The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread

Hazys

According to Adam Schefter's Twitter, Pats just traded Maroney to Denver...good riddence

I'd be suprised if we got more than a 4th round pick for him.

raven136

any word on whether the Jets will try trade for a replacement for jenkins?

ReacherCreature

Hazys wrote: »

According to Adam Schefter's Twitter, Pats just traded Maroney to Denver...good riddence

I'd be suprised if we got more than a 4th round pick for him.

That's a little bit of a shock as I thought we'd keep him for the season.

Anyways I don't think he ever lived up to his 1st round pick status, always very fustrating watching him play. Not a fan by any strech.

Hazys

New England gets Denver's fourth-round pick in 2011 and Denver gets New England's sixth-round pick in 2011.

Pfft what a bust.


I expect us to resign Murrell after releasing him yesterday.

ReacherCreature

He's had four years of opportunity (drop one year to injury I think) and didn't once hit a 1000 yards. I know the Patriots ran a commitee of running backs half the time but the chance was there. 835 yards was his top. Thanks for the service and all that I suppose. 4th rounder, probably will get something good for that.

eagle eye

Hazys wrote: »

New England gets Denver's fourth-round pick in 2011 and Denver gets New England's sixth-round pick in 2011.

Pfft what a bust.


I expect us to resign Murrell after releasing him yesterday.

I don't understand the trade at all. Who are we going to bring in to replace him?

There is no way that you can depend on Taylor and Morris to stay fit. Morris has never been fit for a full season for the Patriots and Taylor hasn't been fit for a full season for a couple of years.

Lawfirm must be better than I thought anyways but we need another RB on the roster imo. I don't rate BJGE at all tbh.

I think LoMo will go on to have a very good career in the NFL. He did well for us before we changed the blocking schemes. Denver have a very good run blocking line and I expect him to do really well there.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't understand the trade at all. Who are we going to bring in to replace him?

There is no way that you can depend on Taylor and Morris to stay fit. Morris has never been fit for a full season for the Patriots and Taylor hasn't been fit for a full season for a couple of years.

Lawfirm must be better than I thought anyways but we need another RB on the roster imo. I don't rate BJGE at all tbh.

I think LoMo will go on to have a very good career in the NFL. He did well for us before we changed the blocking schemes. Denver have a very good run blocking line and I expect him to do really well there.

As I have said before Maroney doesn't suit the Pats system and never has. I know you seem to like him but he wasn't the back we thought we were drafting. I wouldn't say he was a bust but his jittery sidestepping for me was enough to make him nothing more than average. Maroney will work well in a system that gives him maximum protection while carrying the football and right now the Pats don't give him that. The Pats need to find a back that will make space and find the gaps quicker. Lets face it Maroney wasn't that guy.

As for Law firm most likely wont be Maroney's replacement. But to be honest I would rather give him the chance behind Taylor/Faulk/Morris than give Maroney any more time. He never got over his backfield dancing and was never explosive enough. At least with Lawfirm he knows which direction to run and for me looks like he has ability. No harm keeping him fresh behind the old men.

And we will most likely go to the Draft to find a replacement for Maroney

Max Power1

Bit of a surprise there with Maroney - a former 1st rounder traded for basically SFA.

Also - I just saw the replay of the jets-ravens game on ESPN. I dont get all the hype around the Jets this season, their offense was shockingly poor last night, and the defense wasnt that great either.

Sanchez just checks down every pass for the safe couple of yards, when a long opportunity was open. You wont win the big games like that!

Peyton Manning

Well then it's decided.

Mark Ingram with the Raiders' pick next year.

That would be nice

Max Power1 wrote: »

Bit of a surprise there with Maroney - a former 1st rounder traded for basically SFA.

You're forgetting that a 4th round draft pick for Bill Belichick is as good as a 2nd round draft pick anywhere else

Dohnny Jepp

Pity his 1st's are as good as 4th anywhere else:P

tallaghtoutlaws

Read the following written by a Fins fan on one of the websites I use and it describes Maroney perfectly: <

---

Added the Smiley to emphasize the hilarity of it.

