Cowen confirms social welfare cuts in Budget

Hells Belle

ntlbell wrote: »

You say that like a mortgage is some god given right?

if you can't afford one, it's something to think about?

Ok so I should sell my home (which we bought pre-bubble btw), move into a rent allowance property and claim MORE from the social welfare, dunno where you learned your maths....do you work for the dept of finance???

As I said my oh was out every day for 12 months trying to find work, he was either too qualified, not qualified enough etc so for you to say he wasnt trying enough is a fcuking disgrace. You should be ashamed of that comment. I don't have Sky, I don't have loans, we have one PAYG mobile, we shop at Aldi. If you can suggest where I can cut my expenditure I'd be glad to hear it, seeing as you know it all.

ntlbell

Hells Belle wrote: »

Ok so I should sell my home (which we bought pre-bubble btw), move into a rent allowance property and claim MORE from the social welfare, dunno where you learned your maths....do you work for the dept of finance???

As I said my oh was out every day for 12 months trying to find work, he was either too qualified, not qualified enough etc so for you to say he wasnt trying enough is a fcuking disgrace. You should be ashamed of that comment. I don't have Sky, I don't have loans, we have one PAYG mobile, we shop at Aldi. If you can suggest where I can cut my expenditure I'd be glad to hear it, seeing as you know it all.

I'm not suggesting you do anything with your home, you asked it like it was some divine right to own one. No one twisted your arm to buy one.

what is out every day? walking on to building sites and asking for work? every single day for 12 months? and couldn't clock up a single hour? I find this very hard to believe, he must be very unlucky.

I was under the impression he was a tradesman? how can a tradesman be over qualified? surely people hiring tradesmen always would want the most experience or did I pick something up wrong?

I know an abundance of people highly qualified and some with none who have all managed to pick up work, it might not be what they want to do but they do it.

has he handed in his cv to mc donalds? constantly hiring?

garages?

newsagents?

there is plenty of work out there and when someone says they can't get work i have to assume they're not trying hard enough.

You don't need to cut that much, we currently have deflation running at about 5%/6% so if you could survive before it should be pretty much the same if they cut 5/6%

do you run any cars? - sell/cut.

NTL? cut.

smokers? cut.

drinkers? cut.

clothes for the kids. SVDP.

there is plenty of aspects we can cut, most just don't want to do it.

K-9

Problem is SW costs even more than the Public Sector pay bill. Both have to take a hit. There is no pot of Gold out there to be able to leave both alone.

the_barfly1

It really, really pisses me off the way some people attack the unemployed, especially in times like these.
6/7 years ago i'd understand it- there was no excuse for anybody not to have a job if they wanted it, but FFS theres 450k on the dole at the moment and maybe about 5-7k jobs available at any given time (if even)!
Im 24 now, and had been employed full time without gaps of more than a few days between jobs since i was 17 (and working part time since about 14)
I was in the construction sector when it all went to pot last year, and out of embarrassment waited 2 months after being made redundant to sign on, exhausting a lot of my savings.
Ive been all over looking for work and in the past 12 months was lucky enough to fill 5 months of them with work (albeit only on seasonal contracts, but worked my ass off).
I get the impression that those of you lucky enough to have jobs think that the 450k people signing on are just lazy- i just hope to god you dont end up in the same situation or you'll be in for a rude awakening.
W@nkers complaining that people on welfare shouldnt have cars etc, well i have a car and i bloody well earned it, and live on beans on toast some weeks to keep it on the road because i know WHEN i do find my next job i'll most likely need to commute because theres sweet fanny adams going on in my neck of the woods work-wise. The aforementioned work i did manage to get this year wouldnt have been possible to get without transport (80 mile commute each way).
So get down off your high horses, get back to work and STFU. Be grateful you have a job where can spend your days posting on boards rather than doing actual work.

