Paul McCartney in meat debate with the EU

henryporter

Apparently Mairead McGuinness is going head to head with Macca over meat production: See here for details (and a rather parochial provincial take...) http://www.dundalkdemocrat.ie/dundalknews/Beatles-star-Paul-McCartney-set.5874207.jp

i-digress

The save our soul/save our planet comparison is a leeetle simplistic methinks...

Breezer

To be fair to McGuinness, although I don't agree with her stance, she has a duty to support one of Ireland's biggest industries and her constituents' livelihoods.

Fair play to Macca for raising the issue at this level though.

smegmar

Wasn't that debate on today? So anyone know how it all turned out?

webshopper

If Paul McCartney was the truly concerned Environmentalist he claims he is, instead of just a vegan sausage seller, he would not have fathered 4 children.
You can't contribute to Global over-population AND be a concerned Environmentalist, unless you are a monumental hypocrite.

sweet-rasmus

:rolleyes:

Slaphead07

Breezer wrote: »

To be fair to McGuinness, although I don't agree with her stance, she has a duty to support one of Ireland's biggest industries and her constituents' livelihoods.

I think she's more concerned with her own livelihood.

"one of Ireland's biggest industries " is in reality a loss making sector propped up by subsidies and grants. If you or I had a business that couldn't turn a profit we'd have to shut it down and begin again. Farmers don't. I spent my schooldays being taught that Agriculture was the backbone of Ireland - of course I was taught by Christian Brothers who mainly came from that background. In fact Agriculture in Ireland is a parasitic virus unable to survive without external and national subvention. The sooner we rid ourselves of this romantic notion that Irish agriculture is worth bailing out the better.

Breezer

Slaphead07 wrote: »

I think she's more concerned with her own livelihood.

"one of Ireland's biggest industries " is in reality a loss making sector propped up by subsidies and grants. If you or I had a business that couldn't turn a profit we'd have to shut it down and begin again. Farmers don't. I spent my schooldays being taught that Agriculture was the backbone of Ireland - of course I was taught by Christian Brothers who mainly came from that background. In fact Agriculture in Ireland is a parasitic virus unable to survive without external and national subvention. The sooner we rid ourselves of this romantic notion that Irish agriculture is worth bailing out the better.

All fair points. On the other hand, do you really think it would be a good thing if, at the present time in particular, Irish agriculture was left to fall by the wayside, and thousands more people were forced either onto the Dole or into non-existant retraining programmes for non-existant jobs?

Neither McGuinness, nor any other politician, is likely to vote for this, ever. Call it looking out for her own livelihood, or call it looking out for her constituents. The two go together in our democratic system.

Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely love to see a vegetarian utopia where no animal was raised to be killed, but I'm just being pragmatic here.

Tar.Aldarion

webshopper wrote: »

If Paul McCartney was the truly concerned Environmentalist he claims he is, instead of just a vegan sausage seller, he would not have fathered 4 children.
You can't contribute to Global over-population AND be a concerned Environmentalist, unless you are a monumental hypocrite.

Actually I was questioning this myself recently and talked to a friend about it. I am not sure if it is indeed immoral for myself to have a child atm, when I can adopt one and save a life instead. We are talking about it

webshopper

Slaphead07 wrote: »

"one of Ireland's biggest industries " is in reality a loss making sector propped up by subsidies and grants. If you or I had a business that couldn't turn a profit we'd have to shut it down and begin again. Farmers don't. I spent my schooldays being taught that Agriculture was the backbone of Ireland - of course I was taught by Christian Brothers who mainly came from that background. In fact Agriculture in Ireland is a parasitic virus unable to survive without external and national subvention. The sooner we rid ourselves of this romantic notion that Irish agriculture is worth bailing out the better.

