Over 250 NUIM Students DELIVER A Petition Against 'Professor' Ahern

PrivateEye

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1202/breaking63.htm

^Fantastic article. Very good research.

http://www.newstalk.ie/uncategorized/nui-maynooth-say-no-to-bertie/

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1202/maynooth.html

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/94996

clikityclak

Good stuff today and solidarity from some of the student body was great to see. Nice mention by the Irish times too- well rounded article...

PrivateEye

I see a boardsie on facespace saying they could hear us in Pugin Hall!?

Anyone hear me give it loads on George Hook?

banquo

Would love to have been able to go

Well done all!

Kiwi_knock

Went along today as an observer and have to say I was impressed by the numbers and the conduct of the supporters. Well done to all those involved

TheeItcha

Today was an excellent day for student democracy and student activism. As for the conduct of those involved even our harshest critics can only praise use for such good conduct. What I was disapointed in is that Prf. Hughes would not face his own students to recieve the petition from them.

Seren_

Totally agree with what everyone else has said It was great to see so many people (both students and staff - seen a few of my lecturers out) joining together about something that will have an affect on the university. Especially seeing as a lot of students (myself included a lot of the time, I must admit) just don't seem to give a damn about what's happening to the place.

PrivateEye

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Went along today as an observer and have to say I was impressed by the numbers and the conduct of the supporters. Well done to all those involved

This comment made my day.

While obviously I'm wearing my FEE cap, I have to tip it in the direction of Labour and everyone else who helped get the numbers out today. To the other people in FEE, I've never been prouder of you all, the way everyone organised today and behaved today was fantastic.

MORE IMPORTANTLY than us, Labour, or the other lefty groups- a huge thank you to the individual students who put the faith in us to come out today.

Going to any kind of 'demo' can be daunting if you're not one of us lefty trainspotters. It means an awful lot.

Everything I've heard, from the media or otherwise, has been positive. The way today was organised by ordinary students outside the Union etc. meant it was extra-brave of people to put the faith in a grassroots demonstration, but they did! My apologies for the endless lecture addresses

"All in all you're just a-nother prick in the Dail"

Kiwi_knock

Glad I made our day

Once again congrats for a well organised and I believe successful protest. I could see that the organisers were genuinely shocked by the high level of turnout, and the lack of press exposure and the disapointment at the presidents office did not seem to dampen anyone's spirits. Well done for managing to keep the protest controlled but also effective at the same time. A lot of planning obviously went into it and you did well to cope with the high turnout.

I do however see one big problem with the petition and subsequent march, it was portrayed as too much of a Leftists protest. Too many people were equating the protest with that of a Left wing protest, while in fact in was a protest that was meant to incorporate the entire student body. I heard too many people tell me that they were not getting involved in the protest because they did not want to be associated with the Left wing groups. I think this was a great shame because so many more could have contributed to this protest while retaining their individual ideologies and views. I feel that too many people on campus refused to take part because they did not want to be accused of having Leftist sympathies. A real shame.

And finally, I am studying Law in first year and too my bemusement never once was the petition passed around my class. I was shocked seeing as this protest had so much to do with the department we are studying in. I assumed someone would step up and say that first year law is opposed to Bertie, but we heard nothing. I do not know if this is a failing of our class reps or simply that no one really feels passionate about the issue.

PrivateEye

Thanks for the feedback!

I'll try address the two main points.

We've addressed the first point now in a letter sent to the college paper
that stated the protest was not one that can be tied down to a single ideology or 'the left', but a mass-showing of anger by the student body. However, it was 'the left' that built for the day. You could well be right on that front, that it is something off putting to some, yet I don't think we should water down our politics, or even lie to people about them to increase attendance. We've tried to wear our politics on our sleeves.(Wouldn't we want to! Our policy paper states we stand for "democratic control of the colleges by students and staff" :pac:)

I had several friends there today who would not be left-wing but came along. I think if a demo is called by a left-wing group it will be fairly obvious thats the case, regardless of how much they try (like we did today), to keep it free of political group slogans etc.

