The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread

Peyton Manning

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Whatever team makes it out the West will be crushed in the play-offs, unless the Chargers cop themselves on.

Chargers? Cop on? Playoffs?

Not in a bazillion years!

Chucky the tree

Archimedes wrote: »

Chargers? Cop on? Playoffs?

Not in a bazillion years!

As much as I'd love too I wouldn't rule it out and I wouldn't discount the Broncos either.

davyjose

eagle eye wrote: »

Fitzpatrick is just having a good run is all. I remember watching him last year against the Dolphins and against the Patriots and he looked real good but he stunk up the joint against the Jets and the Texans.

He is kinda like Aaron Rodgers in that he is a good scrambler but he just makes too many mistakes when pressured.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's punching above his weight somewhat. But 100+ QB rating with the worst team in the league is some achievement. That doesn't happen by accident in the NFL, so he's got to have some talent.

I certainly wouldn't see any reason for the Bills to trade for Orton. There's not a big enough gap in quality between the two, when the Bills have so many other holes to fill. Saying he's not good enough is wrong too. Remember, Orton is benefitting under McDaniels guidance too.

eagle eye

Archimedes wrote: »

The Chiefs would do even better if Todd Haley wasn't such a buffoon and stopped inexplicably giving Thomas Jones more carries than Jamaal Charles. Jones should be a short yardage or goal line back at the most. Haley's an idiot, he must be the only person in the world who doesn't seem to rate Charles when it's clear the guy is a freaking stud.

Its actually a three time Superbowl winning offensive co-ordinator named Charlis Weis who is running the offense. Its a very smart move too, they have posted back to back 200+ yard rushing games. As he said in an interview when asked about splitting carries, he is looking at the big picture. He wants those guys to still be as fresh in November and December as they are now.

Do you still think that the person making that decision is a buffoon?

And the split at the moment is 99/81 in favour of Jones after 6 games which means he has gotten 3 more carries per game which is nothing.

eagle eye

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Jets and Texans?

Against the Jets - 12/27 128yds and 2 Tds and 0 Ints and 74 yards on the ground.

Hardly stinking up the place. And

Against the Texans 0/0 0yds and 0 Tds and 0 Ints ....... Oh wait they haven't played the Texans this season.

As for last year. Last year is last year and hardly fair to base your opinion of him on a previous season and write him off as a bad QB over 1 season. QBs can grow and get better surprised you are so short sighted on abilities changing considering you fought tooth and nail on Tebow adjusting himself for the NFL.

Ryan Fitzpatrick has shown this season he can compete in the NFL and the fact he is doing it with very little protection and average wide receivers shows that he is working hard in the off season. Many ex coaches and players have said the same about him.


EDIT: I just noticed you said last season also for the Jets and Texans so Im going to keep my post as is either way.

Firstly the average wide receivers thing is a bit much. They have Lee Evans who is an elite wide receiver imo. I'd love to see him with the Patriots.
This Steve Johnson seems to be pretty special too in fairness.
And yes I was talking about last year not this year. I just think that QBs that make mistakes when pressured will continue to do that. Maybe he is one in a million that can change from a guy that made mistakes into a guy that doesn't. I've always thought he was very talented, I think comparing him to Aaron Rodgers shows that but until we see him consistently do this for a season I think its far too early to be calling him a very good QB.
Tbh I expect him to do that same thing again and start making mistakes. He has looked this good in previous seasons and then just fallen off. Lets be fair, if he was that good at Training Camp he would have been starting ahead of Trent Edwards.

Peyton Manning

eagle eye wrote: »

Its actually a three time Superbowl winning offensive co-ordinator named Charlis Weis who is running the offense. Its a very smart move too, they have posted back to back 200+ yard rushing games. As he said in an interview when asked about splitting carries, he is looking at the big picture. He wants those guys to still be as fresh in November and December as they are now.

Do you still think that the person making that decision is a buffoon?

And the split at the moment is 99/81 in favour of Jones after 6 games which means he has gotten 3 more carries per game which is nothing.

