Cowen confirms social welfare cuts in Budget

97i9y3941

Please merge if this is suited to another thread,thanks

Cowen confirms social welfare cuts in Budget
Wednesday, 2 December 2009 12:35

The Taoiseach has confirmed there will be cuts in Social Welfare in next week's Budget.

He said the Budget will have to be debated and that there would also have to be a Social Welfare bill to bring the decisions into operation.

The Budget will be delivered next Wednseday, 9 December.



Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1202/budget.html

funny they had no hesitation cutting that,so maybe thats where the payment for the rest is been made up for...

jenzz

Fred83 wrote: »

Please merge if this is suited to another thread,thanks



funny they had no hesitation cutting that,so maybe thats where the payment for the rest is been made up for...

Exactly what I was thinking =- no hesitation at all

Rb

Ah I'm sure they'll change their mind when the f*cking unemployed threaten to go out on strike next.

inforfun

Probably also done in the form of an unpaid leave deal?

IronMan

He also needs to significantly cut rent allowance. It is putting an artifical floor on rent, and is nothing more than a state subsidy. But Frank Fahy and the FF landlord posse won't like that.

jenzz

IronMan wrote: »

He also needs to significantly cut rent allowance. It is putting an artifical floor on rent, and is nothing more than a state subsidy. But Frank Fahy and the FF landlord posse won't like that.

But if they cut rent allowance how does the person pay their rent - people forget so many low income family cannot makes ends meet as it is. When they cut it last year it made no difference to rents - they werent reduced by the landlords - they stayed the same & the person had to stump up the extra amount to meet the rent. Its the family who suffers - the normal joe & their kids.

Qs

Rb wrote: »

Ah I'm sure they'll change their mind when the f*cking unemployed threaten to go out on strike next.

Yeah who'll watch the Jeremy Kyle show then?

Rb

Qs wrote: »

Yeah who'll watch the Jeremy Kyle show then?

The teachers while they're taking their unpaid leave during school term instead of holidays obviously :pac:

Qs

haha brilliant. It all balances out.

milkerman

I have the greatest sympathy for those people recently made unemployed. Two years ago a good labourer on the buildings could clear a grand a week and is now on just in excess of 200 per week. That drop in income is calamitous.
The other side of the coin being those folks who have NEVER worked even through the years of full employment and who seem to exist for no other reason than to absorb resources.
And we are not talking about a few individuals - I suspect the number is in the order of 100,000 across the country. Not to mention the 'career' single parent with the live in boyfriend.

Bull76

What a disgrace and amockery to this country this government is. Punish the needy and helpless, because they don't have the balls to stand up to the unions.
For starters cut all politicans wages by 10% at a minimum no questions asked. Why should they be asked would you like a pay cut, just reduce there pay.
Leave the social welfare alone, The cost of living hasn't dropped enough to justify this. Bench marking works both ways thats why it's bench marking.
If the government had any balls stand up and do whats right for the country as a whole not look after those already well off.

Qs

milkerman wrote: »

I have the greatest sympathy for those people recently made unemployed. Two years ago a good labourer on the buildings could clear a grand a week and is now on just in excess of 200 per week. That drop in income is calamitous.

It is a terrible predicament for many but lets be honest, labourers should never have been on a grand a week in the first place.

ceret

Fred83 wrote: »

funny they had no hesitation cutting that,so maybe thats where the payment for the rest is been made up for...

Social welfare cuts were always planned.

jenzz wrote: »

But if they cut rent allowance how does the person pay their rent - people forget so many low income family cannot makes ends meet as it is. When they cut it last year it made no difference to rents - they werent reduced by the landlords - they stayed the same & the person had to stump up the extra amount to meet the rent. Its the family who suffers - the normal joe & their kids.

Yeah it'll be tough on people. But there are lots of empty houses now, rent *is* coming now. CSO is recoding an approximate 30% fall in rent source

K-9

jenzz wrote: »

But if they cut rent allowance how does the person pay their rent - people forget so many low income family cannot makes ends meet as it is. When they cut it last year it made no difference to rents - they werent reduced by the landlords - they stayed the same & the person had to stump up the extra amount to meet the rent. Its the family who suffers - the normal joe & their kids.