I would hope we were not so far left in peoples minds they wouldn't attend because of it. I think the turnout today was bloody fantastic and much as I'd like to believe it, I dont think there's 300 people with the same social and political agenda as me hanging around outside the JH1 at 2PM on a Wednesday because they showed up on our protest!

We decided NOT to bring banners today (and asked other groups not to either, LY, Socialist Party, Sinn Fein and others were in attendance today without banners) as we felt it would be off-putting to some students, and we thought today should be about the 1,100andsomething people that signed the petition, and not our campaign. I think people appreciated the fact they didn't get a FEE sign up form shoved in their face at the end.

This is where one has to remember this wasn't an "official" protest, but one called originally by a left protest group. If it was a Union protest say, I think you're right on people not thinking it would be such a 'left' event. I can promise we really made an effort to keep the protest as cliche-free and bannerless as possible.

And finally, I am studying Law in first year and too my bemusement never once was the petition passed around my class. I

Hmmmm, now that is unfortunate. Personally, sorry to hear that. I tried to hit as many non-traditional Arts types as I could (Callan for one!) but sadly I had a feeling this would happen. We had a group of maybe two dozen people max collecting signatures (ranging from 10 to 100 depending on the person!).

Maybe it was a fear of confronting the lecturer! In most classes, they were right on board about it. We should have engaged more with B&L students during the campaign, their opposition would speak volumes.

Kiwi_knock

I have to agree that there was no political agendas being forced upon anyone today. I was expecting to be asked what my political leanings were, and as you said being handed a sign up forms for future meetings. In fact it was nothing like that, and thats why I think it was a shame that people did not turn up due to this fact. People believing that FEE and Labour Youth were using today as some sort of recruiting drive.
I am not saying either that you should hide your ideology, your free to practice and highlight it. I was surprised that afterall it was a Left Wing protest that there was no banners from FEE or Labour Youth. I think you were validly entitlled to bring them but the fact you did not I think brought you more respect from the Student body as a whole. You showed that not only were you representing your groups and organisations but also the student body.

PrivateEye

http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/students-protest-ahern-professorship-436733.html

Quite sure I didn't sign the statement with my name, I presume they added it after the George Hook business went so well. Horray for Special Branch following me to lectures :pac:

I did not "spearhead" the campaign, I took part in it.

leopoldbloom

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

You showed that not only were you representing your groups and organisations but also the student body.

This was the intent all along. Although we (LY) supported the protest as much as we could at no point did we want it to end up as a lefty party. Much less that it would become a SWP / FEE / LY / CPI / WSM or anyone else event.

Two things stand out to me as an activist about this protest that make me swell with pride in NUI Maynooth:

1) Completely Peaceful. we did what we said we would, did it and left (and didn't walk on the grass). The Garda hiding around the corner looked slightly disappointed when we dispersed, and Brendan Ashe went so far as to thank me for that.

2) No single group dominated. I had friends there who were members of non-left groups and members of no group whatsoever. All of us, 200 ish, marched together as a single unified student body, without partisan bias or conflict and made our point loudly and clearly.

As I said earlier, today was the proudest by far of my five years in Maynooth.

Much Love

banquo

"FEE spokesman Donal Fallon spearheaded the NUI Maynooth campaign and attacked the appointment of Mr Ahern over his stewardship of the economy and investigation by the planning tribunal.

He said 250 people marched on President Professor John Hughes’ office to deliver the petition.

“If hundreds of students will show up merely to hand in a petition, how many will protest Bertie’s physical presence here?” he said.

Mr Fallon added: “Our campus is not a place for Fianna Fáil photoshoots, it is an academic institution."

Never prouder.

leopoldbloom

banquo wrote: »

“If hundreds of students will show up merely to hand in a petition, how many will protest Bertie’s physical presence here?” he said.