Nothing wears down a defense like chasing Laurence Maroney around in the backfield as he dances around indecisively gaining no yards. Scratch that. Running down Maroney’s innumerable fumbles will tire a defense out even more.

eagle eye

Whats the bit about fumbles? He has less fumbles per carry than most RBs in the league.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

Whats the bit about fumbles? He has less fumbles per carry than most RBs in the league.

Dude I think he was joking you know banter and all of that. Really not to be taken serious. But to be fair to the Fins fan if he based it on last season Maroney had 4 fumbles and when you only start in 5 of the 15 games and to anyone would seem like a lot. Anyways I thought it was funny and now he isn't a Pats player he is fair game to me because honestly he was a let down in my opinion. For a guy drafted in Round 1 of a draft he didn't do enough.

Peyton Manning

If he cuts out the tapdancing behind the line of scrimmage, he'll have a decent career. But he probably won't, because while he looked like he had at one stage last year, he quickly reverted to the same old shíte again not long after.

tallaghtoutlaws

Archimedes wrote: »

If he cuts out the tapdancing behind the line of scrimmage, he'll have a decent career. But he probably won't, because while he looked like he had at one stage last year, he quickly reverted to the same old shíte again not long after.

This exactly he has failed so often to completely cut out the dancing around in the backfield. Old habits die hard.

eagle eye

Archimedes wrote: »

If he cuts out the tapdancing behind the line of scrimmage, he'll have a decent career. But he probably won't, because while he looked like he had at one stage last year, he quickly reverted to the same old shíte again not long after.

The reason he was dancing behind the line is there were no holes being opened for him.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

The reason he was dancing behind the line is there were no holes being opened for him.

Ah come on Eagle Eye we all know that isn't true. How many times have we watched him stutter and go sideways instead of hit the accelerator. Often had he moved forward he could have found space. A pro back with that offensive line should be able to find holes. You put any of the other top backs behind the O-line the Pats have had over the years and they would easily have have had 1000 yard seasons.

Peyton Manning

eagle eye wrote: »

The reason he was dancing behind the line is there were no holes being opened for him.

Fred Taylor doesn't have any problem ploughing straight ahead, because he doesn't dance around like a bloody loon.

eagle eye

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Ah come on Eagle Eye we all know that isn't true. How many times have we watched him stutter and go sideways instead of hit the accelerator. Often had he moved forward he could have found space. A pro back with that offensive line should be able to find holes. You put any of the other top backs behind the O-line the Pats have had over the years and they would easily have have had 1000 yard seasons.

It is true, I seen it so many times, he gets up to the line and there was no hole so he dances to keep himself ready to shift if a hole opens.

ReacherCreature

eagle eye wrote: »

The reason he was dancing behind the line is there were no holes being opened for him.

Totally disagree.

Sammy Morris has had over 300 yards twice and 700 yards once in three years and has hardly appeared as much as Maroney. Corey Dillon was even successful late on. BJGE has had over 300 yards too in limited starts. Kevin Faulk has also been efficient.

Maroney wasn't good enough.

That offensive line is very proficient and works well as a unit.

We also need a stud back who'll be in for all downs.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

It is true, I seen it so many times, he gets up to the line and there was no hole so he dances to keep himself ready to shift if a hole opens.

What? Are you for real? You truly believe his dancing is down to him getting himself ready to find a hole? Any coach or expert will tell you Maroney excessively dances around and it is unneccessary as he he should be pulling the trigger a lot quicker. Fred Taylor prime example on Sunday behind a similar o-line as Archie said he had no problems finding holes so what makes him any different to Maroney? I will tell you Taylor pulls the trigger and adjusts on the move.