Most landlords have cut rent. If they don't, leave and they can try and get it of somebody else.

Daithinski

K-9 wrote: »

Most landlords have cut rent. If they don't, leave and they can try and get it of somebody else.

Leases?

Rev. BlueJeans

This was inevitable. Cuts across the board are one thing (and I don't disagree with them in principle), but there is a lot more that needs to be done.

Genuine applicants need to be supported, trained (and not by a 1 billion a year behemoth-that needs reform too, to say the least), and ultimately weaned off the teat before they get stuck in a rut.

Working for a living needs to be an aspiration, rather than something to avoid, because you'll do better on the welfare, which it is now for many lower paid occupations.

The dole itself is not the whole story either, there are allowances out there that most working people or the recent unemployed know little of, but the goons in tracksuits, and their parents before them, have down pat.

There has been talk here of a sliding scale of unemployment benefit, reducing year on year. This to my mind would be an excellent move, and should be implemented now. The main problem is, once you give someone something, it is very hard to take it away. It will be very hard to see someone who has mucked in for the last ten years, get lumped in with some bollix who hasn't done a tap for fifteen years, but I can't see another way forward.

I also feel that, in tandem with reshuffling the way we provide public services, extra credits could be offered to those on the live register with suitable skills to engage in community projects, and I don't just mean filling potholes either. On a temporary basis, people could provide home help, assistance with civic projects. Anything basically, and maintain some self esteem for themselves into the bargain.

A radical rethink is needed here, and nobody should be overlooked, in either sense.

K-9

Daithinski wrote: »

Leases?

So sue a Social Welfare recipient?

Fighting Irish

Fred83 wrote: »

funny they had no hesitation cutting that,so maybe thats where the payment for the rest is been made up for...

It's about time they say "Fook the people who have failed, we'll reward the people who were sensible"

ps not all people on the dole have failed, but most have

seclachi

Fighting Irish wrote: »

It's about time they say "Fook the people who have failed, we'll reward the people who were sensible"

ps not all people on the dole have failed, but most have

Uh yeah, because every filthy stinking builder who lost his job was just out to destroy the economy anyway, so cut there dole ! We can totally keep the public sector going at its current rates after all, we just have to cut everything else to the bone.

Joe1919

Rb wrote: »

Ah I'm sure they'll change their mind when the f*cking unemployed threaten to go out on strike next.

The unemployed should organise a 'day of work' in protest at the cut. If the government refuse to concede to their demands, an all out 'work out' should be organised.
The unemployed should work for as long as it takes until the governments submits to their demands.

97i9y3941

ok there are people who where able to work during the good times but are committing fraud as it is by sitting on it for years even before the boom*god knows why they where never called in*,but they are targeting the vunerable again,i doubt a civil servant with kids is living off €204*plus allowances* a week?

murphaph

jenzz wrote: »

But if they cut rent allowance how does the person pay their rent - people forget so many low income family cannot makes ends meet as it is. When they cut it last year it made no difference to rents - they werent reduced by the landlords - they stayed the same & the person had to stump up the extra amount to meet the rent. Its the family who suffers - the normal joe & their kids.

I call bullsh!t on this. I know a bit about it as a landlord see. I have my former home (typical 3 bed semi in Dublin) let to people on Rent Supplement (Rent Allowance is something else but people often confuse the two).

I cut the rent from €1200 to €1100 in January and then to €975 after the changes to Rent Supplement were announced. Unlike some members of the public sector and their unions-I have accepted the economic reality of 2009. I expect rents will fall further and I will drop them in line to whatever is required to keep the tenants in situ. Rent Supplement does indeed provide an artificial floor to rents generally. If it was reduced year on year rents would fall-FACT.