*rant over*

Hells Belle

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm not suggesting you do anything with your home, you asked it like it was some divine right to own one. No one twisted your arm to buy one. I never said it was, link to post please?

what is out every day? walking on to building sites and asking for work? every single day for 12 months? and couldn't clock up a single hour? I find this very hard to believe, he must be very unlucky. If you know if any building sites hiring please let me know.

I was under the impression he was a tradesman? how can a tradesman be over qualified? surely people hiring tradesmen always would want the most experience or did I pick something up wrong? YES too qualified for McDs, Burger King, Garages etc

I know an abundance of people highly qualified and some with none who have all managed to pick up work, it might not be what they want to do but they do it. Well good for you.

has he handed in his cv to mc donalds? constantly hiring? See above

garages? See above

newsagents? See above

there is plenty of work out there and when someone says they can't get work i have to assume they're not trying hard enough. Ok so you are job searching lately are you??

You don't need to cut that much, we currently have deflation running at about 5%/6% so if you could survive before it should be pretty much the same if they cut 5/6%

do you run any cars? - sell/cut. DONE

NTL? cut. DONE

smokers? cut. NOPE

drinkers? cut. NOPE

clothes for the kids. SVDP.

there is plenty of aspects we can cut, most just don't want to do it.

I really hope you don't fall off your high horse, you've a long way to come. Sorry but thats the real world, maybe you might like to try living in it. Ok any real suggestions?

Rb

If he was out every single day for 12 months, going to every shop, every company, every buy and sell ad, replying to every jobs.ie & irishjobs.ie ad that he could then there is something very, very wrong. Either he has something that is brought up, like a conviction, which is preventing him from getting work or he just isn't doing as much as you think.

I lost a job and spent a while unemployed, the only reason I didn't get a job immediately was because of my own perceptions of grandeur from previous positions which stopped me applying for jobs that I felt were "beneath me". As soon as I put out a few CVs into retail jobs I got one very soon afterwards. Though it didn't pay much, it was better than being on the scratcher. I also worked a second job to increase my weekly takings to being somewhat near what I was used to earning, despite working a lot harder.

My point is, there's work out there if you want it enough. I'm sorry if your family is in a position but to be saying that he was out every day for 12 months and couldn't find any work suggests a problem with him, not the job market or the employers, or qualifications or any other secondary elements.

Did he attend the Marks and Spencer recruitment drive recently where over 1000 people turned up? If not, why not? And if so, why didn't he get the job?

I'm not here to quiz you over your personal circumstance, it's just that unemployed people have a habit of blaming everyone else but themselves for their situation and it doesn't make sense that someone who supposedly put in so much work couldn't get a job.

ntlbell

the_barfly1 wrote: »

W@nkers complaining that people on welfare shouldnt have cars etc, well i have a car and i bloody well earned it, and live on beans on toast some weeks to keep it on the road because i know WHEN i do find my next job i'll most likely need to commute because theres sweet fanny adams going on in my neck of the woods work-wise. The aforementioned work i did manage to get this year wouldnt have been possible to get without transport (80 mile commute each way).
So get down off your high horses, get back to work and STFU. Be grateful you have a job where can spend your days posting on boards rather than doing actual work.

*rant over*

who's having a go at them?

I think in most threads they get some excellent advice.

not having a car is nothing to do with being on the social welfare.

if you can't run a car working or not, get rid of it. there is a case for people living in certain areas who it might be important but if you're in any large city with public transport there's no need for it. it has nothing to do with not having one because you didn't earn it. less of the over the top joe duffy responses, this is not joe duffy,

when you're on the social you have to re-adjust your lifestyle choices.

that means removing parts of it you could once afford, NOT BECAUSE YOU DON'T DESERVE BECAUSE YOUR ON THE SOCIAL

it's because you now can't afford it, understand the difference?

ring joe.