It's very likely that it's Haley's decision to give Jones more carries because the same thing happened last year when Weiss wasn't there. They weren't using Charles enough and only gave him 25 carries for the first time in mid December. He was clearly the better back, and when he finally started getting carries he had a 7.0 yards per carry average with 658 yards, 13 receptions for 78 yards and 4 touchdowns. Yet he still starts this season second fiddle. He has more yards than Jones despite less carries, and has a way bigger yards per carry. This keeping players fresh for December crap is nonsense, all the premier backs are able to lead their teams through the season, and Charles can do the same but Haley obviously has a problem with him. If he keeps down this route, they'll lose one of the better backs in the league. Jones was never needed in Kansas, and they're using him in situations they have a better back for.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

Firstly the average wide receivers thing is a bit much. They have Lee Evans who is an elite wide receiver imo. I'd love to see him with the Patriots.

Elite my arse. Excellent wide reciever but no way is he anywhere near being elite.

This Steve Johnson seems to be pretty special too in fairness.

As for Johnson I like him but do you not think that the fact Fitzpatrick is performing is helping Johnson out? After all this is his 3rd year in the NFL with the Bills. So yes they are average WR and you will find a set of WR as good as this on most NFL teams.

And yes I was talking about last year not this year. I just think that QBs that make mistakes when pressured will continue to do that. Maybe he is one in a million that can change from a guy that made mistakes into a guy that doesn't. I've always thought he was very talented, I think comparing him to Aaron Rodgers shows that but until we see him consistently do this for a season I think its far too early to be calling him a very good QB.

His second season with the Bills and Last year the Bills were so indecisive at QB how could anyone prove themselves. You can't just fook a QB under centre and ask him to perform without showing some faith in his abilities and letting him find his groove.

Tbh I expect him to do that same thing again and start making mistakes. He has looked this good in previous seasons and then just fallen off. Lets be fair, if he was that good at Training Camp he would have been starting ahead of Trent Edwards.

This season and in Camp the Bills have worked with Fitzpatrick and he has gotten to know the WR a lot better. Also if you read through the reports for the Bills camp it was suggested many times the Fitzpatrick should have started this season without question.

I love the way you do this. Every time anyone talks QBs you instant write them off because they arent Tom Brady or Peyton Manning etc etc No one is saying Fitzy is Elite here but to not give him credit where credit is due and to give him a chance to find his feet as a No 1 QB is ridiculous. After all he has been a bench warmer since 2005.

For me Fitzy played well for his second full season last season well if you consider starting 8/10 played of the 16 regular season games and his rating was 69.7. Also in his first full season the year previous well starts 12/13 and a rating of 70 he wasn't too bad either.

The guy has a lot to learn and judging by his abilities seems to be learning as he goes and the fact he maintained decent numbers wirth a poor Bills team shows he has talent. Sure the pressure can get to him at times but if the Bills stick with him through this season and next and concentrate on fixing other areas of their team there is no reason why cant maintain his position as a number 1 QB and get wins under his belt.

neilster

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

I agree Fitzpatrick is clearly making the Difference in Buffalo right now. He is growing as a QB just like Orton.

One thing people need to remember sh1t organisation are just that sh1t. A great QB isnt going to fix the mess they are in either. You need at least some sort of overall package for any QB to get the job done. Remember its not a 1 man show.

The way Orton and Fitzpatrick are both playing shows why you need a full complement of players doing their job. They are both right now making two teams in stress look good at times. And neither can be blamed for anything that goes wrong when they are playing their part 100%.

