Over 250 NUIM Students DELIVER A Petition Against 'Professor' Ahern

Joe1919

PrivateEye wrote: »

Joe is epic troll. Run along to the SU and sign the canteen petition there, you might still get the free hoody for the first 50.

banquo wrote: »

(Is what post originally said, hence my reply)

Heh. Funny guy
.

Is a shame you have to resort to personal insult.

PrivateEye

250 students and 20+ members of academic staff delivering a petition that the Student Union had no stance on = fantastic. That was a bloody pre-protest. It was as democratic as possible: people were given the option of DELIVERING a petition they signed. I've signed a few petitions in my time, I never felt passionate enough to go deliver one.

As one sexy gentleman is quoted as saying on The Irish Independent website "If over 200 students will come out to deliver a petition, how many will protest Berties physical presence on campus?"

As for the paper: Nobody will give a crap for Ógra Fianna Fail giving out about today (as is apparently likely), it will just wind people up more and add to the campaign against the appointment me thinks. "We used to be an active branch of that party that everyone hates, and you're all wrong to protest against that guy who had to resign in shame because he couldn't even give coherent evidence to a Tribunal you all paid for"

1,1316 voted in this last year's full SU elections.

WINRAWR

banquo

Joe1919 wrote: »

Since when was 1200 signatures out of 8000 a great day for democracy?

Never. It's always a pitiful day for democracy. But 1,200 people saying 'yes' to anything is a milestone in the history of student democracy here. And I'm glad for it.

If you don't agree with the intent of the petition, that's fine. I honestly respect you for it. But I don't know any students here in NUIM that have done more for the free education and prosperity of total strangers than PrivateEye and his friends. So you gotta respect them too, at least a little bit.

PrivateEye

...and his friends

People would have signed if they were passionate and interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR6FUlHthCw

Yeah no, when nobody is interested in something they put it on the front of The Irish Times and on telly. You get 1,000 signatures by asking people if they want to sign it. In this case, the VAST majority of people asked were more than happy to. Funny that.

banquo

You're so loving it Don't blame you!

PrivateEye

I'm only up because I'm (trying to) write an essay, but 2.56AM is the worst time ever to troll people.

**My gaff phone rang today and it was George Hook. So yep, I am kind of loving it.
Read The Indepenent article? Lazy journalism= "IT WAS ALL PRIVATEEYES FAULT!!!11"

Joe1919

Guys, Im not a fianna fail or student union supporter or anything like that. It just when seeing the way some of the petition seekers were behaving, it sort of put me off. And then the claim to be democratic......
And you can read the tone and insults......not happy at my criticism.

Why not use the democratic mechanism that already in place i.e. students union.
Why did'nt the 250 or so have voted instead of march?

Teabag!

Joe1919 wrote: »

Why not use the democratic mechanism that already in place i.e. students union.
Why did'nt the 250 or so have voted instead of march?

We did vote....






with our feet!


As for the SU surely you jest?????

Kiwi_knock

Put it in perspective. There was no way that the petitions could have been seen by 9,000 students if it was even seen by half that number it was a miracle. And at the march close to 25% of those who signed the petition turned up only just to hand in the petition. It was not a demonstration at all, it was just a march that went peacefully. It took all of 20 mins and most importantly we kept off the grass at the end.

As for the Student Union, me as a 1st year can already see that it is a lot of words but not very much action. More concerned with providing entertainment than answering the needs of so many students. And if you think the protest was undemocratic just look at the SU. The majority of first year do not know we have a first year rep let alone that there was elections for it.

LeixlipRed

I was away for the weekend and I totally missed out on the build up to this and hence wasn't there Well done to all!

PrivateEye

Nice piece in The Irish Indo, just finished up an interview with Kildare FM and Spin 103.8 were on earlier too. I twitter'd/googled it too. I'm sorry if some people didn't see the petition (People actually calling us lazy on another forum!!!) but we're only human, with limited resources in terms of people and time.

To match, and even beat, the number of students who voted in last years elections is good I think, as I'd consider that a respectable number that can have some say.

folan

As a past student, I would like to thank you for taking this action.

hypersquirrel

I'm actually in two minds about the Bertie thing but I would still like to congratulate you for reviving student activism.

At the same time though I don't take the number of any petition like that seriously. I would suggest that if I went around with a petition asking to let Bertie speak then I would probably have a large number of the same names. Fact is that there are always a large number who sign purely because it makes them feel important and they'd sign their soul way if you put apiece of paper in front of them.