Hells Belle

ntlbell wrote: »

who's having a go at them?

eh you are

ntlbell

Hells Belle wrote: »

I really hope you don't fall off your high horse, you've a long way to come. Sorry but thats the real world, maybe you might like to try living in it. Ok any real suggestions?

has he put up notices in the local shops?

did he put an ad in the local newsletter?

did he put an ad in the parsih news letter? (small donation a euro would be enough)

has he put leaflets in the local areas?

what area do you live in?

so if you have no cars, no insurance no tax, no loan repayments, bought before the bubble so mortgage should be relative small with very low interest rates. no no ntl no phone bill

you're in a hell of a lot of better position that a lot of people imo

ntlbell

Hells Belle wrote: »

eh you are

I am? by making a few suggestions? hows that having a go?

I hope should i be in your position people will be so liberal with their advice and suggestions.

Hells Belle

Rb wrote: »

If he was out every single day for 12 months, going to every shop, every company, every buy and sell ad, replying to every jobs.ie & irishjobs.ie ad that he could then there is something very, very wrong. Either he has something that is brought up, like a conviction, which is preventing him from getting work or he just isn't doing as much as you think.

I lost a job and spent a while unemployed, the only reason I didn't get a job immediately was because of my own perceptions of grandeur from previous positions which stopped me applying for jobs that I felt were "beneath me". As soon as I put out a few CVs into retail jobs I got one very soon afterwards. Though it didn't pay much, it was better than being on the scratcher. I also worked a second job to increase my weekly takings to being somewhat near what I was used to earning, despite working a lot harder.

My point is, there's work out there if you want it enough. I'm sorry if your family is in a position but to be saying that he was out every day for 12 months and couldn't find any work suggests a problem with him, not the job market or the employers, or qualifications or any other secondary elements.

Did he attend the Marks and Spencer recruitment drive recently where over 1000 people turned up? If not, why not? And if so, why didn't he get the job?

I wouldn't dream of using the "too qualified" excuse for this either as they took on former solitictors in these roles.

He did get a few jobs which were contract - a week or so here and there but when he was looking before he got his course he was told at the local McD's not to bother filling in a form as they had a cabinet full of them, he kept at them and filled one in in the end and never heard again. At one garage they told him they weren't hiring anyone with qualifications because if something better came along they would be gone.

He has no convictions, is a nice chatty chap and a hard worker. He had glowing references from his former employer but none of it worked, he's registered with every recruitment agency in our area and theyve found him 1 job for 3 weeks. He's not the only one I know in this situation, a lot of his former colleagues are the same. I saw him head out every morning with a stack of cvs and I saw him come back upset every evening. He couldn't have done more to get us out of this situation but there's a little thing called the "global financial crisis" thats going on. Hopefully our Australian visas will come through soon and we won't be a burden to Ireland anymore.

the_barfly1

ntlbell wrote: »

who's having a go at them?

I think in most threads they get some excellent advice.

not having a car is nothing to do with being on the social welfare.

if you can't run a car working or not, get rid of it. there is a case for people living in certain areas who it might be important but if you're in any large city with public transport there's no need for it. it has nothing to do with not having one because you didn't earn it. less of the over the top joe duffy responses, this is not joe duffy,

when you're on the social you have to re-adjust your lifestyle choices.

that means removing parts of it you could once afford, NOT BECAUSE YOU DON'T DESERVE BECAUSE YOUR ON THE SOCIAL

it's because you now can't afford it, understand the difference?

ring joe.

Excellent advice? In all fairness all you're doing is having a go.

Re-adjust lifestyle choices? I think that goes without saying, ive already retrained for several different industries but it doesn't make finding a job any easier.

Dont be condescending and self righteous until you've walked a few miles in someone elses shoes.



Oh and re: Joe Duffy- his show is for whingers- more suited to people worried about losing their criminally high wages for scratching their holes and posting on boards all day in their govt departments.

Im a bit more pro-active than that tbh

Hells Belle

ntlbell wrote: »

I am? by making a few suggestions? hows that having a go?

I hope should i be in your position people will be so liberal with their advice and suggestions.