I am with Eagleeye on this one and stand by my comments on Ryan Fitzpatrick...he is a 7th rd pick by the Rams and they cut him...he is a Harvard QB that tend to be smart QBs ...the Clausen/Matt Ryan type...good intangibles great Wonderlic score but the Rams evaluated him and didnt like him

They traded him for a 7th rd pick to the Bengals in 08 and with Carson Palmer around he signed with Buffalo...why did Edwards and Brohm both beat him out in training camp ....maybe he is a gamer who comes into his own on gameday and certainly he has improved things but if the Bill regress in week 8,9 & 20 ...is he just a streaky player ...a Garrard or a Matt Moore...id like the Bills to get something from this season cos i kinda like the old coot Gailey

There is no way at this early stage that people can use the "2 years ago in Chicago" comparison with orton and Fitzpatrick

Orton had an a very good solid 6-0 start last season and played solid in the second half even if Denver didnt ...he followed that with a hot training camp (denver fans comments) , a $10m contract extension and huge passing figures through 7..The Denver fans dont have any truck with the Tebow stuff so that pretty much proves it

Add in Dumervil & Ayers getting injured and Clady being banged up and you basically take away Denvers best 3 players

So the comparison would be far closer to a Matt Schaub ... a toothless pass rush bad secondary and Schaub has Andre Johnston

If people dont like Orton or remember the days back at the Bears but people wanted Schaub benched only a couple of years ago

for the record Fitzpatricks career rating of 72.8 wont get it done and a YPA of 5.8 wont either. He is 70.3rating across 2 years and 23 games .

Orton is passing 305 yrds per game , has a rating of 92.1, hes passed for 2140 yds and the league highest at 2340 yds, hes the fantasy no3

to put it in perspective he is for 2007-2010 his passer rating 73.9 , 79.6 , 86.8 and this year 92.1

he is better than Fitzpatrick the whole way through , just look at Kolb in his second game with Philly covering for Vick ...very mediocre

maybe its early for Fitzpatrick only 20 games compared to Orton's 60 ....maybe early in development and important positive steps forward ...only time will tell

eagle eye

Archimedes wrote: »

It's very likely that it's Haley's decision to give Jones more carries because the same thing happened last year when Weiss wasn't there. They weren't using Charles enough and only gave him 25 carries for the first time in mid December. He was clearly the better back, and when he finally started getting carries he had a 7.0 yards per carry average with 658 yards, 13 receptions for 78 yards and 4 touchdowns. Yet he still starts this season second fiddle. He has more yards than Jones despite less carries, and has a way bigger yards per carry. This keeping players fresh for December crap is nonsense, all the premier backs are able to lead their teams through the season, and Charles can do the same but Haley obviously has a problem with him. If he keeps down this route, they'll lose one of the better backs in the league. Jones was never needed in Kansas, and they're using him in situations they have a better back for.

But Weis has said its his decision. Why would you want to just let Charles have all the carries? It makes no sense, Jones proved Sunday that he is still at the top of his game or maybe even better than he has ever been.

This way they have two fresh backs all year and if one goes down then you still have a very confident and fresh running back instead of a guy who might have less confidence and would not be as used to the system.

And lets not forget that Charles came into this season having had surgery on his bad shoulder during the offseason. That would explain why he got less carries in the early part of the season but its been pretty much split down the middle between them since the bye week.
Also Jones is one of the best pass blocking backs in the league. Like you can have a passing down that becomes a running play but you are going to have the better blocking back in on that play.

Peyton Manning

Why would I want Charles to have the majority of the carries? Simple, because he gets more yards per carry than Jones.

There is no justification whatsoever for giving Jones more carries than Charles.

Simples.

tallaghtoutlaws

neilster wrote: »

maybe its early for Fitzpatrick only 20 games compared to Orton's 60 ....maybe early in development and important positive steps forward ...only time will tell

I agree and disagree with a lot of what you said but I wasn't comparing him with Orton as I know others were so fair enough. But this last paragraph you touched on what I beleive. At this point Fitzpatrick needs guidance and proper coaching to help him progress and it seems judging this season he is making those right steps.

But I will say it doesn't matter who drafts you or drop you. One mans thrash is another mans treasure. Drew Brees, Matt Schaub just two QBs, both I would consider better than Fitzy but bulk up my point that some teams offload players becuase they feel they wont do anything for them or are not the right player for their system. Doesn't mean they are bad players.