That's from your indymedia post right?

banquo wrote: »

Never prouder

+1

PrivateEye

^ That annoys me loads to be honest!


My Mam was like "Eh...theres a website here claiming it was all your fault"
"Ah ma, Its only boards.i....wait wha?"

leopoldbloom, +1.

Cpt Beefheart

I'm not part of any group but I joined in today as I strongly disapprove of this appointment. To be honest I would have been uncomfortable marching behind a banner and might have changed my mind. I'm sure I'm not alone in that. Well done, you worked hard at this.

PrivateEye

Mr.Bloom (I cant tell which of the Labour lads you are!), yep. It seems they've taken bits and pieces from the George Hook interview and the Indymedia write up.

I think TheeItcha is the lucky man doing Spin 103.8 in the morning, good luck. Loads of political Beyonce fans cant wait to hear our news.

Ostrom

I missed everything, what was the George Hook thing about?

Kiwi_knock

As I said earlier I only went along as an observer but I got swept along by the euphoria and the feeling of standing up to an injustice. A memory of Maynooth I will look back on in the future and feel proud that I took part and fought against this ludicrious appointment.

A very proud day to all those who took part in the march but also who signed the petition. We proved we could unite as one

PrivateEye

I think we can take something positive away from the feedback here folks, so thanks for it. We brought our banners out onto the picket lines on the 24th, but felt today there was no need to. It was great Labour and the others did the same, today looked all the more powerful for the fact nobody was carrying anything but a backpack.


I ,however, had my woeful 1983 megaphone.

I missed everything, what was the George Hook thing about?

I was interviewed by George Hook on his Programme. I love him loads so I thought it was fantastic. One of the texts said "I hope the students keep the parasite out!"

Kiwi_knock

The interview with Hook is not up on News talk website yet, have to wait till tomorrow to hear, it sounds like it was a good interview though

PrivateEye

Like the questions were almost nice enough to be what we wanted:

1) Why?
2) What about the North?
3) Where from here?

1) Still a T.D, personal record, huge questions, massive cutbacks blah blah

2) We dont deny his contribution. These are not merely 'guest lectures', with his track record the man does not deserve an Honorary Adjunct Professorship blah blah.

3)Build solid links with staff to fight not only this, but also further cutbacks blah blah.

Joe1919

Guys, you're blowing your own trumpets. 1200 signatures out of 8,000 or so. 250 students in demo. About 3%. Pathetic. I was at a lecture today (yesterday) and some guys rudely came in and interrupted looking for signatures. They left a sheet. No one signed. I also believe the students union have nothing to do with this but you can please confirm.
Is this a personal campaign? If it is, it a shame.
Whats the issue here? Be honest. If its cutbacks it should be directed at minister of education? Who do these self elected demostrators represent.? They dont have a majority. They dont represent me or many other students. I presume if this was a genuine protest about student cutbacks, the student union would be involved.
Let me know about this. Perhaps I am wrong.

banquo

1. 8,000 students, not all full-time. Some are only here 2 hours a week.

2. Not everyone knew about the petition. Out of those that did know, not everyone agreed (fair enough). When the petition was out, it did enormously well. But because of the petitioners' academic commitments, human requirements to eat, et al, they couldn't campaign for it that much. 1,200 signatures is about 15% of the college, which isn't bad for a day's work. That's more than vote annually in the SU elections.

3. Demo was short notice; lots of students are shy and don't like taking part in a march; students have, you know, stuff to do and lectures to go to.

I still think getting over 1,000 signatures and 4x the number of students who picketed last week to demo is pretty good.

4. Yup, the SU has taken a 'neutral' stance on this (let's not start that, please? Just let it be for now) and had no official involvement. You may or may not read about it in the SU magazine, The Print.

banquo

Joe1919 wrote: »

Guys, you're blowing your own trumpets. 1200 signatures out of 8,000 or so. 250 students in demo. About 3%. Pathetic. I was at a lecture today (yesterday) and some guys rudely came in and interrupted looking for signatures. They left a sheet. No one signed. I also believe the students union have nothing to do with this but you can please confirm.
Is this a personal campaign? If it is, it a shame.