Advise yes, looking down your nose, eh no thanks, please see above post. Is it an Irish thing to kick people when they are down??? I hope you never end up in our situation.

ntlbell

the_barfly1 wrote: »

Excellent advice? In all fairness all you're doing is having a go.

Re-adjust lifestyle choices? I think that goes without saying, ive already retrained for several different industries but it doesn't make finding a job any easier.

Dont be condescending and self righteous until you've walked a few miles in someone elses shoes.



Oh and re: Joe Duffy- his show is for whingers- more suited to people worried about losing their criminally high wages for scratching their holes and posting on boards all day in their govt departments.

Im a bit more pro-active than that tbh

it doesn't go without saying a lot of people don't re-adjust, they think they should still be able to have luxries, there was one guy here recently who was complaining his only social outley was to go to the cinema, which cost hime 20e?

the vast majority don't adjust, they still think they should have the car, YOU yourself said they should which is just a bizzare way to think.

people think the social is a wage replaement, it's so you can survive while your out of work, it's not for anything else.

you're assuming i haven't walked in the shoes.

don't make assumptions, again, that's for joe.

ntlbell

Hells Belle wrote: »

Advise yes, looking down your nose, eh no thanks, please see above post. Is it an Irish thing to kick people when they are down??? I hope you never end up in our situation.

i'm not looking down my nose at anyone.

You know nothing about my current situation or previous ones, so again don't make assumptions.

you made some points i addressed them. when people are down, they think everyone trying to help them is being condesening and looking down on them

i'm not responsible for how tall or small you feel.

Rb

Hells Belle wrote: »

He did get a few jobs which were contract - a week or so here and there but when he was looking before he got his course he was told at the local McD's not to bother filling in a form as they had a cabinet full of them, he kept at them and filled one in in the end and never heard again. At one garage they told him they weren't hiring anyone with qualifications because if something better came along they would be gone.

He has no convictions, is a nice chatty chap and a hard worker. He had glowing references from his former employer but none of it worked, he's registered with every recruitment agency in our area and theyve found him 1 job for 3 weeks. He's not the only one I know in this situation, a lot of his former colleagues are the same. I saw him head out every morning with a stack of cvs and I saw him come back upset every evening. He couldn't have done more to get us out of this situation but there's a little thing called the "global financial crisis" thats going on. Hopefully our Australian visas will come through soon and we won't be a burden to Ireland anymore.

You do realise there's very, very little work in Australia at the moment, and any that is going they generally give it to the natives?

If you're having problems finding work here, Australia certainly won't have a lot of answers, I know people who've tried to get into retail there only to be told they don't give retail jobs to "travellers" as they could be gone the next week.

I hope you've a substantial amount saved, I know managers who've went over and have had to live off their savings while looking for work, only to have blown the lot after a few months and have had to return home with nothing due to not being able to find work.

Again, you're blaming everything else for the situation you're in. Global financial crisis? Yes, there is indeed a financial crisis going on, however everyone I know who has tried to get a job has got one...

I did deliveries for a while, why hasn't he picked up a delivery job? There's still loads of them going and they don't exactly take a masters in physics to obtain...

Uuuh Patsy

Rb wrote: »

You do realise there's very, very little work in Australia at the moment, and any that is going they generally give it to the natives?

If you're having problems finding work here, Australia certainly won't have a lot of answers, I know people who've tried to get into retail there only to be told they don't give retail jobs to "travellers" as they could be gone the next week.

I hope you've a substantial amount saved, I know managers who've went over and have had to live off their savings while looking for work, only to have blown the lot after a few months and have had to return home with nothing due to not being able to find work.

Again, you're blaming everything else for the situation you're in. Global financial crisis? Yes, there is indeed a financial crisis going on, however everyone I know who has tried to get a job has got one...

I did deliveries for a while, why hasn't he picked up a delivery job? There's still loads of them going and they don't exactly take a masters in physics to obtain...