Most of the great running backs and backs behind weaker lines find holes on the move or fight for room. Maroney on the other hand dances side to side and loses yards far too often. Had he moved forward more and had the ability to adjust on the run he might have hit 1000 yards seasons with Pats. Simple fact he cannot kick the old habit. As Archie said he found holes last season and then for some reason went back to his old ways towards the end of the season. If he doesn't kick it he will never succeed with any team unless they have 5 linemen who can give him space to fit a truck in.

I will give you an example my O-line with UCD this season gone wasn't the strongest and when they came up against a D-line and Linebacker Corp that pushed them around my runningbacks had to work harder to find room. And they found room because they were coached to find the room. Nothing wrong with shifting left and right when you are moving forward and keeping momentum going. Even if you don't break long yardage you can still get 2 to 3 yards per run and those yards add up.

Now before you say the IAFL isn't the pros that isn't the issue here it is the basic principle of running the ball that is. Maroney needs to move forward and find open space if the original hole closes. If the holes close at least get a couple of yards to get that ball moving forward. Maroney has given up far too many yards over the last few years and unless he changes his ways he will struggle at Denver also.

Remember the Pros is a lot faster than college so the RB has to have some ability to find his own room especially if he was drafted 1st round. He is after all supposed to be the best of the best.

eagle eye

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Totally disagree.

Sammy Morris has had over 300 yards twice and 700 yards once in three years and has hardly appeared as much as Maroney. Corey Dillon was even successful late on. BJGE has had over 300 yards too in limited starts. Kevin Faulk has also been efficient.

Maroney wasn't good enough.

That offensive line is very proficient and works well as a unit.

We also need a stud back who'll be in for all downs.

I've always liked Sammy Morris but the thing is he can never stay fit.

You are looking at yardage that people had. You need to look at ypc which gives you a much greater understanding of how a back is doing.

Lawfirm has been very poor for us over his time here to date. I'm not saying thats the case now but until proven otherwise he is just a very average backup.

We changed our offensive line system a couple of years back and its very good at pass blocking but not at run blocking. I was hoping that with the addition of Crumpler and Gronk that we would see Maroney get a chance to shine this year but he is gone.

I personally think there must have been off the field issues. BB has been clearing out all the players who were a problem in the locker room and bringing in leaders. Maybe this was the case with Maroney.

But anybody saying he was a big time fumbler is flat our wrong. Its a crazy statement.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

We changed our offensive line system a couple of years back and its very good at pass blocking but not at run blocking. I was hoping that with the addition of Crumpler and Gronk that we would see Maroney get a chance to shine this year but he is gone.

But this goes against everything you say about Maroney in the sense that you are saying he is a solid back and can get yards and you blame the O-line that isn't good at run blocking. So now are you saying that Maroney did all that work himself?

Our O-line can block and they have shown they can block by getting our backs room to run i.e Maroney's yards over the last few seasons added with the other backs. The issue here is Maroney and to be honest with you, you are in a small minority of Pats fans that is laying the blame away from Maroney.

Just look at the numbers in the regular season the Pats had just over 1900 yards on the ground 12th best rushing team Maroney 757 of those yards. 2008: 2278 yards 6th best team, Maroney 93 but he was injured. 2007 1849yds Maroney 835yds. I could go on but you get the idea, Maroney only averaged 39% of our yards on the ground in 2009 and 2007.

But sitting here all day watching TV in MA and everyone is saying that his flaws are most likely the reason that got him sent packing. So many pundits have picked up on his dancing and inability to punch through or hit the gas or get moving forward as his problem. Now they are saying what we all are if Maroney fixes those flaws he can do good but it seems the Pats i.e BB has given up on his wait to see that.

I personally think there must have been off the field issues. BB has been clearing out all the players who were a problem in the locker room and bringing in leaders. Maybe this was the case with Maroney.

I don't agree. There is nothing to suggest this and there has never been anything to ever back this up. In fact looking at interviews with Faulk and others today it seems they will miss Maroney.

But anybody saying he was a big time fumbler is flat our wrong. Its a crazy statement.