(Is what post originally said, hence my reply)

I presume if this was a genuine protest about student cutbacks, the student union would be involved.
Let me know about this. Perhaps I am wrong.

Heh. Funny guy

But in all fairness, and without antagonism, this was more than anything a protest at the cheek of having someone who dropped out of college and (a lot of people think) was partly responsible for the situation we're in now re: cutbacks, etc. Some don't want him to come, so we petitioned and protested.

Joe1919

I was asked to sign twice and refused. The problem that I have is that this group is undemocratic i.e. they do not have even near a majority. They also have a democratic students union to represent them. People would have signed if they were passionate and interested.

3% in the demo...it speaks for itself.

PrivateEye

Guys, you're blowing your own trumpets. 1200 signatures out of 8,000 or so. 250 students in demo. About 3%. Pathetic.

Yeah no you're spot on. The front of The Irish Times and nationwide media attention is pathetic ....and with all 8,000 people hanging around the one Arts block we should have got them all in an hour :rolleyes:

It wasn't a demo. It was the delivery of the petition. Due to the grassroots nature of the petition gathering, we decided to poster and ask if anyone wanted to deliver it with us (read the posters- no mention of a demonstration)

If 250+ people come out to deliver a petition, lets wait and see shall we?
We might have a Bertie demo yet

Who do these self elected demostrators represent?

We can elect ourselves to protest now? Its not Zimbabwe, people are allowed start petitions. 1,200 people is FAR more than any club or society can claim, its far more than anyone was elected to the Union on, its a ****load of names and everyone knows it (The media know it too, try google)

1,200 students and around 50 members of staff (36 on the letter of protest + new signatures on our petition) is probably the largest campaign on campus yet.

If its cutbacks it should be directed at minister of education?

If they make Batt O' Keefe TD an Honorary Adjunct Professor, then it would be about him. The fact is a member of the Fianna Fail party, with a terrible political record (and a man who has and will vote for education cuts) has been made a member of STAFF at NUI Maynooth. If you can't find the irony there, and see the link with Fianna Fail educatio cutbacks, it's not worth trying to explain.

They dont represent me or many other students

...except the ones who signed the petition?

I presume if this was a genuine protest about student cutbacks, the student union would be involved.

Welcome to NUI Maynooth, please take a seat over there and we'll be with you in a moment, for now enjoy your new membership pack.

Joe1919

TheeItcha wrote: »

Today was an excellent day for student democracy and student activism. As for the conduct of those involved even our harshest critics can only praise use for such good conduct. What I was disapointed in is that Prf. Hughes would not face his own students to recieve the petition from them.

Since when was 1200 signatures out of 8000 a great day for democracy?

PrivateEye

Joe is epic troll. Run along to the SU and sign the canteen petition there, you might still get the free hoody for the first 50.

banquo

About 8,000 students can vote in the SU elections every year. We have about 2,000 first years (last estimate I heard, open to correction)

In this year's first year rep election, 97 people vote. 97 out of 2,000. That is 1.13%.

1,1316 voted in this last year's full SU elections. That's about 15%. And the bulk of those are randomers who make their way to the voting booth still chewing on the Jelly Babies they've been bribed with on the day. 250 is pretty good for Maynooth, sad as it may seem. Even more so when you take into account the circumstances (nobody wants to get in trouble, or look like a fool off marching somewhere)

Also, there's no information about this or anything like this because the SU has no official outlet for it except the monthly magazine, which in turn means no advance warning. It's literally a case of 'tell your friends to come at this time tomorrow'.

As for the SU: I have good friends in the SU, but 6 months in and with a budget of e10,000 they still haven't updated the ''website'', put up those YouTube videos they promised, fixed the printing in the library, published a single poem, essay or story from the Literary and Debating society, put up those LCD TVs around campus to broadcast clubs and socs events like they said they would (possibly the worst idea I've ever heard, ever), or pretty much anything you'll find in any of the candidates' manifestos.

