Cowen confirms social welfare cuts in Budget

the_barfly1

ntlbell wrote: »

That's fine, you can borrow a ladder I'm sure

You don't need a ladder to clean a few cars.

You can rent a lawnmower for a very small fee which you will earn back.

I'm sure that after cutting the ntl out and everything else you'll have a few euro to rent the lawn mower

see the difference is, one will find the way not to do, I'm trying to find the way to do.

I work yes.

I have a few bits and pieces that i do for a few bob anyway, not regular but a help, but thanks for the advice, my original argument here was defending the position of those who cannot find full time work.. (your suggestion, to do legally, involves becoming self employed and paying public liability insurance etc which would be expensive also)

Lirael

Fred83 wrote: »

what annoys me,and everyone probably knows in everytown theres a certain few people who have been on it for years,why the heck where they never called in,im sure in england/other euro counties you woundnt get away with this!

that's true

Ireland is the only country that allows people remain out of the labour market sometimes for decades ...

I came to Ireland 3 years ago from one of the EU countries and I have to assure you that after one year on a dole when you cannot provide proof that you tried to find a job or refused to take one of 3 proposed in a row you would immediately be kicked off the system and banned to get a new dole for the following 12 consecutive months...

I would also say that there should be changes in FAS operating - they shall offer jobs to people not only taking the job posts from employers as I haven't ever heard of FAS offering job to anyone ...


I am newly unemployed, for the first time after 13 years working and this is not to my liking ... I am looking for a new job but it is not easy even though I have high qualifications ... and living on 204 euro per week with 2 kids when just my rent is 150 pw ... it's hard but manageable..

I am not saying that all Irish people are same but I think the first thing the government should do is to revise how many of them are staying on the dole for more than 5-10 years and ban them immediately without any entitlements because these are the ones who cost the most .... those people will never be valuable employees again ....

I would also think about cutting CB payment to those who make more than 50K pa and increase taxes for those who get more than 60K pa... lets jusy see the average member of parliament is making ca 250K pa why shaould they still receive extra support for their children? they are wealthy enough ...

GeorgeBailey

ntlbell wrote: »

i'm not looking down my nose at anyone.

It may not be what you're intending to do but it's certainly the way it comes across.

Hells Belle

darren254 wrote: »

my good friend and fellow poster let there be no mistake your posts can only originate from one type of person and thats a tosser and hells belle i wouldnt lower my standards to reply to his posts

Thanks Darren254, couldn't have put it better myself, I'm off now to get some hair shirts of SVDP and dog food to eat while we live at the side of the road, cause thats all we deserve :pac:

AlekSmart

I am not saying that all Irish people are same but I think the first thing the government should do is to revise how many of them are staying on the dole for more than 5-10 years and ban them immediately without any entitlements because these are the ones who cost the most .... those people will never be valuable employees again ....

Good Heavens,this is ghastly stuff indeed....the sauce of it....!

Foreign types daring to question our traditional virtues of caring for and encouraging the less-well-off in our society.

This does not bode well for the future !!


OOps..... I almost forgot to include a Cynicism Warning !!!!

the_barfly1

Lirael wrote: »

that's true

Ireland is the only country that allows people remain out the labour market sometimes for decades ...

I came to Ireland 3 years ago from one of the EU countries and I have to assure you that after one year on a dole when you cannot provide proof that you tried to find a job or refused to take one of 3 proposed in a row you would immediately be kicked off the system and banned to get a new dole for the following 12 consecutive months...

I would also say that there should be changes in FAS operating - they shall offer jobs to people not only taking the job posts from employers as I haven't ever heard of FAS offering job to anyone ...


I am newly unemployed, for the first time after 13 years working and this is not to my liking ... I am looking for a new job but it is not easy even though I have high qualifications ... and living on 204 euro per week with 2 kids when just my rent is 150 pw ... it's hard but manageable..

I am not saying that all Irish people are same but I think the first thing the government should do is to revise how many of them are staying on the dole for more than 5-10 years and ban them immediately without any entitlements because these are the ones who cost the most .... those people will never be valuable employees again ....

I would also think about cutting CB payment to those who make more than 50K pa and increase taxes for those who get more than 60K pa... lets jusy see the average member of parliament is making ca 250K pa why shaould they still receive extra support for their children? they are wealthy enough ...