Are you really going back to that statement I posted earlier from a Fins fan? No one here suggested it. Its nothing more than smack talk.

eagle eye

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

What? Are you for real? You truly believe his dancing is down to him getting himself ready to find a hole? Any coach or expert will tell you Maroney excessively dances around and it is unneccessary as he he should be pulling the trigger a lot quicker. Fred Taylor prime example on Sunday behind a similar o-line as Archie said he had no problems finding holes so what makes him any different to Maroney? I will tell you Taylor pulls the trigger and adjusts on the move.

When there is no hole and no blocker how do you pull the trigger? Seriously he gets up to the line and there is no hole where its supposed to be. Our line was stepping backwards most of the time as thats what they practiced, being willing to go backwards to protect Tom Brady. You see when Matt Light got injured last year and the few games that Seabass played at left tackle that Maroney has successful games. The when Light came back in there was nowhere to go. And I did take particular notice of the fact that they went to Vollmer's side almost always in the game against the Bengals. Vollmer is a beast and our future left tackle for sure and he can open holes.
Now don't think I'm dishing Matt Light here, he is one of the best pass protecting left tackles in the game. Thats the primary focus of that offensive line but thats what he is a blocker and not a hole opener, and Kaczur was similar but not nearly as good.
Like look at the set up on most of Maroneys downs last year. He was standing beside Brady in the shotgun, like where is he going to find a hole when the line is protecting the passer.
And Maroney was a great blocker for Brady. Lawfirm cannot block, Morris struggles with it.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Most of the great running backs and backs behind weaker lines find holes on the move or fight for room. Maroney on the other hand dances side to side and loses yards far too often. Had he moved forward more and had the ability to adjust on the run he might have hit 1000 yards seasons with Pats. Simple fact he cannot kick the old habit. As Archie said he found holes last season and then for some reason went back to his old ways towards the end of the season. If he doesn't kick it he will never succeed with any team unless they have 5 linemen who can give him space to fit a truck in.

I don't want to hear about the greats, just because a guy is taken in the first round doesn't mean he has to be a great. Name to me the guys who have been successful behind a weak run blocking line? Joseph Addai? Do you think he is better than Maroney? I certainly don't and he has been working behind a pass protecting line too. Hell the Colts even went out and spent a first round pick on Donald Brown last year but he hasn't had anymore success than Addai behind that line. Its not the RB its the line thats the problem, you need a Jerome Bettis type if you are going to be successful running the ball with a line like that.
I just know that Maroney will prove himself in Denver now.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

I will give you an example my O-line with UCD this season gone wasn't the strongest and when they came up against a D-line and Linebacker Corp that pushed them around my runningbacks had to work harder to find room. And they found room because they were coached to find the room. Nothing wrong with shifting left and right when you are moving forward and keeping momentum going. Even if you don't break long yardage you can still get 2 to 3 yards per run and those yards add up.

Now before you say the IAFL isn't the pros that isn't the issue here it is the basic principle of running the ball that is. Maroney needs to move forward and find open space if the original hole closes. If the holes close at least get a couple of yards to get that ball moving forward. Maroney has given up far too many yards over the last few years and unless he changes his ways he will struggle at Denver also.

Remember the Pros is a lot faster than college so the RB has to have some ability to find his own room especially if he was drafted 1st round. He is after all supposed to be the best of the best.

Look its just ludicrous to compare an amateur league to the NFL, just like its ludicrous to compare college ball to the NFL.
As you say in the last line there, the pros is a lot faster than college ball and players rarely miss tackles too and its hard to push somebody around. Its a completely different game.

eagle eye

Archimedes wrote: »

Fred Taylor doesn't have any problem ploughing straight ahead, because he doesn't dance around like a bloody loon.

Fred Taylor has always been known for his brilliance at finding an extra half yard in the trenches. Its what made him so good or great actually.

eagle eye

Oh just as an addition to that post Tallaght, Maroney had 6 TDs and 364 yards in the 5 games that Light missed last season.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

.