I'm a little curious though and just a genuine question. If they invited him to give a number of talks without giving him the honorary title would you still be protesting.

tootyflutty

I know myself and all my freidns that I got to sign the petition were extremly willing to do so, and I know that there were more that didn't get a chance to sign but were very in favour of it. Well done everyone on yesterday, was a great thing to see and be somewhat a part of.

On the otherhand, saw the offiicial car and garda escort earlier as I walked by Pudgin...:mad:

irish_goat

My main (and almost only) gripe is at the bottom of all this is people's education. He's here to to give lectures to improve fellow student's degrees. We can argue about education cuts, his 'honourary professor' title and the cost of replacing him all day but at the end of the day this is messing around with someone else's education.

Well done on your campaign, I'm sure making the front page of the Times and all the other media coverage has been a proud moment for you all but if these lectures are cancelled and student's degrees suffer because of it you have nothing to be proud of.

banquo

@tooty: wait, did you see bertie today?

PrivateEye

Was in the car, no biggie smalls.

--

I'm saying this to people: lets be honest, we're not going to hear when Bertie Ahern T.D is on campus, so what we did yesterday may be as far as we get in this campaign publicity wise. Still, its possible something will leak - a lot of staff are very angry, so who knows.

I'm actually in two minds about the Bertie thing but I would still like to congratulate you for reviving student activism.

NUIM is really buzzing at the minute with student stuff, its great to see. On November 24th too, NUIM put in the best showing anywhere in Ireland in terms of student pickets, with enough students for two groups of them to even take seperate gates!

Its an exciting time on campus.

If they invited him to give a number of talks without giving him the honorary title would you still be protesting.

We've been in close contact with a fair few staff members recently and this issue has come up: The best angle for 'the campaign' , broad as it is, would be to focus on the Honorary Adjunct Professorship.

We would not come out on the streets in opposition then if t he Adjunct Professorship was dropped (I dont think t hey will, that would be not alone unprecedented but a huge embarrasment)

Mega lols at the thing in the Herald/Metro. A great written piece, but he rang me for a statement and I sent it on (with no name on it, from FEE)- then I see my name all over the paper. Ma was not impressed.

---

The number of people that popped up on Facebook Chat/Mailed FEE about the cars outside Pugin is a GREAT sign too. I actually think many (not all obviously) of the people who signed the petition will get some boost out of seeing it on the front of The Irish Times/on telly etc. and keep an eye out.

banquo

I think that word will get out quickly enough about bertie when he does come. Facebook, texts etc. We should get a storage room on campus to keep all the banners in case of emergency.

tootyflutty

banquo wrote: »

@tooty: wait, did you see bertie today?

No I had just left a music lesson, and was walking by, there was an official merc, with Irish flags and all, and two garda cars with many gaurds and some suited men milling around, obviously waiting for someone important to exit Pudgin..

Joe1919

The Irish Examiner has an interesting view on this.
I hope the students are not been used by well paid academics?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/ryle-dwyer/did-highly-paid-academics-object-because-bertie-would-do-it-for-free-106571.html

Effluo

Joe1919 wrote: »

The Irish Examiner has an interesting view on this.
I hope the students are not been used by well paid academics?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/ryle-dwyer/did-highly-paid-academics-object-because-bertie-would-do-it-for-free-106571.html

Not the greatest article in the world.
Pretty crap actually, it's quite long yet the title is the only original part.

He does have a point though.
I think he missed out on the irony of FEE's perceived involvement in the protest.

The College and students gain a great candidate for the job
The college gains huge publicity and relevant publicity too
If as a prospective student I thought there was a chance that I would be Lectured by the most successful Politician of my/our era by going to Maynooth, it would certainly be quite attractive.

And the College gets this for a piece of paper?

He already has an Honorary Doctorate from Queens, Belfast

Quote from the article
"Even John Taylor of the Ulster Unionist Party acknowledged that at the time. If he were to lecture on such matters in the US he could undoubtedly command massive fees."


Free education for everyone, but no educational opportunity for students of Conflict Intervention(cause we don't like the lecturer)

Also at this point could it be cleared up what the petition actually was for? Was it against his presence in the Uni or just his professorship?

Joe1919

Perhaps I am wrong here but one of the sad things that I think about this student protest is that 'it is not even a student's protest'. The academics seems to be pulling the strings here by using the students as cannon fodder to fight their battle for them.

I suppose I am angry and feel sad because I think the students are been manipulated and used and they don't realize it.

Effluo

Joe1919 wrote: »

Perhaps I am wrong here but one of the sad things that I think about this student protest is that 'it is not even a student's protest'. The academics seems to be pulling the strings here by using the students as cannon fodder to fight their battle for them.