Agreed. Ive also witnessed these people that have been on the dole for many years when theres been absolutely no excuse...
And as for fás... They're useful to an extent- very good jobs database and *some* decent courses- but in my experience the staff are less than helpful when it comes to the jobs that you must apply for through the branch... ie- trying to follow up on your applications

Lirael

AlekSmart wrote: »

Good Heavens,this is ghastly stuff indeed....the sauce of it....!

Foreign types daring to question our traditional virtues of caring for and encouraging the less-well-off in our society.

This does not bode well for the future !!


OOps..... I almost forgot to include a Cynicism Warning !!!!

hehe what ghastly do you see in it????????

do you really agree to pay for those who are too lazy to look for a job?

it makes no difference if I am Irish or not I just think it is not fair to put every unemployed in one bucket, there are some who really want to work but it is sad that there is a huge amount of them who don't even try .... living on the easy money from gvt

PS Your nickname AlekSmart suggests you aren't Irish either :P

thebman

Lirael wrote: »

hehe what ghastly do you see in it????????

do you really agree to pay for those who are too lazy to look for a job?

it makes no difference if I am Irish or not I just think it is not fair to put every unemployed in one bucket, there are some who really want to work but it is sad that there is a huge amount of them who don't even try .... living on the easy money from gvt

PS Your nickname AlekSmart suggests you aren't Irish either :P

And there are those that were working and drawing at the same time.

Lirael

the_barfly1 wrote: »

And as for fás... They're useful to an extent- very good jobs database and *some* decent courses- but in my experience the staff are less than helpful when it comes to the jobs that you must apply for through the branch... ie- trying to follow up on your applications

ha! that's true - I never got any follow up of the applications I sent

and unfortunately for my I am unemployed too short to apply for any job under FAS schemes ...

Lirael

thebman wrote: »

And there are those that were working and drawing at the same time.

yeah that's pain in the ass ...

Rev. BlueJeans

darren254 wrote: »

what has to be discouraged.you lose a job,you look for a job,cant find a job so you have to get the dole.

So what, we should just leave it at that indefinitely? An opportunity will arise at some stage in the future. It's that kind of thinking that left the bones of 200k people sitting on their asses during the boom, when the government and the bleeding hearts were claiming full employment, and just ignoring the problem.

darren254 wrote: »

1200 for 14/15 hrs a day.5 days a wk and maybe more for working 5 hrs of a saturday is fair is it not

So give it 70 hours or so, equating to a flat week of the high 600s? 18 quid an hour?

For driving a crane?

Are you kidding me?

Rev. BlueJeans

thebman wrote: »

And there are those that were working and drawing at the same time.

And I hope they're caught, and made to pay back the shortfall, even at a couple of euro a week, until they're planted.

The_Honeybadger

Rev. BlueJeans wrote: »

And I hope they're caught, and made to pay back the shortfall, even at a couple of euro a week, until they're planted.

I've heard they only make you pay back a paltry amount per week if you get caught. Is this true I wonder, anybody any experience of this? These people should face criminal convictions in my view. and maybe publish names in the paper, that'd really twist the knife for those caught as many would not be able to pay back the money

Rev. BlueJeans

I agree.

I'm not sure what the penalties are, myself

wicklaman83

Rev. BlueJeans wrote: »

So what, we should just leave it at that indefinitely? An opportunity will arise at some stage in the future. It's that kind of thinking that left the bones of 200k people sitting on their asses during the boom, when the government and the bleeding hearts were claiming full employment, and just ignoring the problem.



So give it 70 hours or so, equating to a flat week of the high 600s? 18 quid an hour?

For driving a crane?

Are you kidding me?

and you know the ins and outs of a tower crane do you.its not just sitting on your arse looking at the view.no im not kidding you and no you dont leave it at that.i lost my job,looked for a week then joined the dole and i'm still looking.i dont want to be on the dole as much as the next person so hows abouts you lose the attitude

wicklaman83

darren254 wrote: »

my good friend and fellow poster let there be no mistake your posts can only originate from one type of person and thats a tosser and hells belle i wouldnt lower my standards to reply to his posts

i questioned his posts.sure he is only posting to get a reaction

Rev. BlueJeans

I've no attitude, but you're not getting my point at all.

You think the bones of 700 for a flat week is a sustainable income in an unskilled, non trade occupation?

Did you think they were going to build houses and knock em out for 300 large forever?

My point stands that the likes of your good self should be supported by training and incentivised to get off the welfare when an opportunity presents itself. Would you disagree with that?

wicklaman83

But it is a skilled occupation.i beleive it comes under skilled labourer or some name like that.