Look its just ludicrous to compare an amateur league to the NFL, just like its ludicrous to compare college ball to the NFL.
As you say in the last line there, the pros is a lot faster than college ball and players rarely miss tackles too and its hard to push somebody around. Its a completely different game.

You missed the whole point of what I said. I clearly put this in the piece to show you I wasn't comparing the level.

Now before you say the IAFL isn't the pros that isn't the issue here it is the basic principle of running the ball that is.

Fundamentals and principles of the game do not change regardless of level. All RBs are thought the same things from Pee Wee all the way up to the pros.

As for the rest of your post please find the reply when I posted here

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

When there is no hole and no blocker how do you pull the trigger?

Running backs are told to keep driving or find option B if the whole you intent to go through is closed. Pulling the trigger is moving at speed forward and finding a hole or getting some yards even if you have to drive through men to do it. Maroney dancing around in the backfield and gaining no yards or losing yards is the complete opposite to what they are thought to do. RB are told to fight for any yard

Seriously he gets up to the line and there is no hole where its supposed to be.

Really? And there is you saying I cannot make comparisons to an amateur league when you are asking this question. He is a pro running back. He is expected to find yards or even if its only 1 yard. Do you want someone to point out holes to him or show him where to go?

Our line was stepping backwards most of the time as thats what they practiced, being willing to go backwards to protect Tom Brady.

Bullsh1t. Linemen are thought Pass protection and Run Blocking and should know which one to use when the play is called.

You see when Matt Light got injured last year and the few games that Seabass played at left tackle that Maroney has successful games. The when Light came back in there was nowhere to go. And I did take particular notice of the fact that they went to Vollmer's side almost always in the game against the Bengals. Vollmer is a beast and our future left tackle for sure and he can open holes.

Oh so wait its now Matt Lights fault that Maroney can't find yards? One man on the line?

Now don't think I'm dishing Matt Light here, he is one of the best pass protecting left tackles in the game.

Sure seem like you are dishing him. Great Pass blocker or not he should know how to run block and has shown in the past he is well capable

Thats the primary focus of that offensive line but thats what he is a blocker and not a hole opener, and Kaczur was similar but not nearly as good.

Again ALL Linemen on the offensive line are thought from pee wee through high school and college how to pass protect and Run Block. ALL our linemen know how to run block. Some better than others but I guarantee the Pats don't tell their Linemen to step back on run plays.

Like look at the set up on most of Maroneys downs last year. He was standing beside Brady in the shotgun, like where is he going to find a hole when the line is protecting the passer.

What? Come on Eagle Eye you have been watching the game long enough. Plenty of team line up in a shotgun set with singleback and run the ball comfortably. There are plenty of running plays designed for this setup. And if a run play is called the linemen wont be looking to Pass block they will be looking to run block. of course you will get plays like draws that will mimic the Pass but the majority of run plays linemen will run block and go forward to block their men.

And Maroney was a great blocker for Brady. Lawfirm cannot block, Morris struggles with it.

I never questioned this so why bring it up.

I don't want to hear about the greats, just because a guy is taken in the first round doesn't mean he has to be a great. Name to me the guys who have been successful behind a weak run blocking line? Joseph Addai? Do you think he is better than Maroney?

We are not talking about the Colts or any other team we are talking about Maroney and the Pats. As for my comparison with the greats and other backs who deal with sh1t o-lines and still get yards they all know how to find holes and get yards and dont dance around in the backfield.

I certainly don't and he has been working behind a pass protecting line too. Hell the Colts even went out and spent a first round pick on Donald Brown last year but he hasn't had anymore success than Addai behind that line. Its not the RB its the line thats the problem, you need a Jerome Bettis type if you are going to be successful running the ball with a line like that.

Who cares what the Colts do?

I just know that Maroney will prove himself in Denver now.