Chargers dumped Brees for Rivers and look at Brees now Sean Peyton was happy to use him in his system. Schaub another man a fringe player at Atlanta warming Vicks bench. Even when Schaub had monster games one against the Pats I was at when Vick was injured Atlanta saw it best to offload Schaub worked out quite well for the Texans. Just because a QB sits on a bench or doesn't come out of Camp as Starter doesn't make him any less the QB. Some coaches have different ideas than others.

davyjose

neilster wrote: »

I am with Eagleeye on this one and stand by my comments on Ryan Fitzpatrick...he is a 7th rd pick by the Rams and they cut him...he is a Harvard QB that tend to be smart QBs ...the Clausen/Matt Ryan type...good intangibles great Wonderlic score but the Rams evaluated him and didnt like him

They traded him for a 7th rd pick to the Bengals in 08 and with Carson Palmer around he signed with Buffalo...why did Edwards and Brohm both beat him out in training camp ....maybe he is a gamer who comes into his own on gameday and certainly he has improved things but if the Bill regress in week 8,9 & 20 ...is he just a streaky player ...a Garrard or a Matt Moore...id like the Bills to get something from this season cos i kinda like the old coot Gailey

There is no way at this early stage that people can use the "2 years ago in Chicago" comparison with orton and Fitzpatrick

Orton had an a very good solid 6-0 start last season and played solid in the second half even if Denver didnt ...he followed that with a hot training camp (denver fans comments) , a $10m contract extension and huge passing figures through 7..The Denver fans dont have any truck with the Tebow stuff so that pretty much proves it

Add in Dumervil & Ayers getting injured and Clady being banged up and you basically take away Denvers best 3 players

So the comparison would be far closer to a Matt Schaub ... a toothless pass rush bad secondary and Schaub has Andre Johnston

If people dont like Orton or remember the days back at the Bears but people wanted Schaub benched only a couple of years ago

for the record Fitzpatricks career rating of 72.8 wont get it done and a YPA of 5.8 wont either. He is 70.3rating across 2 years and 23 games .

Orton is passing 305 yrds per game , has a rating of 92.1, hes passed for 2140 yds and the league highest at 2340 yds, hes the fantasy no3

to put it in perspective he is for 2007-2010 his passer rating 73.9 , 79.6 , 86.8 and this year 92.1

he is better than Fitzpatrick the whole way through , just look at Kolb in his second game with Philly covering for Vick ...very mediocre

maybe its early for Fitzpatrick only 20 games compared to Orton's 60 ....maybe early in development and important positive steps forward ...only time will tell

What the hell are you talking about? Did you read any of Tallaght's points? fitz has a QB rating of 102 this season. He's had less than half the attempts of Orton so yardage is irrelevant.

Orton's career hasn't set the world alight until recently either (not a dig at the guy, just comparing), but in the last year or two he's been very solid. Fitz is getting his shot now and doing the same. I don't really see a huge difference.

Also, Ayers and Dumervil are defensive players. I'm confused as to how they would affect orton's passing ability. Your points are baffling - 7th round pick, Rams passed on him. What round did Brady go in? Ask Favre & Brees how they got on with the teams who drafted them. All irrelevant

eagle eye

Archimedes wrote: »

Why would I want Charles to have the majority of the carries? Simple, because he gets more yards per carry than Jones.

There is no justification whatsoever for giving Jones more carries than Charles.

Simples.

So now you are saying that you know more about the Kansas City Chiefs running backs than Charlie Weis?

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

So now you are saying that you know more about the Kansas City Chiefs running backs than Charlie Weis?

Wait do you work for the Chiefs that you can 100% that everything you have said reflects the decisions of the Chiefs coaching staff?

You cannot for one minute come out of debate mixing your own opinion with that of a coach you dont know in the Pros as your defense.

If you have solid evidence to back up what you are saying use that to backup your own opinion other than that asking Archie "Does he know the RB better than CW" is madness at best to be fair.

