EU 'saved country from total collapse'

Scofflaw · 03-12-2009 3:52pm #1

THE Irish economy would have collapsed during the banking crisis last year had it not been for the support of Europe, Finance Minister Brian Lenihan admitted yesterday.

Support from the European Central Bank, after the banks were guaranteed in September of last year, helped save our bacon, he added.

"Were we not in the euro zone in the last year, our banking crisis could have resulted in a general collapse of the State," Mr Lenihan said in Brussels.

"That didn't happen because of the ECB. I believe that Ireland should play its full part in constructing a robust system of European financial supervision."

Independent

Of course he's only saying that to try to get people to vote Yes...oh, no, wait...he's only saying it to get Fianna Fáil off the hook...no, wait...he's probably just wrong, anyway, I'm sure.

amused,
Scofflaw

ei.sdraob · 03-12-2009 4:07pm

did you not hear some bright whooring sparks (DMcW im looking at you) think we should leave the euro and "float" on our own

peasant · 03-12-2009 4:38pm

From the same article:

Since the time of the bank guarantee scheme, the European Commission and the ECB have been monitoring the Irish banking sector and economy.

The Commission is currently reviewing restructuring programmes for Anglo, Allied Irish and Bank of Ireland.

Does this mean possible nationalisation (or should that be EU-isation?) of those banks via EU commission decree?

mike65 · 03-12-2009 4:41pm

I read somewhere that the ECB intervention was worth about 30 billion euro in short term finance.

Scofflaw · 03-12-2009 4:42pm

peasant wrote: »

From the same article:

Does this mean possible nationalisation (or should that be EU-isation?) of those banks via EU commission decree?

Not based on those couple of phrases, anyway. As far as I know, though, the rules on state aids to banks can have the result that the government winds up getting more and more shares in the bank.

cordially,
Scofflaw

ei.sdraob · 03-12-2009 4:48pm

peasant wrote: »

From the same article:

Does this mean possible nationalisation (or should that be EU-isation?) of those banks via EU commission decree?

actually i wouldn't be surprised if EU steps in and does something about Irish banks

the current pseudo-nationalization is very anti competitive, and they already stepped in last month and sorted that dutch bank out

K-9 · 03-12-2009 4:54pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

actually i wouldn't be surprised if EU steps in and does something about Irish banks

the current pseudo-nationalization is very anti competitive, and they already stepped in last month and sorted that dutch bank out

I'd read the Commission was keeping a close eye on Anglo Irish.

BetterLisbon · 03-12-2009 8:57pm

Our banking crisis was caused by our eurozone membership in the first place. So i dont see why we should be so grateful to europe.

Martin 2 · 03-12-2009 9:02pm

BetterLisbon wrote: »

Our banking crisis was caused by our eurozone membership in the first place. So i dont see why we should be so grateful to europe.

Our banking crisis was caused by poor banking practice and ineffective government regulation. Our banking sector survival is largely due to Eurozone membership and associated ECB liquidity support.

evercloserunion · 03-12-2009 9:04pm

BetterLisbon wrote: »

Our banking crisis was caused by our eurozone membership in the first place. So i dont see why we should be so grateful to europe.

I suppose you could pin the banking crisis on Europe in that if it weren't for our membership of the EU we would have no money to put in banks, so we couldn't have a banking crisis.

But I'm not sure that option is much better.

BetterLisbon · 03-12-2009 9:12pm

We could be like Sweden. In the EU but not in the euro. Its worked out very well for them despite a tsunami of scaremongering during their 2003 referendum campaignabout economic collapse if they said no.

K-9 · 03-12-2009 9:21pm

BetterLisbon wrote: »

We could be like Sweden. In the EU but not in the euro. Its worked out very well for them despite a tsunami of scaremongering during their 2003 referendum campaignabout economic collapse if they said no.

Don't think they had a property bubble or huge banking crisis like say Iceland, neither did Germany come to think of it.

SkepticOne · 03-12-2009 10:08pm

K-9 wrote: »

Don't think they had a property bubble or huge banking crisis like say Iceland, neither did Germany come to think of it.

They did have one in the early nineties and the memory of this may have influenced their decision.

K-9 · 03-12-2009 10:14pm

SkepticOne wrote: »

They did have one in the early nineties and the memory of this may have influenced their decision.

Considering only a couple of countries in the Euro had property bubbles that would have been an incorrect influence.

Even Spain hasn't had the same banking crisis as us. The wonders of bank regulation.

oscarBravo · 03-12-2009 10:22pm

BetterLisbon wrote: »

Our banking crisis was caused by our eurozone membership in the first place.