Fair enough like many of your sure predictions in the past I will be sure to come back to this one if Maroney is still dancing around in the backfield at Denver. I hope he fixes his kinks that you dont seem to see because if he doesn't he will most surely fall.

eagle eye

I kept praising Sammy Morris in the past and you kept giving out about him but you never came back to that.;)
I predicted Tebow would go in the first round and you never came back to that one either.:)

I'm surprised at you thats coaching not understanding how bad the Pats line was at run blocking over the past two seasons. I'm convinced it was because of their primary focus(and rightly so) and most practice reps being at pass protection for Brady.

This year is a whole lot different with the addition of Crumpler, Gronk and our second year stud right tackle Sebastien 'Seabass' Vollmer.

Also there are straight ahead short yardage RBs and guys who break for big yardage. Maroney is in the second category, he is the guy that when he gets in the open field can do untold damage. There are those who can do both but they are the greats.

A good example of this would be DeAngelo Williams who was the next RB off the board in the first round in 2006 when the Patriots took Maroney. He looked poor his first two years until they signed Jonathon Stewart who is the pounder on that team. Felix Jones again is similar to Maroney.

Our RB by committee approach worked because teams could not prepare to face Faulk, Taylor and Maroney and then Sammy Morris who could play full back, catch the ball and pound in short yardage situations.

We have a problem now though, we have three 34 year old RBs, two who have been injury prone and Faulk who is the 3rd down back. And then we have lawfirm who has been just a very average backup who has an NFL carrer average of 3.9 yards per carry.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm surprised at you thats coaching not understanding how bad the Pats line was at run blocking over the past two seasons. I'm convinced it was because of their primary focus(and rightly so) and most practice reps being at pass protection for Brady.

Eagle Eye I was a lineman and as a coach the O-line is my forte and the Pats O-line is not as bad as you are making it out to be. The Pats O-line isn't the greatest in the world but as I have proven with the stats they did a good enough job in the last 3 season helping us get yards on the ground. Considering our rushing was top 15 for the last 3 seasons they are not all that bad.

You have yet to answer this post

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68031524&postcount=414

This year is a whole lot different with the addition of Crumpler, Gronk and our second year stud right tackle Sebastien 'Seabass' Vollmer.

See above I have already shown you in the link that those before did a decent enough job.

Also there are straight ahead short yardage RBs and guys who break for big yardage. Maroney is in the second category, he is the guy that when he gets in the open field can do untold damage. There are those who can do both but they are the greats.

Now you are just making excuses for the guy. Everyone see his stutter and dancing in the backfield is a problem bar you.

A good example of this would be DeAngelo Williams who was the next RB off the board in the first round in 2006 when the Patriots took Maroney. He looked poor his first two years until they signed Jonathon Stewart who is the pounder on that team. Felix Jones again is similar to Maroney.

Williams never looked poor. He got eased into the game. The Panthers never rushed Williams in and let him find his feet first.

Our RB by committee approach worked because teams could not prepare to face Faulk, Taylor and Maroney and then Sammy Morris who could play full back, catch the ball and pound in short yardage situations.

What are you trying say here towards this debate?

We have a problem now though, we have three 34 year old RBs, two who have been injury prone and Faulk who is the 3rd down back. And then we have lawfirm who has been just a very average backup who has an NFL carrer average of 3.9 yards per carry.

None of them are carrying injuries just yet and none of us know what BB plans are. A problem doesn't exist until one of the others get a long term injury. Sure if they do then we have problems but we have to deal with it and to be honest with you patience must have worn through with Maroney. The Pats coaches obviously realised the kid wasn't fixing himself quick enough and traded him.

As for Lawfirm to be honest with you, it is clear you don't like him. He has to be given some sort of opportunity to spread his wings. This is his 3rd season and he has been behind the other backs for the last 2. I don't know how you can judge a guy who hasn't been given more time to run.

To sum up Maroney is his own problem. His dancing in the backfield is a clear problem. Our O-line are not the greatest run blockers in the world but they have shown they can block for our backs by getting a total of 6477 rushing yards over 3 seasons (2007,2008,2009)