. Clearly there was a desire for leadership.

As it stands FG will do relatively ok in the General Election. They wont get an all out majority and will have to go into Government with Union-controlled Labour. This isn't great by any means, considering they are the lead opposition party to what is the most unpopular government in the history of the State.

If they started a positive campaign, with a rejuvenated leadership, I don't see why they couldn't pick up the votes of the humongous amount of disillusioned people out there. People who aren't just disillusioned with Government, but with the political system itself.

It would perhaps be a riskier strategy, but one with the potential to get them a majority in the Dail. They would then have a mandate to do what they want. And its looking like people wouldn't blame them for the hardship: I think most people realize it was firmly FF's fault for the scale of the downturn, and would be willing for the cuts if given my a popular, determined and mandated Government.

what does it say about fine gael that they are not out there pitiching for this huge vote which has no voice

Daithinski

Zambia232 wrote: »

Why on earth would anyone volunteer to get elected in Ireland at the moment.

I see your point, but if we had a real leader in this country they would step up an take some action to try and sort out this mess. Unfortunately It seems that the opposition doesn't have such a leader.

FF are flittering about with half assed pansy attempts to sort things out. Everybody knows that they are shíte but we all sit and watch as they make a bollix out of everything.

It is the opposition who have it within their power to get them out. But as someone else already pointed out they have no balls.

We need Mr T. to pelt them with snickers and to tell them to get some nuts.

imme

Skrynesaver wrote: »

(1) Can't a referendum be called by a petition of voters?

Would adding anyone found guilty of corruption or defrauding the state to the list of those ineligible for public office not result in a few by-elections and a change of government?(2)

Wouldn't this also help clear out some of the corruption and cronyism that afflicts our state?(3)

As a further move in this direction shouldn't appointees to state boards have to go through the Civil Service commission rather than just handing these jobs out as "party" favours?(4)

(1) no, not possible, a referendum has to be initiated in the Dáil, as a bill.
(2) bankrupts can't stand as TD's as it is. It would take the Dáil to change status quo, as you suggest, FF wouldn't wear this, as their slim majority could be eroded. Do you think a lot of sitting TD's are guilty of corruption, have they been convicted?
(3) where is this corruption / cronyism centred.
(4) apointees to state boards shouldn't be party political, the best person for the job should be appointed. Garrett Fitzgerald was writing in one of his books in the '80's that appointees to prison visiting cttees were likely to be appointed to visit prisons as far away from their residence as possible to maximise the mileage they could claim. He didn't say he advocated this practice, but thought it common.

Dannyboy83

This was the option:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/small-businesses-in-threat-to-withhold-taxes-436815.html

Small businesses threatened they would not pay taxes if Cowen didn't grow a spine.

It appears to have worked:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/orourke-unpaid-leave-proposal-parked-436812.html

Mary O'Rourke says there will be public sector pay reform this year.
12 days unpaid leave may come in a few years instead.

Zambia

Daithinski wrote: »

We need Mr T. to pelt them with snickers and to tell them to get some nuts.

Maybe Mr T is an option because no-one has mentioned anyone so far who could lead the country.

Micheal Oleary ?

999 would become 1500-999