As was the recent flooding throughout the country. And the puncture I got there a while back.

nesf · 04-12-2009 3:43am

K-9 wrote: »

Even Spain hasn't had the same banking crisis as us. The wonders of bank regulation.

Aye, Spain is a good example of how a housing bubble doesn't automatically cause a banking crisis.

jhegarty · 04-12-2009 3:56am

oscarBravo wrote: »

As was the recent flooding throughout the country. And the puncture I got there a while back.

So you don't think the low interest rates during the bubble made the problem worse ?

K-9 · 04-12-2009 4:11am

jhegarty wrote: »

So you don't think the low interest rates during the bubble made the problem worse ?

Personally, I believe Bertie telling naysayers to commit suicide, Tax Relief on €1,700 a month Interest for First Time Buyers, Yep, €20,000 a year mortgage interest was tax deductible and encouraged (would be a €Million mortgage), ignoring warnings from the ECB, you know the EUROPEAN CENTRAL BANK, Regulators being warned about lending to affordability ratios and asking banks about how much they where lending as far back as 2003, Banks said "Nah, of course we aren't lending too much", Regulator said "OK then", everybody ignoring warnings from as far back as 2002 on the property bubble, "Rent is dead money" mantra, the keeping up with the Jones lifestyle, investors flooding the market with tax incentives, property always goes up, the Irish obsession with property, Govt. and Unions giving income tax cuts for people to afford houses, the I deserve a house mentality, investors in for a quick buck and selling for a quick buck, Estate Agents, nobody bothering to invest in anything not property related, FF, Coalitions, FG/Labour, I could go on.

But YEP, it was mostly down to the Euro.

Flamed Diving · 05-12-2009 11:36am

BetterLisbon wrote: »

Our banking crisis was caused by our eurozone membership in the first place. So i dont see why we should be so grateful to europe.

What a pathetically simplistic statement.

ei.sdraob · 05-12-2009 11:56am

Flamed Diving wrote: »

What a pathetically simplistic statement.

sounds like something he read in Daily Mail

SkepticOne · 05-12-2009 6:05pm

Flamed Diving wrote: »

"EU 'saved country from total collapse'" What a pathetically simplistic statement.

FYP

nesf · 05-12-2009 6:48pm

Flamed Diving wrote: »

What a pathetically simplistic statement.

It's from the Indo, what do you expect!

Flamed Diving · 05-12-2009 6:52pm

SkepticOne wrote: »

FYP

Wellllll, you know that isn't true.

utick · 10-12-2009 1:34am

Flamed Diving wrote: »

What a pathetically simplistic statement.

no more pathetically simplistic than ' EU 'saved country from total collapse'

View · 10-12-2009 1:53am

utick wrote: »

no more pathetically simplistic than ' EU 'saved country from total collapse'

The difference is the ECB actually DID provide Irish banks (which was used to buy Irish Government debt) with money during the worst of the financial crisis last year when no one else would. So, it may be simplistic but it is actually true in this case.

Flamed Diving · 10-12-2009 8:45am

utick wrote: »

no more pathetically simplistic than ' EU 'saved country from total collapse'

No, it really isn't when you actually know what the terms suggest.

Max Power1 · 10-12-2009 8:52am

ei.sdraob wrote: »

did you not hear some bright whooring sparks (DMcW im looking at you) think we should leave the euro and "float" on our own

I would say we would more than likely sink, rather than "float" on our own. Do you think we would survive as a country and economy, with the vast ever increasing levels of debt we have?

Did you know for example, that the mooted €4Billion savings will only go to pay the interest on our national debt next year?

RedPlanet · 10-12-2009 5:38pm

I'm still waiting for those jobs we were promised for voting yes.

seamus · 10-12-2009 5:42pm

RedPlanet wrote: »

I'm still waiting for those jobs we were promised for voting yes.

Here you go:
http://www.businessandleadership.com/leadership/news/article/17969/leadership/50-lismore-jobs-created-by-pharma-manufacturer

Furious-Dave · 10-12-2009 6:09pm

RedPlanet wrote: »

I'm still waiting for those jobs we were promised for voting yes.

Well you have to wait until the Lisbon Treaty is written into law first, and then a little bit more time for it to actually take effect. Even if jobs were promised, which they weren't, did anyone actually give a time frame for their creation, or is that some people thought and still think, despite being told otherwise, that they would just suddenly start appearing?

View · 10-12-2009 7:35pm

RedPlanet wrote: »

I'm still waiting for those jobs we were promised for voting yes.

Well, anytime you want you can have a job as a conscript in the EU Army. Just ask your local No group to find out where you need to report...

PS The changes in Lisbon really turned out make a really, really big deal in our day-to-day lives, didn't they? :rolleyes:

EU 'saved country from total collapse'

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