Any landlord who refuses to drop rents in the face of the market falling is as bad as the public sector unions but the difference is, it's his money he's gambling with, not the future generations' of Ireland.

mikemac

murphaph wrote: »

I call bullsh!t on this. I know a bit about it as a landlord see. I have my former home (typical 3 bed semi in Dublin) let to people on Rent Supplement (Rent Allowance is something else but people often confuse the two).

I think what jenzz was aiming at is that small bedsits that rent to single people at around 400-600 per month didn't drop at all! If you are single and can't/won't share a house then a bedsit is your option. Certainly I've read many threads here about bedsit prices not dropping while apartments and houses around the 800 per month and above level dropped.
Though reading it again jenzz mentions families. So maybe not but my point on bedsits still stands

Now you own a 3 bed house and of course rent is dropping, nobody is doubting that.
But it's a different market, a single person getting government assistance with rent could never rent your house

murphaph

mikemac wrote: »

But it's a different market, a single person getting government assistance with rent could never rent your house

And rightly so-why should the taxpayer pay (90%+ of) the rent on a 1300 sq ft house for one person to rattle around in?

In Germany those on the equivalent of rent supplement can avail of 45 sq. m absloute maximum in a not too expensive area. Anything over and above that and the applicant will be told to move before his application will be looked at.

If bedsit rents aren't dropping, the demand must be there or the thresholds for rent supplement are still too high or the tenants have collectively opted not to move to cheaper accommodation. It's one of those three.

mikemac

murphaph wrote: »

And rightly so-why should the taxpayer pay (90%+ of) the rent on a 1300 sq ft house for one person to rattle around in?

Oh, I agree. I never said otherwise.
As for sq ft, they stopped teaching the imperial system in school back in 1980's. Square metres these days

murphaph wrote: »

If bedsit rents aren't dropping, the demand must be there or the thresholds for rent supplement are still too high or the tenants have collectively opted not to move to cheaper accommodation. It's one of those three.

I would also say it's a combination of three.
If you're looking for a bedsit the rents are stubbornly resisting drops for all those reasons.

You seem to be very aware for a landlord, wish more landlords were like you having dealt with many

K-9

mikemac wrote: »

Oh, I agree. I never said otherwise.
As for sq ft, they stopped teaching the imperial system in school back in 1980's. Square metres these days



I would also say it's a combination of three.
If you're looking for a bedsit the rents are stubbornly resisting drops for all those reasons.

You seem to be very aware for a landlord, wish more landlords were like you having dealt with many

My experience of dealing with construction companies and landlords is they are dropping rents, by about 20-30%, which is reflected in the statistics.

There maybe a few resisting but eventually they'll have to reduce. Either that or no tenants.

Tipsy Mac

I think the dole should be cut by 25% on anyone who has been out of work for 5 years plus as they are career dosers. Those who have been made unemployed in the last 5 years atleast made an effort to work and should get what the career dosers got seeing as they payed their way upto now.

amjon

Bull76 wrote: »

Leave the social welfare alone, The cost of living hasn't dropped enough to justify this.

So what? They just have to learn to live with no social life and on beans and toast. Kind of like being a student without the fun.

Marinjohn

I can still hear Cowen,Lenihan,and Hanifan "we will not penalize the most vunerable in our society".Not only have they penalized them,and they are far from finished yet,they have stomped them into a mudhole...What these cuts in Social Welfare will cause is : 1...increase in crime.....2...more traffic jams in Newry,which will result in less money for the exchequere...

kumate_champ07

IronMan wrote: »

He also needs to significantly cut rent allowance. It is putting an artifical floor on rent, and is nothing more than a state subsidy. But Frank Fahy and the FF landlord posse won't like that.

my rent allowance was already cut by about 16euro a week this year, my rent didnt go down. its hard enough finding an extra 16euro a week, but if it gets cut again I'll be struggling

Atwork

amjon wrote: »

So what? They just have to learn to live with no social life and on beans and toast. Kind of like being a student without the fun.

Assuming you have a job, I hope you dont lose it.