People forget so easily why grants and subsidies were introduced in agriculture in the first place. They were introduced to allow Irish farmers make a living in the face of unrestricted food imports into the country from places were the wages paid to local workers were a tiny fraction of the wages legally mandated by Irish law, and because Irish worker's rights were far superior.
Allow ANY Irish farmer import workers to employ at Brazilian, Ukranian or Kenyan wage rates, with the conditions prevaling in those countries, and they will all make a profit.
While you're at it let's be allowed import public sector workers from Romania at the going rates there.

Slaphead07

webshopper wrote: »

People forget so easily why grants and subsidies were introduced in agriculture in the first place.

It was because of the IFA lobby, not rashers produced by "Brazilian, Ukranian or Kenyan" workers

webshopper

Slaphead07 wrote: »

It was because of the IFA lobby, not rashers produced by "Brazilian, Ukranian or Kenyan" workers

If only the IFA were that powerful ! Imagine ! Being able to get the whole EEC to create a Common Agricultural Policy just because the half of Irish farmers that you spoke for wanted it !

IMHO I'd advise you to read up about the reasons why the C.A.P. was created and introduced EEC wide. Then you could reply from a basis of informed opinion.

Slaphead07

webshopper wrote: »

If only the IFA were that powerful ! Imagine ! Being able to get the whole EEC to create a Common Agricultural Policy just because the half of Irish farmers that you spoke for wanted it !

IMHO I'd advise you to read up about the reasons why the C.A.P. was created and introduced EEC wide. Then you could reply from a basis of informed opinion.

and yet the 'informed' can't tell us why we should support an unsustainable industry.

webshopper

Slaphead07 wrote: »

and yet the 'informed' can't tell us why we should support an unsustainable industry.

Farming is only unsustainable if you choose to force it to compete against 3rd world agri products on a cost alone basis, while forcing it to produce food to EU. standards with ALL the direct extra costs involved. ( Wage rates, Workers Health and Safety Regulations, Product Purity, Quality, Traceability, Higher fixed and Variable costs ) and indirect costs to the Environment ( Food miles )

eg Brazilian beef / Soya bean / Sugar cane - where 5000+ slave workers are forced, often at gunpoint, to hack down Amazon rainforest, so that EU supermarkets like Carrefour and TESCO don't have to pay Irish prices. Thankfully the IFA got this potentially diseased, antibiotic injected and hormoned beef banned.
or Kenyan vegetables and fruit - where producers sell to us at, for them, artificially high prices, while locals starve. ( Let 'em starve says Slaphead, - we need 30c a kilo onions so that I have money left for my pint at 300c )

Let's all abandon EU food security, and throw ourselves to the mercy of people like the Argentine President, who, on a whim, stopped overnight the export of one sixth of the worlds beef, and one tenth of it's grain, leaving customers to fend for themselves.

Slaphead07

webshopper wrote: »

( Let 'em starve says Slaphead, - we need 30c a kilo onions so that I have money left for my pint at 300c )

Please don't attribute imaginary quotes to me. Ever.

Slaphead07

and you have, despite dramatic and largey irrelevant arguments, still failed to justify the continued support of an Irish industry that cannot turn a profit without significant state/eu subvention.
There are crop Irish farmers could produce where they would not have to compete on teh price of imaginary onions but instead they continue to produce the old favourites. Maybe that's a tradition that has to be maintained too? Irish farming has become lazy, insular and a drain on the nation. Drop the rose tinted 'love of the land' nonsense and build factories that can show a profit while competing in a world market.

webshopper

Slaphead07 wrote: »

Please don't attribute imaginary quotes to me. Ever.

As well as getting correctly informed on things relating to the Geopolitical and external influences on the sustainability of Irish Agriculture, I'd respectfully suggest that you also enlighten yourself in understanding mild irony and intended sarcasm in replies.

Then you will be able to express a balanced opinion, from a truly educated stance, rather than come across as having failed to research anything other than that relating to your immediate opinion.

Take a good look at the WHOLE picture - then judge it.

sweet-rasmus

Best to let sleeping threads lie. Post in a different, relevant forum with your issues if you feel the need.

Thread closed.