I suppose I am angry and feel sad because I think the students are been manipulated and used and they don't realize it.

Now that could deffo be seen as trolling! lol

PrivateEye

Just to clarify on this 'lecturers/students' thing...

We started our campaign before the lecturers letter at the end of the last academic year (see image 1 below, notice the date - then read The Irish Times frontpage article from last week). The article in the Examiner actually seems to suggest they are "behind" the petition, which is a joke. We had the first 300/400 signatures before any staff even knew about it, at which point plenty of them signed it. The two iniatives are seperate, despite what The Irish Examiner (Who did a great job of copy-pasting The Irish Times, who made contact with us to establish the two 'protests' were seperate from one another)

We were on the picket lines on the 24th, the lecturers came out yesterday, there were IFUT Maynooth members were on the anti third level fees demo too.Sometimes, people can actually just support each other without anyone being cannon fodder.

The petition was against the awarding of an Honorary Adjunct Professorship to Bertie.



Front of The Northside People, Berties local paper- and long before the lecturers even put pen to paper.



Some of todays press I picked up along the way!
1) Herald AM 2) Irish Indo 3) The Metro 4)Liffey Champion (on FEE/Labour Youth solidarity pickets last week, and a bit on Bertie)

Radiowise we did Spin,George Hook,RTE,RnaG,Kildare FM,DCU FM,UTV Radio(?),most Dublin locals, and got news report time on Newstalk on others. Winrawr.

Joe1919

PrivateEye wrote: »

.....We were on the picket lines on the 24th, the lecturers came out yesterday, there were IFUT Maynooth members were on the anti third level fees demo too.Sometimes, people can actually just support each other without anyone being cannon fodder.
.

Well it looks as if the academics got in well ahead with their petition. (June 12)
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1126/1224259488850.html?via=rel

But the academics have everything to gain. The students will pay for this by their loss of freedom in having been deprived of the opportunity to be lectured by our former Taoiseacht.
What you are attempting to do is deprive the individual academic departments and students the opportunity to choose for themselves. It is an action against freedom.

Kiwi_knock

Joe fully justify how it is a protest against freedom, come on your making statements without backing them up

Joe1919

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Joe fully justify how it is a protest against freedom, come on your making statements without backing them up

Its a bad day for freedom when unelected groups try to control the selection of academic candidates and who is fit or not fit to lecture.
Most students are intelligent and can choose for themselves. I certainly find it tyrannical that a group such as yours would try to influence and censor who is fit to lecture at Maynooth.

Beau

I think your a legend PE, you stand up strongly for what you believe in and most importantly you DO something about it. Well done, I can only imagine you'll go far. Joe is the type of person I would typically try and stay away from, put you down for doing something and will only drag you down. He is entitled to his opinion and expressing it just as you and the 1,999 people are.

Personally, at first I was completely against this appointment but after reading goats, Effulos and Joe's argument I can see where they are coming from.

Kiwi_knock

Joe1919 wrote: »

Its a bad day for freedom when unelected groups try to control the selection of academic candidates and who is fit or not fit to lecture.
Most students are intelligent and can choose for themselves. I certainly find it tyrannical that a group such as yours would try to influence and censor who is fit to lecture at Maynooth.

Joe, I am not a member of FEE or Labour Youth, I only went along yesterday as a casual observer. I believe you are entitled to your opinion just as much as private eye is to his. It is his democractic right to free speech and I feel the way he has gone about it has been legitimate. No one has been forced into signing a petition. And how to you propose that these groups become elected, I do not understand this point to be honest. An explanation is needed for me to comprehend what you fully mean by this statement. The Student Union has chosen to take a Neutral stance on this, so do you Joe believe that because of their refusal all students should have followed their decision just because they were elected.

Effluo

Joe1919 wrote: »

Its a bad day for freedom when unelected groups try to control the selection of academic candidates and who is fit or not fit to lecture.
Most students are intelligent and can choose for themselves. I certainly find it tyrannical that a group such as yours would try to influence and censor who is fit to lecture at Maynooth.

Pffff
Your post is not relevant... All the protesters are saying is that they don't agree with him being given a Prof.

If they went with a slogan "Maynooth doesn't want Bertie" they'd be misrepresenting the people who signed the petition and I'm pretty sure they have not done that.

It would be way more of a problem if they were struck down for a protest. Everyone has a right to say whatever they think

The issue is "supposedly" not about him lecturing just the professorship, although I have a feeling that even if the offer of a Prof was taken away he'd still be lobbied when coming onto campus.

Anyway you post is quite contradictory considering you thinking about the rights of the student for education yet ignore the right of protest.