Archie is giving his own opinion on the situation but yours is confusing. Its almost reading as you know best because you know what Charlie Weiss is doing and thinking.

neilster

davyjose wrote: »

What the hell are you talking about? Did you read any of Tallaght's points? fitz has a QB rating of 102 this season. He's had less than half the attempts of Orton so yardage is irrelevant.

Orton's career hasn't set the world alight until recently either (not a dig at the guy, just comparing), but in the last year or two he's been very solid. Fitz is getting his shot now and doing the same. I don't really see a huge difference.

Also, Ayers and Dumervil are defensive players. I'm confused as to how they would affect orton's passing ability. Your points are baffling - 7th round pick, Rams passed on him. What round did Brady go in? Ask Favre & Brees how they got on with the teams who drafted them. All irrelevant

Listen i have nothing against Fitz hope he does well
but :

He was evaluated as a 7th rd pick in college - which means probably wont make it , montana and brady are the only SB winner 7th rd picks

He was traded by the Rams

He was let go by the Bengals effectively

He was the QB3 in training camp and you are saying he is the same as Orton after 4 games...thats 4 games productive in 30 odd

this is way too early ..if his rating is 102 by season end the Bills can build a team around him if not they will be using pick no 1 in a deep QB draft class and cutting him


Orton has been solid for three years at a 79/86/92 rating ....there is a world of difference , that 50 games....when the Bills put major dollars behind Fitzpatrick you will be right until then he has a way to go

as for Brees and Favre they were first round picks and u know that there were pretty special circumstances on those two situations ..namely Rivers and a Vicodin problem

And when talking about Ayers and Dumervil i was really comparing the texans and Broncos as i see Orton as a 2008 Schaub , it was the teams and the situations i was comparing

i dont like your tone davyjose ...see how many people are predicting an awesome 2011 for fitzpatrick , people are applauding good clutch play from the guy but also saying hope it continues ...i dont see where im disagreeing with that

Peyton Manning

eagle eye wrote: »

So now you are saying that you know more about the Kansas City Chiefs running backs than Charlie Weis?

Nope, I'm saying that a RB rotation that has been going on at the Chiefs long before Weiss arrived and is still going on is nothing to do with him, despite what he says. I don't care what he says, Todd Haley is the one giving carries to Jones.

Try all you like to justify giving an inferior back more carries than a freak like Charles. I'll call your BS as usual.

neilster

Archimedes wrote: »

Nope, I'm saying that a RB rotation that has been going on at the Chiefs long before Weiss arrived and is still going on is nothing to do with him, despite what he says. I don't care what he says, Todd Haley is the one giving carries to Jones.

Try all you like to justify giving an inferior back more carries than a freak like Charles. I'll call your BS as usual.

Arch are i right in saying that there has been a RB tandem since the days when L Johnson was going downhill/beating up women etc ...and that was what gave Charles his start

eagle eye

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Wait do you work for the Chiefs that you can 100% that everything you have said reflects the decisions of the Chiefs coaching staff?

You cannot for one minute come out of debate mixing your own opinion with that of a coach you dont know in the Pros as your defense.

If you have solid evidence to back up what you are saying use that to backup your own opinion other than that asking Archie "Does he know the RB better than CW" is madness at best to be fair.

Archie is giving his own opinion on the situation but yours is confusing. Its almost reading as you know best because you know what Charlie Weiss is doing and thinking.

What? You are telling what I can post now? gtfo

I've been following whats going on there since Charlie Weis and Romeo Crennel signed up because it interests me greatly how they do without Bill Belichick.

I'm saying what Weis has been saying and I agree with what he is doing and Thomas Jones performance on Sunday was fantastic and shows that he still has it, he had more ypc than Charles on Sunday. And Charles numbers have come down since he started getting more carries too.

Anybody that wants to google it can find it I'm sure.

eagle eye

Archimedes wrote: »

Nope, I'm saying that a RB rotation that has been going on at the Chiefs long before Weiss arrived and is still going on is nothing to do with him, despite what he says. I don't care what he says, Todd Haley is the one giving carries to Jones.