I'm not slamming them - expectations were low from the beginning - I'm just saying that them organising some kind of protest, demo, leafleting, or coherent stance on anything is not to be expected.

PrivateEye wrote:

Run along to the SU and sign the canteen petition there, you might still get the free hoody for the first 50.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I'm actually lolling.

Joe1919

PrivateEye wrote: »

Joe is epic troll. Run along to the SU and sign the canteen petition there, you might still get the free hoody for the first 50.

banquo wrote: »

(Is what post originally said, hence my reply)

Heh. Funny guy
.

Is a shame you have to resort to personal insult.

PrivateEye

250 students and 20+ members of academic staff delivering a petition that the Student Union had no stance on = fantastic. That was a bloody pre-protest. It was as democratic as possible: people were given the option of DELIVERING a petition they signed. I've signed a few petitions in my time, I never felt passionate enough to go deliver one.

As one sexy gentleman is quoted as saying on The Irish Independent website "If over 200 students will come out to deliver a petition, how many will protest Berties physical presence on campus?"

As for the paper: Nobody will give a crap for Ógra Fianna Fail giving out about today (as is apparently likely), it will just wind people up more and add to the campaign against the appointment me thinks. "We used to be an active branch of that party that everyone hates, and you're all wrong to protest against that guy who had to resign in shame because he couldn't even give coherent evidence to a Tribunal you all paid for"

1,1316 voted in this last year's full SU elections.

WINRAWR

banquo

Joe1919 wrote: »

Since when was 1200 signatures out of 8000 a great day for democracy?

Never. It's always a pitiful day for democracy. But 1,200 people saying 'yes' to anything is a milestone in the history of student democracy here. And I'm glad for it.

If you don't agree with the intent of the petition, that's fine. I honestly respect you for it. But I don't know any students here in NUIM that have done more for the free education and prosperity of total strangers than PrivateEye and his friends. So you gotta respect them too, at least a little bit.

PrivateEye

...and his friends

People would have signed if they were passionate and interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR6FUlHthCw

Yeah no, when nobody is interested in something they put it on the front of The Irish Times and on telly. You get 1,000 signatures by asking people if they want to sign it. In this case, the VAST majority of people asked were more than happy to. Funny that.

banquo

You're so loving it Don't blame you!

PrivateEye

I'm only up because I'm (trying to) write an essay, but 2.56AM is the worst time ever to troll people.

**My gaff phone rang today and it was George Hook. So yep, I am kind of loving it.
Read The Indepenent article? Lazy journalism= "IT WAS ALL PRIVATEEYES FAULT!!!11"

Joe1919

Guys, Im not a fianna fail or student union supporter or anything like that. It just when seeing the way some of the petition seekers were behaving, it sort of put me off. And then the claim to be democratic......
And you can read the tone and insults......not happy at my criticism.

Why not use the democratic mechanism that already in place i.e. students union.
Why did'nt the 250 or so have voted instead of march?

Teabag!

Joe1919 wrote: »

Why not use the democratic mechanism that already in place i.e. students union.
Why did'nt the 250 or so have voted instead of march?

We did vote....






with our feet!


As for the SU surely you jest?????

Kiwi_knock

Put it in perspective. There was no way that the petitions could have been seen by 9,000 students if it was even seen by half that number it was a miracle. And at the march close to 25% of those who signed the petition turned up only just to hand in the petition. It was not a demonstration at all, it was just a march that went peacefully. It took all of 20 mins and most importantly we kept off the grass at the end.

As for the Student Union, me as a 1st year can already see that it is a lot of words but not very much action. More concerned with providing entertainment than answering the needs of so many students. And if you think the protest was undemocratic just look at the SU. The majority of first year do not know we have a first year rep let alone that there was elections for it.

LeixlipRed

I was away for the weekend and I totally missed out on the build up to this and hence wasn't there Well done to all!

