Enough is enough Public & Private Sector Unite For Once!

Shea O'Meara

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

ah jasus this is getting blown out of proportion.

Are you Bertie?

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Aren't you sick of whats been going on? I am a FF voter myself and I am disgusted at what they've done and gotten away with.

I'm not trying to be rude, but seriously, people like you are the problem...if you are disenchanted with them, or simply concerned for the common good, please please stop voting for Fianna Fail.

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

I pretty much hate the way people on boards love to pick simple ideas to death.

Would you attend such an event yes or no.

No.

shoegirl

Much as I agree with the sentiment of not dividing public/private sector workers, lets not forget these gems:

There is no legal obligation on an employer to negotiate with a union on behalf of an employee member, unless previously agreed. This does not prevent a dispute about trade union recognition from being a lawful dispute.

See this
http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/1999/03/feature/ie9903135f.htm

"Employers, on the other hand, can be content that they have successfully seen off a statutory union recognition procedure. American high-technology companies, in particular, will be pleased that a voluntary code has been adopted and that their predominantly non-union status will remain unchallenged."

"the benefits of union representation may still accrue to employees, but without any compulsion on employers to concede union recognition."

"There is no legal right in Ireland for trade unions to be recognised for collective bargaining purposes, or to be consulted, other than under the Protection of Employment Act 1977, which provides that in the case of collective redundancies (which is defined in the Act) the employer must consult with the representatives of the employees "with a view to reaching an agreement"." [PS this is interpreted as individuals acting on behalf of colleagues]

"Multinationals are believed to have made it known that any revision to the current voluntary status of union recognition under Irish law and practice would imperil existing foreign direct investment and put future expansion in Ireland in serious jeopardy. The development agencies and government departments operating in the industrial relations field take these risks very seriously indeed, as does the Government."

"EMPLOYERS’ GROUP Ibec has warned that any move by the Government towards a system of mandatory trade union recognition would be unconstitutional and cost Ireland jobs."

When YOUR public sector union quangoes start a meaningful fight to put an end the two tier system, where Ireland is unique in Europe at giving employers the right to deny collective bargaining to workers, I will then consider supporting YOUR narrow little self interest groups that masquerade as trade unions.

You left us behind years ago in Partnership2000, how dare you look for our support now!

jmayo

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

...
Ireland has had a long tradition of standing together as one which is the basis of our Republic. Which at one point I was proud to be a part of. We have lost sight of ourselves over the past 15 years. We have let out governement and our Unions destroy our self worth and our national identity. We are all fighting eachother for the same reasons and the same end goals. STOP THIS NOW AND UNITE.

Bull rose tinted glasses stuff.
Anytime in our history when we had a revolution there were always plenty who looked after no.1 i.e. themselves and thus it was only with the advent of the likes of Collins who made sure that the revolters were immune from the usual greedy self interested ones.

In case you didn't know Pearse and Connolly were not supported by the vast majority of people, well at least not while they were alive. :rolleyes:

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

The time has come for us all to congregate upon the GPO, to stand as one and to have one voice that serves the common good of all our people. Let us not foget those who did the same in the past, Pearse, Connolly etc If it wasn't for these brave souls we would never have experienced 1st hand the greatest republic on earth.

Greatest republic ?
Don't make us laugh.

A republic where for years our young, politically unconnected and poor had to emigrate to foreign parts to find a decent living and send home money to raise the rest of their family at home.

A republic where the catholic church ruled, much as the protestant unionists had predicted.
A republic where for 60 odd years children were imprisoned in industrial schools, where they were raped and torturted by members of the catholic church, all the while the state condoned it by their tacit approval and failure to do anything, even when informed of the abuses.

This would be the republic where the government allowed the church walk away from it's responsibilities regarding the abuse they carried out on the innocent children in their care.
This would be the republic where the police force often went to the church when allegations were made about it's priests.

Ps I know it only offically became a republic in 1949 and thus the abuse was only carried out for parts of it's term within the republic.

This would be republic where one of our prime ministers was a theif accepting gifts from well connected rich businessmen, one of the highest ranking government ministers was proven to be in receipt of property for corrupt favours, where planning was hijacked to make rich developers richer.
Arepublic where the minister of finance didn't have a bank acocunt and claimed the wads of cash in his office were due to being lucky on the nags.