Theres plenty of work in Oz... Believe me, you will be far better off down here with the rest of us... I left the auld sod last July 08 and I cannot believe whats been happening since. It looks like there wont be whole lot to go back to if I ever got the inclination

Hells Belle

yes rb we are fully aware of the situation in Australia we applied in Aug 08 and have been keeping track almost daily ever since. We have a friends & family out there with businesses who are willing to help us when we arrive. I would never relocate my family on the other side of the planet if we didn't have guarentees like pr & at least 1 job. We won't be moving until things are back on the up anyway. So Ireland will have one less sponging family to deal with.:rolleyes:

ntlbell

Uuuh Patsy wrote: »

Theres plenty of work in Oz... Believe me, you will be far better off down here with the rest of us... I left the auld sod last July and I cannot believe whats been happening since. It looks like there wont be whole lot to go back to if I ever got the inclination

there is a huge decline in the construction sector in oz and last year they starting to close the doors.

his best hope for a visa (working one) is to the skill list currently in demand.

construction is not something in demand as much as was previously.

he might have better luck in canada.

the_barfly1

ntlbell wrote: »

it doesn't go without saying a lot of people don't re-adjust, they think they should still be able to have luxries, there was one guy here recently who was complaining his only social outley was to go to the cinema, which cost hime 20e?

the vast majority don't adjust, they still think they should have the car, YOU yourself said they should which is just a bizzare way to think.

people think the social is a wage replaement, it's so you can survive while your out of work, it's not for anything else.

you're assuming i haven't walked in the shoes.

don't make assumptions, again, that's for joe.

Re: car- i'm only speaking for myself and people with similar experiences to myself. If i didn't have it id have even less oppurtunity for employment because i live in a rural area where there are practically no jobs (and the ones there are, i also get deemed to experienced/qualified for)
You're painting the 'vast majority' with the same brush, saying they dont adjust, in my experience i do, ive cut the bollocks out of my expenditure to ensure i can keep all my options open (by keeping my vehicle taxed, insured, nct'd)
Theres no need to talk down to people less fortunate than yourself so cut the joe duffy crap, im not here to give a bleedin' hearts story, just to defend the position of people like myself to folks like you who seem to have a skewed perception of the reality out there at the moment.
And im sorry to assume you havent been in a simila situation, but judging by your posts and lack of empathy towards people who are doing their damnedest to find work, i just dont buy it

Hells Belle

ntlbell wrote: »

there is a huge decline in the construction sector in oz and last year they starting to close the doors.

his best hope for a visa (working one) is to the skill list currently in demand.

construction is not something in demand as much as was previously.

he might have better luck in canada.

So an expert in Aus immigration/economic situation as well, god is there anything you don't know? We have Queensland State Sponsorship and as of today a case officer no CSL, we'll have our visas in a few weeks and we'll be gone by May.

Rb

Uuuh Patsy wrote: »

Theres plenty of work in Oz... Believe me, you will be far better off down here with the rest of us... I left the auld sod last July 08 and I cannot believe whats been happening since. It looks like there wont be whole lot to go back to if I ever got the inclination

Plenty of work for who?

You're giving a very false impression that anyone who wants a job there can have one.

the_barfly1

ntlbell wrote: »

there is a huge decline in the construction sector in oz and last year they starting to close the doors.

his best hope for a visa (working one) is to the skill list currently in demand.

construction is not something in demand as much as was previously.

he might have better luck in canada.

Ill agree with you on this, i too know many people who have gone over there (tradesmen) under the illusion that they'd be handed a job contract walking through the airport, only to come home home with their tails between their legs..

ntlbell

the_barfly1 wrote: »

Re: car- i'm only speaking for myself and people with similar experiences to myself. If i didn't have it id have even less oppurtunity for employment because i live in a rural area where there are practically no jobs (and the ones there are, i also get deemed to experienced/qualified for)
You're painting the 'vast majority' with the same brush, saying they dont adjust, in my experience i do, ive cut the bollocks out of my expenditure to ensure i can keep all my options open (by keeping my vehicle taxed, insured, nct'd)
Theres no need to talk down to people less fortunate than yourself so cut the joe duffy crap, im not here to give a bleedin' hearts story, just to defend the position of people like myself to folks like you who seem to have a skewed perception of the reality out there at the moment.
And im sorry to assume you havent been in a simila situation, but judging by your posts and lack of empathy towards people who are doing their damnedest to find work, i just dont buy it

As I said, people in certain areas will have different requirements. You're one of these people.