Try all you like to justify giving an inferior back more carries than a freak like Charles. I'll call your BS as usual.

Ok then here you go.

Q: Do you see Jamaal Charles progressing into a back that can carry the ball around 25 times a game and be that durable guy?

WEIS: “Either guy could do that. They’re both capable of doing it but once again, you have to think and you have to think along with the head coach, think about the big picture, about the length of the season. You have to be thinking about Week 7, Week 8, Week 12, Week 14 – you can’t just be thinking about one game and one game only but we’ve got them both as frontline players.”

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article-2/QA-with-Charlie-Weis---924/03bab6c1-336b-4823-bdf7-62b682f7616a

tallaghtoutlaws

neilster wrote: »

He was evaluated as a 7th rd pick in college - which means probably wont make it , montana and brady are the only SB winner 7th rd picks

Both when drafted were never considered SB winners either so whats your point? Are you trying to say that OH it will never happen again? Im lost here help me out. But no one is suggesting Fitzy will be elite so why mention Elite Superbowl winners?

He was traded by the Rams

So what the Rams had Bolger and Ferrotte and felt they didn't need Fitzy as Bolger was the big thing back then for them.

He was let go by the Bengals effectively

Again so what? Carson Palmer was Always going to get his spot back. And JT O'Sullivan was signed.

He was the QB3 in training camp and you are saying he is the same as Orton after 4 games...thats 4 games productive in 30 odd

A lot of people criticised the Bills for this. And again you are missing the point to the Orton thing. The growth aspect is what I personally was going for I was comparing him to Orton but merely on how like Orton he is doing what is asked of him in a situation where he will be blamed if anything goes wrong.

this is way too early ..if his rating is 102 by season end the Bills can build a team around him if not they will be using pick no 1 in a deep QB draft class and cutting him

But aren't you just speculating just like us?

Orton has been solid for three years at a 79/86/92 rating ....there is a world of difference , that 50 games....when the Bills put major dollars behind Fitzpatrick you will be right until then he has a way to go

I don't know why you keep going back to Orton on every point.

as for Brees and Favre they were first round picks and u know that there were pretty special circumstances on those two situations ..namely Rivers and a Vicodin problem

Shows you failed to read my point on Brees. As for Favre he developed the Vicodim problem while with Green Bay. There was never any reports of him taking it during his Atlanta days. Glanville the head coach of Atlanta publically said he didn't agree with Drafting Favre that year and actually said it would take a plane wreck for him to put Favre into a game.

i dont like your tone davyjose ...see how many people are predicting an awesome 2011 for fitzpatrick , people are applauding good clutch play from the guy but also saying hope it continues ...i dont see where im disagreeing with that

Where is anyone predicting Fitzy will have an aweosme 2011? And you don't like his tone?

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

What? You are telling what I can post now? gtfo

Yes that is exactly what I am doing :rolleyes: I was asking you a question.

I've been following whats going on there since Charlie Weis and Romeo Crennel signed up because it interests me greatly how they do without Bill Belichick.

So have I as have many others but i wouldn't say I know what Weis is thinking and why Weis picked someone.

I'm saying what Weis has been saying and I agree with what he is doing and Thomas Jones performance on Sunday was fantastic and shows that he still has it, he had more ypc than Charles on Sunday. And Charles numbers have come down since he started getting more carries too.

And I see you went and used google yourself. And to be fair of course a coach when quoted on the Chiefs website is going to be diplomatic like that. No coach in their right mind no matter the sport would be anything less than diplomatic to both players.

My point was that asking Archie was he the Coach of the chief was mad because you aren't either. As you are in no more the position to say 100% you are right in this situation than he is.

Peyton Manning

eagle eye wrote: »

Ok then here you go.


http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article-2/QA-with-Charlie-Weis---924/03bab6c1-336b-4823-bdf7-62b682f7616a

Like I said, I don't care what Weiss says, there's no justifying giving an inferior back more carries than a freak like Charles.