This would be the republic where young girls, who had been abused and raped, were forbidden from travelling to the UK becuase their church run country were too backward to allow them abort the spawn of their rapists.

This would be country where no one is responsible for anything, where a health service does nothing about the needless deaths becuase of misdiagnosis of cancer, where the old are left to die of dehydration and bedsores in nursing homes setup to make connnected developers and businessmen even richer.
This would be the country where a surgeon was allowed operate in a hospital continually needlessly removing the most precious thing a woman has, her womb.
This would be the republic where innocent children were killed by their father becuase the social services don't do weekends. :mad:
This would be a country where our Haemophilia suffereres were given death sentences by the state blood board.
Yet again did anyone ever pay for it, oh yes the innocent victims did.

FFS people who have your opinion about how special we are should take their heads out of their ars** and see what the country is really like.

b12mearse wrote: »

I'm with you. I was in Dublin yesterday and was shocked at the amount of foreigners working in the cities shops and restaurants.
Its time to send them home!
There are too many people on the doel and we continue to employ these people in our country.

Those foreigners came here because some of the people currently on the dole would not get off their ars** and go out and work.
Would you be of the same opinion that the Irish in USA, Canada, UK, Australia, etc etc should all fu** off home as well ?

Did any of your family ever emigrate ?

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

ah jasus this is getting blown out of proportion.

Aren't you sick of whats been going on? I am a FF voter myself and I am disgusted at what they've done and gotten away with.

The country is in the mess it is, becuase of people like YOU.
Did you vote for bertie in 2002, did you vote for bertie in 2007 ?

They have been doing this for years and getting away with it for years agin becuase of people like YOU.
For most of the history of this state your party have been in power, so the great list of achievements above are down to them.

No wonder you have such a rosey view of our great republic :rolleyes:
I usually find ffers do think things are much better than they really are since a lot of them have usually benefited in some way from their connection to the party. :rolleyes:

irish_bob

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

ah jasus this is getting blown out of proportion.

Aren't you sick of whats been going on? I am a FF voter myself and I am disgusted at what they've done and gotten away with.

The real point is showing the country that we're all one as workers and we all want equality and justice.

I pretty much hate the way people on boards love to pick simple ideas to death.

Would you attend such an event yes or no. perhaps a poll would've been easier than opening up a can of worms lol

you lost my support the second you mentioned that awfull word EQUALITY

dvpower

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

I pretty much hate the way people on boards love to pick simple ideas to death.

I hate when people don't agree with me too.

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Would you attend such an event yes or no. perhaps a poll would've been easier than opening up a can of worms lol

Count me out.

NOGMaxpower

shoegirl wrote: »

Much as I agree with the sentiment of not dividing public/private sector workers, lets not forget these gems:

There is no legal obligation on an employer to negotiate with a union on behalf of an employee member, unless previously agreed. This does not prevent a dispute about trade union recognition from being a lawful dispute.

See this
http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/1999/03/feature/ie9903135f.htm

"Employers, on the other hand, can be content that they have successfully seen off a statutory union recognition procedure. American high-technology companies, in particular, will be pleased that a voluntary code has been adopted and that their predominantly non-union status will remain unchallenged."

"the benefits of union representation may still accrue to employees, but without any compulsion on employers to concede union recognition."

"There is no legal right in Ireland for trade unions to be recognised for collective bargaining purposes, or to be consulted, other than under the Protection of Employment Act 1977, which provides that in the case of collective redundancies (which is defined in the Act) the employer must consult with the representatives of the employees "with a view to reaching an agreement"." [PS this is interpreted as individuals acting on behalf of colleagues]

"Multinationals are believed to have made it known that any revision to the current voluntary status of union recognition under Irish law and practice would imperil existing foreign direct investment and put future expansion in Ireland in serious jeopardy. The development agencies and government departments operating in the industrial relations field take these risks very seriously indeed, as does the Government."

"EMPLOYERS’ GROUP Ibec has warned that any move by the Government towards a system of mandatory trade union recognition would be unconstitutional and cost Ireland jobs."

When YOUR public sector union quangoes start a meaningful fight to put an end the two tier system, where Ireland is unique in Europe at giving employers the right to deny collective bargaining to workers, I will then consider supporting YOUR narrow little self interest groups that masquerade as trade unions.