PrivateEye

Nice piece in The Irish Indo, just finished up an interview with Kildare FM and Spin 103.8 were on earlier too. I twitter'd/googled it too. I'm sorry if some people didn't see the petition (People actually calling us lazy on another forum!!!) but we're only human, with limited resources in terms of people and time.

To match, and even beat, the number of students who voted in last years elections is good I think, as I'd consider that a respectable number that can have some say.

folan

As a past student, I would like to thank you for taking this action.

hypersquirrel

I'm actually in two minds about the Bertie thing but I would still like to congratulate you for reviving student activism.

At the same time though I don't take the number of any petition like that seriously. I would suggest that if I went around with a petition asking to let Bertie speak then I would probably have a large number of the same names. Fact is that there are always a large number who sign purely because it makes them feel important and they'd sign their soul way if you put apiece of paper in front of them.

I'm a little curious though and just a genuine question. If they invited him to give a number of talks without giving him the honorary title would you still be protesting.

tootyflutty

I know myself and all my freidns that I got to sign the petition were extremly willing to do so, and I know that there were more that didn't get a chance to sign but were very in favour of it. Well done everyone on yesterday, was a great thing to see and be somewhat a part of.

On the otherhand, saw the offiicial car and garda escort earlier as I walked by Pudgin...:mad:

irish_goat

My main (and almost only) gripe is at the bottom of all this is people's education. He's here to to give lectures to improve fellow student's degrees. We can argue about education cuts, his 'honourary professor' title and the cost of replacing him all day but at the end of the day this is messing around with someone else's education.

Well done on your campaign, I'm sure making the front page of the Times and all the other media coverage has been a proud moment for you all but if these lectures are cancelled and student's degrees suffer because of it you have nothing to be proud of.

banquo

@tooty: wait, did you see bertie today?

PrivateEye

Was in the car, no biggie smalls.

--

I'm saying this to people: lets be honest, we're not going to hear when Bertie Ahern T.D is on campus, so what we did yesterday may be as far as we get in this campaign publicity wise. Still, its possible something will leak - a lot of staff are very angry, so who knows.

I'm actually in two minds about the Bertie thing but I would still like to congratulate you for reviving student activism.

NUIM is really buzzing at the minute with student stuff, its great to see. On November 24th too, NUIM put in the best showing anywhere in Ireland in terms of student pickets, with enough students for two groups of them to even take seperate gates!

Its an exciting time on campus.

If they invited him to give a number of talks without giving him the honorary title would you still be protesting.

We've been in close contact with a fair few staff members recently and this issue has come up: The best angle for 'the campaign' , broad as it is, would be to focus on the Honorary Adjunct Professorship.

We would not come out on the streets in opposition then if t he Adjunct Professorship was dropped (I dont think t hey will, that would be not alone unprecedented but a huge embarrasment)

Mega lols at the thing in the Herald/Metro. A great written piece, but he rang me for a statement and I sent it on (with no name on it, from FEE)- then I see my name all over the paper. Ma was not impressed.

---

The number of people that popped up on Facebook Chat/Mailed FEE about the cars outside Pugin is a GREAT sign too. I actually think many (not all obviously) of the people who signed the petition will get some boost out of seeing it on the front of The Irish Times/on telly etc. and keep an eye out.

banquo

I think that word will get out quickly enough about bertie when he does come. Facebook, texts etc. We should get a storage room on campus to keep all the banners in case of emergency.

tootyflutty

banquo wrote: »

@tooty: wait, did you see bertie today?

No I had just left a music lesson, and was walking by, there was an official merc, with Irish flags and all, and two garda cars with many gaurds and some suited men milling around, obviously waiting for someone important to exit Pudgin..

Joe1919

The Irish Examiner has an interesting view on this.
I hope the students are not been used by well paid academics?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/ryle-dwyer/did-highly-paid-academics-object-because-bertie-would-do-it-for-free-106571.html