Keep them fresh for December? Please, these guys are professional athletes with the best conditioning services in the world available to them through coaches, facilities and equipment. It's BS. Haley clearly has a problem with Charles and is unwilling to put it aside. Deal with it.

eagle eye

Archimedes wrote: »

Like I said, I don't care what Weiss says, there's no justifying giving an inferior back more carries than a freak like Charles.

Keep them fresh for December? Please, these guys are professional athletes with the best conditioning services in the world available to them through coaches, facilities and equipment. It's BS. Haley clearly has a problem with Charles and is unwilling to put it aside. Deal with it.

Right so basically you are saying you don't believe Weis. You believe something you have in your own mind that Haley has a problem with Charles. And on top of that you are saying that Jones is an inferior back.

How did you come to these conclusions?

Are you just using stats to decide that Charles is better than Jones?

Let me remind of a saying from the best coach in the league. 'Stats are for losers, the final score is for winners' - Bill Belichick.

Actually that should be in my sig.:)

Peyton Manning

eagle eye wrote: »

Right so basically you are saying you don't believe Weis. You believe something you have in your own mind that Haley has a problem with Charles. And on top of that you are saying that Jones is an inferior back.

How did you come to these conclusions?

Quite simple really my dear. You say that it's Weis' decision to split the carries between them because of some grand plan he has about keeping his backs fresh. It's not. The carries were also being split last year, before Weis even came to Kansas, and many were lambasting Haley for it back then too. Like I said, Charles only got 25 touches for the first time on December 13th and went on to dominate, like he had been with his limited touches before it - exacty the same as he is doing this year. He's far superior.

Are you just using stats to decide that Charles is better than Jones?

Let me remind of a saying from the best coach in the league. 'Stats are for losers, the final score is for winners' - Bill Belichick.

Actually that should be in my sig.:)

Yes I am. 6 yards per carry on less carries than Jones, who has 4.7 on more carries. If stats are for losers, why were you throwing them around in the Packers discussion we had last week?

Full of shít, as usual. You think you'd have learned something in your 80 years following this sport.

Black Swan

Blue throws flag! Hey lads! I admire your enthusiasm for the game, but are we starting to get a bit personal on this thread? Let's get back to the game.

eagle eye

Archimedes wrote: »

<snip> You say that it's Weis' decision to split the carries between them because of some grand plan he has about keeping his backs fresh. It's not. The carries were also being split last year, before Weis even came to Kansas, and many were lambasting Haley for it too. Like I said, Charles only got 25 touches for the first time on December 13th and went on to dominate, like he had been with his limited touches before it - exacty the same as he is doing this year. He's far superior.

<snip> They were not splitting carries at any stage last year. Jamaal Charles was only a backup to LJ until he got suspended and then cut. Charles then took over as the lead back.

Archimedes wrote: »

Yes I am. 6 yards per carry on less carries than Jones, who has 4.7 on more carries. If stats are for losers, why were you throwing them around in the Packers discussion we had last week?

<snip>

Individual stats are one thing, team stats are entirely different. After all thats what it is a team game, not an individual game.

Peyton Manning

eagle eye wrote: »

<snip> They were not splitting carries at any stage last year. Jamaal Charles was only a backup to LJ until he got suspended and then cut. Charles then took over as the lead back.

<snip> I said he dominated with limited touches.

Larry Johnson had a paltry 2.9 yards per carry up to Week 7 when he got cut. Jamal Charles had 5.0 yards per carry in the same time frame on much limited carries, and that's even including missing a gameweek due to injury. Charles had a better yards per carry than Johnson in 5 of the 6 games they both played in. He was clearly the better back, but it took Larry Johnson fúcking up with the suspension for Haley to cut him. It even took him a further 2 weeks to stop giving carries to Kolby Smith, still limiting Charles. When he finally did start giving Charles the carries he should have been getting from the start of the year - with 4 games left, he had 7 yards per carry and over 658 yards plus near 80 receiving yards for 4 touchdowns.