You left us behind years ago in Partnership2000, how dare you look for our support now!

Right on sister how wise you are

NOGMaxpower

jmayo wrote: »

Bull rose tinted glasses stuff.
Anytime in our history when we had a revolution there were always plenty who looked after no.1 i.e. themselves and thus it was only with the advent of the likes of Collins who made sure that the revolters were immune from the usual greedy self interested ones.

In case you didn't know Pearse and Connolly were not supported by the vast majority of people, well at least not while they were alive. :rolleyes:



Greatest republic ?
Don't make us laugh.

A republic where for years our young, politically unconnected and poor had to emigrate to foreign parts to find a decent living and send home money to raise the rest of their family at home.

A republic where the catholic church ruled, much as the protestant unionists had predicted.
A republic where for 60 odd years children were imprisoned in industrial schools, where they were raped and torturted by members of the catholic church, all the while the state condoned it by their tacit approval and failure to do anything, even when informed of the abuses.

This would be the republic where the government allowed the church walk away from it's responsibilities regarding the abuse they carried out on the innocent children in their care.
This would be the republic where the police force often went to the church when allegations were made about it's priests.

Ps I know it only offically became a republic in 1949 and thus the abuse was only carried out for parts of it's term within the republic.

This would be republic where one of our prime ministers was a theif accepting gifts from well connected rich businessmen, one of the highest ranking government ministers was proven to be in receipt of property for corrupt favours, where planning was hijacked to make rich developers richer.
Arepublic where the minister of finance didn't have a bank acocunt and claimed the wads of cash in his office were due to being lucky on the nags.

This would be the republic where young girls, who had been abused and raped, were forbidden from travelling to the UK becuase their church run country were too backward to allow them abort the spawn of their rapists.

This would be country where no one is responsible for anything, where a health service does nothing about the needless deaths becuase of misdiagnosis of cancer, where the old are left to die of dehydration and bedsores in nursing homes setup to make connnected developers and businessmen even richer.
This would be the country where a surgeon was allowed operate in a hospital continually needlessly removing the most precious thing a woman has, her womb.
This would be the republic where innocent children were killed by their father becuase the social services don't do weekends. :mad:
This would be a country where our Haemophilia suffereres were given death sentences by the state blood board.
Yet again did anyone ever pay for it, oh yes the innocent victims did.

FFS people who have your opinion about how special we are should take their heads out of their ars** and see what the country is really like.



Those foreigners came here because some of the people currently on the dole would not get off their ars** and go out and work.
Would you be of the same opinion that the Irish in USA, Canada, UK, Australia, etc etc should all fu** off home as well ?

Did any of your family ever emigrate ?



The country is in the mess it is, becuase of people like YOU.
Did you vote for bertie in 2002, did you vote for bertie in 2007 ?

They have been doing this for years and getting away with it for years agin becuase of people like YOU.
For most of the history of this state your party have been in power, so the great list of achievements above are down to them.

No wonder you have such a rosey view of our great republic :rolleyes:
I usually find ffers do think things are much better than they really are since a lot of them have usually benefited in some way from their connection to the party. :rolleyes:

Epic post...

why are you here if you hate Ireland so much?

I am proud of Ireland I am more proud of my heritage.

I am a republican, I have always been a republican, i voted for bertie in 2001. Since then I have vote SF as my primary vote and FF 2ndary.

You all seem very happy to point fingers at people when all you need to do is look at yourselves for someone to blame.

Were you out on the streets up in arms about government corruption? NO so dont make me laugh. Coming from someone who hasn't got one patriotic bone in their body you do come across as self ritious some what.

Not one single person is to blame, not one party is to blame. We ALL stood by and let the last 15 years unfold into what it is today.

But hey you prefer to sit back, blame people and moan about it all now since your wages and life style is being affected. Typical.

I love your take on Irish history and how you've portrayed it to support your own point of view. BTW anyone can do that.

RodgerTheDoger

Unite us, unite the clans....


Freedom!!!

jmayo

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Epic post...

why are you here if you hate Ireland so much?

Typical answer from someone like yourself.
It has always suited the ffers for people to leave hasn't it ?
Emigration had always ensured that the cushy jobs are for those connected and the rest can shag off :rolleyes:

Perhaps I sdhould just do as bertie suggested and go off and kill myself :mad:

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

I am proud of Ireland I am more proud of my heritage.