What do you think i should train in.As i said I've already got carpentry,teleporter,banksman and tower crane.not qualifications that you pick off the side of the road

Rev. BlueJeans

I'm not going to tell you what to do.

I will tell you this though. Building is in the toilet, and construction based qualifications are ten a penny, as if you didn't know. I'd be looking at other options. You sure as hell won't be making that kind of money driving cranes again, not in spending terms anyway.

People should be looking to (and advised to) diversify and move into other areas.

Seems quite simple to me, but making such changes is a matter for the individual. These things always run in cycles, and things will pick up.

baaaa

darren254 wrote: »

and you know the ins and outs of a tower crane do you.its not just sitting on your arse looking at the view.no im not kidding you and no you dont leave it at that.i lost my job,looked for a week then joined the dole and i'm still looking.i dont want to be on the dole as much as the next person so hows abouts you lose the attitude

Crane driving is easy,you pussies only had to work 70+ hours a week with the knowledge that lives rest in your hands and brains.
Not like my job,I spend 38 hours a week sitting behind my computer doin accounts,now that's skilled work.
I just can't for the life of me figure out why you earned twice as much as me?Was it cause you did 30+ hours overtime a week?Or was it danger and stress money?Or am I dumb?

K-9

baaaa wrote: »

Crane driving is easy,you pussies only had to work 70+ hours a week with the knowledge that lives rest in your hands and brains.
Not like my job,I spend 38 hours a week sitting behind my computer doin accounts,now that's skilled work.
I just can't for the life of me figure out why you earned twice as much as me?Was it cause you did 30+ hours overtime a week?Or was it danger and stress money?Or am I dumb?

I don't want to do this as its a Social Welfare thread, but Unions and Labour Court agreements.

baaaa

K-9 wrote: »

I don't want to do this as its a Social Welfare thread, but Unions and Labour Court agreements.

I think you're misrepresenting what happened.To everybody who wonders why construction workers seemed to be getting such high wages allow me explain.
They worked twice as hard as anyone else.
70 hours a week,6 days a week is a world of difference from 39 hours,5 days a week.
Most office workers(through no fault of their own) can't really get this as they equate a days work to sitting in a comfortable warm environment,on site it's different.
You can be soaking wet and freezing cold from 6am till 8 pm.Medical bills and food bills are totally different from office work.Work is by the week or month,job security is never envisaged so you take every hour going,hence the huge overtime done.Construction workers were never on a crazy hourily rate,they just worked crazy illegal amounts of overtime.

K-9

baaaa wrote: »

I think you're misrepresenting what happened.To everybody who wonders why construction workers seemed to be getting such high wages allow me explain.
They worked twice as hard as anyone else.
70 hours a week,6 days a week is a world of difference from 39 hours,5 days a week.
Most office workers(through no fault of their own) can't really get this as they equate a days work to sitting in a comfortable warm environment,on site it's different.
You can be soaking wet and freezing cold from 6am till 8 pm.Medical bills and food bills are totally different from office work.Work is by the week or month,job security is never envisaged so you take every hour going,hence the huge overtime done.Construction workers were never on a crazy hourily rate,they just worked crazy illegal amounts of overtime.

Maybe?

I doubt the Labour Court endorsed 70 hour weeks.

Overtime would be paid yes? Extra and above. Or should have been?

Rev. BlueJeans

I have no doubt that these guys worked their arses off, and at the lower end of the skills chain, spent just as hard.

However, breaking it down to 39 hours, a flat rate of almost 700 for semi or non skilled work was ludicrous, and I don't think many of these people realise that yet.

I have a close relation, a plasterer (not even qualified through the proper channels) who was , an exception I freely admit, working three day weeks through the boom. He did that because he could afford to, because the money these guys were getting because of demand was so high-that and he was seldom able to make a Monday anyway.

All cash in the laimh, and then he wonders why he can't get the full rate of jobseekers allowance/benefit (I'm not sure which one applies-sorry).

This is an anecdotal exception, I know, but many of these people believe they are worth 2 or 300 a day, and the fact that they are not still hasn't sunk in in many cases.

Viktor

It's hilarious to see clowns raging at the less fortunate for taking a fraction of their money while ignoring the fact that most of their tax money goes to pay for pointless beauracracy and exorbitant salaries and bonuses for politicians and bankers who themselves avoid paying as much tax as possible. Keep on raging at the 2c you have to pay in charity to someone who probably lost their job due to the problems causes BY those politicians and bankers while they buy their 3rd €2m dublin mansion.