Ok, the vast majority I come across don't adjust properly, hows that?

I don't have a skewed perception of the reality, what do you think i'm living in some sort of bubble?

I'm not some sort of silver spooned moron.

I just have a different way of looking at how to deal with it.

is my way so detached from reality it's un atainable?

to put a ladder on your shoulder and clean some windows?

grab a lawn mower and cut some grass?

have we got so far up our own arses we're too good for this?

give me a break.

harsh reality? some people haven't a fricking clue.

ntlbell

Hells Belle wrote: »

So an expert in Aus immigration/economic situation as well, god is there anything you don't know? We have Queensland State Sponsorship and as of today a case officer no CSL, we'll have our visas in a few weeks and we'll be gone by May.

Did I claim to be an expert?

no.

I'm delighted for you and hope it works out. congratulations.

the_barfly1

ntlbell wrote: »

As I said, people in certain areas will have different requirements. You're one of these people.

Ok, the vast majority I come across don't adjust properly, hows that?

I don't have a skewed perception of the reality, what do you think i'm living in some sort of bubble?

I'm not some sort of silver spooned moron.

I just have a different way of looking at how to deal with it.

is my way so detached from reality it's un atainable?

to put a ladder on your shoulder and clean some windows?

grab a lawn mower and cut some grass?

have we got so far up our own arses we're too good for this?

give me a break.

harsh reality? some people haven't a fricking clue.

Am on the scratcher, cant afford a ladder or a lawnmower! Heres hoping that santa is good this year!
Just out of interest ntlbell, are you working?... For ntl?...

.........any jobs going?

wicklaman83

ntlbell wrote: »

Did I claim to be an expert?

no.

I'm delighted for you and hope it works out. congratulations.

my good friend and fellow poster let there be no mistake your posts can only originate from one type of person and thats a tosser and hells belle i wouldnt lower my standards to reply to his posts

ntlbell

the_barfly1 wrote: »

Am on the scratcher, cant afford a ladder or a lawnmower! Heres hoping that santa is good this year!
Just out of interest ntlbell, are you working?... For ntl?...

.........any jobs going?

That's fine, you can borrow a ladder I'm sure

You don't need a ladder to clean a few cars.

You can rent a lawnmower for a very small fee which you will earn back.

I'm sure that after cutting the ntl out and everything else you'll have a few euro to rent the lawn mower

see the difference is, one will find the way not to do, I'm trying to find the way to do.

I work yes.

thebman

ntlbell wrote: »

That's fine, you can borrow a ladder I'm sure

You don't need a ladder to clean a few cars.

You can rent a lawnmower for a very small fee which you will earn back.

I'm sure that after cutting the ntl out and everything else you'll have a few euro to rent the lawn mower

see the difference is, one will find the way not to do, I'm trying to find the way to do.

I work yes.

The amount of that work available would be very low given not many people have the disposable income to pay someone to mow their lawn these days.

Most people are not above doing it themselves to save the money.

ntlbell

thebman wrote: »

The amount of that work available would be very low given not many people have the disposable income to pay someone to mow their lawn these days.

Most people are not above doing it themselves to save the money.

That's just an excuse really.

a lot of people won't like to climb ladders etc to clean their house windows.

you price it right.

10e front and back or whatever. sure onesome people won't have the money. a lot will. you only need a few a day to keep you going.

if you say i'm not going out because no one will pay, you earn 0

so what's one to lose but a bit of time? which you have plenty of.