I am a republican, I have always been a republican, i voted for bertie in 2001. Since then I have vote SF as my primary vote and FF 2ndary.

Wippee for you.
I am not proud of what this country has become and how this country neglected whole swarths of people throughout it's history.
Worst of all it neglected to look after it's children.
How can you be proud of that ?

BTW Sarah Palin is a republican, republican can mean different things to different people.
Just because I don't subscribe to ideals hijacked by some to cover their deeds doesn't mean I am not republican.
Republicanism was hijacked by ff and sf to give their unethical behaviour a cover of legitimacy.
Ah yes SF, the party of cloud cuckoo economics :rolleyes:

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

You all seem very happy to point fingers at people when all you need to do is look at yourselves for someone to blame.

Were you out on the streets up in arms about government corruption? NO so dont make me laugh. Coming from someone who hasn't got one patriotic bone in their body you do come across as self ritious some what.

Not one single person is to blame, not one party is to blame. We ALL stood by and let the last 15 years unfold into what it is today.

But hey you prefer to sit back, blame people and moan about it all now since your wages and life style is being affected. Typical.

I love your take on Irish history and how you've portrayed it to support your own point of view. BTW anyone can do that.

Just because I don't agree with your f***ing rosey take on the history of this country and because I don't chose to sweep the dirty deeds under the carpet I am unpatriotic.

I am probably a hell of a lot more patriotic to the ideals of the founders of this state, the Pearses, the Connollys, the Collins, The Bolands, than the spanners who continued to vote for ff seeing what they were doing.

BTW the patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel :rolleyes:

Of course we all to blame, typical ff speak.
First it was Lehmans then it is us all.

How f***ing dare you claim it is all our fault and that not one party is to blame.
I have never voted for ff so don't claim that I am like you, to blame for the last 12 years.
BTW it is the last 12 years, get that bit right.

Were you on the streets up in arms about corruption ?
Or was that what the throwing paving slabs at the police on O'Connell St was about ?

Not once have you refuted any of the things I have mentioned as being systemic throughout the history of the fine republic you think is the greatest in the world.
How can you, it is fact.
Or perhaps you would like to tell all the innocent victims of the state's behaviour, the victims of systemic child abuse, that it was fine great republic.

Lets here your take on the history of this country to support your point of view then ?
Come on put your money where your mouth is.

oscarBravo

jmayo: calm down.

RodgerTheDoger

Just my opinion, as a nation we have little right to be throwing around national pride... It just sounds stupid!! Makes us sound like idiots.

I sometimes make fun of my Americans friends by saying "God bless America" or "This is America god damn it!" as if these statements actually mean anything!

If you want to follow their example go right a head.

The devide is simple - Our govenment spends more that the country generates so we are racking up debit as we speak! No one wants to take a pay cut? No one wants to make the hard decsions, fine let's go down the road... I know I will just pack my sh1t up and move to the UK...

Loyality pfft... I refused to be bent over and smile and say I was doing my national duty.... Eventually Ireland will only have Public sector workers as the private sector will have moved away for greener fields.

ei.sdraob

Unite?

no ****ing way, i will never forget how the fatly paid PS workers kept the country ransom, their greed will mean more taxes for everyone and cutting of the welfare for the poorest

DOC09UNAM

OP, How dare you try unite the people of ireland??

Don't you know that the private sector have an unrelentless hatred for the public sector, and would all be too bitter to do this.

oscarBravo

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

OP, How dare you try unite the people of ireland??

Don't you know that the private sector have an unrelentless hatred for the public sector, and would all be too bitter to do this.

Or, more prosaically, it's possible that the various people of Ireland have rather different goals and expectations, and the idea that they can be easily united behind a single simplistic slogan is just a little naive.

DOC09UNAM

oscarBravo wrote: »

Or, more prosaically, it's possible that the various people of Ireland have rather different goals and expectations, and the idea that they can be easily united behind a single simplistic slogan is just a little naive.

That's an intellectual way of looking at things.

You're Smart.






No Sarcasm intended, it's just most of the people are disagreeing because they don't like the PS people.

jmayo

oscarBravo wrote: »

jmayo: calm down.