And yet STILL after all that, Charles is not the premier back. That's why Haley is an idiot. If your insisting that its Weis' decision, then he's an idiot. I dont care what you've done in the game, giving Jones more carries than Charles is plain retarded.

Individual stats are one thing, team stats are entirely different. After all thats what it is a team game, not an individual game.

How do team stats have anything to do with how good a RB1 vs RB2 discussion is?
<snip>

Black Swan

I'm temporarily locking this thread until the players cool off. If this doesn't work, then there will be penalties on the field.

Edit: Unlocked.

davyjose

neilster wrote: »

Listen i have nothing against Fitz hope he does well
but :

He was evaluated as a 7th rd pick in college - which means probably wont make it , montana and brady are the only SB winner 7th rd picks

He was traded by the Rams

He was let go by the Bengals effectively

He was the QB3 in training camp and you are saying he is the same as Orton after 4 games...thats 4 games productive in 30 odd

this is way too early ..if his rating is 102 by season end the Bills can build a team around him if not they will be using pick no 1 in a deep QB draft class and cutting him


Orton has been solid for three years at a 79/86/92 rating ....there is a world of difference , that 50 games....when the Bills put major dollars behind Fitzpatrick you will be right until then he has a way to go

as for Brees and Favre they were first round picks and u know that there were pretty special circumstances on those two situations ..namely Rivers and a Vicodin problem

And when talking about Ayers and Dumervil i was really comparing the texans and Broncos as i see Orton as a 2008 Schaub , it was the teams and the situations i was comparing

i dont like your tone davyjose ...see how many people are predicting an awesome 2011 for fitzpatrick , people are applauding good clutch play from the guy but also saying hope it continues ...i dont see where im disagreeing with that

Tallaght pretty much covered everything I was gonna say. As for not liking my tone, report the post/stick me on your ignore list. If you're going to argue a point on here, expect an argument back. I'm not trying to have a go, but look above, the tone on here often gets heated (without descending into chaos), that IMO is what makes this such a good forum.

My point about Fitzy is simple - why replace one of your functioning players, when there are so many more gaps in your team? As for the bit in bold - you started off calling him close to elite, now he's just solid??? Fitzy is solid too. Hence my point.

frostie500

I'm probably going back over old ground here but I'm just after reading through the last day of posts and cant really understand how anyone cant be impressed with the job Fitzpatrick is doing. The Bills are a terrible team yet the play of Fitzpatrick has been of a very high level. Through four starts he has 11 TD and only 4 INTS he is keeping possension of the ball and moving downfield, his 8 yard average per attempt attests to this.

He may not be a Brady, Manning etc but thats because at any one time there can only be a handful of elite players, right now he is a developing QB and for a franchise that has not had decent production at QB since 2000 with Doug Flutie and a top level player since Jim Kelly its tough to see why there is any doubt about his future to be honest.

I know it can be tough to realise but players develop with time! Yes he was a 7th rounder but to be honest the round you get drafted in counts for nothing except for signing bonus. When you enter the league you have to perform from that day onwards. He is developing and showing great progress, yes it might be a flash in the pan but there is no way that the Bills are going to be going any other direction at QB unless they are offered a trade for a top level QB similar to the one the Bears got with Cutler(please dont comment on Cutler being top level that was the view of the Bears at the time of the trade!)

Also it is worth remembering that Fitzpatrick played for Harvard. As a result the level of play he experienced in college was incredibly different to the NFL. He was playing against the likes of(in 2004) Holy Cross, Brown, Lafayette, Cornell, North Eastern, Princeton, Dartmouth, Columbia, Pennsylvania and Yale-in other words its not quite the SEC he was playing in! So unlike players in that league he had a massive jump to make when he came to the NFL so is it really surprising he bounced around a few teams? In some ways he was lucky because he clearly learned from two QBs that were elite at one point or another(Bulger and Palmer)