Fair enough.

I am getting too easily roiled up by the soldiers of dysentery.

ei.sdraob

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

OP, How dare you try unite the people of ireland??

Don't you know that the private sector have an unrelentless hatred for the public sector, and would all be too bitter to do this.

when the people in the private sector get the same guaranteed high wages and jobs

then we will unite

tho can only happen under communism once we are all working in the PS


unite my arse, down here in the real world people are a bit more pragmatic,
btw your trade unions screwed its own members, unpaid leave will affect the poorest youngest members of the PS hardest since its a straight cut

DOC09UNAM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

when the people in the private sector get the same guaranteed high wages and jobs

then we will unite

tho can only happen under communism once we are all working in the PS


unite my arse, down here in the real world people are a bit more pragmatic,
btw your trade unions screwed its own members, unpaid leave will affect the poorest youngest members of the PS hardest since its a straight cut

The only people on the "High Wages" as you put it, are the upper level staff, and they will be the least affected by it, it's the young people like you said, that are only trying to earn a living, that are going to be worse off.

egan007

I'm too busy that day.

RodgerTheDoger

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

The only people on the "High Wages" as you put it, are the upper level staff, and they will be the least affected by it, it's the young people like you said, that are only trying to earn a living, that are going to be worse off.

Average is still 50K, I think maybe we need to define "High Wages".


What do you consider, "Low wage", "Modertate wage" and "High wage"?

Considering of course how much the country is actually making......

CeNedra

Apologies if this seems a bit off the point, but I'm kind of going back to the initial post and haven't read every single post in this thread.

I doesn't make sense to me that public and private sector workers unite under one protest AGAINST the governments inability to get us out of this Economic mess. I would like us all to take off the media tinted glasses and look at what is being done.

I am truly amused at people protesting against a govt inability to fix economic issues, when in my heart of hearts, I believe they are making an effort to do so. As a people, is whinging at the Government the best we can do when now is the time when our back is against the wall and we need to drive on with huge economic reform. I am living like the rest of us through tax hikes and the reality of hiring embargo's in our Public Sector to limit cost expansion. This is not being done to gather votes. In reality it is being done by a Government trying to stop the rot in a pretty difficult circumstance and driving themselves closer to being out of office the more action they take. Would it not be easier for the Government to run to the IMF?
Can we not (shame on me for suggesting this) march on the GPO in support of the Government's effort and give them the public support they need to address the issues we face and drive on with this difficult change or are we going to bitch and moan through the whole bloody thing and make this change more and more difficult and drawn out?

The Government is also trying to deal with the Unions. Man I hate that word, I believe that Unions are one of the most economically damaging inventions ever. Bertie kissed their posteriors during the tiger era and now Cowen is taking a whip out to them to try to get ground back. The reality of life is that efficiency is what we need. We need all the services that our taxes pay for, but we want more value for money. This means, when a teacher cannot teach well, they either improve, or walk. When a nurse cannot nurse, they improve or take a hike and get replaced by somebody who can do the job better and faster and more efficiently. I really believe that a great eg here is teaching. We've all had good and bad teachers. Why do we have to accept the bad ones until they retire? It is ridiculous. This is the kind of reform I would like to see Long term. It drives me nuts that this isn't just the norm and a fight with Unions is needed for every scrap of efficiency that should just be a given. Yes I know wage cuts are happening next week and that won't be easy, especially for lower paid workers. But the way I believe the public sector need to think is, my job is not secure. I need to work better and give my employer more value for the money he is paying me. If I don't, somebody else will.

Obviously I work private sector. We've had salary cuts and an ongoing freeze. New headcount is almost impossible to get so more and more is being squeezed out of the current base. However, to be fair, when the bar is raised people tend to rise to it.

We have the 'up or out' procedure. Poor performers go on performance improvement plans. If they don't improve they get fired. People who do their job well have nothing to worry about. Really good performers get really good salary hikes and bonus'. Good performance = good rewards. Bad performance = bye bye.

By the way, I've never voted FF in my life. But I'm heading that direction based on Economic suggestions coming out of FG and Labour currently.


Lets do something crazy but maybe more productive than all the whinging that is going on .... unite to support the Govt push through Economic change on a grand scale ...... yee haw!